Adjusting your pH when growing in soil damaging your plants!

[KeepItSimple]

hi people

ive been reading through alot of threads posted by soil growers asking for diagnoses on there nutrient deficencys not that i am claiming to be an expert as we learn something new everyday i take a look anyway to see if i can be of any use

something what i have noticed alot of new soil growers doing is adjusting the PH of there nutrient solution before feeding there plants which is potentially doing your plants more harm then good because it could be causing nutrient lockout which shows up on your plants as a nutrient deficency then they over feed and add more nutes

"You shouldn’t worry too much about your water pH and we don’t recommend pH adjustment of water for soil/compost plants. Many soil growers still make the mistake of adjusting their pH when growing in soil but there really is no need – you could even be damaging your plant and its potential yield. The nutrient availability pH range is much wider in this organic environment than in hydroponics and the introduction of acidic pH adjusting liquids into these environments is neither necessary or desirable". that is a quote ive taken from a reputable hydroponic store check out there blog for more tips on soil growing i posted this quote and link for people who may still be sceptical if this is true or not to start u on ur new research to confirm this info
[Grow in Soil] Get Your Hands Dirty - Blog | GroWell Hydroponics


ive done alot of soil grows and never adjusted my nutrient ph with great results i will start a journal soon for people to view first hand i have always bought a soil that has a stable PH 6.5 is ideal for soil which should be stated on the soil bag and if it is a good quality soil it should stay stable for a crop cycle if not people add lime to adjust the ph of there soil so its the PH of the actual soil you want to check not ur feeding solution but i have never had to check my soil ph with a probe but if really want to u can

from this thread i am just trying to stress to new soil growers look into the soil your buying and leave the hydroponic ph up/down to one side

 

[kiwibloke]

Re: Adjusting your PH when growing in soil Damaging your plants!!!!

Agree 100% on the ph of soil . . it's usually ok as it comes, even if u just dig up a hunk outa ya back yard. . .It's dirt, dope is a weed. . .it'll grow. stick half an inch / 10mm of pea gravel in the bottom of ya container, fill with dirt and you're away. No need for too much in the way of fancy (read fucken expensive) addins, and Roberts your mothers brother !!

 

[jfred]

Re: Adjusting your PH when growing in soil Damaging your plants!!!!

...and Roberts your mothers brother !!

That's funny, whatever it means!

Please allow me to take issue with you on the "it's dirt...it'll grow" notion.

That's true, of course, as far as it goes, but (with all respect) it begs the question: Do you just want your plants to "grow"?

Unless you're scattering seed in the field behind your house (although I'd suggest the one behind MY house instead!) one reason to grow one's own is to have the opportunity to maximize the genetic potential of good seed.

And unless you're scattering seeds, it's going to cost a few bucks to bring a plant from seed to harvest, and a good investment in time, too. There are ways to save money but, especially for a small-scale personal-use grower like me, it just doesn't cost that much for a couple bags.

If you want your plants to be all they can give you, growing medium is too consequential to cut corners on.

Just my opinion, of course.

 

[KeepItSimple]

Re: Adjusting your PH when growing in soil Damaging your plants!!!!

If you want your plants to be all they can give you, growing medium is too consequential to cut corners on.

Just my opinion, of course.[/QUOTE]

i do have to agree with jfred cutting corners with ur soil will most likely cause u more problems further down the line with poor growth and insects although if u have no money and never grown before u may fancy stickin an unknown bagseed into a pot of garden soil just to see what happens but if u have money to invest please dont cut back with soil

 

[nell]

I agree that you don't need to adjust pH of plain water since it is (or should be!) unbuffered but I know when I add nutes (using FF primarily) the pH goes down to about 4.5 which is pretty acidic. My first grow I was using crappy ph paper to check and I am sure I did not adjust pH of nutes above about 5 or 5.5. Second grow I got a pH meter and adjusted nutes up to about 6.5 or so and my plants did a lot better. Could just be more experience on my part in general but I think even in soil the pH of nute solutions should be adjusted at least up to 6....

 

[KeepItSimple]

I agree that you don't need to adjust pH of plain water since it is (or should be!) unbuffered but I know when I add nutes (using FF primarily) the pH goes down to about 4.5 which is pretty acidic. My first grow I was using crappy ph paper to check and I am sure I did not adjust pH of nutes above about 5 or 5.5. Second grow I got a pH meter and adjusted nutes up to about 6.5 or so and my plants did a lot better. Could just be more experience on my part in general but I think even in soil the pH of nute solutions should be adjusted at least up to 6....

when growing in hydrponics the roots are directly exposed to the nutrient solution so the actual solution itself that u mix up has to be in the ideal range 5.8 otherwise certain elemets in the solution become unavailable to the roots thats why ph up/down are available but it will say on the bottle HYDROPONIC ph up/down look around your hydro shop for a bottle of SOIL ph up/down it wont be found people use lime etc to adjust and stablize there soil but soil acts as a natural ph buffer so now what you want is the soil itself to be in the ideal range which is 6.5 when u buy soil it should state on the bag what ph it is, after time ur soil ph can drop or rise thats y people check there soil with soil probes or check there run off with a ph meter by adding hydroponic ph up or down to ur nutrient solution after time will affect the ph of ur soil and will cause u nutrient lockout look into the soil ur using and check what ph it is do the run off test let ur plants dry then feed plain water and check the last few drops of run off with a meter but by adding hydroponic ph up to ur solution ur simply doing nuthin but adding chemicals that are not needed, will kill beneficial's in the soil and over time will effect ur soil ph

 

[YardDog35]

when growing in hydrponics the roots are directly exposed to the nutrient solution so the actual solution itself that u mix up has to be in the ideal range 5.8 otherwise certain elemets in the solution become unavailable to the roots thats why ph up/down are available but it will say on the bottle HYDROPONIC ph up/down look around your hydro shop for a bottle of SOIL ph up/down it wont be found people use lime etc to adjust and stablize there soil but soil acts as a natural ph buffer so now what you want is the soil itself to be in the ideal range which is 6.5 when u buy soil it should state on the bag what ph it is, after time ur soil ph can drop or rise thats y people check there soil with soil probes or check there run off with a ph meter by adding hydroponic ph up or down to ur nutrient solution after time will affect the ph of ur soil and will cause u nutrient lockout look into the soil ur using and check what ph it is do the run off test let ur plants dry then feed plain water and check the last few drops of run off with a meter but by adding hydroponic ph up to ur solution ur simply doing nuthin but adding chemicals that are not needed, will kill beneficial's in the soil and over time will effect ur soil ph

PH up and down are not just for hydroponics, and no my bottles don't say Hydroponic PH up or down. Let's not confuse people here.

PH during veg should be 5-7, which most quality soils will maintain without adjusting water PH. During flower, PH should be 6-7, this is where I believe PH should be checked and possibly adjusted in soil.
Like nell stated, PH was dropping to 4.5 after adding nutes, which will happen if your water has a lower PH to begin with. That would be way too acidic for a flowering plant.

I agree we should all use a quality medium when growing. There's a reason for the term 'dirt weed' lol. Cannabis is and annual btw, not a weed

 

[Truth Seeker]

Re: Adjusting your PH when growing in soil Damaging your plants!!!!

That's true, of course, as far as it goes, but (with all respect) it begs the question: Do you just want your plants to "grow"?

If you want your plants to be all they can give you, growing medium is too consequential to cut corners on.

Just my opinion, of course.

I agree with your concept here, but about the pH, the soil as well, but we here to talk about the pH...

when growing in hydrponics the roots are directly exposed to the nutrient solution so the actual solution itself that u mix up has to be in the ideal range 5.8 otherwise certain elemets in the solution become unavailable to the roots thats why ph up/down are available but it will say on the bottle HYDROPONIC ph up/down look around your hydro shop for a bottle of SOIL ph up/down it wont be found people use lime etc to adjust and stablize there soil but soil acts as a natural ph buffer so now what you want is the soil itself to be in the ideal range which is 6.5 when u buy soil it should state on the bag what ph it is, after time ur soil ph can drop or rise thats y people check there soil with soil probes or check there run off with a ph meter by adding hydroponic ph up or down to ur nutrient solution after time will affect the ph of ur soil and will cause u nutrient lockout look into the soil ur using and check what ph it is do the run off test let ur plants dry then feed plain water and check the last few drops of run off with a meter but by adding hydroponic ph up to ur solution ur simply doing nuthin but adding chemicals that are not needed, will kill beneficial's in the soil and over time will effect ur soil ph

ok... Again, I agree with your concept, but... you are only supposed to add very very very little amounts to a lot of nutrient solution... i'll explain more in my comment...

PH up and down are not just for hydroponics, and no my bottles don't say Hydroponic PH up or down. Let's not confuse people here.

PH during veg should be 5-7, which most quality soils will maintain without adjusting water PH. During flower, PH should be 6-7, this is where I believe PH should be checked and possibly adjusted in soil.
Like nell stated, PH was dropping to 4.5 after adding nutes, which will happen if your water has a lower PH to begin with. That would be way too acidic for a flowering plant.

I agree we should all use a quality medium when growing. There's a reason for the term 'dirt weed' lol. Cannabis is and annual btw, not a weed

I almost fully agree with you YD!!! except on the ranges of pH allowance, but that is me...


OK!!! time for my opinion!!!

IMO:​

I think, you should never adjust your water pH, never!!! unless your upkeeping your swimming pool!!! but thats a whole different pot of beans right there!!!
however, once you have altered the water, by adding in your nutrient solution, and it has become to a level of nutrient lockout to the plant, then your not going to be feeding the plant, due to it not getting the proper nutrients, cus the nutrients were already deposited locked out!!!

If you notice, and I have cus I have done this already, when you mix up nutes, (mine usually ends up at 5.5) the pH drops, for me, im in soil, so if I was to feed my babies a 5.5 solution, what did I already lockout???

So I am already losing some Nitrogen
get no Phosphorous, well you see where I'm going... right???

now I adjust my pH back to 6.5 and for me it's only 2 drops to the gallon, anyways, once I start to pour it in, I have my soil probe already reading the pH in the soil, it reads a 6.8, once the nutrient solution goes through, it drops the pH in the soil, because it is eating!!! that's why they say you should check your runoff pH as well!!!

I hope this makes sense!!!

If I am wrong, I am going to let my CO get over here and make a comment as well!!! so be patient he's a busy man!!!

 

[KeepItSimple]

thanks for the input aston

ive messaged bpn also i think thats who ur refering to? lol from the info ive found is that wen feeding in soil the ph is of a much wider range an that the soil acts as an automatic ph buffer and that by adding ph adjustment solutions it can kill beneficals that are in ur soil

its great to get so many differ opinions cnt wait to see wot bpn thinks

 

[Be Irie]

Ok, lets clear something up here quickly... If you are growing ORGANICALLY, then you do not have to PH your solutions/feedings. If you are growing with Chems/synthetics then you have to PH your solutions/feedings unless they are PH buffered....

 

[Truth Seeker]

Ok, lets clear something up here quickly... If you are growing ORGANICALLY, then you do not have to PH your solutions/feedings. If you are growing with Chems/synthetics then you have to PH your solutions/feedings unless they are PH buffered....

Yes very correct BI!!! thank you!! I also forgot to throw that in!!!

 

[kiwibloke]

Re: Adjusting your PH when growing in soil Damaging your plants!!!!

That's funny, whatever it means!

what i wrote is the familially (is that a word?) correct version of "Bobs your uncle" - when it's added to the end of a statement it means you're all done, ready to go. Dont know if you use it in the UPSA

I think you may have misinterpreted what i said too.

. . . it's usually ok as it comes, even if u just dig up a hunk . . . my mate has grown like that when it was required and he also makes up a soil mix . . but again, he doesn't use expensive soil additatives, worm castings, etc. - just makes up a brew with some garden soil, some home made compost complete with actual live worms, some dried horse or chicken shit in the mix. He does 6 plants under a 1000w HPS, gets about 18 - 20 oz's. During the vegie stage they get hit with an off-the-shelf high N fertiliser once. In flowering he uses an orchid fert 4-11-14 once about 3 weeks into flowering. I'll see if he'll take some photos of the next crop and post em here. He doesn't keep photo's, records, nothing that would give the filth any evidence of previous grows. . .and also hence the 6 pots/plants max. Over here the courts go a lot easier on ya if it's deemed for personal use . . . and if the grow looks like an amateur hour affair. Bottles of fancy fretilizers, hydroponics, light movers, extractor fans, photos/evidence of an earlier grow, ph test equipment, faancy timers, etc. all allow the filth to scream "he's a professional you Honour" if by some chance you end up busted!!

What i'm saying is it can be kept simple and still yield good results. I doubt spending literaly hundreds of dollars on fancy additives gives that amount of $$ back in extra weight. You just have to read through various threads on 420 to see how many guys go out, buy all the "good/must have" shit and end up fucking everything up with over fertilising, PH up the wazoo, etc. whereas if they'd taken it easy, did it simply, they woulda been much better off, woulda got a result, not to mentioned less stressed

right thats my $4.29's worth. . . . Thats 2 cents with inflation !!

Vote Ron Paul for compassioate Drug policy

 

[smurfette]

KeepitSimple... I'm in week 2 of vegetation, my girls are approx 1/2ft high, very green (mostly), lots of new growth, bushing out, leaves getting bigger... & I just dropped the yo-yo's yesterday so that the lights are about 1.5ft above the tallest plant... the main thing that I've noticed over the last few days is that I have some lime green/yellowing around the tips & outer edges of some of the leaves, which looks like a Magnesium deficiency to me... soil PH 7.0 - 7.3, they're receiving a watering / feed with nutes once a week... yesterday I got some Epsom salts & gave them a foliar spray after lights off (2 small tsp / 0.5 litre)... wondering whether to give them an Epsom foliar spray every evening for 3-4 days then re-assess, or whether to foliar spray with Epsom every other day? The other thing I've got going on is the beginning of a spider mite problem... which I've just bought pure Neem oil & a plant based gentle horticultural liquid soap to mix with water & perhaps some chilli powder as a treatment... but I'm worried about over loading the leaves with too many treatments all at the same time... though I do need to get a handle on both. I'm a first time grower & not sure how how to proceed... any advice greatly received & much appreciated. Have just popped in the grow room with my green light to take some pics... not sure how to upload so will have to leave this until tomorrow eve as I need sleep... I'm up at 6.00am!!! Make sweet dreams

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

Here is my take on pH:

In soil, the pH needs to stay around 6.5 for best results.
If you are growing 100% organically, having the pH at 6.5 to 6.8 is VERY VERY important because not only are the necessary nutrients all available to your plants at that pH in soil, but microbial activity that is necessary for organic matter breakdown needs to be close to 7. A truly organic soil using only 100% organic soil amendments will always drift towards 7 or just below it because this is where the soil microbes like it best and if your soil is biologically healthy, then it will adjust itself due to the microbial activity. that is the pH they like and they will help to change and regulate it.

If you are using chemical nutrients such as my 3 part in soil, or fox farms for that matter, then your nutrient solution will most likely be acidic. When mixing my 3 part at 10 ml/gallon of Grow, BLOOM, Micro, the pH will roughly be about 5.5 depending on your water profile. The soil that I have used always has a pH of about 7.2 and when I feed, the pH drops to about 6.5 which is what I want so I don't use any pH UP.

Now, If you are feeding with chemical nutrients and they are causing your soil pH to drop too far from 6.5 for whatever reason (maybe your soil has a starting pH of 6.5 and adding a nutrient solution that is 5.5 causes it to drop to 6.0), then I would use pH up or Down to adjust your nutrient solution so that your soil environment will be at 6.5. IN true 100% organics this is rarely necessarry UNLESS, your soil has too much lime in it for example or your water is extremely hard for whatever reason has a high pH and is causing your pH of the soil to rise out of the acceptable range.

I know a very large grower in Oregon who's water out of the tap was 8.5. Her soil started at about a pH of 7.5 and she never adjusted the pH of her nute solution. After some time, the pH of her soil was close to 8.0 and she was having some serious micronutrient lockout problems. Getting a RO filter, a good flush, and adjusting the pH of her nutrient solution fixed all of her problems.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that you need to keep your soil pH at 6.5. If what you are feeding your plants is causing it to move too far from that number, then buffer your nutrients so that your soil will stay at 6.5

If you are growing organically, pH adjustment is rarely a problem due to microbial activity.

If your soil is shitty and started out with a pH of 8.0 for example, then you will most likely have issues of pH drift throughout your entire grow since there is something in your soil causing the pH to want to drift up. Same goes for soil that starts out with a pH that is too low. ESPECIALLY if you are using chemical nutrients. Who cares about microbial activity when using chemicals since the nutes are already all immediately available to the plants, right?

From a nutrient manufacturer's perspective, I also have to drop the pH of my nutrients to 4.0 or below to make them stable and to keep crap from growing in them. Even most 100% organic products have a very low ph to begin with. Take Alaska Fish Fertilizer. The only way that it is able to keep on store shelves is for the manufacturers to drop the pH below 4.0 which kills the enzymes used to digest the fish. They use phosphoric acid to drop the pH. If they did not do this, the bottles would explode on the shelves. Some products, even some organics, have a starting pH of between 2-4 and sometimes these need pH adjustment before feeding...sometimes.

Main thing is to keep the pH of SOIL at 6.5 and DO NOT let it drift too far from that value no matter what.

My 2 cents....hope this helps

 

[Icemud]

I agree with the advice here saying, do NOT PH adjust your organic feedings....HOWEVER.... to add to this...you should monitor them and bubble them with air until the PH range comes up to a desirable level. (around 6.5)

For example...when I mix up my earthjuice/nutrient/additive feedings the PH right after mixing usually is right around the 4.0PH mark which If I just directly added this to my organic soil...I would #1 burn the shiz out of my roots, and #2 destroy many of the microlife that also depend's on a somewhat stable PH range. So to correct this and raise the PH.... I bubble my mixes for 24-36 hours depending on how fast the mix PH raises upwards.

I usually feel it is safe to feed >5.9PH but have tried feeding directly at 4PH as well as waiting until the mix reaches the goal of 6.5PH. Feeding at a 4PH seems to slow down growth for a day or 2 while feeding at the 6.5PH range seems to induce no "lag" period. I don't know how many others have experienced this, but so far this seems to have an effect.

I also have learned that adding a pure water feeding every 3rd to 4th week also helps in flushing the salts that build up(organics build up salts too) as well as help keep a monitor on the run-off and soil PH...Not talking about a full flush, just watering with pure water with some run off

 

[KeepItSimple]

thanks BPN and icemud for input

so i stand corrected that wen feeding with chemical fertilizers in soil it is ok to adjust ur nutrient solution before feeding if nessecary (thanks bpn for the guidance) but a good point that i was making stands true is that to many new soil gardeners could be adjusting to the rong ph or even adjusting when theres no need to because they dont check there run off or soil for the ph of the actual soil in the beginning to know wot ph ur aiming for to hit the right ph they just adjust there solution to 6.5 and think there done wen they need to be checking wot the ph of there actual soil is first to know wot ph of nutrient ur aiming for to balance things out

 

[Blue Planet Nutrients]

You are correct. Organics must be broken down into the same chemical form as a synthetic before a plant can take it up so salt can accumulate. There is no differwnce in a nitrate molecule supplied by a synthetic fertilizer compared to a nitrate molecule supplied by an organic fertilizer. The nitrate molecule in an organic fertilizer is just part of a protein and has to be broken down before it can be taken up.that is another topic of conversation. EJ has to drop the ph with an acid to keep on store shelves as well. I have to drop the ph of my organics as well.

Back to pH. My point is that the pH of soil has to stay at 6.5 and not drift much. If you mixed an organic soil and didn't feed anything extra and relied totally on the soil amendments to provide all nutrition, tjen the microbes in a healthy soil will keep the pH in the correct range.

If your soil ph is way off due to a bad soil mix or whatever reason, adjusting the ph of the nutes is helpful to keep the ph in the correct range.....that is if using a chemical fert.

 

[Icemud]

Mad props to Blue Planet Nutrients!!!! You rock!! I love how you share your information and education with us!!! I definitely will be purchasing some BPN in the future!!

 

[MitchConnor]

My recipe for a stable PH-
FFOF 6.5
Dolomite lime keeps ph around 7
Tap water 6.7

I don't seem to have any problems with PH. I grow organically so the microorganisms in my dirt adjust the PH based on the plants needs. PH up and down kill the organisms therefore making it a hassle to get right.

 

[Beeb Beebman]

This has been an incredibly informative thread for a first time soil grower. Sadly prior to reading this, I gave my several week old clones their first WEAK 1/2ml /gal dose of Roots Organics buddha grow nutrient solution. I'm growing in FF OS soil and using RO water. I foolishly ph corrected my solution to 6.5. So, I'm under the impression that I can just mix my nutes and then feed? Did I cause my little clones some harm? Prior to this they were looking great. I will have pics soon in my journal. Thanks to all who contributed in this thread!!!!!