A New Grower's Guide - Scrog - Soil - HPS - Air Pots - White Rhino

[hodder356]

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That's a good plant right there! Nice pictures too.

Looking good! They are slowly starting to bulk up now

your plants are looking good.

She's coming along nicely. I have no experience with White Rhino but I really like the look of this plant.

Thanks for the great support fellas! Yes it is hard to believe it is one plant with all those tops. I still can't wait for a new scrog, I know I can get more tops out of my 2x2 screen. Also today I ordered some Ona oder gel because my tent is becoming a little fragrant to say the least lol. So happy growing everyone and stay cool!

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[Spimp]

Whats your opinion of Autos and SCRoG? My main concern is the defloiation often employed in this technique and the quick turnaround of Auto's may not be ideal for yield? But this is all speculation from the reading Ive done. I guess another flaw is the inability to control vegging/flowering. Id like to hear your thoughts sir...

 

[hodder356]

well sir I pretty much know nothing about Autos. But i'm thinking that as long as you had a long enough vegetative period, a scrog would work with an Auto. As for defoliation, I feel like it would be fine on an auto, but i just don't know. I guess I need to read some of the sweet auto journals out there, autos just perplex me so much lol. I wonder if Autos would be more or less stressed by defoliation due to their special genetic make-ups? Thanks brother!, now i'm off to read all I can on Autos lol. Happy growing man!

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[CrimsonBlitz]

Hi Hodder, the journal was an excellent read. Short sweet and to the point btw your photography is next level, show me your ways lol. Your plants look really happy and healthy. I'd like to thank you, its your journal that put me over the edge to partially defoliate my plants and I really feel its gonna help. I hope your plants start filling out and give you a ton of great bud.
How are you liking the air pots btw? I read up on them a little and was going to purchase either a smart pot or air pot. I'll be following your grow great job hodder.

 

[Spimp]

well sir I pretty much know nothing about Autos. But i'm thinking that as long as you had a long enough vegetative period, a scrog would work with an Auto. As for defoliation, I feel like it would be fine on an auto, but i just don't know. I guess I need to read some of the sweet auto journals out there, autos just perplex me so much lol. I wonder if Autos would be more or less stressed by defoliation due to their special genetic make-ups? Thanks brother!, now i'm off to read all I can on Autos lol. Happy growing man!

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From the information I have read, There is no true vegatation for autos. They pop when they feel like it... So you cant even control it by 12/12 lighting. The breeder recomends running them 20/4 from seed, but im running closer to 16/8. This is what has left me scratching my head

 

[hodder356]

Hi Hodder, the journal was an excellent read. Short sweet and to the point btw your photography is next level, show me your ways lol. Your plants look really happy and healthy. I'd like to thank you, its your journal that put me over the edge to partially defoliate my plants and I really feel its gonna help. I hope your plants start filling out and give you a ton of great bud.
How are you liking the air pots btw? I read up on them a little and was going to purchase either a smart pot or air pot. I'll be following your grow great job hodder.

Why thank you sir, I think I'm blushing lol. I use a relatively cheap coolpix camera with the macro setting. Lately I've been using buckets at a tripod lol, need to get a real one. As for the Air-Pots....they rule! I have a tomato plant in one out back that is 5' tall with like 100 cherry tomatoes on it lol! I might post a pic of it I'm so proud lol. I feel like as long as I grow in soil, I'll be using Air-pots! happy growing bro!

From the information I have read, There is no true vegatation for autos. They pop when they feel like it... So you cant even control it by 12/12 lighting. The breeder recomends running them 20/4 from seed, but im running closer to 16/8. This is what has left me scratching my head

Exactly, Im just lost when it comes to Auto's, maybe they are best to let grow naturally. Either way humanity would be no where without a little experimentation lol! Happy growing mate! see ya soon everybody for an update next week!

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[hodder356]

Hey everybody! So we're still battling some high temps in my neck of the woods. Today I have just 1 light on the scrog for the few hottest hours of the afternoon then its back to all 300 watts for the rest of the lights on cycle. So I'm thinking I'll do a little update tomorrow after I get new tires for my car. So happy growing everybody, stay cool!

 

[donpaul.p]

looking great,

now for auto info, ive been running tests with autos for a while,
do not use autos for a scrog its totally pointless, dont defol an auto either, any growth slow down will result in lower yield as it dont have time to recover before it flowers,

now ive been growing kc45 autos for a while, all the growers say grow them on 24-0 or 20-4, i even had top growers telling me they wont flower under 24-0, their wrong they do and they flower a lot earlier under 24-0, trust me i know ive grown a few,

i always grew autos during my veg schedule, so 20-4 or 24-0, all autos even different strains such as auto purple, auto purple cheese, blueberry auto, pyramids auto purple, plus a few more, these all started flowering around week 2 of growth and continued to flower until harvest, yields where tiny, i mean between 1/4 and 1/2 at the very most, got 1/2 off only 1 most where like 3/8 to below a 1/4,

so here is where i changed things around a bit and ill explain why after,
i tried an auto i had grown many times but this time i put it under 12-12 from start to finish,
it was a kc 45 from the same batch as the ones i grew under 24-0 and 20-4, so it was now under 12-12, i was expecting even smaller yields, but i was so wrong,
under 20-4 and 24-0 the yield was about the same each time, between 1/4 and 3/8ths at best, so under 12-12 i wasnt expecting much,

but this was my results,
under 24-0 and 20-4 my kc 45 started flowering at week 2 of growth,
under 12-12 they didnt start flowering till after week 3, the plant was also a lot taller and bushier than when grown under 20-4 and 24-0, which did shock me to be honest,

so it took an extra 2 weeks to start flowering, it took just under 4 weeks longer to grow and yield was around the 2oz mark with 4 buds 1ft in length and pretty fat, pics are on my journal,

so this is what i think is going on,
autos flower and are ready to harvest due to amount of light hours, so for example, lets say it takes 240 hours of light to reach harvest, we know they take much longer but its easier to explain if i keep it simple.
so it takes 240 hours of light to reach harvest,
under 24-0 this would take 10 days
under 12-12 it would be double this at 20 days,

now plants grow in the dark, they use the energy they stored during the day to grow roots and grow taller to find the light, this means the main stem grows taller meaning more nodes, all the side branches get longer again giving us more nodes,

so from the test i have run it seems that autos flower due to maximum light hours, under 20-4 and 24-0 they reach this age a lot quicker meaning less growth in days, now under 12-12 it takes twice as long and the plants are also growing when the lights are off, we know with regular plants that plants grown under 24-0 have very little stretch and are bushy plants, then when we flip 12-12 the plants stretch like crazy, the plants do this as their looking for the light again, then when the plants are in full flower the stretch stops as the plant is now used to the 12-12 cycle so no more stretch,

plants grown under 18-6 seem to do better than 24-0 because during the lighst off period the plant is using its stored energy to grow more root mass, repair any damage done during lights on and it also makes the plant stretch meaning more nodes and longer branches and bigger buds, more roots means it can support a bigger plant, it can give the plant more nutrients and will increase overall size and health of the plant, but its a c3 plant so it dont need dark and can be grown under 24-0 and will do ok under 24-0, but i know from my own experience that my plants grow better under 17-7 than 20-4, my plants all have bigger leaves, more growth, look a better shade of green, so i now use 17-7

anyways back to the autos,
autos need dark just as much as regular plants, more roots made in the dark means the plant will grow quicker as it has more roots to take in more nutrients and more water for the plant, the dark period also makes the plant stretch meaning longer stem and longer branches meaning more bud to harvest,

so autos would do better under 18-6 than they would under 20-4 and 24-0, im just speaking with a few growers to see if we can set up and auto grow journal where all auto growers can input their data and compare so we can all see what works well and what dont, but from my own experience autos grown under 20-4 and 24-0 will produce far less than they do under 12-12,
another grower has also found this to be true, he has got a monster auto growing under 12-12,
autos get big outdoors as well, outdoors their getting around 15 hours of light per day, so clearly they do well outdoors with just 15 hours of light,
what im working on now is which light schedule is best, i got around 2oz from kc45 under 12-12 and just over 1/4 under 20-4, but would i of got a bigger yield under something like 17-7, so this time round i got another 2 kc45 autos growing, they will be under 17-7 from start to finish then i can compare yield again and see what works best,

but it looks like autos do well with a dark period, it looks like they flower and reach harvest due to the amount of light hours they receive so giving them 20-4 and 24-0 makes them reach this earliy but gives poor yield, so giving them less light allows them to grow longer, my kc 45 finished about 3 to 4 weeks longer than they did under 20-4 and 24-0, the plant was also 3 times the size under 12-12, so making them grow longer by giving them less light seems to make them grow bigger and yield more,

this might not be the same for all strains but ive always got poor results under 24-0 and 20-4, never had a decent yield, but under 12-12 i had around 2oz and 4 1ft buds, i was lucky to get 2inch buds under 20-4, so clearly 12-12 is making the auto grow longer and yield more, so the night period also plays a big roll in autos, constant light seems to make them flower around week 2, and growth stops and they continue to flower, under 12-12 they flowered around week 4 and took between 3 and 4 weeks longer to reach harvest but this mean a much bigger plant and a much bigger yield,

so i would not scrog or even defol an auto, its pointless, any stress will stunt growth and limit the amount of growing time the plant has, but its really up to you what schedule you use, it might be 20-4 that works with the auto you choose but both me and another grower are using 12-12 and i got amazing results and this other grower has got a huge auto under same schedule,

so grow them normally, limit any transplant shock by starting them in a big enough pot to start with it transplant them very early to reduce any transplant shock, 12-12 might not be the best schedule but giving them a dark period seems to increase yield, so ill try 17-7 while my other plants are in veg and ill see how the kc45 gets on, under 20-4 i got 1/4 under 12-12 i got just over 2oz and huge buds, so lets see what 17-7 does, ill have more results to go from then and can see what schedule gives best results, ill also be gowing kc45's again under 12-12 when i flip my lights to 12-12 so i can then have a bigger test to see for sure if 12-12 is the magic number with autos, i really dont think 20-4 or 24-0 is the magic number, id say 18-6 and below,

 

[donpaul.p]

temps are crazy here as well, its about time we had some nice hot weather but i had to also raise my light and put a big fan up and leave grow door open when lights are on, i dont have a tent its a built in brick built cupboard so temps get pretty high when its a hot day, but i got big fans and switching them on sorts it out.

 

[Richard Richardson]

I agree DP.

Good reasoning there.

I did 18/6 ish with good-ish results, but we are trying to replicate nature,

so the climate of southern Spain would be a good one to copy

Like you say, 15 hrs of light, 27 degrees celsius and a warm breeze

 

[donpaul.p]

exactly, ruderalis which is an auto and the base for our auto cannabis plants grows in places like the mountains in russia, so its an auto flower because it dont have seasons as such like we do in other parts of the world, so it reproduces without 12-12 else it would not flower, so their is something else making them flower,
what i need to find out is if it flowers and reaches harvest due to age in actual days or due to age in light or dark hours,
after the tests i have been running im pretty sure its not down to how many days old the plant is, if it was due to how old in days then all my autos would grow about the same and flower and reach harvest at the same time, but the 12-12 autos took 3 to 4 weeks longer to reach harvest, so im pretty sure it dont flower and reach harvest due to how many days old it is,

im leaning more towards either total light hours it receives, the more light hours it receives over 24 hours means it reaches maturity a lot quicker and reaches harvest quicker, so it might get their quicker but getting their quicker means less days growing time,
so using 12-12 is giving it less light hours per 24 hours meaning its going to need more days to reach maturity, so this is the results im getting so far anyway,

but their is no saying 12-12 is the best, 12-12 might of taken it just a bit to far so ill run tests under different schedules and try and see where the sweet spot is, it might be that 18-6 or 17-7 i the best schedule or even something like 16-8, without testing these we wont know for sure, so this is why im suggesting starting a new journal and call it auto experiments, then if we get everyone who is growing autos to post their details their then the top post could be the following
what grower
what that grower is growing
what schedule
then the restults,
this would then give us all a place to go and get and add info to, plus new growers could go their and have a read, if everyone taking part in the test had a link in their signature that took growers to the auto experiment or test journal then im pretty sure we would find out what works best,

ive growm many autos and always gave them 20-4 and upto 24-0 and always got very poor results, as soon as i went 12-12 i got amazing results, yes they took longer to grow by 3 to 4 weeks but when i was getting a quater per plant and now im getting 2oz i know what id rather have, its still quicker than growing regular plants but growing them under 12-12 defeats the issue of them been auto, outdoors autos do well, indoors we tend to give them to much light by the looks of it,

so ill do more testing with autos, while im in veg ill grow some then when my lights go 12-12 ill grow the same strain and compare yields, but so far im leaning more towards the plants needed more dark period to enable them to grow longer and get bigger, so something like 17-7 or 18-6 might be the ideal for autos, but ill start lowering the schedule and see where it leads me, im on 17-7 now so next will be 12-12 then ill go 16-8 and so on, it will give me a good idea of what autos prefer,

i know many growers will argue they need the most light you can give them, but ill argue that i kept getting poor results under 20-4 and 24-0 and got amazing results and much bigger plants under 12-12, its going to be the same argument as 18-6 vs 24-0 for veg, i think 24-0 is not the best method to use, look how much plants stretch when we flip regular plants to 12-12, they stretch like crazy, their stretching because of the dark period, the roots are growing and the plants stretching to find the light, so clearly giving the plants some dark period during veg will make bigger plants,

for instance if you grow several seedlings and one is in the shade or the lighst to far away then it just stretches and falls over as them stem gets to weak as the top of the plant tries to get closer to the light,
so its the same when the lights go off, the plant uses stored energy to grow roots, repair damage caused during the lights on period and the plant also stretches to try and find the light, then when the light comes back on the stretch stops and the nodes grow, but the plant stretching means it will grow more nodes an the branches will get longer,

ive messed with all light schedules, 24-0, 20-4, 18-6 and glr, glr gave amazing results but then i grew autos so could not use glr, as i was growing autos i stopped using 18-6 as well, i got to the point where i was using 20-4 and i was thinking about getting rid of my dual spectrum hps, i thought it was not no good for veg, but since switching to 17-7 i realised the problem wasnt my light it was me stressing the plants by not letting them have enough dark period, im growing the same plants ive grown before but under 17-7 the leaves are huge and the roots on my dwc are 3 times the size of any of my other dec plants under 20-4, my plants look really healthy and ive never had them grow like this under 20-4, so my minds made up, 18-6 and below is the best schedule for these plants, autos included

 

[Richard Richardson]

I think you're spot on. Dark-Growth-Hours seems logical

The best outdoor autos seem to be grown in spain,

which only gets 15 hrs of light in july and august.

I think your Instinct is telling you 15/9.

If you can, Try it, I'm locked in 12/12 for the next few months, or I would

 

[CrimsonBlitz]

wow donpaul, you seem like a very intelligent guy. I'm gonna have to reread your post a few more times. I saved it as a word document I would love to contribute when I begin growing out my autofem northern lights x big buds if it'll help in any way. Really, thank you for sharing what you have learned. I'll be poking around in your journal as soon as I have some time.

Hi hodder, I really like what you did with the heat situation. I'm having major heat build up as well in my space, as high as 94F at the canopy, I may follow your advice and unscrew a few CFL's. for now odor isn't too bad so I have my cabinet doors wide open with AC running, current temp 83F. Thank you for sharing that with us, great idea!

 

[hodder356]

Hey DP thanks for that incredible information about Autos! +reps for sure! It was very interesting to learn about how many hours are needed by an auto to flower. Also it was nice to learn about the history of Ruderalis and auto strains, what a great read, so thanks again mate! it is an honor to have you here!

 

[hodder356]

Hey Crimson and Rico! welcome! Thanks for stopping by! It finally cooled off here a little with some much needed rain so temps are a little better today, running all 300 watts today lol, gotta fatten those buds up! I know its only four days since my last update but....I'm bored so its time for some pics! Thanks again for the great support everyone, this grow would not be as fun without you!

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[donpaul.p]

no worries both, i knew nothing when i started growing a couple of years ago so everything i pass on is things i have learned by doing research or learned through running my own tests, its ok listening to others but different strains give different results, different grow styles give different results, its why sites like this do so well, their is so much info on this site and so many members who have run tests and experienced different problems so we all learn and when we do learn we can then pass it on to others,

if that helps others produce better yields and helps with any issues or question then its all good,

i prefer to test things myself, its like the argument 24-0 vs 18-6, this argument will go on for ever, growers using 24-0 will always say their plants do much better, then growers under 18-6 say their wrong and 18-6 is the best method, so all i could really do was run tests myself over several grows using the same strains,

so i ran tests with 24-0, 20-4 and 18-6, 17-7, glr,
i found glr produces amazing growth in veg but i grow autos so cant use glr,
then i found 24-0 grows plants well but plants didnt seem to grow as rapid as others schedule,
now im using 17-7 for veg and getting brilliant results, the plants this time round have got bigger leaves, plants are growing well and big for the age, so i found that a night period does well for these plants, they respond well and grow better with a dark period,
but this could be strain related, for instance if a breeder has bred plants under 24-0 for several generations then 24-0 might be best for that strain, but it might not, look how much plants stretch when you put them 12-12, they stretch because their looking for the light, same as a plant does when its in the shade or to far from the light, so it makes sense to give the plants some dark period during veg so they get this upward stretch which means more nodes and more bud sites

until we grow more strains and test more autos we can only say whats best with the autos we have grown, the more we grow the more we learn.

thanks for the reps,

 

[Spimp]

 

[hodder356]

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Day 35 of 12/12

Hey everybody! welcome to day 35, things are going smooth still! Thanks again DP for all that great info, I think based on what you say I'll try 18/6 lighting during veg for my next grow, make some super roots!

So the buds have swelled a little. Im def happy with the quality so far, but my defoliation may have stunted bud growth a little lol. There is still time to fatten up I suppose. We also started week 5 of the FF soil nutrient schedule. With temps as high as they have been, I broke down an bought a portable AC unit, should be here in a couple days...lol.

So here are the pics! 1: notice the cute little under growth that is below the screen, I will probably clean all this out, but its just so cute lol. 2: Lets play find the dead fly in the sticky cola! I guess my buds were just too sticky for him lol....

So thanks for all the great support everybody! feel free to ask away if I forgot to mention anything. happy growing y'all!

 

[Treadstone]

Wow... That is a great looking plant! Looks more like a forest than a single plant!

Looks like it'll be a great grow, and a great smoke!

 

[TaylorMade420]

lovely looking plant you got there, would consider lowering you rlight a bit tho