i am concerned that i am not within the legal limits of the law. My county gives permission for 6 mature plants OR 12 immature plants AND 8 ounces of bud. i am wodering about a combination of mature and imature plants. i have two mothers and like 6 like 6 plants i want to flower. but the law says OR not AND. can anyone tell me if i can keep a mother and flower legaly
6 mature plants or 12 immature plants - Combination
- Thread starter teamgilly
- Start date
Hightide805
New Member
"11362.77. (a) A qualified patient or primary caregiver may possess no more than eight ounces of dried marijuana per qualified patient. In addition, a qualified patient or primary caregiver may also maintain no more than six mature or 12 immature marijuana plants per qualified patient."
i read it like you can have both, just no more then the designated amount of either mature or immature... you can have no more then 6 mature or no more then 12 immature. thats what my doc told me aswell.
i read it like you can have both, just no more then the designated amount of either mature or immature... you can have no more then 6 mature or no more then 12 immature. thats what my doc told me aswell.
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- #3
oneofthemguys
New Member
It's up for interpretation, based on the judge.
What's defined as a mature and immature plant seems to be omitted.
I'm going to assume the 12 immature and 6 mature was decided due to the theory that you'd probably harvest 1 - 6 plants at a time, for personal use. However, it takes several months to grow them, so you'd likely have several immature ones growing behind them.
Also, notice the numbers 6 and 12. Year and half year. One plant a month SHOULD be able to hold a patient over.
What's defined as a mature and immature plant seems to be omitted.
I'm going to assume the 12 immature and 6 mature was decided due to the theory that you'd probably harvest 1 - 6 plants at a time, for personal use. However, it takes several months to grow them, so you'd likely have several immature ones growing behind them.
Also, notice the numbers 6 and 12. Year and half year. One plant a month SHOULD be able to hold a patient over.
My personal understanding...
I think they're thinking plant 12, flower them, half are males and get pulled, then you have the six remaining mature females that you take the rest of the way. When done, you start over from seed.
Regardless of what phase you are in, you can have the 8 OZ in addition to the live plants.
This is what is known as the safe harbor provision or the minimum amount that any patient in the state can have. Your doctor's recommendation may allow you to have more, and/or different counties have written their safe harbor minimums at larger amounts.
The state law keeps this level as a min, counties can increase but not decrease from there.
They apparently didn't take alternate continuous growing methods into account (mothers, SOG, cloning), or feminized seeds.
I think they're thinking plant 12, flower them, half are males and get pulled, then you have the six remaining mature females that you take the rest of the way. When done, you start over from seed.
Regardless of what phase you are in, you can have the 8 OZ in addition to the live plants.
This is what is known as the safe harbor provision or the minimum amount that any patient in the state can have. Your doctor's recommendation may allow you to have more, and/or different counties have written their safe harbor minimums at larger amounts.
The state law keeps this level as a min, counties can increase but not decrease from there.
They apparently didn't take alternate continuous growing methods into account (mothers, SOG, cloning), or feminized seeds.
- Thread starter
- #6
Not necessarily, what did your doctor's recommendation allow?
The values are minimums meaning that no county may restrict below that level.
The values are minimums meaning that no county may restrict below that level.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say no. I'd love to hear from a lawyer on this.
If your going strictly by the state's safe harbor minimum and don't have a doctor's recommendaion to exceed, then I'd think you'd need to be 3 mature, 3 immature. I say this because the law is phrased "OR"
If your going strictly by the state's safe harbor minimum and don't have a doctor's recommendaion to exceed, then I'd think you'd need to be 3 mature, 3 immature. I say this because the law is phrased "OR"
Racefan
Well-Known Member
No your over the limit. It's either 6 mature or 12 inmature. The only way to stay within limits and have both inmature and mature is to not total more than 6 plants total. Teamgillys mothers are 2 of the 6. He's allowed 4 more plants. Period.
BUT.....your doctor decideds what's legal for you, not the county. Talk to him/her and discuss edibles. Tell him/her that 6 isn't enough to make butter and cook with and tell him to write on your recommendation that you require more. i'm allowed 25 plants total and 5lbs of processed bud at any time even though my county does the 6 and 12 too.
damn!
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- #14
wifecaretaker
New Member
Wifes a patient, Im the caregiver,
can we only have 6 plants total?
Or 12?
6 + 6
Common sense tells me 6 total, but whats the law?
can we only have 6 plants total?
Or 12?
6 + 6
Common sense tells me 6 total, but whats the law?
Qaulifying this is my personal understanding and I'm not a lawyer;
Unless your doctor has increased your allowed amounts on the recommendation, or you are in a county that has higher minimums than the State's minimum then;
You may have 12 before you flower but these need to be culled down to 6 once you mature them (flower them)
As Racefan said, and I'll expand on, if your wife takes her medicine by eating rather than smoking, it typically take 4x more quantity. If this is how she takes her medicine and you tell your doctor this, he should increase your allowed amounts
Unless your doctor has increased your allowed amounts on the recommendation, or you are in a county that has higher minimums than the State's minimum then;
You may have 12 before you flower but these need to be culled down to 6 once you mature them (flower them)
As Racefan said, and I'll expand on, if your wife takes her medicine by eating rather than smoking, it typically take 4x more quantity. If this is how she takes her medicine and you tell your doctor this, he should increase your allowed amounts
i keep hearing and reading about people not fully understanding the law. i will try and sum it up for you from my personal experience here in cali (growing the last 5 years, and going through a bogus raid).
my dr rec says i can have anything less than 90 and specefically says it exceeds 420 guidelines. the problem is that there is a lot of gray area in the laws left open for interpretation by the judge and da.
last year i went through a case where they took everything. i was under my recs #s, and inside my 10'x20' canopy for my 2 recs. i ended up getting off no charges, but they took all the smoke and gave the grow equipment back. i had a good lawyer and everything. remember even if the cops think your plants will yield more than you can legally have, they can and more than likely will take them. if you are lucky to get the smoke back it will be premature and moldy more than likely. its a risk i am not willing to take again even if my dr says i can.
sanoma county has the highest guidelines in CA at 99 plants in 100 sqft area at any stage, and 3 lbs of dried buds.
i highlighted the things the judge and DA will bring up in court, sometimes repeatedly in different wording, if you are unlucky enough to get busted.
this is straight from canorml:
"In recognition of the fact that the guidelines are inadequate for many very ill patients, SB 420 allows patients to be exempted from them if they obtain a physician’s statement that they need more.
In deference to local autonomy, SB 420 also allows counties and cities to establish higher - but now lower - guidelines if they so choose. As a result, the new law will not overturn liberal guidelines that are now in effect in Sonoma and elsewhere. However, it should force more restrictive counties, such as San Bernardino and Fresno, which have heretofore had "zero tolerance" policies, to honor the new statewide minimum standard. Medical marijuana activists are lobbying other counties and cities that currently lack guidelines to override those in SB 420."
"Strictly speaking, the guidelines do not constitute hard and fast limits on how much patients may legally have. This is because Prop. 215 specifically allows patients whatever amount of marijuana they need for their own medical use, and Prop. 215 cannot be overridden by the legislature. Rather, the guidelines are supposed to protect patients from arrest, something that is nowhere guaranteed in Prop. 215 itself. Therefore, even though patients who exceed the limits are subject to arrest, they should still be able to defend themselves in court under Prop. 215. Nonetheless, defense attorneys are fearful that some courts will misinterpret the new law as an absolute limit and wrongfully convict patients for exceeding it They fully expect that further litigation will be needed to settle the matter in the higher courts."
SB 420 Enforcement Guidelines
* State law, SB 420 (Health & Safety Code 11362.7), which took effect on Jan. 1, 2004, protects Prop. 215 patients from arrest provided they cultivate no more than 6 mature or 12 immature plants and possess no more than 8 ounces of dried marijuana (H&SC 11362.77(a)).
* Counties and cities are authorized to establish higher (but not lower) limits if they wish (H&SC 11362.77(c)). Listed above are those localities that have adopted limits above the state limit.
* Patients who need more marijuana can be exempted from these limits if they obtain a physician's statement specifying that they need more (H&SC 11362.77(b)). While police are often reluctant to recognize such exemptions, they are helpful in court.
* The legality of the SB 420 limits is disputed. California NORML attorneys maintain that SB 420 cannot constitutionally limit the amount of marijuana patients can legally have insofar as Prop. 215 allows them to possess and cultivate whatever is necessary for their personal medical needs. However, this issue has not been settled by the courts. Patients who exceed the limits risk being arrested and having to defend themselves in court. Any patient who needs more than the limits is strongly advised to obtain a physician's exemption.
* On May 22, 2008, the Second District of California Court of Appeals ruled that the state limits on medical marijuana possession and cultivation established under state law SB 420 are unconstitutional. That decision is being appealed to the California Supreme Court. The court's reasoning would seem to apply only when the SB 420 numbers are used to limit patients' rights, but might be interpreted otherwise by police who would prefer to ignore it.
* Despite supposed protections of SB 420 and Prop 215, patients may still be arrested if law enforcement suspects they are outside the law, for example, by being involved in illegal sales or distribution, or growing plants with excessive yields.
* In general, the state Attorney General has given local authorities discretion in how they enforce Prop. 215, as explained in a letter to local law enforcement officials. The AG's office is expected to issue further guidelines soon.
bottom line the numbers are fine if you arent planning on becoming the next king pin in your local area. grow what you need and wait for the laws to change. i have found it is plenty easy to support yourself and your habbit off 6 mature plants.
hope all that helps...here is the direct link.
CA NORML News
CA NORML Medical Marijuana Information
EDIT: as for edibles, they are inadmissable in court. none of what i say in this post is opinion, just my experience with law enforcement, my judge, and one of the better prop215 lawyers in CA. unfortunately my girls were complete giants last year.
my dr rec says i can have anything less than 90 and specefically says it exceeds 420 guidelines. the problem is that there is a lot of gray area in the laws left open for interpretation by the judge and da.
last year i went through a case where they took everything. i was under my recs #s, and inside my 10'x20' canopy for my 2 recs. i ended up getting off no charges, but they took all the smoke and gave the grow equipment back. i had a good lawyer and everything. remember even if the cops think your plants will yield more than you can legally have, they can and more than likely will take them. if you are lucky to get the smoke back it will be premature and moldy more than likely. its a risk i am not willing to take again even if my dr says i can.
sanoma county has the highest guidelines in CA at 99 plants in 100 sqft area at any stage, and 3 lbs of dried buds.
i highlighted the things the judge and DA will bring up in court, sometimes repeatedly in different wording, if you are unlucky enough to get busted.
this is straight from canorml:
"In recognition of the fact that the guidelines are inadequate for many very ill patients, SB 420 allows patients to be exempted from them if they obtain a physician’s statement that they need more.
In deference to local autonomy, SB 420 also allows counties and cities to establish higher - but now lower - guidelines if they so choose. As a result, the new law will not overturn liberal guidelines that are now in effect in Sonoma and elsewhere. However, it should force more restrictive counties, such as San Bernardino and Fresno, which have heretofore had "zero tolerance" policies, to honor the new statewide minimum standard. Medical marijuana activists are lobbying other counties and cities that currently lack guidelines to override those in SB 420."
"Strictly speaking, the guidelines do not constitute hard and fast limits on how much patients may legally have. This is because Prop. 215 specifically allows patients whatever amount of marijuana they need for their own medical use, and Prop. 215 cannot be overridden by the legislature. Rather, the guidelines are supposed to protect patients from arrest, something that is nowhere guaranteed in Prop. 215 itself. Therefore, even though patients who exceed the limits are subject to arrest, they should still be able to defend themselves in court under Prop. 215. Nonetheless, defense attorneys are fearful that some courts will misinterpret the new law as an absolute limit and wrongfully convict patients for exceeding it They fully expect that further litigation will be needed to settle the matter in the higher courts."
SB 420 Enforcement Guidelines
* State law, SB 420 (Health & Safety Code 11362.7), which took effect on Jan. 1, 2004, protects Prop. 215 patients from arrest provided they cultivate no more than 6 mature or 12 immature plants and possess no more than 8 ounces of dried marijuana (H&SC 11362.77(a)).
* Counties and cities are authorized to establish higher (but not lower) limits if they wish (H&SC 11362.77(c)). Listed above are those localities that have adopted limits above the state limit.
* Patients who need more marijuana can be exempted from these limits if they obtain a physician's statement specifying that they need more (H&SC 11362.77(b)). While police are often reluctant to recognize such exemptions, they are helpful in court.
* The legality of the SB 420 limits is disputed. California NORML attorneys maintain that SB 420 cannot constitutionally limit the amount of marijuana patients can legally have insofar as Prop. 215 allows them to possess and cultivate whatever is necessary for their personal medical needs. However, this issue has not been settled by the courts. Patients who exceed the limits risk being arrested and having to defend themselves in court. Any patient who needs more than the limits is strongly advised to obtain a physician's exemption.
* On May 22, 2008, the Second District of California Court of Appeals ruled that the state limits on medical marijuana possession and cultivation established under state law SB 420 are unconstitutional. That decision is being appealed to the California Supreme Court. The court's reasoning would seem to apply only when the SB 420 numbers are used to limit patients' rights, but might be interpreted otherwise by police who would prefer to ignore it.
* Despite supposed protections of SB 420 and Prop 215, patients may still be arrested if law enforcement suspects they are outside the law, for example, by being involved in illegal sales or distribution, or growing plants with excessive yields.
* In general, the state Attorney General has given local authorities discretion in how they enforce Prop. 215, as explained in a letter to local law enforcement officials. The AG's office is expected to issue further guidelines soon.
bottom line the numbers are fine if you arent planning on becoming the next king pin in your local area. grow what you need and wait for the laws to change. i have found it is plenty easy to support yourself and your habbit off 6 mature plants.
hope all that helps...here is the direct link.
CA NORML News
CA NORML Medical Marijuana Information
EDIT: as for edibles, they are inadmissable in court. none of what i say in this post is opinion, just my experience with law enforcement, my judge, and one of the better prop215 lawyers in CA. unfortunately my girls were complete giants last year.
TRIPLE D
New Member
YEA..(I read it like you can have both TO ), just no more then the designated amount of either mature or immature... you can have no more then 6 mature or no more then 12 immature @ one time..
6 IN MATURE FLOWERING AND 12 IN ANY STAGE OF VEG..
Just as long as its not flowering..
6 IN MATURE FLOWERING AND 12 IN ANY STAGE OF VEG..
Just as long as its not flowering..wannabgreen
New Member
you gotta be carefull on the mature/immature determination, i was reading through a mmj bill thats been introduced in either illinois or wisconsin(read them both forgot which 1 stated this) and it had the same 6 or 12 which is meant to be 6 or 12 NOT BOTH, but what i actually wanted to relay was that in the bills i was reading 1 of them actually gave a defination of what they say mature is and it didn't have anything to do flowering it stated that any plant measuring more than 12" tall or 12" wide was considered mature. as for having mature and immature plants at the same time i think i'd stick with a 6 plant total for the purpose of not being arrested. you'd have to read the enitre law to make a determination of how to stay out of trouble with a combination of mature/immature, if you personally know any cops in your area who you'd be safe talking to about it i'd do that just to get the picture of what the actual cops are thinking about when it comes to that, because if it's not clearly defined in the law then it's one of those grey areas that i myself wouldn't want to tread in. if you have not read the complete law in your state/county/city i would strongly urge you to do so, reading that in it's entirety might cost you a few hours of reading but think what it could cost you if you don't fully comprehend whats legal and whats not.
TRIPLE D
New Member
dude got a good point anything above 12inches can be considered mature ) but you can be flowering at 12 inches is why..
