Paul Squiggle
Well-Known Member
You've got the magic touch mate
Nice work
Nice work
420's Soil Ppm Charlie Grow Journal, 9/2021
- Thread starter ppm Charlie
- Start date
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Hi Charlie!
I have been watching your grow since the beginning, and I was sort of expecting this result. I hope I can help. First, to better understand your system, which I understand is a soilless mix buffered to run at 6.0 pH, I am first extremely curious how you are working this mix and at what pH you are coming in at with all of your fluids and if you are feeding with each watering. Also, please remind me what nutes you are using? It is my belief that you are having some pH difficulties and I think I see why. If I missed these details in reading along all this time, please excuse me.
420 Ceasar
Well-Known Member
@ppm Charlie nice setup and nice ladies looking very lovely I had to do some reading to catch up very interesting stuff you have going on here so I'm stepping out from lurking and sending you and your ladies some positive greenthumb vibes I'm in till the endBeen about three weeks since my last reporting. The flowering tent is up and running, clone cuttings were taken and much transplanting of 420 took place. I last described my 2 X 4 X 5 veg tent. Most 420 was lately transplanted and transferred to the 4 X 8 X 7.8 flowering tent. Here are the 420 strains put into flowering tent and description of flowering tent follows.
Strain: 4 Feminized Northern Lights & 4 Fruity Pebbles [alleged genus, free seeds]
About Strain: Northern Lights - 95% Indica; Fruity Pebbles - hybrid, approx 55% Indica
Life Stage: 9 weeks vegetative and now 3 days into flowering
In/Out: Indoor
Flowering Grow Space: 4' X 8' X 7.8' grow tent
Soil: Soilless media, 70% peat, 30% perlite, approx mix starting pH = 6.0 +/- 0.25, mycorrhizal inoculant + dolomite, no lime
Current Pot Size: 5-gal and 7-gal Vivosun fabric bags
Lights: Four non-sponsor LEDs full spectrum dual chip LED lamps, 200 watt actual power draw each, 16" to 20" above tops.
Cooling: Air cooled; 1 passive 6" intake (lower, end); 1 passive 4" intake (lower, opposite end), one 6" Vivosun extraction fan (upper, sidewall end) Variac controlled fan speed adjustment, 2 vertically hung upside down 16" oscillating fans (end corners); one 6" carbon exhaust filter; exhaust output to out-of-doors; one 6-liter humidifier, 1 humidity controller
Temp/RH in Room: 72-75 deg F, RH 40%-50% (days) ; 67-68 deg F, RH 40%-50% (nights)
Temp/RH of Tent: 80-85 deg F, RH 40%-50% (days) ; 67-68 deg F, RH 40%-50% (nights)
Pests: None (so far, knock on wood)
Watering Schedule: varies, beginning once per week
Nutes: General Hydroponics Flora Pro pack, flowering week 1 schedule, varied feed schedule
Two weeks ago, I transplanted eight 420 plants that were in the veg tent and placed them in the flowering tent. Four Fruity Pebbles went in 7-gal fabric bags, 3 Northern Lights went in 5-gal fabric bags and one Northern Lights went in a 7-gal fabric bag. All these plants were formerly in 1-gal plastic pots. Afterward, I continued the veg timing cycle,18/6, for one week to stabilize the transplants and ensure the plants responded well to the intense white-light flowering tent LEDs. Three days ago, I took cuttings. That same day, I denuded all easily removed leaves and stripped the plants except topmost fan leaves. I am trying a proven denuding-stress technique that promises increased yield by denuding all easily removed leaves at day-one of flower and again at exactly day-18 of flower time. I will see if it works. After stripping leaves, I tied down the branches to spread them in preparation of cola flowering. Please see the pics below. As you see leaves are "new-leaf" lime green and returning to the stalk and stems nicely after only 3 days. That day, I also switched the light cycle to 12/12.
4 Northern Lights - @ 3 days flowering after full leaf denuding
4 Fruity Pebbles @ 3 days flowering after full leaf denuding
Carbon filter and extraction fan setup showing fire alarm at upper left, non-sponsor LEDs blanked out in lower
Ceiling hung upside down 16" oscillating fan, 6-liter ultrasonic humidifier at floor, humidity controller at top
I will soon be replacing my cheap outlet strips with good surge control suppressor outlets. I will also add two large fire extinguishers to the flowering room and a dedicated 120v circuit for the LED lights. Also, I will be cleaning up the tent a bit ordering cords and ropes. Safety first. ppm Charlie
420 Ceasar
Well-Known Member
It is the 5th day since denuding leaves and the start of the 12/12 flowering cycle. Today, I top dressed the flowering tent 420 with a 1/2-to-3/4-inch layer of peat moss and served my plants a compost tea, yucca and kelp. I added some additional phosphate fertilizer from the General Hydroponics series, plus an iron supplement. I believe my soil pH has drifted a little high so the peat moss top dress should help and extra iron should green them up a little more.
I think they were slightly iron deficient prior to starting the 12/12 light cycle because of a previous badly timed flush. The water I use has basically no iron in it. Today, I did not water to overflow because I did not want to flush the compost ingredients out. I gave each plant approximately 1/2-gallon of the pH 6.0+/-0.25 mixture. I noticed "happier plants" within hours. Plus, the intense contrast in color between the dark peat topping in black fabric bags and the awesome green vigorous 420 is so very pleasing to my mind's eye. So, I was "happier" too!
Small hairs are beginning to form on both the Fruity Pebbles and Northern Light strains. Both strains have started their stretch. I am trying to keep the Fruity Pebbles spread-out and less-tall (good luck with that...Charlie). Yesterday, I use a low stress trainer appliance to bend a couple of the longer Fruity Pebbles stalks. I succeeded at training one, the other try resulted in stem damage. I guess the time for low stress training has ended as all 420 stems and stalks in the flowering tent are becoming too "stiff" to bend to any significant degree.
Recent, flowering tent temps have been 80-83 deg F range. I notice 80-81 deg F at the tent ends above the outside air inlets and 82-83 deg F in the tent center. Flowering tent RH has been in the low to mid 40's, except immediately after a watering event when it will drift as high as 50%.
Below are pics from tonight.
Fruity Pebbles 5 days after denuding leaves and beginning 12/12 flowering cycle.
Fruity Pebbles 5 days after denuding leaves and beginning 12/12 flowering cycle.
Hard to see - hairs forming in this Northern Lights unit-toid.
I see a couple of hairs on this Northern Lights.
Hairs for sure on this Fruity Pebbles.
Fruity Pebbles. Ain't she a beauty!
ppm Charlie
@Krissi1982 , @Paul Squiggle , @West Hippie
@ppm Charlie those look like we'll taken cared of ladies you are doing a great job and your attention to details makes for a very easy and interesting readIt is the 5th day since denuding leaves and the start of the 12/12 flowering cycle. Today, I top dressed the flowering tent 420 with a 1/2-to-3/4-inch layer of peat moss and served my plants a compost tea, yucca and kelp. I added some additional phosphate fertilizer from the General Hydroponics series, plus an iron supplement. I believe my soil pH has drifted a little high so the peat moss top dress should help and extra iron should green them up a little more.
I think they were slightly iron deficient prior to starting the 12/12 light cycle because of a previous badly timed flush. The water I use has basically no iron in it. Today, I did not water to overflow because I did not want to flush the compost ingredients out. I gave each plant approximately 1/2-gallon of the pH 6.0+/-0.25 mixture. I noticed "happier plants" within hours. Plus, the intense contrast in color between the dark peat topping in black fabric bags and the awesome green vigorous 420 is so very pleasing to my mind's eye. So, I was "happier" too!
Small hairs are beginning to form on both the Fruity Pebbles and Northern Light strains. Both strains have started their stretch. I am trying to keep the Fruity Pebbles spread-out and less-tall (good luck with that...Charlie). Yesterday, I use a low stress trainer appliance to bend a couple of the longer Fruity Pebbles stalks. I succeeded at training one, the other try resulted in stem damage. I guess the time for low stress training has ended as all 420 stems and stalks in the flowering tent are becoming too "stiff" to bend to any significant degree.
Recent, flowering tent temps have been 80-83 deg F range. I notice 80-81 deg F at the tent ends above the outside air inlets and 82-83 deg F in the tent center. Flowering tent RH has been in the low to mid 40's, except immediately after a watering event when it will drift as high as 50%.
Below are pics from tonight.
Fruity Pebbles 5 days after denuding leaves and beginning 12/12 flowering cycle.
Fruity Pebbles 5 days after denuding leaves and beginning 12/12 flowering cycle.
Hard to see - hairs forming in this Northern Lights unit-toid.
I see a couple of hairs on this Northern Lights.
Hairs for sure on this Fruity Pebbles.
Fruity Pebbles. Ain't she a beauty!
ppm Charlie
@Krissi1982 , @Paul Squiggle , @West Hippie
- Thread starter
- #45
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. I am trying hard. There are so many 420 growing techniques and variations of technique that I want to try. I am trying to keep it simple this time and testing a leaf denuding technique I learned about to provide better yields. The leaf denuding technique is supposed to induce 420 stress in development and lead to better light penetration below the canopy which both potentially lead to better yields. Time will tell.@ppm Charlie those look like we'll taken cared of ladies you are doing a great job and your attention to details makes for a very easy and interesting read
It is the 11th day since denuding leaves and the start of the 12/12 flowering cycle. Two days ago, I water/nuted the flowering tent 420 with General Hydroponics series (aggressive feed - week 2), plus an iron supplement, a compost tea, a fungal mat feed product and liquid kelp. I will water/nute again tomorrow and add a little more iron and N to green-up the new growth a bit. All flowering 420 looks good to me though and the flowering tops are manifesting nicely.
I gave each plant approximately 1-gal to 1-1/2-gal of the pH 6.0+/-0.25 mixture to overflow return of approx 20%. The Fruity Pebbles sativa dominants and one Northern Lights indica dominant are in 7-gal fabric bags. The rest of the indica dominants are in 5-gal fabric bags. I may have mixed-up two plant labels as one Fruity Pebbles looks more like a Northern Lights and one Northern Lights looks more like a Fruity Pebbels. Small flowering buds are beginning to form on all the Fruity Pebbles and Northern Light strains. Both strains have continue their flowering stretch.
Recent, flowering tent temps have been 78-82 deg F range. Flowering tent RH has been in the low to mid 40's, except immediately after a watering event when it will drift as high as 50%. I am trying to decrease flowering tent temps slowly and hopefully will be able to attain 68-70 deg F in the week or so before harvest.
Below are flowering tent pics from today.
Flowering tent 420.
Fruity Pebbles(?) - possibly mislabeled.
Fruity Pebbles.
Northern Lights.
The possibly mislabeled 420 - good looking spread.
Fruity Pebbles.
Northern Lights.
Northern Lights (foreground), mislabeled (?) 420 (rearmost).
Northern Lights.
Northern Lights.
Fruity Pebbles.
Thanks for coming by...ppm Charlie. @Krissi1982 , @Paul Squiggle , @Bill284
Look at these!!!! Wow Charlie, dialed in for sure!Veg tent Candy Kush feminized and Northern-Lights/Skunk and Fruity Pebbles/OG crosses are doing better since last week. I was embarrassed by last weeks pics I posted. I gave these vegs some compost tea, nutes, extra N and supplemental iron three days ago. All 420 in the veg tent doing better although they still need a little more TLC and greening up. I have switched the LED lighting from "full spectrum: to "blue-light veg" because of "sunburning" of some veg 420 leaves. Worked wonders. Pic below, sorry about the poor lighting for the pic.
My Northern Lights and Fruity Pebbles cloned 420 seem to be doing well. They are 10-days old. As shown in the pic below. Sorry for the poor pic lighting, it makes them look yellow, they are not.
ppm Charlie
@Krissi1982 , @Paul Squiggle , @Bill284
- Thread starter
- #47
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Nice...but you have the "Earth Mother" gene...my horticulturist gene is a simple male imitator. My 420 does speak to me a bit - sometimes loudly, like "WTF"...and sometimes a soft murmur, like "purr". Finding the happy middle-ground is difficult for a novice like me.
I'm dead
thank you kindly for those words on my behalf As for you...if you think I don't curse in my tents, you're dead ass wrong! I do..this morning for example, after a night of no sleep and arguing with TK about turning the light on on my sleeping G for 10 seconds, no sleep for the wicked-I walk in to check on the girls, my 2 year old (almost) has a pint of Ben and Jerry's open on the carpet trying to eat it with a copper straw on the way over there, take care of that real fast and then I see my girls OVERNIGHT growing a lot and having a color change...meaning they are hungry...one minute they're perfect and the next they need attention-it always seems to be when my attentions need to be elsewhere, buuuut that Mother Earth just knows to take care of it and breathe. She usually comes after a loud "Son of a Mother" but she comes...the inherent desire to cultivate cannabis or any garden means that you too, have Mother Earth somewhere inside you
- Thread starter
- #49
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
I understand - don't see how you do it all. At my age, I could never keep up the way you do. I remember when my grandson was young, I would keep him sometimes after kindergarten and after grade school. More times than not, I calling his mother if she was late saying: "...come get this boy, he's running around full-throttle and on my last nerve, please have MERCY.". So many good memories though...he's in his late-20's now. Great young man with a great mom.I'm dead
As for you...if you think I don't curse in my tents, you're dead ass wrong! I do..this morning for example, after a night of no sleep and arguing with TK about turning the light on on my sleeping G for 10 seconds, no sleep for the wicked-I walk in to check on the girls, my 2 year old (almost) has a pint of Ben and Jerry's open on the carpet trying to eat it with a copper straw on the way over there, take care of that real fast and then I see my girls OVERNIGHT growing a lot and having a color change...meaning they are hungry...one minute they're perfect and the next they need attention-it always seems to be when my attentions need to be elsewhere, buuuut that Mother Earth just knows to take care of it and breathe. She usually comes after a loud "Son of a Mother" but she comes...the inherent desire to cultivate cannabis or any garden means that you too, have Mother Earth somewhere inside you
I can barely keep up with plant feedings and maintenance sometimes - they change so much day-by-day. I just make a list - whatever I don't get to today, I continue on the next day. Sometimes things just fall through the cracks. I try not to sweat it but I am a more "A" personality and it is difficult sometimes. Sometimes you just have to let it go and say "F-it", it will wait, I've done my best. I learned over the years I can't be all things to all people - just be your best and love yourself for who you are.
@Krissi1982
420 Ceasar
Well-Known Member
That is very true you must start within if you ever plan to have love for others and in this case our wonderful 420 plants so keep your head up and continue on your path to success and remember perseverance is also key to reaching your goals and you my friend seem to have it in abundance
It's a fine line and a difficult balance for sure. Some days are maddening. This morning I made him chocolate milk and I didn't see him grab the syrup when I turned my head. He poured it all over the carpet and the walls in 2 minutes. I have to clean the carpets today-have the carpet cleaning machine out already
..the girls need constant monitoring at this stage, come a few weeks, I am cocoasting. In flower, they take care of themselves. I know I can't do it all. I try but I'm realistic. Like you said perfectly, just do your best
- Thread starter
- #52
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Thank you very much for coming by and I greatly appreciate your kind and thoughtful input. I am using a home-mixed 70% peat - 30% perlite media, pH adjusted with dolomite, with Mycorrhizal inoculate mixed in. I am working with spring-water/nute adjusted fluids approx pH=6.0 +/-0.25.
I guess I have used a "shotgun" approach to nutes and spplements. At different times, I have variously added liquid yucca as a wetting agent, liquid kelp, some CaNO3, some Epsom Salts for added Mg, a liquid iron supplement to green them up, some over-the-counter compost tea, some Recharge-brand microbial feed, some liquid Ocean Magic micro-nutes (if I spot a slight deficiency) and a little silica for stalk/stem strength and heat stress resistance.
I tend to feed at each watering now and supplement some. My 420 is in early flower (beginning 3rd week) with apprx 20% to waste. I water - straight water - every few times, as needed. For main nutes, I am relying on the General Hydroponics Pro Flora series. Recently, aggressive feeds. I find the GH series lacks a little N and Fe "punch" and supplement for that reason.
You may be correct about the pH difficulties - I think it is in the media mix. I think they are coming around though, recently. In the beginning, I may have gotten a little "happy" with the dolomite mixed-in but I think I have migrated soil pH to lower realms by repeated pH adjusted water/nute applications. It is hard at this point to make significant changes to the media. Live and learn.
In any case, I am always open to your wise advice as you are well known as a top-notch grower and have lots more experience than I. I think next grow I will keep the peat/perlite home-mix but use GeoFlora nutes which I ordered recently. I like the GH Pro but it is a lot of work. I will probably still use their KoolBloom and Floralicious Plus product. I find both helpful. Next feeding I will start stressing them a little with low concentrations of Signal.
I included a few pics from the flowering tent today below.
Flowering tent 420. Fruity Pebbles and Northern Lights.
Northern Lights (foreground, Fruity Pebbles (background)
Northern Lights - beginning week 3 flowering.
Fruity Pebbles - beginning week 3 flowering.
@Emilya , @West Hippie , @Krissi1982 , @Paul Squiggle
- Thread starter
- #53
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Two-year-olds - always the next "WTF" surprise around the corner. LOL!
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
In your soilless mix there is no nutrition for the plants. This pretty much requires you to feed every time. I think that a misconception of what is happening pH wise in your system is what is causing your difficulties in picking up some of the nutrients.
Traditionally a peat media is of a lower pH, sometimes even as low as in the 4's, and the pH requirements are definitely in the hydro range of 5.5-6.1 pH. Your variables are the pH of the water (7.0) and the nutes themselves. Lets say you aim your pH at 6.1 for your incoming nute water. The plant will start to use the nutes, reducing the pressure to send the pH to the lower end by the removal of their acidic influence, and the pH of the system will start to creep upward, toward the pH of the water. This along with the buffering abilities of the peat which tends to hold the pH down, reduces the wild upswing of the pH as the nutes enter the plant and the pH of the system is taken over by the water itself. This allows a typical hydro grower using peat and water to come in at a lower pH, such as 5.5, and enjoy a long time in the proper pH range as it rises up to around 6.1 pH.
You have added dolomite, which is an upper end buffer that is going to try to move your pH up a lot more rapidly than in a traditional peat type grow. You have done a test and have determined that the peat/dolomite mix is now near 6.1, rather than in the 4's and 5's as would be found in a plain peat grow. This is going to create an extremely fast upward drift, and I believe it could still work well if you always came in with your fluids at the very bottom of the hydro range, or 5.5 pH.
You are coming in at the upper end however, with all of your fluids. You have assumed that you are in balance at 6.1, and that your plants have full time access to the nutes. The problem however is that at the moment you water, things are balanced into a value near 6.1... but quickly that changes. As the dolomite reacts to your fluids, the pH will begin to rise. As the plant starts to use nutrients, that acidic influence is reduced, and much too quickly your fluids are going to rise up into the soil range... above 6.1 pH. Your nutes however are designed to be most active down in the 5.5-6.1 range, and much too early your pH will drift upwards out of that range. This is what I believe is the cause of your deficiencies.
As I said near the top, I think what you are doing is usable, just not the way you are using it. Try adjusting your nute solutions down to the low end a few times to see the difference. I think that if you adjust to 5.5 - 5.6 you would get the most response from your nutes. At least try moving down to 5.8, just to keep in the range a little longer. I think that you will find a profound change in your situation if you simply adjust lower.
Or, as you mentioned, you could move to a completely new system like Geoflora, that doesn't care about pH and come at this from a new direction. Good luck with your adjustments.
- Thread starter
- #55
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Thank you kindly for your wise input. I will take your advice and lower the liquid pH to the 5.5-5.6 range. I think you are correct.
- Thread starter
- #56
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Love those positive GOOD vibes - it's working!@ppm Charlie nice setup and nice ladies looking very lovely I had to do some reading to catch up very interesting stuff you have going on here so I'm stepping out from lurking and sending you and your ladies some positive greenthumb vibes I'm in till the end
- Thread starter
- #57
ppm Charlie
Well-Known Member
Happy T-Day
Day 16 since start of 12/12 flowering cycle
Fruity Pebbles and Northern Lights
Day 16 since start of 12/12 flowering cycle
Fruity Pebbles and Northern Lights
Hey Charlie hope you are well.Happy T-Day
Day 16 since start of 12/12 flowering cycle
Fruity Pebbles and Northern Lights
I'm a little late,sorry.
Happy turkey day.
Ok if I pull up a chair at the back.
Stay safe
Bill
They look great Charlie!! Happy Turkey Day againHappy T-Day
Day 16 since start of 12/12 flowering cycle
Fruity Pebbles and Northern Lights
420 Ceasar
Well-Known Member
Happy Holidays and positive greenthumb vibesHappy T-Day
Day 16 since start of 12/12 flowering cycle
Fruity Pebbles and Northern Lights