Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
ive had more nodes with 24/0 when i tested this against 18/6. never used 20/4
ive had more nodes with 24/0 when i tested this against 18/6. never used 20/4
Mythbusters
- Thread starter Keith Lake
- Start date
The Lurker
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
Good idea for a thread... PotBusters 4-2-0 (420Busters?)
----------
How about this one?
16) You need several hundred watts of lighting to grow decent sized buds: LED, or otherwise.
Let's see if we can help bust this one right now.
That is simply not true. What you need is sufficient density of radiant energy in PAR wavelengths. And that, does not require 300W+ to obtain.
In fact, you can get decent results with 25W or less, with LED. And putting too many watts in a small area will, eventually, just hurt your overall g/w yield (same as using over 60w+/sq ft with HPS gives you diminishing returns rather quickly. Only so much plant matter will fit into any given area, lighting notwithstanding).
Here's what 17 x 1W of high-bin LEDs look like: (click to enlarge)
(22W total power)
-----
How about some numbers?
Yield: 38g total (1.39 oz)
Area: 7x13in (0.632 Sq Ft)
Strain: NL x C99
(PC Case Grow)
------------
Do that over a larger area, and that's 60.13g (2.2 oz) per Sq. Ft. Maybe a little more with a higher producing strain (or not...take a look at that first pic! Busting out more than Pamela Anderson in a string bikini!
).
Not bad, eh?
-TL
P.S. I wonder what 30 x 1W would do? :icon_cool
Good idea for a thread... PotBusters 4-2-0 (420Busters?)
----------
How about this one?
16) You need several hundred watts of lighting to grow decent sized buds: LED, or otherwise.
Let's see if we can help bust this one right now.
That is simply not true. What you need is sufficient density of radiant energy in PAR wavelengths. And that, does not require 300W+ to obtain.
In fact, you can get decent results with 25W or less, with LED. And putting too many watts in a small area will, eventually, just hurt your overall g/w yield (same as using over 60w+/sq ft with HPS gives you diminishing returns rather quickly. Only so much plant matter will fit into any given area, lighting notwithstanding).
Here's what 17 x 1W of high-bin LEDs look like: (click to enlarge)
(22W total power)
-----
How about some numbers?
Yield: 38g total (1.39 oz)
Area: 7x13in (0.632 Sq Ft)
Strain: NL x C99
(PC Case Grow)
------------
Do that over a larger area, and that's 60.13g (2.2 oz) per Sq. Ft. Maybe a little more with a higher producing strain (or not...take a look at that first pic! Busting out more than Pamela Anderson in a string bikini!
).Not bad, eh?
-TL
P.S. I wonder what 30 x 1W would do? :icon_cool
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
Since I'm a huge fan of efficiency, the above results are wonderful.
I love microgrows, and that's the coolest pc case grow I've seen.
thanks TL!
I've got a 70w digital MH ballast and bulb that I was going to use for a microgrow, but this is too cool.
Since I'm a huge fan of efficiency, the above results are wonderful.
I love microgrows, and that's the coolest pc case grow I've seen.
thanks TL!
I've got a 70w digital MH ballast and bulb that I was going to use for a microgrow, but this is too cool.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
sounds doable, although who or whom would comprise the "talent"?
If I followed the above protocol, I think I'd want to do a seed grow with a new strain first and make a fresh pile of seeds. The only strain I have hundreds of seeds of isn't one I'd want to invest that much time and effort in, but they're all from the same strain.
I don't think this myth is going to be busted or proven completely with a single generation and one grow, but I'd just be looking to add a good data point to the pool.
I wanted to combine this grow with the soil comparison, but I'm sure someone will question whether MG soil grows more males, so that screws that up, lol.
ANOVA guy too
sounds doable, although who or whom would comprise the "talent"?
If I followed the above protocol, I think I'd want to do a seed grow with a new strain first and make a fresh pile of seeds. The only strain I have hundreds of seeds of isn't one I'd want to invest that much time and effort in, but they're all from the same strain.
I don't think this myth is going to be busted or proven completely with a single generation and one grow, but I'd just be looking to add a good data point to the pool.
I wanted to combine this grow with the soil comparison, but I'm sure someone will question whether MG soil grows more males, so that screws that up, lol.
ANOVA guy too
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
So heres some facts to help all of figure this one out.
1) Plants do need sleep
2) Evolutions has changed the structure of plants, just as it done to human organisms.thankyou: Darwin)
3) Plants have developed a time-keeping mechanism, called a "Circadian Clock".
4) Circadian Clock helps to control a plants sensitivity to a hormone called auxin.
5) Auxins is a plant hormone often called phytohormone. Auxins play a vital role in alignment of many growth and behavioral processes in the structuring of a plant life cycle.
5) Plants weather they have light and or dark periods, shut down. Plant may appear to be awake, however their Circadian Clock does control Auxins, which are in place to help to ensure that plants do have a structured sleep period. This along with helping the plant to adjust to the changes of said plants environment.
Sorry to burst everyones bubbles, but nothing changes unless you set the plant into bloom. Plants will sleep in the dark or light. Their growth pattern does not change, a plant can only produce so much foliage before needing to shut down and re-energize. So even at a 24/0, 20/4, 18/6, 16/8 light schedule, the plant will shut down and start up again once he/she is ready to wake back up. Again, thats' once said plant has set a schedule for itself to survive. The only real time that we control a plant is when we feed or change the life cycle from Vegetative to Bloom. Outside of that all plants are living, they eat, breathe and grow at their own pace, not ours.
So heres some facts to help all of figure this one out.
1) Plants do need sleep
2) Evolutions has changed the structure of plants, just as it done to human organisms.
thankyou: Darwin)3) Plants have developed a time-keeping mechanism, called a "Circadian Clock".
4) Circadian Clock helps to control a plants sensitivity to a hormone called auxin.
5) Auxins is a plant hormone often called phytohormone. Auxins play a vital role in alignment of many growth and behavioral processes in the structuring of a plant life cycle.
5) Plants weather they have light and or dark periods, shut down. Plant may appear to be awake, however their Circadian Clock does control Auxins, which are in place to help to ensure that plants do have a structured sleep period. This along with helping the plant to adjust to the changes of said plants environment.
Sorry to burst everyones bubbles, but nothing changes unless you set the plant into bloom. Plants will sleep in the dark or light. Their growth pattern does not change, a plant can only produce so much foliage before needing to shut down and re-energize. So even at a 24/0, 20/4, 18/6, 16/8 light schedule, the plant will shut down and start up again once he/she is ready to wake back up. Again, thats' once said plant has set a schedule for itself to survive. The only real time that we control a plant is when we feed or change the life cycle from Vegetative to Bloom. Outside of that all plants are living, they eat, breathe and grow at their own pace, not ours.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
One thing to keep in mind is that Cannabis produces Trich's in order to reproduce. Cannabis has been around since the beginning of time, since day 1 the auxins have been helping the plant to adjust to the earths environment. As evolution would have it, Cannabis is able to stay one step ahead of most plants on this earth by producing a chemical compound known as THC(tetrahydrocannabinol) a compound that can and will catch pollen.
Marijuana's main goal in its life is not to treat pain, even though humans have figured out that it does help. However, its main goal in life is to reproduce via trich's on the plants surface, which are there just to catch pollen. This is the main goal in its life's work, as for scent it is actually a method of defense, unfortunately for Maryjane we love her perfume. So I guess, on that level we're definitely ahead of her...Well as far as we know right now
I had to explain the above in order to answer, why produce cannabinoids? CBN,CBD,THCV,CBC,CBL are all compounds that increase THC content. In turn "plumps" up the Cannabis flowers surface, covering more are to catch pollen. If you keep in mind that Cannabis wants to reproduce, this is why the above compounds are readily available. Just as old age catches up to us, it does the same to Cannabis. But what happens is that the trich's turn amber, and this is the plants version of aging. If that makes sense
One thing to keep in mind is that Cannabis produces Trich's in order to reproduce. Cannabis has been around since the beginning of time, since day 1 the auxins have been helping the plant to adjust to the earths environment. As evolution would have it, Cannabis is able to stay one step ahead of most plants on this earth by producing a chemical compound known as THC(tetrahydrocannabinol) a compound that can and will catch pollen.
Marijuana's main goal in its life is not to treat pain, even though humans have figured out that it does help. However, its main goal in life is to reproduce via trich's on the plants surface, which are there just to catch pollen. This is the main goal in its life's work, as for scent it is actually a method of defense, unfortunately for Maryjane we love her perfume. So I guess, on that level we're definitely ahead of her...Well as far as we know right now
I had to explain the above in order to answer, why produce cannabinoids? CBN,CBD,THCV,CBC,CBL are all compounds that increase THC content. In turn "plumps" up the Cannabis flowers surface, covering more are to catch pollen. If you keep in mind that Cannabis wants to reproduce, this is why the above compounds are readily available. Just as old age catches up to us, it does the same to Cannabis. But what happens is that the trich's turn amber, and this is the plants version of aging. If that makes sense
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
It's possible to catch pollen with zero THC.
All a plants needs to do that is to be sticky, and there's other sticky plants that catch pollen and have no psychoactive effects when ingested.
There is a plant on our planet that produces THC, and we are born with cannabinoid receptors in our brains.
ain't that a trip?
So, back to bel's question.
What possible benefit is there to the marijuana plant to produce THC?
Maybe it's a defense mechanism for animals who don't appreciate the buzz?
We're the only ones dumb enough to eat hot peppers, so it doesn't work for them either, lol.
The are some species of toads that secrete an alkaloid substance on their skin in response to threat that is strongly psychoactive and hallucinogenic. It's a defense mechanism against being eaten. An animal that attacks one will have a very bad trip.
We humans, on the other hand, are known to scare these toads into producing this alkaloid on their skin, and then collecting it for the psychoactive effect.
One animals poison is another man's medicine.
It's possible to catch pollen with zero THC.
All a plants needs to do that is to be sticky, and there's other sticky plants that catch pollen and have no psychoactive effects when ingested.
There is a plant on our planet that produces THC, and we are born with cannabinoid receptors in our brains.
ain't that a trip?
So, back to bel's question.
What possible benefit is there to the marijuana plant to produce THC?
Maybe it's a defense mechanism for animals who don't appreciate the buzz?
We're the only ones dumb enough to eat hot peppers, so it doesn't work for them either, lol.
The are some species of toads that secrete an alkaloid substance on their skin in response to threat that is strongly psychoactive and hallucinogenic. It's a defense mechanism against being eaten. An animal that attacks one will have a very bad trip.
We humans, on the other hand, are known to scare these toads into producing this alkaloid on their skin, and then collecting it for the psychoactive effect.
One animals poison is another man's medicine.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
Not only is raw weed NASTY tasting, it will give you one hell of a stomach ache.
I had to validate this by trying it twice.
Very reproducible based on two data points, and my research is done.
Not only is raw weed NASTY tasting, it will give you one hell of a stomach ache.
I had to validate this by trying it twice
.Very reproducible based on two data points, and my research is done
.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
As far as the day length thing goes, a plants Circadian clock wouldn't allow the adjustment. Cannabis needs at the most 13 hours of darkness. This is genetic, until we figure away to change that, you and I are smokin trying to figure a way to do it... But even though we can control Cannabis, we can't control a clock that has been wound up and set to go.
As for "dead" pollen, it is actually not "dead". I don't know if you've ever done any breeding, but its viable. As a plants trichomes dwindle and basically retract this is where pollen and trichs go hand and hand. Keep in mind that the ovule is at the base of the pistil, this is where seeds form. Trichs catch pollen, and yes it is viable, which becomes a last ditch effort to become impregnated. This along with the pollen sticking to the trich allowing it to get caught on insects that travel from flower to flower helping to keep the plant species to go on.
I've been breeding for many year, outside of the above solid research, I have is my own. Pollen can be cut with many things, honestly you should try it out. Get a female and male let the female mature, toward the end "paint" pollen on the trichs by the ovule, you can literally watch over time what happens is the cuticle of the gland dies out and the disco cell depletes. This process forces the stripe cell to breakdown. Then as the plant matures the pollen and along with the trichome will literally fall in & onto the plant. With the outreach or "plumping" of the secrectory cavity the pollen gets caught. This is when the above decision is made along with an increased chance of impregnation.
Heres another study that provides an answer to the why trichs, smell and how they help a plants in the pollination process. Great example, even flies get high
I think the above is great example of what happens with Cannabis. With the exception that Cannabis
allows Pollen to be collected not only on the pistils, but the trichomes as well. But the BEST part is the insect getting high..
As far as the day length thing goes, a plants Circadian clock wouldn't allow the adjustment. Cannabis needs at the most 13 hours of darkness. This is genetic, until we figure away to change that, you and I are smokin trying to figure a way to do it..
. But even though we can control Cannabis, we can't control a clock that has been wound up and set to go. As for "dead" pollen, it is actually not "dead". I don't know if you've ever done any breeding, but its viable. As a plants trichomes dwindle and basically retract this is where pollen and trichs go hand and hand. Keep in mind that the ovule is at the base of the pistil, this is where seeds form. Trichs catch pollen, and yes it is viable, which becomes a last ditch effort to become impregnated. This along with the pollen sticking to the trich allowing it to get caught on insects that travel from flower to flower helping to keep the plant species to go on.
I've been breeding for many year, outside of the above solid research, I have is my own. Pollen can be cut with many things, honestly you should try it out. Get a female and male let the female mature, toward the end "paint" pollen on the trichs by the ovule, you can literally watch over time what happens is the cuticle of the gland dies out and the disco cell depletes. This process forces the stripe cell to breakdown. Then as the plant matures the pollen and along with the trichome will literally fall in & onto the plant. With the outreach or "plumping" of the secrectory cavity the pollen gets caught. This is when the above decision is made along with an increased chance of impregnation.
Heres another study that provides an answer to the why trichs, smell and how they help a plants in the pollination process. Great example, even flies get high
I think the above is great example of what happens with Cannabis. With the exception that Cannabis
allows Pollen to be collected not only on the pistils, but the trichomes as well. But the BEST part is the insect getting high..
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
Well, there was about a 25-year gap between the two experiments, so hard to remember the first time, but the second time I munched a bud that was probably about 3-4 grams.
Same stomach ache it gave me 25 years earlier. That was easy to remember, lol.
How much did you munch?
b
Well, there was about a 25-year gap between the two experiments, so hard to remember the first time, but the second time I munched a bud that was probably about 3-4 grams.
Same stomach ache it gave me 25 years earlier. That was easy to remember, lol.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
been there done that Sounds like the stomach ache lasted the 25 years, if it was that distinct.
been there done that Sounds like the stomach ache lasted the 25 years, if it was that distinct.
The Lurker
New Member
(Folks, anyone besides b feel free to skip this - I'll understand)
Zzzzzz....
<poke> ....hunnnhhh....wha'? <snort> ....zzzzz... 
<prod> ....unh?...all righty, s'k, I'm up...but...need...coffee!!! Coffee, NOW!!! <slurp>...<gargle>...<gulp!>...<swallow>...ahhhhh....
Ok, that's much better...
...Wow, this thread woke up pretty fast.
Well, hello there, my Babylonian Sun God friend, whazzup? Sorry mate, I fear my time for reading threads'll be running short again pretty soon...pr'olly spend too much time doing it as it is! Real life stuff like work and all keeps intruding, dammit...looking forward to retirement one o' these days...
Hey b, best way to get my attention is via PM--! Anything else is less reliable...
Uh huh, kinda like an RFID tag...gotcha. Keep going...
And technically the cannabinoids are also terpenoids, sure. You mean, outside of certain predatory and/or protective functions as mentioned earlier?
I've got two theories on that:
1) Any partial or cross-reactive affinity we see between cannabinoids and endocannabinoids in humans is due to dumb luck. That's it - pure, blind chance. We simply lucked out when the dice were rolled.
Skimming through that monstrosity velo posted a few days back, I believe Zwenger says pretty much the same thing (~p.73 or so). I threw a link to the source here:
The Biotechnology of Cannabis Sativa
(interesting reading...if you like discussions of THC/CBD/CBN gene transfer expression into non-cannabis species for stealth, legality, and increased flower production purposes, and the like. A nascent field of research, right now...)
OR:
2) God put these plants on this Earth for us to enjoy!
Thanks, God, You ROCK!
You're a Righteous Dude. 
-------
...I'm rather partial to the second theory myself.
Don't you mean 'Where's the Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein'?
----
You do have a rather strange, wondrous sense of humor, b - which I (usually) appreciate, at least:
As well as a penchant for all three of us to be making rather obscure, early Pink Floyd references:
I've also realized why you seem to know what you're talking about:
You actually know what you're talking about--!
---
For you, it's a job - but for me, it's just an adventure! I put most of the bio stuff on the backburner except as a hobby when I went into business years ago...
You've also got a couple decades on me grow-wise (late 80's) - IMO you may be giving me a little more credit than I deserve here (thanks bro!). But I appreciate the shout-out...
Heck, I never even saw this one, don't think I was surfing the boards much after Jan:
I should really stop speaking in tongues. That's how I got kicked out of my last church--! Almost as bad as wearing a turban to a Monster Truck Rally...
Sometimes (quite often), simpler is better, I suppose...
Damn good question. Yes, I've looked though some of the studies regarding the introduction of far red at the end of the light cycle/halfway through darkness to keep/reset the Pr-->Pfr equilibrium to the left side of the equation and remain in flowering for short-day plants like Mj. Seems like you can add at least ~2hrs to the light cycle that way without ill effects (but keeping a 24 hr total cycle - i.e. 14 hrs 'on', 10 'off'). What is that, a ~17% increase in available light per diem?
(Though you're talking about simply extending the 'light/day' to a 23 hr/36 min 'on' cycle, with a standard 12 hr 'night', correct (i.e. a 35 hr/36 minute total day/night)? Haven't tried that myself yet.)
And when I'm half-asleep and not quite thinking straight, I come up with Stuff Like This:
(May send you a related link or two shortly - check your PM's.)
I haven't seen much work at all on the above, either, esp. with cannabis - those darn scientists seem to want to focus on quantifying experiments using real world conditions in an outside environment rather than inside, or tinker with the molecular synthesis in a lab, once they've proven a phenomenon to exist. Might help if they investigated the actual phenomena more sometimes.
...Been thinking about this for awhile myself, in manipulating homodimer states and photoperiodicity for increased production (either temporally and/or biomass per unit area). We're just going to have to do this ourselves, I think. Been wanting to set up my own mini-lab to be honest, just haven't the time - or space - to do so right now. A whole host of things I want to try, including laser irradiation of seeds for better germination % and growth rates, autoflowering breeding, dark-cycle LED lighting, you name it.
Wish I had more solid info on mj photoperiodicity limits myself...
------
Speaking of, here is some other 'light reading' which you may find very interesting. This pertains directly to the above also, and in keeping on topic, is our next 'Mythbusters' Myth-Conception:
Myth #17) Green Light Has Little or No Effect on Plants and Photosynthesis. (Marijuana, or otherwise)
I think we can pretty much say that's been busted. First one:
Light absorption by anthocyanins in juvenile, stressed, and senescing leaves
...and two studies regarding green light in the garden, including one of the funniest things I've ever read in a journal--!
Green Light Drives CO2 Fixation Deep within Leaves
Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green
That almost had me on the frickin' floor, dude! You know how dry those things normally are.
Quite interesting, eh? I've already decided what materials I'll be ordering...
Not sure we'll ever get density up much over existing levels (above 2 oz/sq. ft. up to ~3 in a horizontal garden; you understand the diminishing returns issue with lighting and plant density) as I don't expect to suddenly get rock-hard nugs though such manipulation of the light cycle, - but reducing flowering time, perhaps. An increase of yield per absolute time factor.
Outside, plants have to follow natural rhythms of the seasons regarding light availability, the angle of incidence/tilt of earth's axis regarding spectrum, intensity, direction of R/IR, temperature, nutrient availability and the like.
That doesn't mean we can't - or shouldn't - take full advantage of a plant's responses to these stimuli under fully controlled environmental conditions. Quite the opposite.
------
Ideally, over time we should see the introduction of PLC's/PLR's (Programmable Logic Controllers) into an LED panel with separate drivers operating different nm banks, which can be fully controlled via a panel or software/PC interface, based on either pre-programmed criteria we set - or on actual input from measurement devices.
I'd love to have a portable fluorometer to do experiments with in my (future) lab - if they weren't so damn expensive. Imagine hooking one up to the PLC light above, and changing the frequency and intensity of the LED output based on actual Pr/Pfr changes and the like. Figure out where the state saturation/equilibrium points are - and simply turn off/readjust the light when it's been reached.
(I think dogsnova would probably cream in his pants to get one of those for a PAD lighting study...)
I believe rudimentary efforts in that area may already be underway (something I may have linked to a company doing initial studies in one of (SS's?) journals several months ago, I believe...)
---------------
Speaking of flowering period - has anyone seen any effort going towards Autoflowering (cannabis) plants research-wise? What are the exact mechanisms/gene expression at work?
A true autoflowering strain will flower in all light durations, up to and including 24 hrs of continuous illumination. So crops are done from seed to harvest.
Seems like some continual cross-breeding of autoflowering varieties (cultivars) back to high producing regular strains can get us one that starts flowering around 20/4 (I believe there are strains out there that already do so), but reverts back to vegetative with continuous lighting, and still has decent biomass.
We've already seen Mdanzig's Sour 60 go from seed-to-harvest in 60 days. What if we could have a mother/clones available with 24 hrs, and flip to flowering anytime we want using 20/4, and still finish a few weeks faster? Could be useful, no?
A nice SOG is perfect for autoflowers. I've seen a few runs with updated genetics (from seed), and they're getting to be pretty damn good producers/high potency already. You could do another harvest/+ a year that way. I'm willing to try!
-----
I know you've run VHO's, b. With a possible 25 sq ft max of floorspace on gardens with Prop 19, a nice Multi-Shelf (yes, I know) becomes that much more attractive.
You could easily do six LED-lighted 2'x4' Ebb n' Flo's in a multi-shelf setup using two per 8 ft of floor area - call it ~5-6 lbs of bud every couple of months with those methods. Think that'd be enough for most patients?
Damn, gotta go cook dinner soon...we'll talk more later. Maybe we should take some if it to PM, if I have time...
Now, careful there, o Mesopotamian God of Fertility...might have to call the ASPCA (the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Auxins) on ya!
That's a good thing too, for most folks. They don't need to know how a microwave works, let alone build one, in order to nuke a Hot Pocket for lunch, either. The 'get a bucket and drill a damn hole' directions are good enough to get 'em rollin' in meds. Can't let a little thing like lack of knowledge get in the way of alleviating back pain and nausea...
And yeah, if they did (for the % who're actually interested in learning) - and the materials were more readily available, and accessible (comprehension-wise), it would do nothing if not help the cause - read my Sig. Can't wait to see what you n' Soniq are cookin' up! Canna in the kitchen--!
That's why I like it here - everyone has their own area of expertise, level of knowledge, and contribution to the whole. Good peeps.
Now, all we need is the right Critical Mass... (pun intended)
As the Chef said to the Health Inspector about the recent spate of food poisoning from his restaurant:
"Keep 'em Green"...
-TL
Zzzzzz....
<poke> ....hunnnhhh....wha'? <snort> ....zzzzz... <prod> ....unh?...all righty, s'k, I'm up...but...need...coffee!!! Coffee, NOW!!! <slurp>...<gargle>...<gulp!>...<swallow>...ahhhhh....Ok, that's much better...
...Wow, this thread woke up pretty fast.
Well, hello there, my Babylonian Sun God friend, whazzup? Sorry mate, I fear my time for reading threads'll be running short again pretty soon...pr'olly spend too much time doing it as it is! Real life stuff like work and all keeps intruding, dammit...looking forward to retirement one o' these days...
Hey b, best way to get my attention is via PM--! Anything else is less reliable...
Uh huh, kinda like an RFID tag...gotcha. Keep going...
And technically the cannabinoids are also terpenoids, sure. You mean, outside of certain predatory and/or protective functions as mentioned earlier?
I've got two theories on that:
1) Any partial or cross-reactive affinity we see between cannabinoids and endocannabinoids in humans is due to dumb luck. That's it - pure, blind chance. We simply lucked out when the dice were rolled.
Skimming through that monstrosity velo posted a few days back, I believe Zwenger says pretty much the same thing (~p.73 or so). I threw a link to the source here:
The Biotechnology of Cannabis Sativa
(interesting reading...if you like discussions of THC/CBD/CBN gene transfer expression into non-cannabis species for stealth, legality, and increased flower production purposes, and the like. A nascent field of research, right now...)
OR:
2) God put these plants on this Earth for us to enjoy!
Thanks, God, You ROCK!
You're a Righteous Dude. -------
...I'm rather partial to the second theory myself.
Don't you mean 'Where's the Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein'?
----
You do have a rather strange, wondrous sense of humor, b - which I (usually) appreciate, at least:
As well as a penchant for all three of us to be making rather obscure, early Pink Floyd references:
He's set his controls for the heart of the sun, Sun.
I've also realized why you seem to know what you're talking about:
You actually know what you're talking about--!
---
For you, it's a job - but for me, it's just an adventure!
I put most of the bio stuff on the backburner except as a hobby when I went into business years ago...You've also got a couple decades on me grow-wise (late 80's) - IMO you may be giving me a little more credit than I deserve here (thanks bro!). But I appreciate the shout-out...
Heck, I never even saw this one, don't think I was surfing the boards much after Jan:
I should really stop speaking in tongues. That's how I got kicked out of my last church--! Almost as bad as wearing a turban to a Monster Truck Rally...
Sometimes (quite often), simpler is better, I suppose...
Damn good question. Yes, I've looked though some of the studies regarding the introduction of far red at the end of the light cycle/halfway through darkness to keep/reset the Pr-->Pfr equilibrium to the left side of the equation and remain in flowering for short-day plants like Mj. Seems like you can add at least ~2hrs to the light cycle that way without ill effects (but keeping a 24 hr total cycle - i.e. 14 hrs 'on', 10 'off'). What is that, a ~17% increase in available light per diem?
(Though you're talking about simply extending the 'light/day' to a 23 hr/36 min 'on' cycle, with a standard 12 hr 'night', correct (i.e. a 35 hr/36 minute total day/night)? Haven't tried that myself yet.)
And when I'm half-asleep and not quite thinking straight, I come up with Stuff Like This:
(May send you a related link or two shortly - check your PM's.)
I haven't seen much work at all on the above, either, esp. with cannabis - those darn scientists seem to want to focus on quantifying experiments using real world conditions in an outside environment rather than inside, or tinker with the molecular synthesis in a lab, once they've proven a phenomenon to exist. Might help if they investigated the actual phenomena more sometimes.
...Been thinking about this for awhile myself, in manipulating homodimer states and photoperiodicity for increased production (either temporally and/or biomass per unit area). We're just going to have to do this ourselves, I think. Been wanting to set up my own mini-lab to be honest, just haven't the time - or space - to do so right now. A whole host of things I want to try, including laser irradiation of seeds for better germination % and growth rates, autoflowering breeding, dark-cycle LED lighting, you name it.
Wish I had more solid info on mj photoperiodicity limits myself...
------
Speaking of, here is some other 'light reading' which you may find very interesting. This pertains directly to the above also, and in keeping on topic, is our next 'Mythbusters' Myth-Conception:
Myth #17) Green Light Has Little or No Effect on Plants and Photosynthesis. (Marijuana, or otherwise)
I think we can pretty much say that's been busted. First one:
Light absorption by anthocyanins in juvenile, stressed, and senescing leaves
...and two studies regarding green light in the garden, including one of the funniest things I've ever read in a journal--!
Green Light Drives CO2 Fixation Deep within Leaves
Green Light Drives Leaf Photosynthesis More Efficiently than Red Light in Strong White Light: Revisiting the Enigmatic Question of Why Leaves are Green
That almost had me on the frickin' floor, dude!
You know how dry those things normally are.Quite interesting, eh?
I've already decided what materials I'll be ordering...Not sure we'll ever get density up much over existing levels (above 2 oz/sq. ft. up to ~3 in a horizontal garden; you understand the diminishing returns issue with lighting and plant density) as I don't expect to suddenly get rock-hard nugs though such manipulation of the light cycle, - but reducing flowering time, perhaps. An increase of yield per absolute time factor.
Outside, plants have to follow natural rhythms of the seasons regarding light availability, the angle of incidence/tilt of earth's axis regarding spectrum, intensity, direction of R/IR, temperature, nutrient availability and the like.
That doesn't mean we can't - or shouldn't - take full advantage of a plant's responses to these stimuli under fully controlled environmental conditions. Quite the opposite.
------
Ideally, over time we should see the introduction of PLC's/PLR's (Programmable Logic Controllers) into an LED panel with separate drivers operating different nm banks, which can be fully controlled via a panel or software/PC interface, based on either pre-programmed criteria we set - or on actual input from measurement devices.
I'd love to have a portable fluorometer to do experiments with in my (future) lab - if they weren't so damn expensive. Imagine hooking one up to the PLC light above, and changing the frequency and intensity of the LED output based on actual Pr/Pfr changes and the like. Figure out where the state saturation/equilibrium points are - and simply turn off/readjust the light when it's been reached.
(I think dogsnova would probably cream in his pants to get one of those for a PAD lighting study...)
I believe rudimentary efforts in that area may already be underway (something I may have linked to a company doing initial studies in one of (SS's?) journals several months ago, I believe...)
---------------
Speaking of flowering period - has anyone seen any effort going towards Autoflowering (cannabis) plants research-wise? What are the exact mechanisms/gene expression at work?
A true autoflowering strain will flower in all light durations, up to and including 24 hrs of continuous illumination. So crops are done from seed to harvest.
Seems like some continual cross-breeding of autoflowering varieties (cultivars) back to high producing regular strains can get us one that starts flowering around 20/4 (I believe there are strains out there that already do so), but reverts back to vegetative with continuous lighting, and still has decent biomass.
We've already seen Mdanzig's Sour 60 go from seed-to-harvest in 60 days. What if we could have a mother/clones available with 24 hrs, and flip to flowering anytime we want using 20/4, and still finish a few weeks faster? Could be useful, no?
A nice SOG is perfect for autoflowers. I've seen a few runs with updated genetics (from seed), and they're getting to be pretty damn good producers/high potency already. You could do another harvest/+ a year that way. I'm willing to try!
-----
I know you've run VHO's, b. With a possible 25 sq ft max of floorspace on gardens with Prop 19, a nice Multi-Shelf (yes, I know) becomes that much more attractive.
You could easily do six LED-lighted 2'x4' Ebb n' Flo's in a multi-shelf setup using two per 8 ft of floor area - call it ~5-6 lbs of bud every couple of months with those methods. Think that'd be enough for most patients?
Damn, gotta go cook dinner soon...we'll talk more later. Maybe we should take some if it to PM, if I have time...
Now, careful there, o Mesopotamian God of Fertility...might have to call the ASPCA (the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Auxins) on ya!
That's a good thing too, for most folks. They don't need to know how a microwave works, let alone build one, in order to nuke a Hot Pocket for lunch, either. The 'get a bucket and drill a damn hole' directions are good enough to get 'em rollin' in meds. Can't let a little thing like lack of knowledge get in the way of alleviating back pain and nausea...
And yeah, if they did (for the % who're actually interested in learning) - and the materials were more readily available, and accessible (comprehension-wise), it would do nothing if not help the cause - read my Sig. Can't wait to see what you n' Soniq are cookin' up! Canna in the kitchen--!
That's why I like it here - everyone has their own area of expertise, level of knowledge, and contribution to the whole. Good peeps.
Now, all we need is the right Critical Mass... (pun intended)
As the Chef said to the Health Inspector about the recent spate of food poisoning from his restaurant:
"Keep 'em Green"...
-TL
SnowBender
New Member
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports - Mythbusters
Good reading! To high to digest it all now...
Has everybody seen/read "botany of desire" yet? -Check it out.
The Botany of Desire: Based on the book by Michael Pollan | PBS
its on netflix too.
Good reading! To high to digest it all now...
Has everybody seen/read "botany of desire" yet? -Check it out.
The Botany of Desire: Based on the book by Michael Pollan | PBS
its on netflix too.
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
brotha you and I are 2 pea's in a pod thats for sure. However I am half your age and have been breeding non stop for years and years. For certain reasons I can't give details upon where and when I have done my work. Yes legal reason, I'll have to leave it at that.
Its all good, I have no issues taking your word for it.
Ok so what I am talking about may be an apple to your orange, and thats all good.
But when it comes to me and pollination along with preserving pollen, I've used trichomes dried and wet on a regular basis. One example of how I do ensure pollination is to actually dip a swollen Calyx into pollen. I then take the Calyx and set it on the pistol and leave it there. Using the "stickiness" of the Calyx to keep it in place, the pollination pretty much takes care of itself at that point. Now I've been doing this for years and was shown this by my mentor who was doing it 30+ years before even teaching me the tech. Its a solid proven method. This method works unbelievably great when working in fields where wind can and will drag pollen across the field and pollinate more then intended.
As far as scientific data on it, I HAVE NON. And to be honest, when it comes to this one, it doesn't really matter what is said. Not that I'm getting defensive, I love being able to have an intelligent conversation with you and not having drama. Cause we've seen way to much of that lately. (not form you or I ) So its all good if you don't agree, we can agree to disagree on this one. I'll be sure to document the process and then place it in my Breeding journal later. Thank you for the inspiration 
x 100 sorry my fat finger hit the r along w/ the t, I meant stipe cell almost did it again. Damn spell check
Not literally "high" but rather euphoric. When a fly drops into the sac of lady-slipper. It basically bath's in its nectar, all while attempting to crawl out. Once out the fly will act intoxicated (not high, high was just was a funnier way of putting it, we're still stoner's') I wasn't referring to the orchard, I was actually speaking of the benefits that the fly was receiving through the nectar. Where as the flower was benefiting by leaving the fly sticky enough to where the pollen sac would actually attach to the fly. Then the fly would buzz of hit another lady-slipper and pollinate it. Now this is how cannabis can and will work if necessary, not the getting the fly high part, but using the attachment of trichomes that have pollen on them in order to continue.
all I can say to this is
you are the man indeed. Nothing better then experience and the education to back it up. I definitely enjoy convo'n with you. And I agree the Lurker is definitely a great person.
Growing has been more of a part of my life then not. (if that makes sense) Until recently I started back up on the college situation. Its been nice and will continue, well... for the rest of my life. You and I are definitely on the same page, just 2 people who have drawn conclusions not only through science but through experience. You have the age along with the education of plant physiology to boot. And for this I definitely give you the respect you deserve. I on the other hand have been blessed with an above average I.Q and a cannabis mentor that taught me till the day he died.R.I.P Oldman. Unfortunately, my upbringing wasn't good enough to let me focus on education, so I had to go another route. I was taught that work is how to get ahead. Not complaining, just starting off where I originally should have. Fortunately, I am able to bypass quite a bit of pre-requisite classes to get ahead. Man o'man do I love placement testing..never lets me down. Anyhow, one day I will have that paper that justifies my words. hopefully one day we can meet and really have (((GREAT))) conversation. Keep up the good work, I look forward to not only reading your post, but picking your brain.
P.S: Lurker your hilarious!!! I love you man
brotha you and I are 2 pea's in a pod thats for sure. However I am half your age and have been breeding non stop for years and years. For certain reasons I can't give details upon where and when I have done my work. Yes legal reason, I'll have to leave it at that. Its all good, I have no issues taking your word for it.
Ok so what I am talking about may be an apple to your orange, and thats all good.
But when it comes to me and pollination along with preserving pollen, I've used trichomes dried and wet on a regular basis. One example of how I do ensure pollination is to actually dip a swollen Calyx into pollen. I then take the Calyx and set it on the pistol and leave it there. Using the "stickiness" of the Calyx to keep it in place, the pollination pretty much takes care of itself at that point. Now I've been doing this for years and was shown this by my mentor who was doing it 30+ years before even teaching me the tech. Its a solid proven method. This method works unbelievably great when working in fields where wind can and will drag pollen across the field and pollinate more then intended.
As far as scientific data on it, I HAVE NON. And to be honest, when it comes to this one, it doesn't really matter what is said. Not that I'm getting defensive, I love being able to have an intelligent conversation with you and not having drama. Cause we've seen way to much of that lately.
(not form you or I ) So its all good if you don't agree, we can agree to disagree on this one. I'll be sure to document the process and then place it in my Breeding journal later. Thank you for the inspiration x 100 sorry my fat finger hit the r along w/ the t, I meant stipe cell almost did it again. Damn spell check Not literally "high" but rather euphoric. When a fly drops into the sac of lady-slipper. It basically bath's in its nectar, all while attempting to crawl out. Once out the fly will act intoxicated (not high, high was just was a funnier way of putting it, we're still stoner's'
) I wasn't referring to the orchard, I was actually speaking of the benefits that the fly was receiving through the nectar. Where as the flower was benefiting by leaving the fly sticky enough to where the pollen sac would actually attach to the fly. Then the fly would buzz of hit another lady-slipper and pollinate it. Now this is how cannabis can and will work if necessary, not the getting the fly high part, but using the attachment of trichomes that have pollen on them in order to continue.It has been my experience that while many people know how to grow plants, not too many know how plants actually grow on the mechanical, biochemical level. I have followed your threads both the pride and the slaughter, and am extremely impressed with your growing skills, and especially your knowledge of the history and genetics of various commercially produced strains.
b
all I can say to this is
you are the man indeed. Nothing better then experience and the education to back it up. I definitely enjoy convo'n with you. And I agree the Lurker is definitely a great person. Growing has been more of a part of my life then not. (if that makes sense) Until recently I started back up on the college situation. Its been nice and will continue, well... for the rest of my life. You and I are definitely on the same page, just 2 people who have drawn conclusions not only through science but through experience. You have the age along with the education of plant physiology to boot. And for this I definitely give you the respect you deserve. I on the other hand have been blessed with an above average I.Q and a cannabis mentor that taught me till the day he died.R.I.P Oldman. Unfortunately, my upbringing wasn't good enough to let me focus on education, so I had to go another route. I was taught that work is how to get ahead. Not complaining, just starting off where I originally should have. Fortunately, I am able to bypass quite a bit of pre-requisite classes to get ahead. Man o'man do I love placement testing..never lets me down.
Anyhow, one day I will have that paper that justifies my words. hopefully one day we can meet and really have (((GREAT))) conversation. Keep up the good work, I look forward to not only reading your post, but picking your brain. P.S: Lurker your hilarious!!! I love you man
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports - Mythbusters
that farm is amazing!! I haven't seen something like that since an old guy named Paddington Bear was around on a old site. He would do that same thing. I loved his grows.
Anyhow, I'm sure you'll make the calyx thing work out. Its worked for my outdoor girls for years. And yeah its scary breeding outdoor, so many outside variables. Oldman was the best I've ever seen breed outdoors. The man never paid for a single seed. Always classic and he had one called "Glaucoma" working on that one. Just amazing smoke, to top it off he would grow thee monster an average of 15 feet. I may have some pict's if I can dig them out, never seen genetic like it before, still haven't to this day.
Glad we're all on the same team and page. Time to call it a night, may the Canna gods bless you and your crop many time over.
that farm is amazing!! I haven't seen something like that since an old guy named Paddington Bear was around on a old site. He would do that same thing. I loved his grows.
Anyhow, I'm sure you'll make the calyx thing work out. Its worked for my outdoor girls for years. And yeah its scary breeding outdoor, so many outside variables. Oldman was the best I've ever seen breed outdoors. The man never paid for a single seed. Always classic and he had one called "Glaucoma" working on that one. Just amazing smoke, to top it off he would grow thee monster an average of 15 feet. I may have some pict's if I can dig them out, never seen genetic like it before, still haven't to this day.
Glad we're all on the same team and page. Time to call it a night, may the Canna gods bless you and your crop many time over.
- Thread starter
- #36
- Thread starter
- #37
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports - Mythbusters
Man there's some big brains in this thread
Very interesting reading (curse you all in good faith for the time drain of pointing me toward knowledge I can't afford not to try to understand)
Man there's some big brains in this thread
Very interesting reading (curse you all in good faith for the time drain of pointing me toward knowledge I can't afford not to try to understand
)- Thread starter
- #38
Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports - Mythbusters
"cursed in good faith" - lol
Meaning (in jest) I hate you all for adding to my list of "must read this is good stuff"
"cursed in good faith" - lol
Meaning (in jest) I hate you all for adding to my list of "must read this is good stuff"
Chopper
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
My rats and mice both love the fallen leaves and male plants. Guinea pigs and rabbits eat it as well. I don't know that they "appreciate" it, but they do like it
Maybe it's a defense mechanism for animals who don't appreciate the buzz?
My rats and mice both love the fallen leaves and male plants. Guinea pigs and rabbits eat it as well. I don't know that they "appreciate" it, but they do like it
Purple Goose
New Member
Re: 420 Consumer Reports - Mythbusters
I can test this just started 20 seedlings and all of the tap roots came directly out of the pointy end on 10 feminized seeds and 10 regular seeds there was no difference in where the tap root emerged so Ill let ya know how many end up being male/femal/hermi out of the 20 seedlings I Started on Aug 19 check out my journal if you like.
I can test this just started 20 seedlings and all of the tap roots came directly out of the pointy end on 10 feminized seeds and 10 regular seeds there was no difference in where the tap root emerged so Ill let ya know how many end up being male/femal/hermi out of the 20 seedlings I Started on Aug 19 check out my journal if you like.