39% extraction yield RSO

[Lab Rat]

Well I don't boil it as much, you could say that's wrong but the whole point is getting rid of the solvent that you add and ethanol boils at 168-169*F so when your temperature starts climbing above that; alcohol content is greatly reduced, confirmed by a thermometer reading.

You could keep going until you get this waxy solid thing. If you want to smoke it or dab it that's the trick. Through research I've found ways to help myself but have also figured out how to get people really high if that's their thing. Not all my customers are sick and not all illnesses need lots of THC.

In my case I have a vascular mutation in my brainstem, like a tumor but more of a mass of veins so high doses of THC really don't do much on me other than get me really high. Since its not a tumor, not even benign then the anti-tumoral effects of THC are lost on me like anti-proliferative or apoptotic.

I found early on that I had to be borderline bad trip to feel any healing effects and that by reducing the THC content I could take less quantity and get the same effects so I started looking into the much dreaded and barely talked about; how to get rid of THC because in my case, for my illness, THC seemed to be running interference.

People with epilepsy or Parkinson's have found that the medication I make for myself works for them but people with cancer seem to benefit more from a 1:1. The "medicine" varies depending on the illness.

I do agree that purity is key but before focusing on purity you should try to get the most medicine out of your product and the figure out how to clean it up.

 

[Lab Rat]

I've started a new thread on polishing extracts, you can check it out here:

Polishing extracts

 

[Gfcollective]

correct me if im wrong,

but anytime you do a heat extraction, you activate the THCa and CBDa turning them into THC and CBD.
a cold extractions you leave them in their natural form of THCa and CBDa (mainly to not get the psychoactive effect)

thats the biggest difference im aware of,

Color, smell, consistency can all be altered with different temps as well

I&i


About the dirty oil, i refuse to put this stuff in my body look at it, blah

 

[Lab Rat]

THCa and CBDa converts to THC and CBD after 180*F through decarboxylation and if you watch my videos I always stay below 180*F to avoid this, with the exception of when I'm decarbing.

Cold extractions are done in the cold but then exposed to over 212*F in a rice cooker to evaporate so basically you are decarbing unintentionally. I may do hot extractions but special care is taken not to unintentionally decarb the product.

As for chlorophyll and plant waxes; what do you think is in a salad? As I have posted in a separate thread there are ways of polishing your extract but people drink coke all the time and have you seen what a coke looks like if evaporated?

Food for the thought.

 

[Gfcollective]

75% of salads (here in america) are iceburg (has no nutrients at all, 0) and if were talking the small percent of us that do eat anything other then iceburg, we do not eat it to cure cancer.

Chlorophyll, fats, and lipids are not wanted in oil. if your making it and selling, then yes you will want this.

Im pretty sure soda sells have been dropping for several years, which is why coca cola, pepsi, and others now make water, teas, and "health" drinks such as Naked that have GMO ingredients. Many, including myself drink nothing but water now-a-days
i do drink some "organic" chai (ribbious?) tea that the fiance gets me.

back in rick simpsons day, it was ok for dirty oil and to u "naptha" [dear jah] but since then we have learned through trial and error what is best for the body. In 420motoco thread you will see several, several patients that were using a dirty oil, started taking his advice, and their white blood cells started climbing, their cancer/tumor cells quit growing, and their doctors were left speechless. i have taken care of 4 patients in the last year, i only have one that is still coming to me for help the others have been able to manage them selves, with a little help of some clones i gave them.

Dirty oil may work for some that are not as bad as others, but if your stage 4. you need the healthiest process.

on your other thread, i read those exact points the other day on a website googling how to make a essential oil distiller. which is good to see them brought to this website, but if you read through the very detailed website i found on the same facts you will read that a Steam distillation method is the healthiest, truest essential oil. i can copy and paste it here or your other thread if youd like.

i plan to be buying myself a steam distiller this next year, theyre only 400$ too.

I&i

 

[Kola320]

Gfcolletive I sent you a PM was wondering if you could give me some advice ?

 

[CajunCelt]

I agree with GFC.
If you're making money, bio crap might be fine, but for true medicine...purity.

You ever get meds from a hospital with gunk in it or some cloudy murky stuff in a doctor's syringe?

I'd run.

 

[Gfcollective]

I agree with GFC.
If you're making money, bio crap might be fine, but for true medicine...purity.

You ever get meds from a hospital with gunk in it or some cloudy murky stuff in a doctor's syringe?

I'd run.

id run as well and find one that took the necessary steps to get me the contents i need and not the contents my body can live with.. yes the fats and lipids wont hurt you, but they dont benefit you other then from a sellers point. me being part of a shop, i can honestly tell you this. i myself when we get cancer patients, take them off to the side and make my own oil for them. the kids my age that come in here just looking to get "high" they dont care what their oil looks like.

i recall the head volunteer here, when i use to make the oil for the shop saying "why do you use coffee filters, that takes to much weight out, go get a brass metal screen and use that"

which is what his old extractor use to do, but the year that i made the oil for the shop we had no complains about taste, or impurity. now that ive stopped the last 3 months trying to find another vendor for oil has been insane, its all garbage that comes in here. it kills me to see it but if i get a true cancer patient in here ill risk making it for them.

now my process involves winterization which i cant see myself going away from i will be adding lab grade filters at different micron levels, until i get the steam distiller.

I&i

 

[CajunCelt]

Nice to meet a person who gives a crap.
Well done.

If you check the labs on my oil from the other thread, you'll see I make the cleanest most potent oil I can without a huge step up in equipment.

Lab Rat, you ever checked out the Skunk folk's extraction kits? Awesome stuff, but $1,500. You'd be a madman with that I bet.

 

[Gfcollective]

I'll check that out in a few hours at shop caj. I will pm u with a link on the cleanest solvent I was recently made aware of. I just told fiance about the essential oil distiller, she's excited to make several essential oils

I&I

 

[BioEng]

Hi, i'm very new here, and this thread was really fun to read through. I have to second Lab Rat's opinion/question: As far as i know (biochem engineer here), there's no toxicity or issues with having waxes and chlorophyll in your final oil. It looks nasty, and if a patient were to have a condition in which his/her stomach is delicate then the chlorophyll might be a little tough on them, but besides this, i've been searching a lot to find some hard evidence that these components could affect the absorption/effect of the cannabis, but i have to say i've failed so far.
This is kind of a big deal for me, since i'm starting my first grow for my dad that has parkinson's, and since i'm also a eng., i take recovery efficiency very seriously (i don't have the space or money to grow SO much at the same time, so i wanna make sure i do the best i can extracting it).
The problem, as Lab Rat himself said, is that to see if his multi-run ethanol method is actually extracting more cannabinoids than a regular cold wash or BHO, and not just more weight in waxes/chlorophyll. I wonder, can you get one of those online cannabinoid test kits? They seem all right for a direct comparison, maybe not that great for exact amounts but good enough.

Also, question for Lab Rat or anyone else using ethanol in a hot extraction: Anyone else tried using a closed filter system to recover the ethanol? I'm guessing a metal filter could do the trick (i'm thinking cheap here, a distillation system would do as well but that requieres a few more things).

 

[Lab Rat]

Nice, a biochemist.
With my dad having done organic extractions at an industrial scale for the tannery industry, he already knew how to improve yields. My illness is slowly killing me and there's nothing (other than risky brain surgery) to take so I'm very serious about this, more than a lot of people who are just here to get high so if you intend to prove your point you better bring some science.

It's quite obvious that challenging the status quo is not a very popular thing to do and no one seems to have definitive information on why chlorophyll or plant waxes are so bad other than the darker color or stronger taste. I would love if a cold wash supporter would do a before and after test on their product to see how much "medicine" is left behind. Maybe I'm just getting more crud out of it but not really any more medicine but alas no one is that interested to prove me wrong.

From a chemical stand point this process is the most thorough as it leaves nothing behind. There are ways to clean up your oil which are discussed in this thread:

Polishing extracts

I've thought about creating a homemade still using surgical hose, a glue gun, copper tubing and a large PVC pipe. This would enable you to condensate your alcohol vapors in order to re-use the solvent, it would also make the evaporation process safer and less stinky. With an evaporation temperature of 168.8*F it wouldn't take water that cold to condense the alcohol.

I you want to pick my brain we can skype.

 

[Gfcollective]

I look forward to see ur process play out like 420motoco has. That's why his is favored, we've had several members here drastically change side effects using his methods. Hope that explains why it's favored, we've all watched it work.

About the fats wax and lipid topic, they serve no medical benifits as we are aware of with current studys out right now is why it's not wanted in the oil. Not because it's bad for you, it's just added weight that's not needed (as we are aware of right now)

Kind of like if u need a cup full of 100% Water with no contaminents. But then you start poring in contaminents and u now have 95% water. And if ur drinking it for medicine, u want 100%. Now study change that's what I love of science. I'm sorry I'm not a biogenius but I care about my patients and i take this very seriouse.

I&I

Edit : I use to make regular bho till a member told me I could do it better with winterized. He changed my ways, u can do the same just try not to insult people here for not knowing all

 

[BioEng]

Nice, a biochemist.
With my dad having done organic extractions at an industrial scale for the tannery industry, he already knew how to improve yields. My illness is slowly killing me and there's nothing (other than risky brain surgery) to take so I'm very serious about this, more than a lot of people who are just here to get high so if you intend to prove your point you better bring some science.

It's quite obvious that challenging the status quo is not a very popular thing to do and no one seems to have definitive information on why chlorophyll or plant waxes are so bad other than the darker color or stronger taste. I would love if a cold wash supporter would do a before and after test on their product to see how much "medicine" is left behind. Maybe I'm just getting more crud out of it but not really any more medicine but alas no one is that interested to prove me wrong.

From a chemical stand point this process is the most thorough as it leaves nothing behind. There are ways to clean up your oil which are discussed in this thread:

Polishing extracts

I've thought about creating a homemade still using surgical hose, a glue gun, copper tubing and a large PVC pipe. This would enable you to condensate your alcohol vapors in order to re-use the solvent, it would also make the evaporation process safer and less stinky. With an evaporation temperature of 168.8*F it wouldn't take water that cold to condense the alcohol.

I you want to pick my brain we can skype.

Sure, my skype name is rjavierv, or post yours and i can add you.

So, on the matter of the waxes/clorophyll: I completely understand your point gfcollective, if i get to choose of course i want the clean pretty oil. My point is this: If by using a method that gives me "dirty" oil, but with a significantly higher cannabinoid concentration, it's better than a clean oil method with lower percentages. That's really all. But the only way to test this is by running some of those cannabinoid test kits, or having access to a gc/ms.

But, only using my academic knowledge of how purification and extraction works, it is VERY normal that you need multiple runs to get a decent extraction. Of course, normally their efficiency lowers exponentially, but it is quite normal for me to need at least 3 runs to make a simple purification of some sort. It usually comes down on how expensive/level of purity is your product.

 

[Lab Rat]

I've sent you a skype invite.

Motocco's method works fine, variation comes with a different decarboxylation profile and a different dosing method but without proper lab testing you might be leaving medicine behind and if you have limited access to weed you will want to maximize your medicine extraction and then worry about cleaning it up.

 

[CajunCelt]

Actually, since I too am dying (stage 4 colon cancer), I'm VERY interested in getting both methods tested. It's NOT free my friend, nor cheap.

I want to add that I'm very open-minded myself to absolutely anything that improves the medicine. I didn't invent any of this, so I have zero intellectual/emotional issues involved.
It's not an "us vs. them" thing. It's just that some of us have been doing this awhile & have witnessed great results. You seem to feel this issue is secluded to this thread. It's not. Professional experienced extractors have been testing, comparing, improving, etc. these means & methods for years. I personally have had my product tested & posted the results here. As mentioned, it's not cheap, but I'd love to test/compare the 2 methods.
If a hot extraction produces better results, I can promise that I will be among the first to adapt it.
Lastly, as I mentioned, some members here have been doing this quite awhile & have seen/heard stories of both successes & failures. We work with folks who do this as a living & have no investment in a particular method, just results.
I'm sorry to hear about your health too. I sincerely hope you get clear & healthy Lab Rat.

 

[c526]

nice read growers,as someone who is stopping all extractions and going to rso,I will have some questions in the coming weeks

 

[Lab Rat]

Cajuncelt, I am aware of your medical situation and I think its in our best interest to get more per extraction. I'll try to film my next extraction and after focusing on high yield I will do everything in my power to clean it up. I've read that you can go from dark green/black to an amber/maple syrup color with the proper tricks.

We'll see if that's possible and how much of a hit you take on your yield from cleaning it up so much but if you get 40% dirty and loose half by cleaning it up and end up with 20% clean; well that's still quite good.

The only thing I'm sure about is that my method is the most thorough, I just have a problem with people who think they own the truth.

Theoretically if you clean up your oil properly you could go ahead and decarb the oil instead of the product and then dose it in any way you wish. I do know that ingested takes quite a long time to get absorbed and perhaps some of it just keeps going through like corn from corn on the cob.

 

[CajunCelt]

Thanks Lab Rat. I've know of 2 others using your preferred method. There's a term that escape me that is used for this (the membrane & ice). Both of these guys make oil for a living, but use a closed loop extractor. I'll pick your brain to get this method down as well as theirs. One thing is that they both use a rubber "lid" to put the ice on over the container. Is there a reason for that?
I'll be making it this weekend. I can't get anything tested (I'm broke) for awhile.

 

[Lab Rat]

Well the membrane and the ice just promotes condensation and condensation does create vacuum so perhaps a thicker material would be safer or easier to use.

I've been doing this for a little over a year and mostly for myself; I've just been lucky enough to have a chemist dad who has helped but heck I used to be a pilot before I got sick. I just experimented with weed in my teens so I'm not really knowledgeable on most aspects.

According to my estimates I should be making oil for my cancer customer in 5-6 weeks and I already convinced his son to try clean oil so in that time I should have some sort of video up. Lets hope I'm still around and so are you.

As for the hot extraction, I originally got the idea from this video:


I just modified the time and temps and do it several times, also these guys don't decarb.