Re: 420 Cannasumer Reports Competition - GrowLEDHydro 300w LED vs. 400w HID
Now we're talkin'! Plants're startin' to shape up in those tents,
SS. 'Twas nearly a year ago (well, it will be in two more months, or thereabouts) that the last competition set sail for uncharted territory...Navigator, time again to break out that compass, sextant, and astrolabe, if you please! By the light of the sun, moon, and stars shall we guide thee, darling vessel, under yon heavens...
BTW, anyone know why we went from 'Consumer' to 'Cannasumer'? Was that just a clever marketing thing - or are we trying to avoid future lawsuits with a well-known public product testing magazine?
^^^^
Post of the Year, Lurker!
I have to say I love the CRF / TRF discussion - DocBud, IrishBoy, SS, The Lurker... you guys ROCK!
Thanks guys! The real proof of course will be in the actual results that occur in the gardens being run right here by folks we know. Some very good stuff going on with these particular trials. Rather nice strain, nute and temp-specific info being done that will be available for future reference.
The only problem with smaller meals of CRF's throughout the grow is that a grower would have to top-dress the smaller meals, and that is a significantly less efficient way to deliver CRF nutes than incorporating them evenly into the medium at the get-go. I suspect that any advantage from the smaller meals may be negated by the less consistent delivery of nutes secondary to top-dressing.
The upper layer of most media, especially soilless media, is not a hospitable place for prills...
In dirt, top dressing works better than in most soilless media because dirt retains water better, but it will work even better in dirt when incorporated evenly into the mix.
Temperature and moisture levels fluctuate much more at the surface layer of *any* media.
One middle-ground solution is to poke some deep holes into the medium with something like a sharpened 1/2" dowel and sprinkle the prills down in there. It doesn't incorporate them evenly into the mix, which seems to give the best results, but it does get them down into more stable temps and moisture levels. That method is working very well for a couple of mother plants that I wanted to use CRF's on.
Agreed, with CRFs that choose to cooperate in the temps you're runnin'. Yep, dry nutes don't do much, either...
Funny you should mention that...I was browsing a few weeks back for something that would fit that 'middle ground' perfectly; there was a low-rent version with fewer holes I found on amazon, but then I ran across
these:
Deep Drip Shrub & Tree Watering Stakes:
The 14 ½ inch unit is perfect for small trees and shrubs with shallow roots, like rose bushes, ornamental trees, or in commercial use for trees still in boxes. They are also great for hanging tomato plants, strawberry pots, large container pots, and to ensure a small new tree gets water to the root ball to ensure its survival in its first year...
There are multiple holes in the bottom half of the spike, internally covered by a mesh filter that allows water to flow out, but keeps dirt from getting in, settling, and clogging the tube. The UV protected cap has multiple functions, as it acts as a protective/reinforced cover when hammering in to the ground, keeps rocks and leaves from entering the shaft, and holds the ¼ inch drip line securely in place...
Whether you connect it to a drip line or use it with a garden hose, Deep Drip is one of the most effective devices to get water, oxygen, and fertilizer to your tree's roots quickly and efficiently.
Deep Drip will conserve water as 100% of the water directed to the tree is going deep into the ground, without losing any water to evaporation or run-off. And the internal filter keeps dirt and rock from entering the device...
Fertilizer can be fed into the shaft, having water pass through the granules and carry the nutrients into the soil and directly to the roots, thus promoting a healthier tree and root system. Water soluble fertilizers are recommended. Fertilizing within Deep Drip, instead of through an emitter, guards against clogged emitters or tubing, with no waste.
Cool, eh? Check out the notes/FAQ, some good info there. While we're not necessarily having to contend with huge trees and clay-based soils here, the same principles apply. A few of these in three gallon pots might provide an effective 'middle ground', no?
I like the fact that you can use it to get a
quasi-permanent shaft directly to the root zone, without further disrupting the rooting system, that you can feed with CRFs and water directly (either by hand into the shaft, or by drip/hose) - and if temps get too hot and over-fertilization occurs, simply remove (or take out an internal (permeable) sheath you could also insert inside to hold ferts) and adjust as necessary. Even insert a drip line at the surface and/or in the stake, and take care of both watering zones... (though with a coco Hempy, less of an issue...still, couldn't hurt)
Speaking of auto-watering, and reading about
Munki's test runs trying to get the new drip lines/emitters dialed in (tricky little suckers!), I found this from the 'Masters of Water' at
Claber:
It's a (vacation) auto-watering drip system (designed to feed houseplants) that runs off one 9V battery for about a year, and can run from 1-20 drip lines with highly accurate flow rates up to ~4oz/day per dripper (i.e. ~81 oz (2.5 liters) per day max). A 6.6 gal reservoir holds water - or nutrient solution.
There's actually more sales info on other sites than in the manufacturer's description, such as
Amazon,
Drip Depot and
Mr. Drip. Prices seem to run in the low $70's.
(Drip Depot has a video of it in operation in the 'Product Links' box)
While a max of 4 oz/dripper isn't exactly a torrent (it's meant for house plants, after all) - if you have, let's say, just 4 plants - that's a good five drippers per plant (20 oz/day) that you can feed. With the lower transpiration rates under LED, and good moisture retention from something like coco, that's plenty for maintenance watering - unless you've got really big plants.
As for vacations: if you water the plants really well right before taking off, and stick the system on a 30 day timer set to go on ~3-4 days
after you leave, you might actually get a good
two weeks out of the system on max drip, using all emitters.
Combine that with a few tree stakes, and the combo appears to be virtually stoner-proof.
Butt-simple, as
Gator would say - I
love that term!
I've read several articles stating that a 3-1-2 NPK ratio is optimal in general for most plants, and that analysis of foliage typically shows that NPK is stored in plant tissue in that approximate ratio. I'd have to look for the cites, but I've read that in more than one place.
That's why I'm currently using the Dynamite purple, which is 15-5-9. My thinking on that, which is very open to learning and change, is that I'd rather have an optimal NPK ratio (generally speaking) and be less concerned over the micros, since I can compensate for that easily with supplements versus having to fix NPK issues.
Understood. (Glad that you're open to change, too - always a good character trait to have)
The nutrient ratios that get fixed within plant tissues notwithstanding, one thing that's probably worth mentioning here is that, in soil and soil-like soilless mixes especially, the availability of Phosphorus to plants is
much lower than what you actually feed them, for several reasons:
Phosphorus Uptake by Plants: From Soil to Cell (Plant Physiology)
(Direct PDF):
Phosphorus Uptake by Plants: From Soil to Cell -- Schachtman et al. 116 (2): 447 -- PLANT PHYSIOLOGY
After N, P is the second most frequently limiting macronutrient for plant growth...
Although the total amount of P in the soil may be high, it is often present in unavailable forms or in forms that are only available outside of the rhizosphere...the recovery of applied P by crop plants in a growing season is very low, because in the soil more than 80% of the P becomes immobile and unavailable for plant uptake because of adsorption, precipitation, or conversion to the organic form...
In the absence of available P, plants respond by sending out roots and cannibalizing existing structures (below). Note that in cases of excess P, plants also have a number of mechanisms to prevent toxicity...
When the supply of Pi is limited, plants grow more roots, increase the rate of uptake by roots from the soil, retranslocate Pi from older leaves, and deplete the vacuolar stores of Pi. In addition, mycorrhizal fungi may more extensively colonize the roots. Conversely, when plants have an adequate supply of Pi and are absorbing it at rates that exceed demand, a number of processes act to prevent the accumulation of toxic Pi concentrations. These processes include the conversion of Pi into organic storage compounds (e.g. phytic acid), a reduction in the Pi uptake rate from the outside solution (Lee et al., 1990), and Pi loss by efflux, which can be between 8 and 70% of the influx (Bieleski and Ferguson, 1983). Any or all of these processes may be strategies for the maintenance of intracellular Pi homeostasis.
That's also one reason why large, well-known agricultural universities like Ohio State and Texas A&M still advocate more P in crop fertilization treatment regimens. P is a limiting factor - better to
have more and not need it, than need it and not have it.
The general availability of P near the root zone is depleted quickly - and, by and large, doesn't get replaced. Roots either have to grow out looking for more (bioavailable) P, or they have to get fed. And the stuff you do feed tends to get locked up...
-------
Also, in soil, symbiotic organisms play a
huge role:
There is a general perception that Pi uptake by plants occurs as a direct consequence of uptake from the soil by root cells. However, in more than 90% of land plants, symbiotic associations are formed with mycorrhizal fungi. In these plants the fungal hyphae play an important role in the acquisition of P for the plant...
Actual root uptake mechanisms and symbiosis with mycorrhizae have been rather poorly understood until fairly recently; newer studies seem to reinforce their importance though, such as this one from just this past August:
A Phosphate Transporter from the Root Endophytic Fungus Piriformospora indica Plays a Role in Phosphate Transport to the Host Plant
In
true (NFT, DWC, Ebb/Flow, etc.) hydroponics, in general, plants absorb nutrients with a much different (better) efficiency than in soil/soil-like mediums, so the ratio of nutrients required in solution vs. soil is adjusted accordingly. (One reason why I like them so much, even if it can be higher maintenance overall)
In soil, (outside of Nitrogen), due to the dynamics of feeding and bioavailability (both with P, and K also, which leeches faster than I'd like), I'm more inclined to go with something closer to an
all-purpose ratio - or even slightly higher in P - even when one's using containers over true outside (bed/row) gardening.
I'd note that the CRFs tend to dump more N early anyway, so a ~13-13-13 mix'll dump enough for the veg period just fine - depending on how long your full cycle is.
Ya gotta actually get that P into the plant first! Just my 0.02.
(3-1-2 should work *ok* for veg - and lawns at least seem to love it.
)
There are few hills I would choose to die on today, and a hill of fertilizer certainly isn't one of them
I used to be in Marketing...I know all about big steaming piles of fertilizer--!
(and hot air)
Hey, that's
my job--!
(And I'm piss poor at it, too, it seems...right OBX?)
I haven't decided which team I'm on, the LED or HID team. Perhaps I'll just remain neutral and enjoy the grow?
Hell, where's the fun in that?
Setting Sun is blazing trails here...
He Rode a Blazing Saddle
He Wore a Shining Star...
Not to mention the nudity!
Self-portrait?
(Thought your third eye'd be up a little
higher...)
<Namaste>
in the bigger picture you're
a King, my hippie friend
^^^^^
(
B At The Beach?)
The benefits of bare vertical bulbs, both from heat management and light energy, are very significant and very worth pursuing.
I'm a believer, but yes, keeping things more or less conventional for *now*.
Darn tootin'. Even the best horizontal reflectors'll lose you ~35-40% of the total radiant energy emitted from the bulb.
That means that when you take the reflector
off, you
gain back around ~60-65%! Put a vertical fan on it and there's your TM.
If that doesn't put a vertical smile on your face, I don't know what will...
<wink>
I'll be standing on the shoulders of Gators
.
Jus' make sure they don't snap at your feet--!
[my favs Quicksilver Messenger Service
I take it you're referring to the first two albums only - and more specifically the second, correct? That true SF sound...
Check out the pupils on that 'girl', she must like jets.
First thing I look(ed) for at a Dead concert.
(the girls, that is...
then the pupils)
...Seven hours later, driving home on the freeway at 3am, with just a few red tail lights ahead of you in the distance, Union Metal and Millerbernd street lights running towards the horizon in majestic columns as far as the eye can see - and in those moments when you cease concentrating fully and choose to 'fade' for just a bit, sinking back into a slight warmth running up your spine...
feel like you're driving right up into the heavens themselves.
(sigh)
-TL
peeps!
