1st Grow: Indoor Tent, 250W MH/HPS, DWC Hydro, 2'x2' ScrOG

[usul]

Still Learning...

Wanted to get an update posted - things have been... interesting.

I had high hopes the new water and Dutch Master Zone (DMZ) treatment would solve my bacterial issues once and for all, but no such luck. After smooth sailing for 6 days suddenly the pH started jumping up and the Red Slime was back. I drained the res, gave things a light cleaning (i.e. cleaned in place with a strong H2O2 solution) then refilled the res using DMZ at maximum strength. Three days later the problem started coming back - only slightly, but I'm now an expert at what to look for and I could see things would go down hill fast. DMZ appears completely useless for my application even though the supplier I bought it from promoted it as the strongest product they had. So it's back to the devil I know: Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2). The more research I do the more I've come to believe it is both the only thing that works (without killing the plants) and provides a host of benefits as well - so long as it is correctly applied. We shall see.

Anyway, I cleaned out the res again and am now running with quarter strength nutes and maximum strength H2O2: 10ml/gal for the res change and if things look good I'll add 2.5ml/gal daily.

Here's a pic of the girls, 8 days old:

Vegatative growth is slightly slower than the previous round - might be due to the different strain, or it could be due to the DMZ (I think it's the DMZ). Pebbles is currently leading the pack with Wilma a close second. Betty is lagging but has shown some strong root growth today so she may be a late bloomer. I expect the plants will be stressed by the sudden change to H2O2 - I'll know more tomorrow morning.

 

[Stealthy1]

Thats to bad usul... bacteria and algae can be hard to completely annihilate...
Maybe you should start looking for another cause of the problem.
How many air stones do you have and what size air pump are you using. Bacteria dont like O2 so maybe there are some stagnant areas in your rez...
When you cleaned last did you soak you air stones in h202? they are very porous and can hold onto bacteria and algae just like people sometimes use a sponge infused with good bacteria.
Another thing you can do if you got the money whcih you seem to lol is goto the pet store and get a UV filter and a pump the smallest one they have will be more than enough a small 100gph pump is good enough (rule of thumb is to circulate entire contents of rez twice an hour) that will your water crystal clear.
but before you do that you might want to check if germicidal uv will affect your nute solution.
Good luck

 

[Stealthy1]

hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=4QftE_Y3B2YC&pg=PT159&lpg=PT159&dq=UV+filter+in+hydroponic+reservoir&source=bl&ots=dMIsYo3hk7&sig=IqAW8lMoVLxaEEacjG5psL6Mlq4&hl=en&ei=dxUdS924HIjKlAeV78HyCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=&f=true

Man its hard not to paste a link when it automatically does it lol anyways this is link to a page in a book on the subject just changed the http to hxxp saw someone else do that before. you can copy and paste just change the xx tt

 

[Michael Hunt]

Usul, Sounds like your on the right track, I too am trying to get all of the bugs worked out of my newly built DWC. I will deffinately be following yours until the end. Hopefully i can learn some helpful tricks or secrets along the way. H2o2 Is amazing stuff

 

[usul]

Thanks Stealthy - it is a crazy thing I've got going on here. I'm using two 5 inch airstones and a pretty good sized pump - not sure what it's rated at but it was the largest dual output pump the pet store had. I know what you mean about them holding on to bacteria so I installed brand new airstones at the beginning of this grow. At the last cleaning I soaked them in H2O2.

I might look in to getting a larger air pump, and I really like the idea of the UV filter. Thanks! I'll do some research on that.

Anyway, I checked the plants this morning and they're all very happy. Many new roots have appeared since the res change yesterday afternoon - the roots on one of the plants literally doubled in size overnight. So, I'm happy with the initial results - we'll see how things go this week.

 

[usul]

Hey Mike, thanks for stopping by! Good luck with your setup - let me know if you start a journal, I'd like to follow along. In the meantime, I hope my crazy ride is of some help.

Thanks for the link Stealthy. I took your advice and did a little research on what such a filter might do to the nutrient solution. I found two scientific papers that said:

- UV filter is effective for most bacterial and fungal infections, but not Pythium (root rot)

- UV filter reduces some micronutrients by up to 20%

- and worst of all, the UV filter removes 100% of the iron in the nutrient solution.

I think I'll sit tight with H2O2 for now

 

[Stealthy1]

Ah too bad... sounded good for a minute. glad I put a disclaimer after that one lol
Yes it kills Pythium but the problem seems to be when its infiltrated the roots the UV sterilizes the water so it doesnt help the plant thats infected. but that couple with its effect on iron definitely rules it out I guess.

 

[usul]

Okay, here's the latest... We've been on the H2O2 program for 3 days now and so far so good. The smallest plant, Betty, was showing just a hint of burn at the very tip of her leaves which told me I'd hit the maximum dosage. I've reduced the daily application from 2.5 to 1.5ml/gal and everyone looks happy. In fact, Betty has really perked up and is now giving Wilma a run for her money.

Here's a pic of the plants at 11 days old:

Wilma and Betty are neck and neck growth-wise with Pebbles pulling way out in the lead. It's crazy that she's the biggest plant because she was also the last to germinate.

pH is very stable at 5.8
Res temp is nice and low

 

[Stealthy1]

Let the races begin....

Are you going to stagger the pots later? might get crowded in there.

 

[usul]

Thanks Man - I am SO looking forward to it getting crowded in there! Yes, I'll move the pots around before the roots get too big to make it a problem. I was thinking of doing a two-plant grow but given that all three are doing well I'll probably keep them all growing, fill the screen faster and be able to start flowering sooner. I'm planning to install the screen at 12 to 14 inches and wonder if I'll be able to start flowering by the new year. We shall see...

 

[BassBong]

I like your setup. Good luck with your new grow. I hope they take well. I will be watching as this was a setup I was trying myself and switched back to dirt.

 

[ultrasonic]

You'll have some fat plants soon usul, I feel it! Lord know you deserve it after all your hard work


Any slime monster updates?

ps- Just wondering if it's cool with you if I put a link to your grow in my signature?

 

[usul]

I like your setup. Good luck with your new grow. I hope they take well. I will be watching as this was a setup I was trying myself and switched back to dirt.

Hey Bass, thanks for checking in. I can totally relate - DWC hydro can be very twitchy. I've thought about switching to dirt more than a few times but the idea of making this work is compelling. I'm going to give it my all. So far, the magic pill seems to be hydrogen peroxide. Time will tell.

You'll have some fat plants soon usul, I feel it! Lord knows you deserve it after all your hard work


Any slime monster updates?

ps- Just wondering if it's cool with you if I put a link to your grow in my signature?

Thanks So Much for your support Ultra. No sign of the Slime and other bad guys... so far. pH is very stable and the nutes are crystal clear. I'm sure it's the H2O2 that's doing the trick. And the plants seem to love it - root growth exploded since I switched over. I won't declair victory until Sunday - that'll be one week since the last res change. If the bacteria stays under control until then I'll change the res, up the nutes and open a bottle of champagne.

I would be more than honored if you included a link to my journal in your signature

 

[usul]

Quick update: tiny chunks of the white snot have been spotted in the res and the water is getting coudy again. Looks like backing off on the H2O2 was a bad idea. I've given it an emergency dose of 1.5ml/gal and will hit it with the maximum dose of 2.5ml/gal first thing in the morning.

That said, the plants are looking good. Comparing this grow to my previous effort I am way ahead. By Day 12 last time I'd lost one plant and had another on its last legs (and lost it two days later). At the same point on this grow I have three healthy plants with roots going crazy. While I'd prefer to have a perfectly clean res (I'm something of a clean freak) I am coming to realize I may need to accept less than perfect nutrient conditions so long as I'm able to maintain healthy plants. Hell, I'd be happy with a res full of tar if it grew me big dank buds.

Should be interesting to see how things look tomorrow morning...

 

[ultrasonic]

Quick update: tiny chunks of the white snot have been spotted in the res and the water is getting coudy again. Looks like backing off on the H2O2 was a bad idea. I've given it an emergency dose of 1.5ml/gal and will hit it with the maximum dose of 2.5ml/gal first thing in the morning.

That said, the plants are looking good. Comparing this grow to my previous effort I am way ahead. By Day 12 last time I'd lost one plant and had another on its last legs (and lost it two days later). At the same point on this grow I have three healthy plants with roots going crazy. While I'd prefer to have a perfectly clean res (I'm something of a clean freak) I am coming to realize I may need to accept less than perfect nutrient conditions so long as I'm able to maintain healthy plants. Hell, I'd be happy with a res full of tar if it grew me big dank buds.

Should be interesting to see how things look tomorrow morning...

I think the problem could be because you don't have enough nutrient solution. My bins are pretty standard, 18gal, and you had what... 6? I know my mother plant was drinking 1 gallon steady a day under CFLS, just in veg. 3 plants would, presumably, drink 3 gallons, which is half your entire res

Perhaps that's something to consider- good things can be done with fewer plants: I'd get you to check out a grow done by a guy named Rumpleforeskin on another forum (i think grasscity). He found that by growing in his SCROG 1 plant instead of 2, he could almost match what he produced with 2.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I keep thinking about it: is there any way you can fit a bigger tub in there? Rubbermaid Roughneck is the way to go: they won't bulge out and burst.

lemme know what you think. ps: rumple had also mentioned that after installing a 5 micron filter (like you find in an RO system) in line with his circulation pump, he significantly reduced the amount of floating debris and plant matter in his bins. Maybe this could be a solution is some way as well.




+ luck and reps whenever I can

 

[usul]

Excellent advice Ultra. I'll look around for a larger bin, though I doubt I could increase the size by much - maybe up to 8 or 10 gallons at the very most. And I've come to the same conclusion about the number of plants - definitely planning to reduce it down to two plants or maybe just one. I've also started looking in to a filter of some kind - great minds think alike

Anyway, as of this morning the white jelly-like snot is still apparent so I gave it a maximum dose of H2O2 and it'll get another one in 12 hours. We'll see how that works. I'm not is dire straights yet - pH is good and relatively stable, and the plants are doing well - so I'm going to just keep on rolling with it. We're due for a res change in a could days so I might do it a little early. More soon...

 

[usul]

Here's the latest - sorry to say there's not much good news. Yesterday morning I noticed the res was getting a bit cloudy so I upped the H2O2 application. When I got home from work 8 hours later the water was virtually opaque. The overwhelming growth of white jelly-like bacteria was both impressive and horrifying. I've cleaned things up and changed the res so we're looking okay nute-wise, but what had been a healthy and thriving root system is now looking very sad. The foliage is still looking good, as you can see in this pic of the plants at 14 days old:

Some new root growth has been detected, and I'm going to keep up with the maximum H2O2 application for the foreseeable future, so there may be hope. I'm also going to try using Hygrozyme and see if that helps. But I've gotta say, I'm getting near the end of my rope with hydroponics. I've been incredibly neat, precise and almost operating-room sterile with my handling of things but it's not good enough. I'm obviously doing something wrong, but I've no idea what it might be or how to fix it.

When I got to this point of total desparation in my previous attempt everything seemed to start going right. That might happen this time as well so I'll hang in there for another week or two.

By the way, Setting Sun is doing a new grow: a hosted competition between two different LED light arrays. He's doing a great job documenting everything and it is very interesting to watch! He's very well set up, clearly knows what he's doing and, hmmm, he's growing in soil... The journal is getting new hits hourly so it'll be near the top of the list on the Ongoing Journals page. If you're not already subscribed I'd highly recommend checking it out!

 

[Stealthy1]

Hang in there man if you get hygrrozyme Im pretty sure h202 will kill it.

 

[usul]

if you get hygrrozyme Im pretty sure h202 will kill it.

I thought the same thing, but reading the Hygrozyme info sheet it specifically states that Hygrozyme is compatible for use with H2O2. Hmmm. I assume that's because the active ingredients are enzymes rather than microbes, so it kinda makes sense. Assuming I can keep this grow going I'll try it both ways and see if I notice any difference.

Just checked the res and two days after replacing the nutes the water is clouding up and the jelly-like blobs are forming again. :icon_roll I was doing more research this morning and read on the Cannastats web site that daily H2O2 applications of up to 5.5ml/gal were recommended - more than twice what I'm using. So I gave it a blast at that rate this morning and (since it didn't seem to make any difference) another just now. I'll check again in 6 hours and if still no difference I'll blast it again. Heck, what've I got to loose?

Plants are still looking good...

 

[ultrasonic]

Hows the aeration in your res? Lots and lots of bubbles?