Zabka & SO - First Attempt - Soil - Cali Jack/Blue Cheese - 2014

Zabka

New Member
Hi, new here and new to growing. I've been smoking for about eight years - helps with undiagnosed depression, sleeping issues, anxiety, work-related stress, and the general monotony of modern life! :thumb:

My girlfriend and I (she's been smoking regularly for a few years) are pretty skint and an old friend let on that he'd bought a CFL and reflector to grow a monster he had vegging in a cupboard at his place. He said we should give it a try...right now we pay around £240 on the ounce at best, so after some extensive Googling we ordered a bunch of stuff for around £300. If this grow survives and succeeds, we'll need about 1.25oz to return our investment...here's hoping!

During research (and that was crazy indeed, reminded me of cramming for exams in school, reading so much so quickly), this place cropped up more often than any other site; the people appeared friendly and helpful, knowledgeable yet open minded, and as soon as I'd read my first couple of grow journals, I knew I wanted to get one on the go.

We'd set up our tent in advance to get a feel for the conditions, and our seeds arrived last of all, so after a couple of days anxiously waiting I spotted a tiny green bent thing in the middle of one of our pots this morning before work. We'd gone to check, found nothing, and she left the room. I picked up the pot for a better look, then shouted the house down in excitement until she came back to see :circle-of-love: I never thought 1ml of green could make me so happy! Anyway, I figured that was a good excuse to get started - stops me from hanging around the tent until lights on at 4, and I won't have to suffer the embarrassment of beginning a journal only for the plants not to show. Guaranteed they will die now, of course :rofl:

Overly long and pointless introductions out of the way - now, down to the good stuff...

What strain is it? 1 x Cali Jack/1 x Blue Cheese, both fem
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? Both hybrids, unsure
Is it in Veg or Flower stage? Yet to show/Seedling (kind of)
If in Veg... For how long? N/A
If in Flower stage... For how long? N/A
Indoor or outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soil
If soil... what is in your mix? Pre-mixed Canna Terra
If soil... What size pot? ~4", with ~10" (about 9L) waiting in the wings (both round)
Size of light? 125w CFL (have blue right now for veg, one red for flowering later - hopefully) with reflector
Is it aircooled? Yes - 4" inline fan/filter, two 6" desk fans for intake/circulation
Temp of Room/cab? High 30C, low 23C
RH of Room/cab? High 70%, low 40%
PH of media or res? 6-6.5, if I remember rightly
Any Pests? No
How often are you watering? Light sprays with tap water which has sat out for a couple of days - just enough to moisten the top layer of soil if it's dry
Type and strength of ferts used? None yet - Dutch Pro starter kit ready and waiting (separate A + B for flower/veg, multi total, explode, take root)


I feel like a kid on Christmas Eve and the girls aren't even up and out yet! I am hoping for a proper little stem when I open the tent at 4 - it looked all bent around and hadn't broken the soil earlier. I can imagine this feeling will intensify over the next couple of months :thumb: I think I was addicted before the equipment even began to arrive! I have done a lot more research since we placed the orders, so I think we've probably been ripped off to a certain extent, but we wanted to get started as soon as we could, and while the setup is small it doesn't look too crappy to my novice eyes...will try and get some pics uploaded soon!

Other details/concerns:

Grow space - we didn't have a room or cupboard which could be closed off from visitors or properly blacked out, so we bought a small tent (60x60x140cm). We considered using a wardrobe or constructing something ourselves, but our only wardrobe is too small to properly fit our clothes in and lightproofing it would have taken some serious work. Wood seems to cost an arm and a leg here, so we figured the £40 tent would be cheaper than buying materials. It's a little small to work in comfortably, but should see us through a few grows if the weed god is kind, and should make a passable mother/veg tent if we go perpetual. The main gripe with the tent is that there are a lot of tiny pinholes around the stitching at the edges, and some light escapes through the zip. This is only really noticeable when the lights are off in the room and on in the tent, but from inside the tent you can discern some tiny pinpricks of light. Opinion seems to be divided on whether this will stress the plant if there's not enough light to illuminate the tent. I reckon we'll chuck a blanket over it throughout flowering to be on the safe side.

Ventilation/Temperature - we set up the fan & filter at the top of the tent. They were included in the same kit, but running them directly attached to each other barely fits along the top edge of the tent. We have some of that silver flexible ducting attached to the fan output, running through the roof vent. This creates a pretty dodgy angle, but the alternatives were worse; the other vents are at the bottom left/right, and we did originally have the ducting going down there, but the outside of it was warm and raised temps in the bottom of the tent. Putting the fan outside would have created either the same duct heat issue or even more 90 degree bends running the duct through the top of the tent and to a fan on the floor. There is still a tangible airflow through the ducting, and we have it running upwards towards an open window (ducting/tent are not visible from outside).

However, when we switched our light on and had the tent closed, temps rose to 35C even with the fan on. We had a 6" desk fan for circulation, and placing this in front of the side vent lowered temps a couple of degrees, but only if the vent was open - with the door open too it's about 28C. We both work similar 8-hour days, and want them on 18/6 veg, so there's always some time in the morning & evening when the lights run with nobody home to open/close the tent. We had the lights running at night to combat incredibly high daytime temps (pushing 30C in the UK - this is madness!), and also to avoid having them on in an empty house as much as possible.

So, I used some card from the many boxes our parcels had arrived in to bodge a very makeshift light trap duct type thing, which actually seems to work. A tie (yes, clothing) around the join between duct and vent closed off any further leaks. We later bought another 6" fan and made another duct for the other side. A closed tent now reaches 31C max, but this should decrease as the plants get stronger - we have raised the light while they're small, and when we lower it it'll sit directly in the path of both intake fans, which cools it more effectively. And it probably won't get that hot, as the door will be closed for max. two hours with the light on at a time. 12/12 will be simpler, as we can open/close it within minutes of the light turning on or off. I'm also hoping that the red bulb will be cooler (not sure why, the light just looked less extreme when we tested it out of the box).

Right now, we have the light, exhaust and one intake fan on a timer, and the second, slightly more powerful intake on 24/7 to supply fresh air and resistance for the stems. The fans are angled up, so the seedlings will grow into them gradually. I know, pictures would help. I'll work on it, if anyone's still reading who hasn't been zombified by the terror that is Far Too Much Information. And we're not done yet!

Humidity - during dark times when the tent is closed, it can reach 70% RH at the floor of the tent. I think our intake fan reduces this slightly. Lights on dropped humidity to 30% when it was too hot. To combat the temperature and raise humidity, my better half suggested filling a crappy pot we'd bought and written off with wet soil (I read Perilite works best, but we don't have any). This helped somewhat and we're hoping that the plants will add moisture as they grow. When we upgrade to the bigger pots we can ditch the humidity pot. We do also have a sponge in some water which was added early and is still there, although I don't know how much good it does. I'm happy that not all the fans run all the time - we can use more later in the grow to reduce humidity for flowering.

Light - this is a worry as we only have one 125w (not equivalent) CFL under a polished reflector mounted on yoyo hangers, which is apparently a pretty poor surface for maximising lumens. The CFL is bright but I'm pretty sure that we'll need to implement some kind of LST or add side lighting if we're to get a decent yield off two plants. The light does pretty much cover the floor of the tent, so it's well suited to the space in that sense. There was a 150w HPS on offer with our tent/fan package for the same price including ballast/reflector, but I was worried about the temperature in the enclosed space and after seeing the rise caused by the CFL I'm glad we made this choice. Plus, we don't have much vertical space to work with, and the reported stretching during veg with HPS along with the additional clearance required would have made things pretty difficult. I just hope the yield doesn't suffer for it; I know some people get great results using CFLs but they usually have more than one, and often seem to use hydro (didn't fancy that much complexity first time round - although some seem to think it's simpler?).

Seeds - we bought three feminised seeds online. I won't say where, as I don't think it's a sponsor, but they were delivered relatively quickly, hidden inside a PC game style case. We have a Blue Cheese and a Cali Jack planted, and a Brooklyn Mango waiting for the end of this grow, or possibly sooner if we have any mishaps. We've also got a collection of dodgy bag seed which came out of a quart of 'Spanish High' picked up by a friend - never heard of that one. Not the nicest thing I've ever smoked by any means, but it does get you battered. We found these seeds after ordering online, or would probably have done a dummy run first.

Germination Method - at first we were going to use the plate method, as my girlfriend had used it before to grow vegetables, but after reading about the damage which can be caused to the root I got the willies and talked her in to soil germination to avoid trauma, figuring that if they didn't pop we could always return to the soaking or towel method later. We did try some bag seed between two plates with cotton wool, but the only thing to sprout so far there was a bit of mould. We removed the offending seed, but I'm paranoid about the spores invading the grow area... :hmmm:

We looked at 4pm, and Winifred (blue cheese - we did indeed name our 'official' seeds, not prematurely I hope) had bent up a little more, but her little leaves were still beneath the soil. I wanted to flick off the top bit of dirt and set her free, but my girlfriend insisted that she must come out alone. She's probably right. I recall reading here recently that if you are in doubt, don't do it. I guess if she's still stuck tomorrow I might help things along...Eulalia (Cali Jack) still hasn't made an appearance, but we're holding out hope.

pH - we're hoping that this won't be an issue as many soil growers seem to neglect their pH, but we have ordered some very basic litmus test strips. I know these are highly inaccurate and a total pain in the arse, but I figured it'll at least let us know if things are in the right kind of range. If the values look totally wrong or we have an otherwise inexplicable problem, then we'll invest in something a little more technical. The soil we have is around 6, if I remember rightly...will check next time I'm upstairs. Anyway, I remember thinking it seemed a little lower than recommended soil values, but my area does have soft water which I think I read has a neutral or slightly alkaline pH. I'm hoping it will all balance out; we did water the pots a couple of times before planting, to try and normalise everything. I realise I'll have to account for the nutes when they start coming in, too.

Soil/Pots - I'm hoping the Canna Terra won't prove too hot for the tiny seedlings. As detailed above, we watered the pots a couple of times before planting, so hopefully this will have removed some of the excess nutes. I'm also hoping it contains an adequate amount of Perilite for drainage. Small pots with no inhabitants under the light seemed to dry after 2-3 days, so hopefully this will be all right. Both the current & bigger pots have holes in the bottom for drainage. We've drilled side drains on the small pots and plan to do the same with the bigger ones before transplanting.

Watering/Feeding - the seeds were planted in soil which had been saturated two days previously, then broken up again. Water was then sprayed on the top layer of soil, left to soak, and sprayed again. This was repeated approx. 5 times. We have since only sprayed when the top layer feels dry to the touch. I'm really paranoid about over/under watering them. I know that I should be saturating the pot until I get runoff, then waiting for it to dry before watering again, but only when the plant has reached a certain size. I'm worried that they'll dry out or drown before they get this tall!

We plan to begin feeding at the 4th/5th set of leaves, or when the plant shows deficiency. Starting at 1/4 the recommended dose and working up slowly if there are no issues. We have a couple of supplements - one is a root booster called Take Root. The package states to use this from the outset, but then introduces the regular feeding plan sooner than most here would recommend. Would it be safe to use the root supplement on the first watering, or should we wait until regular feeding commences? We bought a soft water soil Dutch Pro starter kit. Has anyone used this brand?

Decisions - we can't really afford any more lights for some time. I have got my eye on some cheap sockets with a 3-pin plug already attached, and we could just get some 27w baby CFLs to go in them, but it might be a more effective use of space to go for some LST - SOG or SCROG (and cheaper - extra lights would cost maybe £40-50, but I don't really have this right now). Then again, I don't want to over complicate things on a first run through. Has anyone employed these techniques on a first time grow, or do any frequent users think it's a good thing to attempt on a maiden voyage?

Some people report success using a home made CO2 generator, made from yeast, sugar and water. Others state that it's a waste of time unless you already have optimum conditions and a totally sealed environment. Since we don't have a great light and run an extractor the whole time the plant's using CO2, would this be a waste of time and airline tubing? And if it is worthwhile, is it necessary to have a separate bottle used as an airlock?

Breaking news - a tiny bit of Eulalia's stem has broken ground, and Winifred's already shaken off her clump of dirt. By lights off in the morning they'll be proper little seedlings! This time it was her turn to shriek like a banshee. I thought there was a spider upstairs at first :laughtwo:

Aside from all the stuff mentioned above, we've got the following to aid us in our quest:

Secateurs (will probably need some better ones for trimming eventually)
Twine
Soft-coated wire
Saucers to fit each bucket size
Aluminium tape
Thermometer/hydrometer (or whatever a humidity meter is called - the square black and white 2 in 1 with clock that most growers seem to have - although we use Clippers, not Bics) :ganjamon::laughtwo::rofl:
Watering cans (unfortunately not lidded, and no spray heads)
Name tags
Syringes and airline tubing for measuring nutes
Large bowl for catching runoff while watering/flushing
Tarp to save the floor
Scoop for soil
Spray bottle

I know we'll likely need some kind of loupe to inspect the trichomes later, but is there anything else glaringly obvious missing here? A better camera would be nice, as any pics will probably be shocking due to phone cameras, but that's gonna be a few harvests away!

I can't think of anything else to write at the minute, but if anyone has any input it'd be greatly welcomed. Aside from trying to be less stupidly excited and rambling on when there isn't a sniff of bud yet, that is :rollit: and obviously the dearth of pictures. I'll see if the lovely lady will help me later. She did roll her eyes somewhat when I asked if she minded me writing a journal...ah, she does suffer!

Thanks for reading this, and for having this place available to share and learn. I'm not going to be that active elsewhere on the forums until I have some experience and input, as right now I can only parrot the words of wiser members, but anyone is welcome here. :thanks:

Zabka
 
Welcome to :420:

I'm actually heading out for now, but I'll have to check out all the details of your grow later. I saw you were growing a Cali Jack so I had to stop in. I have a Power Flower and Cali Jack growing now, 34 days into flower if I recall correctly. The link is in my signature, you're welcome to take a look.

Hi Antics, thanks for dropping by! I have been lurking on your journal since we ordered that CJ seed :tokin: but haven't commented anywhere but here yet...I plan to, but want to get a few nodes under my belt first! I was happy to see how your plant responded to the LST - I was considering it as we only have one large CFL and a level canopy looks like a good plan, but was worried about overcomplicating the first grow...having read your thoughts and experience, I do feel a little braver.

I was interested in your PF, too - our next project will likely involve a Brooklyn Mango we got in our batch. We saved it because it was the most expensive and we didn't want it to die! It's meant to be a Diesel x Super Bud (not too well up on my breeding, just read this on the seed site and it wasn't the most impressive English). I've never smoked anything that claimed to be Diesel, so I'm interested to see how that turns out for you. The BM, weirdly, is meant to taste of citrus fruits. But it was also bred to have denser buds, so maybe that's a Diesel characteristic? Both of your plants look awesome, in any case! :goodjob:

I read your previous journal as part of my research too (read as many completed threads as I could which were first grows or using CFLs); it looks like you learned a lot there. Hopefully I can learn some lessons from this grow! I'm dead excited you've got such good looking plants with CFLs, although I think you've probably got more wattage than we do overall. I'm gonna subscribe to your current grow. I want to see what happens with those lovely level bud sites! I read a load of journals during research when I didn't have an account, so now I'm having a hard time knowing what I have and haven't read! The final harvest on your first grow looked pretty tasty too. I'd be more than happy with that...

Update: things are going OK! Both plants have sprouted fully, and their first leaves are almost 1cm long. The leaves are bright green, the stem is a mossy green/brown with some tiny reddish veins toward the bottom, and the cotyledons are a velvety dark green. I tried to get pictures with my crappy phone cam, but it wasn't happening - horrible whiteout with the light on, pics under house lights too dark to see, and no flash for taking pics in darkness. I'll have to get some batteries for our old camera. It sucks, but it's better than damn N**** 'smartphone' crapness.

Eulalia (CJ) is a little shorter at around 2", but she was about 36 hours behind on the sprout. I think maybe my girlfriend planted her a little deeper, as her stem looks sturdier. Winifred (BC) is a little bit bent, not too badly, but she's a tad spindly at about 3.5". I was worried about her stretching; we'd had the light pretty far away, as people differ on the correct distance for CFLs. Most seem to recommend 2-8", which is a fair range to begin with, but we were wary of them being so small and thought the light might be better further away at first. And this range is usually talked about when people use numerous bulbs of lower wattage. I'm not sure if this would affect things at all.

Last night, I raised the pots a little higher so the light was about 12" away. This evening, we lowered the light to within 5" of the leaves. We checked on them about 1hr later. Temp was up to 32C and the soil was a little dry on top, but they looked fine, no sign of stress. I'll check on them regularly. If it's too close I can raise it on the yoyos without disturbing the wifeish! :cheertwo:

We've continued spraying the soil as it dries. We also planted a bag seed which unexpectedly sprouted after about three days. It was a rushed job, unfortunately. No side drainage in the pot, no presoaking of the soil, and I'm pretty sure the taproot was touched...nothing showing so far. In a way, this isn't such a bad thing, as the tent might be a little small for three plants, and we only have two decent pots :rofl: I think we just put them in the plates out of panic, in case soil didn't work straight off.

If it does work...it would be kind of good to have a backup - or even a guinea pig! Then again, this could be a pretty poor strategy, as the bag seed is unidentified, so extrapolation to other strains might not be a good idea. The bag seed has been named 'Free Weed'. I feel kind of sorry for it. If it lives, I will have to spoil it (but not too much) and hope it's female!

The litmus strips arrived today. I tested with vinegar to make sure they worked all right! GF had never used them in school science lessons and looked at me like I was a crazy person when I got all excited about this tiny book of paper which cost about 70p (free shipping from China, that's true value for money!). I feel that she was cheated somewhat as a child. Tap water which had been sitting in a bottle/spray for a couple of days seemed about 6.5-7. I'm relatively happy with this, as the soil is slightly too acidic (still didn't check the advertised soil pH for the exact value, damn!). At least I can check regularly with my rudimentary equipment and if something changes very suddenly, or I have lockout issues, I might have a vague chance at saving things before a better means of testing can be procured! OK, I did kind of just want the paper anyway :cheesygrinsmiley:

Not much else to report; once again, sorry for the lack of pictures. I know it's hard to say without them, but does this sound like a pretty normal first three days in terms of colour/growth? Should I move the lights away, or closer, or water more? Does it take a long time for the leaves to reach a decent size? I don't want them to be deprived in any way, but overdoing things seems to be the worst crime of new growers!

Even the tiny bit we've accomplished has made me feel happy in a way that I haven't for a long time. My girlfriend and cats make me happy because I love them, and I'm not trying to say that I was truly unhappy before, but being able to do something to improve our lives and feel a sense of ownership is something I haven't felt in a long time. My job could probably be worse, but not much, and it's not particularly fulfilling. It's good to have something that we can work on at the end of the day, aside from our little cat children and the neverending toil of housework (and that has suffered a little, I must say...cats are still fine, but jealous of the tent!).

Thanks for reading! Again, any comments are welcome, and antics, I'll be keeping up with your grow!

Zabka
 
You have one thorough journal my friend. I had to take a break last night and finish up today lol

I'll read through your journal, and comment as I go.

If you don't hit 1.25 ounces on your first grow, the CFLs should last at least 2 grows (On my second grow now). Although I had 1 CFL die on me in the first grow, the others I bought in the same pack are still going strong.

I spent a lot of time researching myself. I was bouncing from website to website, there's a ton of information out there, but some of it appears to be somewhat inaccurate. The other problem I found was the constant posts on other sites like "OMG my dad/mom caught me wut do i do?" I'm a little past that stage in my life, so I continued looking, and came across 420 Magazine. Friendly, Mature, Experienced, Loads of facts and knowledge, what more could someone ask for? So I've been here ever since.

If they die don't sweat it. I killed my first two seedlings lol. Loads of nutrients way too early dropped my PH to under 4... then I used baking soda to raise the PH, which is another no-no. And yeah.. I read that baking soda information on another website. Big mistake.

Cali Jack is 70% Indica, 30% Sativa. It'll be great for the evenings, or before bed to help you sleep.

30C is a LITTLE high, if you can get it down a couple degrees, to about 27C that'll give you a nice buffer. I hit 31C and Cali Jack started showing a few small signs of heat stress.

I like 100w minimum per plant in Veg, and 150w minimum per plant in Flower. I'm using 383 total watts now for my 2 plants.
Your 125w will be great until they start getting a bit bigger, then they might start wanting a little more light.

Growing is VERY addictive. It's also fun, and very relaxing. Some days I'll just sit with my plants, turning the pots slowly, admiring the growth, as well as looking for signs of pests of deficiencies.

The tents are very quick, easy, and efficient to use. If I had the space for one I would have bought one myself. I just have a closet in my computer room that I wasn't using, so it worked out for me.

90 degree bends can be your friend at times, as they will act as traps to prevent light leaks inside the tent. If too much light gets in when you're flowering, it can cause the plants to revert back to Veg.

Most growers will run their exhaust, and circulation fans 24/7, and only the lights are on timers. I have the same setup. My fans run 24/7.

Your humidity level isn't too bad for Veg, but you'll want to find a way to reduce that to 40%-50% for Flower.

You made the right call, the HPS would raise temps a lot, and although affordable, I chose to go with CFLs specifically to avoid the heat issue.

Your training the plants is pretty easy. Top them, then use LST to train them to grow flat (As you saw in my journal). My Cali Jack is probably about 38cm tall, not including the container.

The yield may suffer, but don't get discouraged on your first grow. I only harvested a little over 1/2 ounce from 2 plants my first go.

Never give away the secrets of stealth shipping :)

I only germinate in soil myself. I scarify the seeds first (light sanding of the shell). I have my girlfriend's emery board for her nails, I use the fine grit side, and I hold it at the end, and hold the seed in my other hand, and lightly drag the emery board across it. Other folks will use small match boxes lined with sandpaper, place their seeds inside and give it a few shakes. I have 100% germination so far this way. If I used the paper towel, my clumsy fingers would break a few roots that way..

For PH I use a cheap analog meter. They're not as accurate as digital meters, but so far it has helped me fix a few problems.
And I use a freshwater aquarium PH test kit for testing my runoff water.

As long as you keep the soil moist, but not wet you'll have the best germination rates.

Not sure about root supplement, does it say what nutrients it contains? I wait until 3-4 weeks to start with nutrients, unless I see deficiencies, so your plan is pretty good there, and I have seen several other growers use the exact same plan.

Using smaller CFLs will allow you to spread out the light more. I use mostly 23w bulbs for my grow, a few 45w, and one 18w I found.

If budget is tight for more bulbs, I definitely suggest you top the plant, and use loads of LST to train the top canopy to grow as flat as possible, this basically creates more surface area to absorb the light, and it's the most efficient use of CFL lighting that I have seen so far.

I'm looking into a CO2 generator myself now, but haven't used one yet, so I can't comment much on it.

Twine? If this is for LST, I suggest a larger thickness of string/yarn/rope or I use ribbon and pipe cleaners, with paperclips on the edge of the pots. Thin string/twine can cut into the branches if it's too tight around them.

Hygrometers will be useful when drying and curing your harvest also!

I don't use a watering can. I use gallon milk jugs that I fill and let sit out to disperse the chlorine. I then use a small bottle from bottled water. I drilled holes in the cap (you can just use a screw, or hot needle to make the holes also) and that creates my showerhead. I just refill from the gallons for how much water I need to use.

Name tags can be supplemented with pieces of plastic. From milk jugs, or any container, and written on with a permanent marker.

If you have tablespoons, teaspoons, etc... Find your nutrient instructions, and use google to convert the teaspoon, tablespoon etc.. to ml. Find a clean empty container you can use to measure nutes. Then fill the teaspoons, tablespoons etc.. to each level you'd need. Like if your nutes vary in strength from 2ml 5ml 8ml 10ml 15ml 20ml etc.. fill the container with that much water using the measuring spoons, then scratch into the plastic your measurement for each level youll need to use in the future. This has been working great for me using an old pharmacy prescription bottle.

40x will get you by, 60x is great. A loupe, or microscope works. I bought an LED microscope online for about 4-5 pounds.

Cell phone camera has worked fine for me.

AND YOUR SECOND POST:

Feel free to comment or ask questions on my journal, or anyone's for that matter. We're all proud of our grows, and we love talking about them. Just ask my girlfriend, she has to hear it nonstop :D

I have done a FIM, loads of LST, and a bit of defoliation as well on my plants, and they have both responded quite well to all training, except the CJ FIM was a little low on one side, and it took a while to regrow that side, but it ended up with 2 tops growing there, for a total of 5 tops. And with the LST, it turned the other branches into 'almost tops' as well. I have also lollypopped a few low branches which didn't receive much light at all.

I'm curious about the PF myself, I'm still learning smells of strains, and I think this smell might be diesel, but I'm not sure yet lol.

Thanks for the compliment!

I learned a lot from my first grow. 1/2 ounce isn't bad for a first time from two plants, but the goal this grow is to double my previous yield. I'm hoping to see 1/2o from each plant, or better.

I have a total of 383 watts now, with 14 bulbs. You can still grow great buds with your 125w CFL, just stay on top of your LST!

If your plants stems seem to grow fast, and they start looking like the plant might tip over, move your lights closer.
The first 1-2 weeks seem a bit slow. By your third week growth will really start picking up and you'll notice differences every morning and night.

If you have cats, keep them away from your plants! Some people have had their pets eat leaves and buds lol.

Good luck with your grow!!
 
You have one thorough journal my friend. I had to take a break last night and finish up today lol

I'll read through your journal, and comment as I go.

If you don't hit 1.25 ounces on your first grow, the CFLs should last at least 2 grows (On my second grow now). Although I had 1 CFL die on me in the first grow, the others I bought in the same pack are still going strong.

I spent a lot of time researching myself. I was bouncing from website to website, there's a ton of information out there, but some of it appears to be somewhat inaccurate. The other problem I found was the constant posts on other sites like "OMG my dad/mom caught me wut do i do?" I'm a little past that stage in my life, so I continued looking, and came across 420 Magazine. Friendly, Mature, Experienced, Loads of facts and knowledge, what more could someone ask for? So I've been here ever since.

If they die don't sweat it. I killed my first two seedlings lol. Loads of nutrients way too early dropped my PH to under 4... then I used baking soda to raise the PH, which is another no-no. And yeah.. I read that baking soda information on another website. Big mistake.

Cali Jack is 70% Indica, 30% Sativa. It'll be great for the evenings, or before bed to help you sleep.

30C is a LITTLE high, if you can get it down a couple degrees, to about 27C that'll give you a nice buffer. I hit 31C and Cali Jack started showing a few small signs of heat stress.

I like 100w minimum per plant in Veg, and 150w minimum per plant in Flower. I'm using 383 total watts now for my 2 plants.
Your 125w will be great until they start getting a bit bigger, then they might start wanting a little more light.

Growing is VERY addictive. It's also fun, and very relaxing. Some days I'll just sit with my plants, turning the pots slowly, admiring the growth, as well as looking for signs of pests of deficiencies.

The tents are very quick, easy, and efficient to use. If I had the space for one I would have bought one myself. I just have a closet in my computer room that I wasn't using, so it worked out for me.

90 degree bends can be your friend at times, as they will act as traps to prevent light leaks inside the tent. If too much light gets in when you're flowering, it can cause the plants to revert back to Veg.

Most growers will run their exhaust, and circulation fans 24/7, and only the lights are on timers. I have the same setup. My fans run 24/7.

Your humidity level isn't too bad for Veg, but you'll want to find a way to reduce that to 40%-50% for Flower.

You made the right call, the HPS would raise temps a lot, and although affordable, I chose to go with CFLs specifically to avoid the heat issue.

Your training the plants is pretty easy. Top them, then use LST to train them to grow flat (As you saw in my journal). My Cali Jack is probably about 38cm tall, not including the container.

The yield may suffer, but don't get discouraged on your first grow. I only harvested a little over 1/2 ounce from 2 plants my first go.

Never give away the secrets of stealth shipping :)

I only germinate in soil myself. I scarify the seeds first (light sanding of the shell). I have my girlfriend's emery board for her nails, I use the fine grit side, and I hold it at the end, and hold the seed in my other hand, and lightly drag the emery board across it. Other folks will use small match boxes lined with sandpaper, place their seeds inside and give it a few shakes. I have 100% germination so far this way. If I used the paper towel, my clumsy fingers would break a few roots that way..

For PH I use a cheap analog meter. They're not as accurate as digital meters, but so far it has helped me fix a few problems.
And I use a freshwater aquarium PH test kit for testing my runoff water.

As long as you keep the soil moist, but not wet you'll have the best germination rates.

Not sure about root supplement, does it say what nutrients it contains? I wait until 3-4 weeks to start with nutrients, unless I see deficiencies, so your plan is pretty good there, and I have seen several other growers use the exact same plan.

Using smaller CFLs will allow you to spread out the light more. I use mostly 23w bulbs for my grow, a few 45w, and one 18w I found.

If budget is tight for more bulbs, I definitely suggest you top the plant, and use loads of LST to train the top canopy to grow as flat as possible, this basically creates more surface area to absorb the light, and it's the most efficient use of CFL lighting that I have seen so far.

I'm looking into a CO2 generator myself now, but haven't used one yet, so I can't comment much on it.

Twine? If this is for LST, I suggest a larger thickness of string/yarn/rope or I use ribbon and pipe cleaners, with paperclips on the edge of the pots. Thin string/twine can cut into the branches if it's too tight around them.

Hygrometers will be useful when drying and curing your harvest also!

I don't use a watering can. I use gallon milk jugs that I fill and let sit out to disperse the chlorine. I then use a small bottle from bottled water. I drilled holes in the cap (you can just use a screw, or hot needle to make the holes also) and that creates my showerhead. I just refill from the gallons for how much water I need to use.

Name tags can be supplemented with pieces of plastic. From milk jugs, or any container, and written on with a permanent marker.

If you have tablespoons, teaspoons, etc... Find your nutrient instructions, and use google to convert the teaspoon, tablespoon etc.. to ml. Find a clean empty container you can use to measure nutes. Then fill the teaspoons, tablespoons etc.. to each level you'd need. Like if your nutes vary in strength from 2ml 5ml 8ml 10ml 15ml 20ml etc.. fill the container with that much water using the measuring spoons, then scratch into the plastic your measurement for each level youll need to use in the future. This has been working great for me using an old pharmacy prescription bottle.

40x will get you by, 60x is great. A loupe, or microscope works. I bought an LED microscope online for about 4-5 pounds.

Cell phone camera has worked fine for me.

AND YOUR SECOND POST:

Feel free to comment or ask questions on my journal, or anyone's for that matter. We're all proud of our grows, and we love talking about them. Just ask my girlfriend, she has to hear it nonstop :D

I have done a FIM, loads of LST, and a bit of defoliation as well on my plants, and they have both responded quite well to all training, except the CJ FIM was a little low on one side, and it took a while to regrow that side, but it ended up with 2 tops growing there, for a total of 5 tops. And with the LST, it turned the other branches into 'almost tops' as well. I have also lollypopped a few low branches which didn't receive much light at all.

I'm curious about the PF myself, I'm still learning smells of strains, and I think this smell might be diesel, but I'm not sure yet lol.

Thanks for the compliment!

I learned a lot from my first grow. 1/2 ounce isn't bad for a first time from two plants, but the goal this grow is to double my previous yield. I'm hoping to see 1/2o from each plant, or better.

I have a total of 383 watts now, with 14 bulbs. You can still grow great buds with your 125w CFL, just stay on top of your LST!

If your plants stems seem to grow fast, and they start looking like the plant might tip over, move your lights closer.
The first 1-2 weeks seem a bit slow. By your third week growth will really start picking up and you'll notice differences every morning and night.

If you have cats, keep them away from your plants! Some people have had their pets eat leaves and buds lol.

Good luck with your grow!!

Hey Antics, that was quite a message! Thanks for taking so much time, first to trawl through all of that, and second to write such a thoughtful response. I'll try to muster a decent reply :thanks:

The differing information is pretty confusing! That's where these journals have really come in handy for me. Obviously everyone's grow is unique, but you can see which techniques seem to succeed most often. I'll make sure to steer clear of the baking aids! Unless the yeast ends up working, that is...

The temp sits at around 28C when the door's open, so as long as the plants survive to flowering it should be OK for them, touch wood...we don't have any more vents available to open through daytime hours. When the door's open with everything running, smoke gets sucked in, so exhaust seems to exceed intake. We totally overspent on this stuff and payday's not until the end of the month :( I might look in to fitting PC fans directly in my cardboard ducts, but I really suck at wiring and stuff.

I'd like to take a moment to commend this site's auto-restore response feature, which is AWESOME.

It totally is addictive. I've spent a fair bit of time watching them already. The tent is serving its purpose, but I think we're going to find it hard to control temps with any extra light. If I had the money, I would buy a bigger tent than I needed just to have more space for circulation and venting!

We tried running all fans 24/7, but the humidity and temp dropped a bit too much during their nighttime. If humidity increases when they get bigger, we can add the extractor. If not, we can wait until flowering and use the extra control to lower humidity and night temps (some seem to recommend this). At least they have a constant intake to give them fresh CO2...really hoping this will be OK as we have no space/funds for a humidifier!

I think some LST will definitely be in order. I'm not sure on the top or FIM - I'm just a pansy, really. And we need our first harvest ASAP, ideally. Does it add about a week on veg time if successful? I guess it's a question of if the increased yield or shorter grow time will be more worth it, given the limited light...but a week ago I was in two minds over LST, so things can definitely change! I do have to persuade my girlfriend, too. English is her second language, and she despises reading in any case, so reading these forums isn't an option! I have showed her your pictures, and she was impressed, so here's hoping! :thumb:

As the days go on, I feel like I'd be satisfied if they just survived to the end of this. That would be an achievement in itself! It's crazy watching something come to life in such detail.

Sorry, didn't think there. I could just be bluffing! I forget sometimes that seeds aren't legal everywhere (weird loophole here).

I had read about scarification but was worried about being too heavy handed. Luckily our seeds seemed pretty fresh and germed quickly. I'll definitely bear it in mind if I get a stubborn batch at any point :high-five: I guess you can't go wrong shaking a matchbox...

We will invest in some better pH control, but want to avoid it for as long as possible. The litmus put our tap water at about 7 after standing. Soil pH is listed as 6.0. Runoff approx. 6.5. I'm hoping this will be OK for now, but I hope the nutes don't upset the balance too much when they're added.

The root supplement lists 15 different compounds, which I can transcribe if you're interested. The blurb is quite poorly written, but apparently it's a growth stimulant recommended for young or 'affected' plants/cuttings. Its active components are of natural origin - some kind of plant hormones and micro-nutrients. It slows the aging process and stimulates root development.

The twine was a kind of emergency back up and also for a possible SCROG, should this be an option in this or future grows. We've got some gardening wire stuff - flexible wire coated in some soft green squidgy stuff to protect the plants. Like an unfluffy pipe cleaner. It should fit the bill well, from what you've said :cheertwo:

I am really jealous of those milk bottles. The biggest I can find here is about two litres, and they're just not sturdy enough for shaking to mix (flimsy lids which leak as soon as the inner seal is removed). I wouldn't feel confident tipping them with the lid on, either. We do have a couple of 1.5L water bottles which we're using to stand our water. The watering cans haven't really been used yet. If I manage to find some good enough bottles, we'll definitely make the switch.

Unfortunately, we'd already bought all the stuff listed there before beginning the grow. Otherwise I would just sack it and use random plastic and teaspoons! But if I have something accurate that won't spill (I am so clumsy it often hurts), I'll try it first. I bet you anything I'm back in a few weeks whingeing about the pain in the ass that is the syringe, ha ha. Fortunately, all the crappest things on that list can't have cost more than £5 combined, so I don't feel too wasteful. Will definitely bear it in mind for the future, though! :thanks: And the marks in the side of the container idea is a very efficient one, I will have to steal that for sure.

I did manage to take some pictures today, which I'll try and wrestle on here later today. They are shocking, though. There's no flash on the phone, and the CFL is too bright (photo whites out) but room lighting is too dark. Daylight is good, but we've blacked out the grow room window (not properly, just with a crappy black sheet, but it is progress and darkness isn't critical yet). It's also hard to see how out of focus they are on a tiny screen, and then getting them on the computer without Microsoft doing it for me and probably saving a million copies with my name all over them took some time, and THEN I saw how bad they were. So I apologise in advance for the quality.

Thanks for the advice on the light distance. I was worried about Winifred (BC) getting a bit spindly, but we lowered the lights and upward growth seems to have stopped. They just both angled their little leaves at the light and went for it :) they are pretty cool!

The cats like the room, but have been quite good (for cats) about going in the tent. They have climbed on top of it, though, so they're only allowed in the room while supervised, and can't do more than stick their noses in the tent. They're curious, and also a little jealous. And of course, cats love to supervise! The light seems to hurt their eyes, so they haven't ventured further. We will keep tabs on them!

Again, thanks for all the time you spent on your message. I will take note of your advice indeed, and hopefully continue to learn on your journal! And I'm glad someone else bores their poor GF to tears on the subject. Even though we're in this together, and she's really excited to see them getting bigger, her eyes glaze the hell over when I start speaking about wattage, or pH...poor girl...maybe the language barrier...probably just my tendency to waffle! And thanks for sharing this on your journal, too - really appreciate it :) with all the activity on these forums, it's easy for a new (and currently picless) thread to get lost. I'll have to stick in my sig and find some time to comment elsewhere!

I got my eye, when the pictures come, on your Blue Cheese.

Hey Budstep, good to have you here! I just had to pop over to your journal, hadn't yet had the pleasure. I'm now on page three, so I'll have some good toking material once I finally finish this post! I have got some pictures today, so I've just gotta work out how to get them on here - most people seem to struggle at first - and I think I saw that they have to be approved, or something? Anyhow, the BC isn't all that impressive right now, and the photos are awful, but I'll try and get them up before I get up to date with your grow. Thanks for stopping by, man :thanks:

Small update: CJ and BC's leaves have at least doubled in area since the last update. CJ is shorter and sturdier. Her leaves are a little flatter on one side, and the creases in them are more defined. BC is taller and thinner, but still stands up to the fans with no problem. I did notice what looked to be new leaves in the middle of both seedlings. Some of the new growth seemed to be tinged a purplish/red/brown colour on the very edges - almost unnoticeable - my GF couldn't see it. Could it be heat stress, under/over watering, or a pH issue? I don't think it's properly visible on the pictures but will load them regardless...it does seem to be on the parts of new growth closest to the light, so I'm leaning towards heat/light being the cause.

The bag seed sprouted last night. There was a clump of soil which was pushing up. I gently rubbed it and it dissolved to reveal the seed hat. I must admit that I tried to help it off. I think I might have damaged the cotyledons a little bit (I have read about this happening but...I don't know. I think I just have no mercy with the bag seed). Anyway, the husk was parallel to the plant. Then I stared at it for a long while and I swear that it was growing before my (admittedly stoned) eyes.

It was really trippy; too slow to truly observe, but definitely happening - after about 15 mins the husk was now at a 45 degree angle, without any further prodding from me. I did eventually manage to detach it (seriously...it was impossible to resist...like a massive white head), but it was mental how it was stuck on too much for me to remove but this tiny plant could just sort of...expand it open. Madness. I hope the little bugger survives. The first fan leaves are there...misting has commenced (only the soil, not the leaves).

So, after the girls grew so much I figured I would try their first proper watering today. Mega paranoid now that it's too soon, but the soil was pretty dry and airy lower down and what we mist on the top largely evaporates in the CFL heat. I slowly watered round the edges working in, until I got a very small amount of run off. I felt the pot weight before and after to try and get a feel for it. Bag seed's pot is largely dry/damp, so that will offer a good comparison for the time being. I pray they will not die. If they look dodgy, would it be better to leave them to dry out alone, or transplant them ASAP? My soil mix contains perilite, but I'm not sure what ratio it is.

So, yup, pictures coming soon!...as in...now! :cheertwo: Thanks for reading :thanks:

Zabka
 
Differing information comes from various growers having different experiences with different strains. As you read more you'll start seeing a lot of things repeated by different growers, those were the methods I tried to follow in my grows. Although occasional bad info (like the baking soda) will kill your grow real quick.

Wiring is easy. If you need help on something, post some pics of what you have, and we can help you wire it safely, and correctly.

I've used auto restore a few times myself and save a few headaches :D

Topping is the easier of the two. FIM requires a specific spot be cut... Topping you just grab some clean sterile scissors, a razor blade, or clean fingernails and nip it off. You can also just bend it back and forth until it comes off. It's super easy, and I regret not doing it in my first grow.

You can even have your girlfriend sign up with her own name so you can both update this grow together.
That is, if you can get her to sign up. Thank you for the compliments as well!

The matchbox is definitely easier and safer for the seeds. I just didn't have one handy.

Finding a good balance for taking pictures is difficult, I still haven't mastered it as you can see from my pics lol. And I'm using a crappy camera which doesn't help. But as long as it gets the point across, it works!

Well my girlfriend enjoys using Cannabis, but doesn't care much for the science behind it, or all the things going on to grow it lol.

And you're welcome. I wanted to help as much as possible. Even though I'm still learning myself, I do know some things that I can share to help give new growers a head start, and hopefully help make their first grow a successful one.

And this will help you upload pictures: Photo Gallery Guide: How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos
 
Differing information comes from various growers having different experiences with different strains. As you read more you'll start seeing a lot of things repeated by different growers, those were the methods I tried to follow in my grows. Although occasional bad info (like the baking soda) will kill your grow real quick.

Wiring is easy. If you need help on something, post some pics of what you have, and we can help you wire it safely, and correctly.

I've used auto restore a few times myself and save a few headaches :D

Topping is the easier of the two. FIM requires a specific spot be cut... Topping you just grab some clean sterile scissors, a razor blade, or clean fingernails and nip it off. You can also just bend it back and forth until it comes off. It's super easy, and I regret not doing it in my first grow.

You can even have your girlfriend sign up with her own name so you can both update this grow together.
That is, if you can get her to sign up. Thank you for the compliments as well!

The matchbox is definitely easier and safer for the seeds. I just didn't have one handy.

Finding a good balance for taking pictures is difficult, I still haven't mastered it as you can see from my pics lol. And I'm using a crappy camera which doesn't help. But as long as it gets the point across, it works!

Well my girlfriend enjoys using Cannabis, but doesn't care much for the science behind it, or all the things going on to grow it lol.

And you're welcome. I wanted to help as much as possible. Even though I'm still learning myself, I do know some things that I can share to help give new growers a head start, and hopefully help make their first grow a successful one.

And this will help you upload pictures: Photo Gallery Guide: How to Resize, Upload & Post Photos

Hey Antics, you've been more than helpful. As well as CFLs I focused a lot of my reading on first grow journals to try and avoid the most common mistakes, and a lot of them didn't get such in-depth responses at this point even with more images and less farting about. So thank you for making us feel welcome here, we feel like we have a mentor already :thanks: Hopefully I got the pictures uploaded all right, although my individual descriptions were lost along the way. Bugger. We shall see! Thanks for the link :)

I am easily persuaded, and you're making topping sound like a better plan all along, ha ha! I will think on it with a sober mind tomorrow (my best judgments usually occur when stoned and sober minds agree). My GF listened to me read your post and was happy that someone wanted to help us too. I'll try and persuade her, but it will likely be futile! She just hates reading and writing on any subject, although she will listen to things being read out for some time. I love both; we're pretty different but it works! She likes looking after plants and has a much greener thumb than I do. I usually struggle to keep supermarket basil alive, although I do suspect that they engineer it to perish after about a week...

God, this place is like a black hole. Where did all that time go?! OK, photo time and then off to bed...good night!

Eulalia (CJ) - Day 8
WP_20140807_019.jpg

WP_20140807_017.jpg
WP_20140807_015.jpg

Eulalia & Winifred - Day 8
WP_20140807_013.jpg

Winifred (BC) - Day 8
WP_20140807_008.jpg
WP_20140807_007.jpg
WP_20140807_005.jpg

Bag seed, looking a bit sorry for itself
WP_20140807_009.jpg

Inline fan/filter - you can see the crazy duct angle after the fan, but every set up presented its own issues
WP_20140807_011.jpg

Tent setup - it was impossible to get a pic under the light due to the shoddy white balance on my phone. You can see our pot o'soil in the top left to help humidity. The reflector nearly covers the tent. You can just about see the little cage fans on the front left and right vents.
WP_20140807_010.jpg


Final thought - the pots look a little under filled. We didn't want to push the soil down too much and prevent the seeds from coming through. The water has been compacting the earth, and it's more visible since tonight's watering. Should I fill the gap with soil next time I water, or leave it as I'll be transplanting soon(ish) anyway?

Ooh, and I did see someone using a frozen bottle of water to control temps in the tent. Has anyone else used this method or is it more trouble than it's worth?

Thanks again,

Zabka
 
Ooh, and I did see someone using a frozen bottle of water to control temps in the tent. Has anyone else used this method or is it more trouble than it's worth?

Thanks again,

Zabka


You *can* use frozen water bottles but try to keep the roots away from the frozen bottle. They don't like that very much. I got to where I would take my lid off, with the plant in the lid setting off to the side and then drop a water bottle in there to cool it and put the lid/plant back when you are done. I wouldn't let the plant sit out any longer than 10-15 minutes without some moisture on the roots at least.
 
Me a mentor? ha! I'm still learning myself. I'm just trying to help where I can so you guys can skip a few mistakes I made, and have a better first grow.

You'll find a lot of people here are really cool and friendly, as well as helpful. I never see any arguing, no bullshit, it's just always someone trying to offer as much help as they can through the keyboard.

You're growing with CFLs. They can work, BUT they're not as good as HPS/MH or LED.

Ill show you two pics from my grows. A pic from my tallest plant in my first grow, without topping. And a picture of my bushiest plant from my current grow. And you can see how topping and LST helps keep the plant growing more evenly, to produce nicely sized buds on all branches.

My first grow:


And now this is my Cali Jack, after I FIM'ed it, and LST it all the way into flower:


It's easy to see which one receives the most equal amount of light. Honestly from a new grower to another new grower, I REGRET not topping in my first grow. I could have seen a better yield than just 9.07 grams on that plant. A FIM is slightly different than topping, and a little more difficult to get right. Topping is REALLLLLLY easy, and if blue cheese is a photo period plant like Cali Jack, you can top them, wait a week, top again, wait a week, top again, etc... There's really no limit to how many times you can top. But it does make the Veg period longer.

I would leave the soil as is. When you transplant, put them as deep as you want into the new pots. Any soil on the stem can actually cause root growth from what I've been reading, more roots is always a good thing!
 
You *can* use frozen water bottles but try to keep the roots away from the frozen bottle. They don't like that very much. I got to where I would take my lid off, with the plant in the lid setting off to the side and then drop a water bottle in there to cool it and put the lid/plant back when you are done. I wouldn't let the plant sit out any longer than 10-15 minutes without some moisture on the roots at least.

Cool, thanks. Luckily, daytime temperatures have fallen over the past few days, so the tent's about 29C at its hottest, 27.5C for most of the time lights on, and around 23C lights off. We're happy with this, and the plants seem all right. Good to have the information for next summer, or if we have a sudden relapse to high temps...the air feels like something has changed, though, and winter is coming. Bad news - I hate winter - but hopefully better for the plants!

Me a mentor? ha! I'm still learning myself. I'm just trying to help where I can so you guys can skip a few mistakes I made, and have a better first grow.

You'll find a lot of people here are really cool and friendly, as well as helpful. I never see any arguing, no bullshit, it's just always someone trying to offer as much help as they can through the keyboard.

You're growing with CFLs. They can work, BUT they're not as good as HPS/MH or LED.

Ill show you two pics from my grows. A pic from my tallest plant in my first grow, without topping. And a picture of my bushiest plant from my current grow. And you can see how topping and LST helps keep the plant growing more evenly, to produce nicely sized buds on all branches.

My first grow:


And now this is my Cali Jack, after I FIM'ed it, and LST it all the way into flower:


It's easy to see which one receives the most equal amount of light. Honestly from a new grower to another new grower, I REGRET not topping in my first grow. I could have seen a better yield than just 9.07 grams on that plant. A FIM is slightly different than topping, and a little more difficult to get right. Topping is REALLLLLLY easy, and if blue cheese is a photo period plant like Cali Jack, you can top them, wait a week, top again, wait a week, top again, etc... There's really no limit to how many times you can top. But it does make the Veg period longer.

I would leave the soil as is. When you transplant, put them as deep as you want into the new pots. Any soil on the stem can actually cause root growth from what I've been reading, more roots is always a good thing!

Well, you've got about 200% more experience than me, if not more, haha. It's just nice for somebody to write such in depth replies so early on, when there's not much to see. It makes writing more rewarding, too :D

Yeah, they're both PP plants. I have seen your grows and I can see the effect. I'm hoping that our light source is powerful enough to render it worthwhile. Me and the missus have had a discussion and she's agreed to top one plant. Seeing how well your CJ responded (latest photos - wow! I can't count the buds if I try), I'm leaning toward that one, although it does look to grow quite bushy in any case. Hopefully it'll go well on one and she'll agree to a second...possibly doing one would be worse than doing none, because the light height will be determined by the tallest part of plant, and keeping one low would be counterproductive if the other is really tall...unless this can be counteracted by really aggressive LST or supercropping. Supercropping looks more risky to me than topping by a long way! I think I'll have to present the argument with photographic evidence! :nomo:

We'll follow your advice on the soil. I'm not sure now how to tell when they need transplanting, though. Did you have to do this or did you plant in the final pots? If we wait until roots poke out of the pot or the plant stops growing, isn't that too long? I don't really want to take them out of the pots to look at the roots as I'm one clumsy bastard. Unless this is the only way...that or guessing?

Update: The big girls are doing really well. Their second leaves have come out and are now bigger than the first leaves in the pictures above. They're almost touching when the pots are side by side! The nodes are really close together, so I think the light is close enough. Under each node, I can see two tiny darker green strips, which look like the place preflowers would appear on a big plant, and I got excited! Winifred's stalk has thickened out, and they don't sway so much in the breeze any more. They had their second watering yesterday - the top three inches were bone dry and the pots felt very light. The bottom wasn't wet but felt cool. If the larger leaves curve downwards, in a kind of springy way, not a limp way, is that a good thing? I think they look healthy, and my partner agrees, but am still worried! Day one of three seems a reasonable schedule for watering small pots such as these. I hope.

The newest growth is still tinged slightly purplish and looks a bit fuzzy, although this grows out as the leaves get bigger. Young growth is lime green. Older parts of the leaves are dark green. Veins appear creamy white, or tinged purplish. Hopefully, all this is all right. Bag seed is still lagging behind. The leaves are growing, but it feels so slow compared to her older sisters...she's not stretching, though, so we're fairly happy with her at the minute. She's still being misted rather than drenched.

I think it's now day 13, and they're at least twice as big as in the pictures. Going well so far...let's hope this continues! I got kind of paranoid after taking the last batch of pictures with my phone, despite having stopped location and photo uploads. I'm sure this is ridiculous, as this journal shows that our setup is tiny and only suitable for personal grows. But I figured that it wasn't worth the risk for the poor quality of photos, so the next batch will follow when I have an alternative means of taking them.

Sorry that there isn't much to report right now...I'm happy they are still alive, at any rate. One last question for today: when you poke your finger in the pot to see if the soil is dry, how far should you go to avoid damaging the roots? Do they usually grow towards the edges of the pot at a regular depth below planting, or does it depend on the medium and a bunch of other stuff? And when people say it should be dry before the next watering...is that, like, just not really wet, or bone dry like the top layer that gets blitzed by the light?

Good night all, and thanks again for reading. Bed time for me, once this smoke is done!

Zabka

...I had written this on the 13th/14th, if my age reckoning was correct, but evidently didn't post it! I was confused as hell because even though I wrote that whilst pretty baked, I could remember replying to both comments. Luckily, the auto-remember reply button thing saved me again! Sorry if it looked like I had ignored all the advice. Now it is day 18-19 and I don't really know how things are going...

Antics has since posted a really cool overview of the effects of topping/FIM and LST on his journal for our benefit - check it out (it is now a few posts up since I didn't visit for a few days) if you're also unsure if whether or not to do this on your first grow (or if you just want to see some pretty plants): Antics Power Flower - Cali Jack FIM Grow :thanks: It has successfully convinced us both to chop something off the pair of them. Now it's just down to how much, and when! Probably we'll decide on the spur of the moment, like fools would. Although every plan I make seems to fail, so not planning could be to our advantage.

So...the plants did pretty well for a while, but yesterday disaster struck. They'd been growing steadily and have their 4th set of true leaves expanding. But they had been looking a bit curled under, and growth slowed. Then yesterday Eulalia's bottom true leaves and seed leaves were yellow. The seed leaves were worse, but I know those usually fall off anyway. The single blade leaves weren't too bad, but pale yellow was spreading from the tips upward. The first leaves were the most bent on both plants. Winifred's leaves were less yellow, but one had some kind of damage - like a little cut or bruise on one side - and some newer growth had tiny patches of brown/orange which shone, almost as if it was sticky. I'd noticed this on two of the 3-bladed leaves when they were new, but it was localised to one area of the plant and I figured that we'd sprayed water on it by mistake. Now it appears on another couple of leaves, too, although the spots are still almost too small to see.

From what information I could find online, it looked like Eulalia had N deficiency and Winifred possibly some kind of micronutrient. I suspected either lack of nutes, pH issues or the plants being root bound. My partner was incapacitated (darn beer!), and I didn't want to try transplanting alone, and the pH looks all right considering I don't really know what I'm doing and I have very basic equipment (soil states 6.0, dechlorinated water approx. 7.0, runoff between 6 and 7). So I mixed up a 25% strength solution of the weakest recommended concentration of grow A & B, Multi Total, and Take Root (pH looked the same as tap water). I know, adding nutes is usually a bad idea. I just wanted to do something...they looked so hungry and sad, and they were almost due a water anyway...I got somewhat dubious consent from the girlfriend, then administered the weak food.

They didn't look any worse today, so hopefully this has not killed them. Eulalia's yellowing leaves actually look a darker green on the patches which weren't yellow yet, and both plants have visibly grown, particularly the tiny new leaves between the nodes. The 'sticky' patches on Winfred haven't got any bigger, either. Regardless, my GF was unhappy with them and we decided to transplant to our final pots (at least 5x bigger than the current ones, I reckon). All through the new growth, everything's been very tight together, kind of bunched up. I know it's good to have short spaces between nodes when height is an issue, but how close together is too close together? Yes, we need photos. Argh!

We drilled side holes and used the same earth as they were initially planted in. Eulalia didn't want to come out of her little pot and half the root ball was kind of hanging out and looked a bit torn, so we're hoping that she will be OK after a few days' rest. Winifred eventually relented and slid out intact. I think the GF made a good call on the transplant. The roots weren't too noticeable at the edges of the pot, but curled around at the bottom. They looked very white and healthy! We didn't water the big pots, as the soil felt kind of damp and they'd only been fed yesterday. When they next need it, it'll be plain water as they can probably find some food in the new soil. I hope! Since the roots won't fill the pot for a while, should we still saturate it until we get runoff, or use less water at the beginning?

So...yeah...I hope they are still alive in a few days...still not got any pictures, unfortunately. Bag seed is just about still with us. The leaves are totally deformed and still a bit purple. It's still far behind the others in terms of growth. Not sure what's up with it. Maybe because it never had the side drains, or maybe because it's further from the light? It is growing a bit more since the food, though - we didn't want to leave it out...ha, ha, maybe I should say 'leaf' it out...no?...

Erm. Well, thanks for reading again, and sorry again about the no pictures, and the double update. I'll be back as soon as something happens. Or we get a camera. Wish us luck...

Zabka
 
Your CFLs will work fine. But I'd suggest setting a couple goals per plant. And set them lower too, so you're not disappointed.

Try a goal like this:
MINIMUM of 7g per plant
PREFER 14-21g per plant
WOULD LOVE 28g per plant

Like my goal presently for PF is 14, 21, and 28.
For CJ I set the goal 21, 28, and anything over that = Happy time.

Once you have your first grow complete, you'll know first hand what X days Veg, plus Flower, with your lights, watering, nutes, and overall environment will produce.

If you jump right in with an attitude of "Oh well fuck all I want 10 ounces per plant or this growing can take the piss" you'll be disappointed if you don't reach the goal.

You need a baseline grow to see what you produce. So set the goals lower, and it will guarantee you have less pressure, and it will let you focus more on the grow, and learning.

Right now you're learning, so if you produce 1 gram it's more than worthwhile. You gain knowledge, and a little smoke.

My CJ is bolting now (Female pollen sacs), so keep an eye out for those later in your grow.

Doing a top at the same time on both plants is the best route. It's not going to kill them at all. millions of people do it without a problem.
The only LST you can do is you'd then have to bend the whole top down. Top 'em both at the same time.

What more evidence does she need? The forum is filled with grow journals that were completely successful when plants were topped.

Usually when the plant is growing 4 big leaves is when I transplant. I start my seeds in small solo cup size pots though. Transplant time will depend on your container size.

I need some pics for the leaves lol.

I use a moisture meter inserted about 20cm. Lifting the pots in addition to a moisture meter will help you learn when they're ready for water.

Roots grow down, and outward.

Bone dry top layer, and I like just a little residual moistureso they don't wilt. You can test moisture with a new wooden pencil, sharpen it a little and pike it into the soil up to the eraser. Leave it in for 1 minute then take it out. Use your finger and thumb to wipe off the dirt and feel its moisture level. Also look at the exposed wood tip to see if you have any moisture being absorbed into the wood.

We need pictures. Desperately. It's difficult to diagnose these problems without a picture.


Did you test your PH before feeding nutes?
 
Yellowing from the bottom up at a young age makes me think nitrogen. Possible lock out, i dont know whats in the soil you used. You have obviously done your research.
There is a good deficiency chart I have seen on this site that could help you out huge while you're waiting on a camera.
I agree with antics on lowering the light, mine is about 2" away when my girls are in veg. I blow a fan inbetween the canopy and the light.
Topping is a great idea! I recently started to top twice,I cut off the sixth set ov leaves then the 2nd or 3rd off of those tops. This makes a nice bush with many tops. I don't tie them down.
There is a way to check your runoff also. I can't say for sure but I know you can find it here. I think you just make a soup and let it sit for a while.
I have a journal going but it's all outside for now.
I'll be starting my indoors back up soon so I'll be right behind you.


Oh yeah I use a shot glass and a turkey baster to measure nutes, just make sure to rinse them out good.
 
Your CFLs will work fine. But I'd suggest setting a couple goals per plant. And set them lower too, so you're not disappointed.

Try a goal like this:
MINIMUM of 7g per plant
PREFER 14-21g per plant
WOULD LOVE 28g per plant

Like my goal presently for PF is 14, 21, and 28.
For CJ I set the goal 21, 28, and anything over that = Happy time.

Once you have your first grow complete, you'll know first hand what X days Veg, plus Flower, with your lights, watering, nutes, and overall environment will produce.

If you jump right in with an attitude of "Oh well fuck all I want 10 ounces per plant or this growing can take the piss" you'll be disappointed if you don't reach the goal.

You need a baseline grow to see what you produce. So set the goals lower, and it will guarantee you have less pressure, and it will let you focus more on the grow, and learning.

Right now you're learning, so if you produce 1 gram it's more than worthwhile. You gain knowledge, and a little smoke.

My CJ is bolting now (Female pollen sacs), so keep an eye out for those later in your grow.

Doing a top at the same time on both plants is the best route. It's not going to kill them at all. millions of people do it without a problem.
The only LST you can do is you'd then have to bend the whole top down. Top 'em both at the same time.

What more evidence does she need? The forum is filled with grow journals that were completely successful when plants were topped.

Usually when the plant is growing 4 big leaves is when I transplant. I start my seeds in small solo cup size pots though. Transplant time will depend on your container size.

I need some pics for the leaves lol.

I use a moisture meter inserted about 20cm. Lifting the pots in addition to a moisture meter will help you learn when they're ready for water.

Roots grow down, and outward.

Bone dry top layer, and I like just a little residual moistureso they don't wilt. You can test moisture with a new wooden pencil, sharpen it a little and pike it into the soil up to the eraser. Leave it in for 1 minute then take it out. Use your finger and thumb to wipe off the dirt and feel its moisture level. Also look at the exposed wood tip to see if you have any moisture being absorbed into the wood.

We need pictures. Desperately. It's difficult to diagnose these problems without a picture.


Did you test your PH before feeding nutes?

Nice one! I think we have this sorted. We will be happy to get the plants through to the end alive, and be able to smoke something nobody has paid for :D Ideally, we would reap between 12 and 18g per plant, as this would return our investment in full on the first harvest in money saved. We're not expecting this, but it would be great. Anything more than that would be an utter bonus. If we succeed on this and subsequent grows, and go on to eventually invest in better equipment and get a decent thing going, I would aspire for 6oz per harvest to ensure we always have a nicely cured smoke available...or a seperate veg area and more, small harvests per year. But this is a pipe dream right now! Anything we get will be appreciated. Even if it ends up being a fast class in how to kill plants this time around...

Bolting - is that like a hermaphrodite thing or am I thinking about something totally different? Sorry I am a blatant noob. If so we will keep an eye out though, thank you. We're gonna be extra vigilant because we're worried about Free Weed being male. Might be good if it does, just so we know what to look out for before culling...her. Positive thinking and all that...

I know we probably sound daft on the topping, but there are so many variables in a first grow that intentionally injuring the plant sounds kind of overwhelming at first. But we now realise that the worst that could happen is a week extra in veg, then no noticeable difference, and the best case scenario would be a lovely sea of little buds over the top of the tent. I think it will be some way off, though. The plants look worse to me. GF thinks they look better. Photos of last three days - mainly Winifred (BC) due to the pot positions when taking photos - to follow.

That pencil tip is pretty cool. Now I just need a pencil...damn! Everything in this house uses ink or electricity to write. We did have one pencil, but the cats massacred it. We did leave the pots to get pretty dry. We watered last night (one day after transplant) and were worried it was too soon, but the plants look a bit perkier today, so we're hoping that means overwatering is not the issue. But hopefully you and anyone else out there will have a better idea than us!

We've tested the plain water (~7) before feeding and runoff (~6.5) on each pot on every watering. The soil bag states 6, and this was confirmed as accurately as possible with litmus paper after making a muddy soup today. The main problem with identifying the pH is that the difference between 6 and 7 on the chart is nominal compared to all other values, and the paper is coloured similarly to a result of about 5.5, so it's really hard to tell whether it's just over 6, just under/over 7...it does look vaguely in the middle, so we're going with 6.5 for the moment...would it cause lockout at like 6.1? The nute solution looked the same pH as the regular water - it was a really weak solution, about 2.5ml/litre over the three products used and 25% strength of the weakest recommended dose. We fed once only, on the last watering before transplant.

Yellowing from the bottom up at a young age makes me think nitrogen. Possible lock out, i dont know whats in the soil you used. You have obviously done your research.
There is a good deficiency chart I have seen on this site that could help you out huge while you're waiting on a camera.
I agree with antics on lowering the light, mine is about 2" away when my girls are in veg. I blow a fan inbetween the canopy and the light.
Topping is a great idea! I recently started to top twice,I cut off the sixth set ov leaves then the 2nd or 3rd off of those tops. This makes a nice bush with many tops. I don't tie them down.
There is a way to check your runoff also. I can't say for sure but I know you can find it here. I think you just make a soup and let it sit for a while.
I have a journal going but it's all outside for now.
I'll be starting my indoors back up soon so I'll be right behind you.


Oh yeah I use a shot glass and a turkey baster to measure nutes, just make sure to rinse them out good.

Hi Grim, welcome to our journal and thanks for posting. We have looked at many charts and believed it to be an N deficiency also. At first we thought they may have used up all available N in the soil, and fed. The soil is Canna Terra. Its stated ingredients are peat, Perlite, dolomitic lime, and mineral NPK fertiliser (12-14-24) at 1.5kg/m3. Do you think that the fertiliser within the soil has caused the issue? I don't understand why it only presented itself so recently, if this is the case. We noticed a couple of new symptoms and did consider lockout. Soil pH is supposedly 6, water pH approx 7, and runoff somewhere between the two. I have a sinking feeling we'll need to invest in a more accurate means of testing...

We have tried to research as much as possible, but we still have no idea what to do!

We have lowered the light since transplanting. If the plants don't complain, we might lower it a little more! We have two small fans circulating air around the plants/bulb. Temps are pretty stable right now - 23-26C in the day and around 21C at night. Humidity sits at around 52% now the bigger pots are in there.

Good luck with your current and future grow! We have a holiday weekend coming up, so I should have a good bit of time for reading some new journals and will have a gander at your outdoor. I'd love to try it one summer but I don't think we have the weather for it here...

The turkey baster sounds pretty good, with the rigid long pipette type thing...must be ace for getting to the bottom of the bottles! We have syringes and tubing which allow accurate measurements, but it is a pain in the arse.

OK, so a small update. The plants looked about the same after their transplant. Yesterday, they looked a little dry (it had been a couple of days since their feed and they were in bigger pots) so we gave them plain water. Not a full watering, only about 500ml per plant. Just enough to dampen all the soil. GF misted all the soil while I protected their little leaves from the spray, relatively successfully. Once all the topsoil was totally moist, we poured through the remainder and got a bare drip or two from each pot. Runoff result was normal. We also transplanted Free Weed, and just kind of soaked the soil for comparison's sake (she does have side drains in the new pot, though - woohoo!).

Today, they looked straighter and less curled, so we hoped the water had done good and was not the culprit. But both our big girls' first true leaves have brown/black patches over the yellow. The patches are visible from the underside of the leaves but only in the sense that they appear to block the light. Brown patches now appear on W's second leaves too. We can't find evidence of a pest. The tiny yellow patches first seen on W now appear on E's third leaves.

Despite this, W is loving the light, turning towards it. Both plants' new growth looks healthy and they are now growing at a better rate again, especially the new internodal growth. The yellow leaves feel dry, coarse, and brittle, and some of the other older leaves are, while not yet yellow, a paler green and drier to the touch. While both plants' first leaves drooped down, now the tips of E's have started to curl upwards markedly (just visible on one pic, but worse on last tent visit).

Here are pictures so you can see what the hell I'm banging on about. There are more pictures of W. To avoid horrendous glare, it's necessary to get the bulb in the picture to a decent extent. No idea why or how to prevent this. This means it's really hard to get pics at another angle, and W's been at the front throughout my crap photo shoots.

Free Weed, by the way, may be stunted and small and fallen over and twisted as anything, but her colour is much better and she looks free of brown patches thus far. There is something that looks suspiciously like a bite missing out of one leaf, though...

Day_18_BS-E-W.jpg
Day_18_E_W.jpg
Day_18_W1.jpg
Day_18_W2.jpg
Day_19_BS.jpg
Day_19_W-E-BS1.jpg
Day_19_W-E-BS2.jpg
Day_19_W.jpg
Day_20_BS.jpg
Day_20_E-B-W.jpg
Day_20_W1.jpg
Day_20_W2.jpg
Day_20_W3.jpg
Day_20_W4.jpg
Day_20_W5.jpg


All the single images are Winifred, except the obvious bag seed pics, and the badly-lit yellow leaf, which is Eulalia. The first four photos are day 18, the next three day 19, and the rest day 20. The black specks are bits of soil which fell on the plants whilst repotting.

We are totally confused now and not sure which of these scenarios is most accurate, if any. Any input or advice is welcome.

A: The plants were root bound and will slowly recover in new pots. We should continue watering as usual, gradually add nutes, and hope that we caught them early enough to save.
B: The plants are deficient in several nutrients, and need more nutes ASAP.
C: Nutrients are available, but locked out by pH issues. We should invest in more accurate equipment and alter the pH accordingly. I have a feeling this is the culprit but cannot understand why it's only an issue now when results seem consistent. Can hydro pH up/down be used in soil? Should we use solution designed by the same company as the nutes?
D: The black/brown patches are caused by burn after lower leaves were left damp during spraying. If this was the case, wouldn't some higher growth be affected too?
E: The black/brown patches are mould, caused by water or contact with soil, or evidence of some parasite.
F: Transplanting the plants whilst sick has further damaged them, and E suffered more due to root damage.
G: The plants are suffering toxicity of some kind of nutrient - but surely they would have reacted more negatively to the feed? How long does it usually take to become apparent that you made a poor decision?

Unless we are advised otherwise, we'll likely get the cheapest pH pen available with decent reviews and try to alter pH on the next watering. Or should we do it ASAP? We don't want to drown the poor things in an attempt to correct pH, but don't want to leave them to dry out if this will make the soil more acidic. If anyone reckons it's unlikely to be pH related, please say so - if the pen can be avoided, it would be ideal.

Once leaves turn yellow, can they recover or is this a natural death process? Should we remove the leaves or wait until no green remains/let them fall off alone?

I'm going to go now, before I drive myself insane!

Good night, and thanks for reading. :thanks:

Zabka
 
I've been on the back of a minivan for twelve hours and have to get to bed so pardony short answer.
My suggestion would be straight water for a few days/week and see what happens.
I don't know what Take Root is but if it is a B vitamin or seaweed I might try some of that.
From what I've heard pH isn't as crucial in soil as it is in coco/hydro growing.
I know you've read it before but with small plants it usually need less not more of anything.
Great job I can't get my wife to go near my girls it's good you two are on this journey together.
 
I've been on the back of a minivan for twelve hours and have to get to bed so pardony short answer.
My suggestion would be straight water for a few days/week and see what happens.
I don't know what Take Root is but if it is a B vitamin or seaweed I might try some of that.
From what I've heard pH isn't as crucial in soil as it is in coco/hydro growing.
I know you've read it before but with small plants it usually need less not more of anything.
Great job I can't get my wife to go near my girls it's good you two are on this journey together.

Any answer is greatly appreciated, short or no! Especially one like this, which I think we needed. Chill the hell out and try not to fuck them up any more, eh? Sounds like a plan! :thanks:

I was considering the Take Root. It doesn't clearly say exactly what it is, but from what I can gather it's good for cloning or recovering from stress. Eulalia's roots were quite badly damaged during the transplant, and there's a marked difference in the plants now (she did start to yellow first and more dramatically before the transplant). Now, Winifred's upper leaves are much flatter and more rigid, where Eualalia's still curve downwards.

Yeah, I was hoping we'd get away with the pH, which is why we invested a grand total of 65p on some litmus paper rather than anything more advanced. Hopefully it's not pH related. Really don't want to open that can of worms but feel like we should at least acknowledge the possibility.

It was actually her idea to grow! The thought had crossed my mind before, but considering my lousy track record with plants I always figured they would just die. She usually has a good touch, though, so when she said we could do it together I jumped on it. I'm really happy I'm not alone. That would suck balls. She's keeping me sane!

Things are about the same today. The first set of leaves is totally ruined on both plants and will certainly die. The second set are looking to be heading the same way. I was initially convinced that this was N-related, but having read some details on magnesium deficiency (not just looking fearfully at pictures) I'm wondering if that may be the culprit? The original 'sticky' patches on Winifred, which are now visible on Eulalia too, resemble the image, but the description seems to match their current state pretty well:

Interveinal yellowing, irregular rust-brown spots on older leaves
Leaf tips turn brown and curl upwards

Has anyone had experience of this deficiency occuring in young plants? Does it seem likely? If we foliar feed with Epsom salts and Mg deficiency is not the issue, could we make things worse?

A few pictures to finish (Day 21):


Winifred, looking fairly lively at the top
Day_21_-_W4.jpg

One of Winifred's second leaves
Day_21_-_W3.jpg

Winifred's worst affected leaf, from the first node. The edge has crumbled away
Day_21_-_W2.jpg

Winifred, with bag seed just visible
Day_21_-_W1.jpg

Eulalia, looking a bit droopy and pathetic :(
Day_21_-_E4.jpg

Eulalia's first leaf, curling up at the tips
Day_21_-_E3.jpg

One of Eulalia's second leaves
Day_21_-_E2.jpg

Eulalia's top growth. It's slower than Winifred's but still going. In real life it looks greener and less yellow, but the littlest leaves are a reddish colour...
Day_21_-_E1.jpg

Bag seed, looking as crazy and weird as ever
Day_21_-_BS.jpg


Any thoughts, comments, questions? Post! Post! Please! :cheertwo:

Thanks again, guys.

Zabka
 
Your babies look like their getting settled in. Plenty of time to work the bugs out and pretty soon you'll know pretty much exactly what they want. Ive been going strong for a couple years now and im just now starting to recocnize what they need and when. Ot was alot of trial and error, but mostly help from this site. I just recently signed up but have been lurking for a while.

I'm pretty sure Epsom salt will be fine for them.
I have used it before for Mg issues and it worked great.
I run mostly coco and add CalMag but sometimes it's not enough.
I have noticed that the CalMag doesn't flush out totally so I use very little.
I do a two week flush when using salt based ferts.

Make sure the light isn't on them when you foliar feed, I usually blow a fan directly on them to dry out.
 
Your babies look like their getting settled in. Plenty of time to work the bugs out and pretty soon you'll know pretty much exactly what they want. Ive been going strong for a couple years now and im just now starting to recocnize what they need and when. Ot was alot of trial and error, but mostly help from this site. I just recently signed up but have been lurking for a while.

I'm pretty sure Epsom salt will be fine for them.
I have used it before for Mg issues and it worked great.
I run mostly coco and add CalMag but sometimes it's not enough.
I have noticed that the CalMag doesn't flush out totally so I use very little.
I do a two week flush when using salt based ferts.

Make sure the light isn't on them when you foliar feed, I usually blow a fan directly on them to dry out.

Hey, thanks again for the calming words. We're glad nobody advised us to do anything extreme, because we'd likely have done it out of panic and killed the poor things!

They are looking somewhat better. Aside from the previously affected leaves, there are only one or two tiny, tiny spots showing (visible on one of the pictures below). Growth has sped up considerably. They were watered just after transplant (day 19 or 20) and we watered again today (day 24) as the pots were pretty light and the top soil very dry. No nutes, no root stuff, no pH up or down. We still haven't invested in the pH pen, unfortunately. Runoff and water levels look to be about the same, judging by the litmus.

I tried to find Epsom salts but could only find something called Andrew's salts, which also contained citric acid and something else, so we decided against it. Probably we will order Epsom salts online if I can't find any in a pharmacy once bank holiday is over and done. I was wary of using calmag as some things I read stated that excess calcium can prevent Mg uptake. But then again, it's really hard to know what is true and what is a load of bollocks! Regardless, we thought that foliar would pose less of an issue regarding soil pH or salt buildup. We were planning on doing it just at lights off, if we do manage to procure some Epsom salts (and I really hope so, because whilst Googling them I saw they are meant to give epically relaxing baths...I love a spliff in the bath, and this sounds like an excellent enhancer). There are a couple of small fans blowing on the girls, so hopefully they'd dry out all right in 6 hours.

We have some photos from Day 22, and some from today. I will post plant by plant for the best measure of growth; sorry about the crap angles on some of them. I know it's uberly shite to take portrait photos, but it's the only way to see anything sometimes in that tent. If someone's thinking of buying a tent, I'd advise them to buy bigger than they think they need, if possible. I reckon it'd be well easier to control temps, and moving the plants around/watering/fan placement etc. would be simpler by half.


First, Bag Seed on day 22:
Day_22_-_BS.jpg

And day 24:
Day_24_-_BS.jpg

Eulalia on day 22:
Day_22_-_E1.jpg
Day_22_-_E2.jpg

Day_22_-_E3.jpg

Eulalia on day 24:
Day_24_-_E1.jpg
Day_24_-_E2.jpg
Day_24_-_E3.jpg

Winifred, day 22:
Day_22_-_W3.jpg
Day_22_-_W2.jpg
Day_22_-_W1.jpg

Winifred, day 24 (1st pic shows latest damaged leaf, barely noticeable patches):
Day_24_-_W1.jpg
Day_24_-_W2.jpg
Day_24_-_W3.jpg

And group shots to finish - Eulalia, Bag Seed, Winifred - Day 22
Day_22_-_EBSW.jpg

Winifred, Bag Seed, Eulalia - Day 24
Day_24_-_WBSE.jpg


The last two pictures are a little misleading because I'm a goon who took them at different distances, but you can see the increase in size compared the the pots, and also the size of the bulb compared to the plants.

What do you guys think? Carry on with the water and maybe give some weak nutes in a week or so? We're feeling somewhat more positive right now...

Cheers all, and happy growing :thanks::rasta::yummy:

Zabka
 
There is a product called Azomite that a dearly missed member turned me on to.
It works as a great organic calMag you just scrape it into the soil.
I grow in coco which uses both calcium and Mg so I need to add with every watering.
I have noticed with the salt based calMag I taste it in the product even with a flush.
I have only a few harvests indoors ao everything I do is experimental.
There are so many different growing styles!!
Find what suits you and run with that.

I think you can start with 1/8 strength nutes.

Are you gonna top them?
 
Back
Top Bottom