Yellowing in veg

[SCD]

@Known How did the roots look when you transplanted last week?

 

[Keffka]

This is conserning indeed my friend.

Thats why i posted this photo because its bothering my head.

However i had seen in the past from other.grows the same nitrogen toxicity and i assume its because of the canna soil.

If you look at the other photos i posted you can see that this tip curl is visible only in the lower part of the plant. If it was serious toxicity wouldnt it be all over the plant? Also the leaves would be dark green, atleast at the lower part of the plants...

But indeed its worrying me as i am not that good on diagnosing this.

Have you seen anything like this before?

Do you have a fan blowing air directly on to the plant or is that a spot where the wind accumulates?

 

[SCD]

I wonder if the Dr. would be available for consult.
@Emilya Green What do you make of the last pic above, transplanted 9 days ago?

 

[zigzagman1960]

This is conserning indeed my friend.

Thats why i posted this photo because its bothering my head.

However i had seen in the past from other.grows the same nitrogen toxicity and i assume its because of the canna soil.

If you look at the other photos i posted you can see that this tip curl is visible only in the lower part of the plant. If it was serious toxicity wouldnt it be all over the plant? Also the leaves would be dark green, atleast at the lower part of the plants...

But indeed its worrying me as i am not that good on diagnosing this.

Have you seen anything like this before?

Sorry. Out of ideas.

 

[Known]

@Known How did the roots look when you transplanted last week?

They was ok. They spent a month in 1gallon pot. They was not root bounded but i didnt see any rot either.

Do you have a fan blowing air directly on to the plant or is that a spot where the wind accumulates?

There is a fan gently moving the canopy. Also there is the ac unit working for little bit when lights are off to keep the temps at 25c. The ac unit is on the side where these plants are. See below new photo i post with all the plants.

Sorry. Out of ideas.

We will get to something ziggy. If not we will learn something new for sure.

*Note: i have just see some bugs activity. Propably gnats. Been seen them before in my grows. I dont think they can cause much damage. Also its not a lot of them. I have yellow traps everywhere plus i have mosquito dunk bits to kill the larvae if i see its getting bad.

*Note 2: Here is a photo with all of them. On the right you can see the 9 plants lush green and on the left the other 9 looking kind of pale with 4 of them presenting the yellowing on the top and new growth.

 

[Emilya Green]

I wonder if the Dr. would be available for consult.
@Emilya Green What do you make of the last pic above, transplanted 9 days ago?

I think that it is more than just iron being deficient... where did the 700ppm number come from? That seems very low for plants this large. I think you are seeing an overall deficiency.

PH is funny with this soilless mix. It is NOT soil, so pH is designed to be set in the hydro range for all your incoming fluids, but pay close attention to the advice to be adjusting to different pH for different stages of the grow. The soil is buffered with lime, so in the beginning feel free to adjust down low, like 5.7 pH in the beginning. As the soil gets older and more used, the lime starts to get used up, so definitely increase the pH for the later stages as recommended above. 700 ppm is too low though, as indicated by your starving plants, so try 900 at first to see if the plants start to green back up. That is 900 ppm in RO water, just measuring the nutes. Pay no attention to what the tap water does to increase the ppm. As the plants get bigger, you will need to keep ramping this number up.

 

[Known]

I think that it is more than just iron being deficient... where did the 700ppm number come from? That seems very low for plants this large. I think you are seeing an overall deficiency.

PH is funny with this soilless mix. It is NOT soil, so pH is designed to be set in the hydro range for all your incoming fluids, but pay close attention to the advice to be adjusting to different pH for different stages of the grow. The soil is buffered with lime, so in the beginning feel free to adjust down low, like 5.7 pH in the beginning. As the soil gets older and more used, the lime starts to get used up, so definitely increase the pH for the later stages as recommended above. 700 ppm is too low though, as indicated by your starving plants, so try 900 at first to see if the plants start to green back up. That is 900 ppm in RO water, just measuring the nutes. Pay no attention to what the tap water does to increase the ppm. As the plants get bigger, you will need to keep ramping this number up.

This sounds about right.

700ppm (on the 500 converstion = 1.2 ec) i fed it was the canna vegas. Plus my water 150ppm, it was a total of 850ppm.

So i will go to 1000ppm total for the next feed and see how they look.

I have a hanna soil ph meter and i just calibrate it and took a reading of one of the plants on three different spots around the plant, near the stem base, and it shows me ph of 5.6 so yes you are right.

I will continue with a ph of 6, maybe 6.1

Glad to hear more solid answers on this.

Thanks emilya and friends!

I will keep posting photos in the coming days, hopefully we will see improvement.

I will tag you guys along to get notification.

Love y all

 

[Emilya Green]

This sounds about right.

700ppm (on the 500 converstion = 1.2 ec) i fed it was the canna vegas. Plus my water 150ppm, it was a total of 850ppm.

So i will go to 1000ppm total for the next feed and see how they look.

I have a hanna soil ph meter and i just calibrate it and took a reading of one of the plants on three different spots around the plant, near the stem base, and it shows me ph of 5.6 so yes you are right.

I will continue with a ph of 6, maybe 6.1

Glad to hear more solid answers on this.

Thanks emilya and friends!

I will keep posting photos in the coming days, hopefully we will see improvement.

I will tag you guys along to get notification.

Love y all

The total ppm of the water is not so important, but the amounts of nutes in that water is. If your water is 150ppm or 300 ppm, it doesnt matter. Add 900 ppm of nutes to it and call it good.

If you continue with a pH of 6.1, I think you will continue to have troubles. If you water with 6.1, within moments the plants will use some of the nutes in that mix, and the pH of your system will start to rise up into the soil range. You don't want it to rise up into the soil range, because your nutes will lose effectiveness. Start lower, I strongly suggest 5.8 pH. This will keep you down in the hydro range for a longer time, and you will get that much more response from your nutes.

The pH of your soil is fixed. Stop trying to adjust it. Water at the correct pH for your nutes to be available to the plants, not to try to somehow adjust your soil. Know that your soilless mix was made to work at a lower pH. It is so much easier to adjust your fluids to the correct range, instead of fighting pH wars with your soil buffers, trying to turn it into something that it is not. Use the stuff as it was designed to be used, instead of what someone on the internet is trying to tell you to do. Both methods will work, but what I am suggesting is a whole lot easier to implement.

 

[Known]

The total ppm of the water is not so important, but the amounts of nutes in that water is. If your water is 150ppm or 300 ppm, it doesnt matter. Add 900 ppm of nutes to it and call it good.

If you continue with a pH of 6.1, I think you will continue to have troubles. If you water with 6.1, within moments the plants will use some of the nutes in that mix, and the pH of your system will start to rise up into the soil range. You don't want it to rise up into the soil range, because your nutes will lose effectiveness. Start lower, I strongly suggest 5.8 pH. This will keep you down in the hydro range for a longer time, and you will get that much more response from your nutes.

The pH of your soil is fixed. Stop trying to adjust it. Water at the correct pH for your nutes to be available to the plants, not to try to somehow adjust your soil. Know that your soilless mix was made to work at a lower pH. It is so much easier to adjust your fluids to the correct range, instead of fighting pH wars with your soil buffers, trying to turn it into something that it is not. Use the stuff as it was designed to be used, instead of what someone on the internet is trying to tell you to do. Both methods will work, but what I am suggesting is a whole lot easier to implement.

You seem to know cannas soil or you worked something similar.

Are you suggesting to stick to 5.8 even in flowering?

 

[Emilya Green]

You seem to know cannas soil or you worked something similar.

Are you suggesting to stick to 5.8 even in flowering?

No... you even said that "they" suggest a little higher pH in bloom. The lime does deplete somewhat and the upward drift wears out over time. In VEG the drift is dramatic, so you come in lower. In bloom, the peat is almost stabilized and coming in a little higher doesn't hurt.

Read these posts again... here is your expert and you should pay close attention to what he has to say:

If you are using canna soil need to go in at about 5.8 with you feed. Sounds counter productive but used their soil for years. Unless you are using canna nutes it can get hard to find a happy medium, defo think they do it on purpose so it’s a canna only grow

Here is what you said, and these words seemed to be valid too, after reviewing what this soilless mix is, and how it is recommended to use it. Hopefully I am explaining why.

They say to use 5.8 in the begining of seedling.

Late veg at 6 and end the flowering at 6.2

 

[Keffka]

I think a miscommunication happened where @JoetheChro said “unless you are using canna nutes” kind of makes it seem like if you use canna nutes you’ve got a larger margin. Regardless OP, You’re 9/10 gonna be best going with someone who has used your exact medium (and it sounds like nute line.. that person is joe)

 

[Mountainman80]

Trying to understand what is up with my girls.

I have transplanted them in 5g fabrics with new soil of canna pro plus (1.2 ec) and just gave them ph'ed 6 water at 150ppm ( ro water buffered with tap water ).

They are 40 days old from sprout.

They took the transplant good but the last days i see them becoming yellow especially on the top part of the plant.

I watered yesterday with 700ppm of canna veg nutrients plus the 150ppm water = 850ppm at ph = 6

There are 18 plants, 9 under each led. The problem is only under one of the leds.

The other 9 plants under the other led have a nice green color and they had the same treatment as the others.

Here you can see in the photos...

Could be hungry for nitrogen

 

[Known]

No... you even said that "they" suggest a little higher pH in bloom. The lime does deplete somewhat and the upward drift wears out over time. In VEG the drift is dramatic, so you come in lower. In bloom, the peat is almost stabilized and coming in a little higher doesn't hurt.

Read these posts again... here is your expert and you should pay close attention to what he has to say:


Here is what you said, and these words seemed to be valid too, after reviewing what this soilless mix is, and how it is recommended to use it. Hopefully I am explaining why.

I must have thought that you was saying to use the low ph value throughout the grow

Reading again this thread now in the morning it came to my mind a conversation i had with a canna representative amost 2 years ago.

He said the hormones of the plant change during flower and the soil requires higher ph of 6.1 , 6.2 to apply different elements to the roots.

Also @Emilya Green what you are saying makes sense because we wash out everything from the soil with that 20% run off during the grow and the lime particles reduces.

What i dont understand tho is why canna is saying that if you use cannazyme you can reuse their mediums. (*Quotw from their site:

• When reusing the medium; double the dose for 1-2 weeks)

 

[Known]

If you are using canna soil need to go in at about 5.8 with you feed. Sounds counter productive but used their soil for years. Unless you are using canna nutes it can get hard to find a happy medium, defo think they do it on purpose so it’s a canna only grow

@JoetheChro did you try 6 to 6.2 for flower phase also and you find out that 5.8 for the whole grow.was better?

 

[Known]

Could be hungry for nitrogen

For sure they was hungry man!

I think i understand what happened...

I vegged for a month in those 1g pots and they got inside fresh soil allready being big.

I usually transplant on the 3rd week or when i see root show on the bottom of the 1g plastic pot.

The other nine plants under the other light is still a headpuzzle why they still look healthy green. Maybe because they sprout 5 days after, when i germinated. If its like this then its time for them to start looking hungry.

 

[Known]

 

[Keffka]

What i dont understand tho is why canna is saying that if you use cannazyme you can reuse their mediums. (*Quotw from their site:

• When reusing the medium; double the dose for 1-2 weeks)

I have cannazym but haven’t used it yet so I decided to go look at it on their website. If I understand it correctly, the cannazym goes into the substrate and basically keeps it clean and efficient. It eats away the dead material and makes the nutrients available to your plant while leaving the substrate aerated in the spot the dead material was. By doing this it keeps the bacteria and pathogens down that would seize on the dead material, and keeps the substrate healthy and working.

I think depending on your substrate that you’re using this could have different effects on the benefits of reusing. The way I interpret it is, in my soil, it will go in and breakdown any dead matter in the soil turning it into valuable nutrients which will allow me to reuse my medium.. The extra nutrients aren’t even the big sell, it’s the fact that it will breakdown all of the dead and decaying matter making my soil a viable medium if I add a few amendments.

 

[Known]

I have cannazym but haven’t used it yet so I decided to go look at it on their website. If I understand it correctly, the cannazym goes into the substrate and basically keeps it clean and efficient. It eats away the dead material and makes the nutrients available to your plant while leaving the substrate aerated in the spot the dead material was. By doing this it keeps the bacteria and pathogens down that would seize on the dead material, and keeps the substrate healthy and working.

I think depending on your substrate that you’re using this could have different effects on the benefits of reusing. The way I interpret it is, in my soil, it will go in and breakdown any dead matter in the soil turning it into valuable nutrients which will allow me to reuse my medium.. The extra nutrients aren’t even the big sell, it’s the fact that it will breakdown all of the dead and decaying matter making my soil a viable medium if I add a few amendments.

Hey friend!

Just finished a massive burger and having my beer. Weather is beautiful too.

I am using cannas soil. Professional and professional plus.

I was wondering if it needs to be ammended with lime because canna states that if you use cannazym you can reuse the soil?

 

[Keffka]

Hey friend!

Just finished a massive burger and having my beer. Weather is beautiful too.

I am using cannas soil. Professional and professional plus.

I was wondering if it needs to be ammended with lime because canna states that if you use cannazym you can reuse the soil?

Any time you re use a soil medium you’re most likely going to have to amend it with something. Different strains and even different phenotypes require different resources so it’s hard to give a hard and fast rule on any of it. Your medium doesn’t sound like a traditional soil medium to me, I would have no reason to ph my water let alone ph it below 6.3, so I can’t comment on your specific type. I also don’t use liquid fertilizers or liquid nutes either.

Can you tell me the exact name of your medium so I can look it up?

 

[Known]

Any time you re use a soil medium you’re most likely going to have to amend it with something. Different strains and even different phenotypes require different resources so it’s hard to give a hard and fast rule on any of it. Your medium doesn’t sound like a traditional soil medium to me, I would have no reason to ph my water let alone ph it below 6.3, so I can’t comment on your specific type. I also don’t use liquid fertilizers or liquid nutes either.

Can you tell me the exact name of your medium so I can look it up?

It is canna professional and sometimes i use canna professional plus (canna professional is 1ec and pro plus is 1.2ec )

The thing is that canna advertise cannazym as something to use with their soils so that you can re use them.

But they dont state anywhere if you need to add lime, what kind of lime and how much quantity if you going to re use their soil.

They just say use cannazym if you going to re use our soil. Thats it.