Yellowing in early flower

[josep90]

Hello,

last 7 rounds have trouble with yellowing during flowering time. All big leaves yellowing.

What Strain is it? greenhouse super lemon haze and super silver haze
Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages? 70% SATIVA - 30% INDICA
How Many Plants? 10
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? flower
If in Flowering Stage... How Long? 24 days
Indoor or Outdoor? indoor
Soil or Hydro? soil
If Soil... What is in your Mix? 40% soil cana professional mix, 40% coco, 20% perlite
If Soil... What Size Pot? 18L 4gal
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? mars hydro fce 4800- 3x 450watt? 1350watt
Is it Air Cooled? AC
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? 27-30C
RH of Room/Cabinet? 50-60%
PH of Medium or Reservoir? 6,3
Any Pests? no
How Often are you Watering? 4-5 days now
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? Plagron: calmag, terra bloom, sugar royal
Size or Square Footage of Room? 4x8 or 120x240

I have sealed room and co2 tank: 1000-1200ppm
water: RO

 

[013]

Hey 90,

First thing that jumped out at me was the mix
40% canna professional
40% coco coir
20% perlite

1) not familiar with the canna professional but consider this- coco coir and the perlite are totally inert. So that’s 60% of your mix that has absolutely zero nutrients to sustain a plant….

2) Also with coco it’s intended to be fed nutes every single day- plain water or plain ph adjusted water does nothing to help a plant grow in coco coir or perlite…

3) Further ph for coco should adjusted to the 5.8 range, for soil it should be set at 6.3

4) When ph is off (where ph range doesn’t match the actual grow media used) the nutrients are out of range so the plant can’t access those nutes…

the yellow is screaming that the plants are underfed…. so the 4 issues above will need to be addressed to turn things around. In the meantime- hang in here and we will get your garden patch all fixed up

Let’s get @Roy Growin to take a look….

 

[Roy Growin]

Nice grow room
They just look plain hungry to me, @013 advice is sound
Are your nutes specifically for soil or hydro?
That will determine required pH and in your mix, you should be using hydro nutes @5.8 - 6.0
A PK boost will likely help too

 

[SmokingWings]

If Soil... What is in your Mix? 40% soil cana professional mix, 40% coco, 20% perlite

First thing that jumped out at me was the mix
40% canna professional
40% coco coir
20% perlite

1) not familiar with the canna professional but consider this- coco coir and the perlite are totally inert. So that’s 60% of your mix that has absolutely zero nutrients to sustain a plant….

Could be 100%. So far I have come across 3 different products in the Canna Professional line--one is Peat Moss and the other two are variations of Coco Coir. Both the Peat and Coco are considered inert as is the Perlite so no matter the percentages used it will end up at 100% inert.

Yep, the yellow on just about all the leaves is a sign of lack of enough fertilizer/nutrients at a time in the plant's life cycle when the need a lot more than earlier.

How Often are you Watering? 4-5 days now
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? Plagron: calmag, terra bloom, sugar royal

Canna says that they put in enough quality fertilizer/nutrients to last 2 weeks and the plant probably used that up weeks ago.

The "Plagron Terra Bloom is the one that needs to be used on a regular basis, probably every watering as @013 mentions, and the Sugar Royal has to be worked into the schedule to slow down the nitrogen deficiency.

How often are you feeding if it is different than how often you are watering? And, what is the dosage of the fertilizers you are using each time?

 

[josep90]

Nice grow room
They just look plain hungry to me, @013 advice is sound
Are your nutes specifically for soil or hydro?

These are nutrients exactly for the soil.
In my country this is the most used fertilizer. We don't have many other options

Could be 100%. So far I have come across 3 different products in the Canna Professional line--one is Peat Moss and the other two are variations of Coco Coir. Both the Peat and Coco are considered inert as is the Perlite so no matter the percentages used it will end up at 100% inert.

Yep, the yellow on just about all the leaves is a sign of lack of enough fertilizer/nutrients at a time in the plant's life cycle when the need a lot more than earlier.


Canna says that they put in enough quality fertilizer/nutrients to last 2 weeks and the plant probably used that up weeks ago.

The "Plagron Terra Bloom is the one that needs to be used on a regular basis, probably every watering as @013 mentions, and the Sugar Royal has to be worked into the schedule to slow down the nitrogen deficiency.

How often are you feeding if it is different than how often you are watering? And, what is the dosage of the fertilizers you are using each time?

-I only use this round canna soil, before use plagron light mix and same ratio with coco and perlite

-I use every watering nutritions, but this round use only half dose from recommended from their schedule

-Now water with 0.8-0.9EC They told me that in the store and I tried

-I have given the last 6 rounds full dose with ec in flower 1.8-2.2
And every time have problem with yellow leaves and not happy plants.

I measured runoff EC and is always much bigger than run in.

When watter with full dose is ec 1,8ec: Cal/mag 0,4ec terra bloom 1,5ec and sugar royal is organic

 

[Roy Growin]

These are nutrients exactly for the soil.
In my country this is the most used fertilizer. We don't have many other options

In that case you should use just the soil with a bit of Perlite so your nutes work properly at pH 6.3

 

[SmokingWings]

In that case you should use just the soil with a bit of Perlite so your nutes work properly at pH 6.3

If I am understanding what is being done the 'soil' is not a traditional soil with an accepted good percentage of mineral materials, dirt (as in garden dirt, and partly decayed organic materials. It is just peat moss and coco coir which will have little to add even when they finally decompose over the next several years. And the Perlite is there to provide some structure and aeration to the soil but nothing in the way of nutrition.

Everything strikes me that it is a type of hydro grow except for the pH of the water.

And every time have problem with yellow leaves and not happy plants.

By the way the plants look in the photo and what has been said so far you have to feed more often at the full dose recommended. Otherwise you will continue to have the problems of yellow leaves and weak plants.

 

[013]

our plants don’t lie, the various factors add up to degrees of success or failure. The yellow is telling us there’s no gas in the tank, the soil is spent, heck it started out as spent… with at least 60% inert media…. so there’s 60 percent of the media is a place where roots can grow but there’s no actual food in that 60%, the other 40% only had 2 weeks worth of food..

soilless is merely place where roots can grow IF you supply everything else nutrient-wise that the plant needs.

let’s assume it’s mostly coco coir, peat moss and perlite. this kinda still puts you in soilless category and soilless gets treated as passive hydro with ph in the 5.8 range.

The other thing is feed frequency and strength, they are in flower so you should be feeding full strength at this point. When mixing your soup, run your water, add cal-mag first stir & wait 10 minutes, add your NPK stir & wait 10 minutes then adjust ph and feed right away. Plus you need to feed to slight runoff every time…. Calcium is known to drop out so it gets added first, mag helps power up chlorophyll. Don’t worry about runoff numbers, it’s your feed numbers that matter… don’t skimp on nute doses, cal-mag is a set of keys that allows your NPK to do its trick, they work in harmony…

But then there’s feed frequency - as far as I can remember you can’t or shouldn’t try to run wet dry cycle on soilless grow…soilless grow media should never dry out and you should be feeding nutes plus water every single day… up to 2 X per day in flower.

You can’t overwater in soilless… the excess feed water just runs off… kinda suspect your media is hydrophobic now by watering every 4 to 5 days… might help to go to hand watering instead of drip… or ensuring that the drippers and your timer are getting every container completely saturated.

if I recall correctly you actually need the 10% runoff for coco or soilless to work properly

You have drippers but do you have drainage such that you can have 10% runoff feed every day?

 

[SmokingWings]

our plants don’t lie, the various factors add up to degrees of success or failure. The yellow is telling us there’s no gas in the tank, the soil is spent, heck it started out as spent… with at least 60% inert media…. so there’s 60 percent of the media is a place where roots can grow but there’s no actual food in that 60%, the other 40% only had 2 weeks worth of food..

soilless is merely place where roots can grow IF you supply everything else nutrient-wise that the plant needs.

let’s assume it’s mostly coco coir, peat moss and perlite. this kinda still puts you in soilless category and soilless gets treated as passive hydro with ph in the 5.8 range.

The other thing is feed frequency and strength, they are in flower so you should be feeding full strength at this point. When mixing your soup, run your water, add cal-mag first stir & wait 10 minutes, add your NPK stir & wait 10 minutes then adjust ph and feed right away. Plus you need to feed to slight runoff every time…. Calcium is known to drop out so it gets added first, mag helps power up chlorophyll. Don’t worry about runoff numbers, it’s your feed numbers that matter… don’t skimp on nute doses, cal-mag is a set of keys that allows your NPK to do its trick, they work in harmony…

But then there’s feed frequency - as far as I can remember you can’t or shouldn’t try to run wet dry cycle on soilless grow…soilless grow media should never dry out and you should be feeding nutes plus water every single day… up to 2 X per day in flower.

You can’t overwater in soilless… the excess feed water just runs off… kinda suspect your media is hydrophobic now by watering every 4 to 5 days… might help to go to hand watering instead of drip… or ensuring that the drippers and your timer are getting every container completely saturated.

if I recall correctly you actually need the 10% runoff for coco or soilless to work properly

You have drippers but do you have drainage such that you can have 10% runoff feed every day?

Well put together and covers all the bases. And the basics, too.

 

[josep90]

-It is possible that the problem in the soil is then.

-Now i will try with only soil and perlite in vegi box.

-I will now mix plagron soil light mix and how much perlite? 10% or 20%?

-thank you all for answers. I will let you know over time what were the changes

 

[SmokingWings]

-It is possible that the problem in the soil is then.
-Now i will try with only soil and perlite in vegi box.
-I will now mix plagron soil light mix and how much perlite? 10% or 20%?
-thank you all for answers. I will let you know over time what were the changes

The best way to get the planting going is to cover a few bases right from the start.

The first question is "What do you mean when you say soil?"

 

[josep90]

The best way to get the planting going is to cover a few bases right from the start.

The first question is "What do you mean when you say soil?"

I don't know how to answer, but soil is what we have in the garden. I thought that if I buy soil like the Plagron brand, that's it.

Lightmix is for growing profitably and fertilizing your plants at your own insight. Isn't this okay if I add some perlite?

 

[Roy Growin]

I don't know how to answer, but soil is what we have in the garden. I thought that if I buy soil like the Plagron brand, that's it.

Lightmix is for growing profitably and fertilizing your plants at your own insight. Isn't this okay if I add some perlite?

You are right, just the Plagron soil is fine - don't then try to make it better with coco or perlite, just use it as is
So there is no guessing - it's soil nutes in soil pH 6.3-6.8 and bingo

 

[SmokingWings]

I don't know how to answer, but soil is what we have in the garden.

It is a good answer and what I had thought that you were thinking and what you are looking for when you want to be growing plants. Used by itself this garden 'dirt' and water is all that is needed to grow plants but it will work even better is when it is added to other materials.

I had the feeling that you are looking for a mix that will grow healthy plants without having to be constantly feeding extra fertilizers and nutrients.

There are several meanings to the "soil" you are thinking of. Garden dirt or garden soil or top soil contains the basics of sand, silt, clay, and organic materials in different stages of decay.

Then there are other materials that can be mixed in with the garden dirt to make it a better medium potting mix used for growing. That is when different types or grades of 'soil amendments" like Peat Moss, Coco Coir, sand, compost, Bio-Char, Perlite and several others can be considered and used.

I thought that if I buy soil like the Plagron brand, that's it.

The Plagron brand is a well known and respected company that makes several different potting mixes. However I do not think that it is what you are looking for. It is made of black peat, peat moss and some Perlite with a minimal amount of nutrients added--nothing else that I can find being mentioned. The company is up front when they say that the gardener has to start a fertilizing program after the first week.

You will be better off going back to the Canna Professional mix and not adding an additional Coco Coir. My belief is that adding more coco and Perlite is diluting the mix that the company built--it is not adding to or improving it.

I have the feeling that it was working for you and your plants were looking good and growing nicely until they were entering into the flowering stage. Then they started turning yellow, looking weak and growing slower. If you go back to the Canna product I believe that you will be better off.

When it comes to the fertilizers and nutrients being used consider changing when you switch over to a flowering schedule and the amounts in order to match the needs of the plants and the 'soil mix' they are growing in.