Why transplant?

F

Farang

Well-Known Member
someone please give me a simple answer as to why so many posters recommend a minimum of two transplants/cycle. I'm apparently missing a piece of the puzzle.

I've taken to using small bags for germination; but once the seedlings have developed their second or third set of leaves, they go immediately into their final container. they are not even close to being root bound or filled. I was germinating in the final container, but this took up a whole lot more space than the germinating bags. (I germinate outside, if knowing that is important.)

so I see the logic of using cups, small bags or containers to achieve a SOG seedling plat and, perhaps, only using one light. (I'm just switching to HPS from outdoor growing.) it's a space saver to cram more seedlings into a cramped area. the only way I can use up the space available to me would be to grow too many plants for the room. I have about a 12 x 12 room.

any time the roots are disturbed, there is a certain period of shock for the plant. it's under this theory that I (now) transplant only once: from seedling to final container.

other than space considerations, I don't see the value in multiple transplants.

please disabuse me of this notion with the theory/reason for the multiple transplants if it's not space.

thank you in advance.
 
Seeds/clones can not handle preloaded nutrient composts at first as this may cause nutrient burn !


Seeds & clones will prefer a compost more suitable for them a sterile & nutrient free compost is ideal for propergation early seedling develpment to vegetative growth of a few weeks.


Once young plants are of a suitable age & able to cope with stronger nutrients...


Transplant into final size pots & main growing medium/compost of choice... most brand name compost come with preloaded nutrients which may support plant growth for a few weeks.



I've seen countless post/threads with numpties planting seeds/clones straight into main grow composts... every one of them exhibits nutrient burn.



Root shock may only apply if the roots are damaged, this may stunt growth for a few to several days while new roots form/grow.

Potting up rarely cause's root shock & at best only a few days whilst existing root system spreads into new growing medium/container.
 
thanks for those responses.

tell me if I got what you're saying.

you have different pre-enriched soils for your different containers and the later one would burn the seedlings.

if that's true, I've got nothing to worry about.
 
Alright, I will jump into this discussion because I see no one has mentioned some of the more important reasons for multiple trannsplants.
First off I start with clones in 250ml cups, then go to 1 litre, then 1 gallon and finish in 3 gallon bags. They veg in the 3 gals for a week before going into bloom room. At each stage (using experience) I wait for the roots to thouroughly fill the medium before transplanting, I make sure not to allow the roots to get bound.

Now the question is why?

First off we must understand how roots grow. The tap root will only grow as long as the plant is high, or untill it reaches what it determans to be the "bottom", whichever comes first. When the tap root stops growing then the little side roots(hairs) begin to fill into the rest of the space. The side roots do 90% of the absorption of the water/nutes, so having more root hairs is going to allow more uptake, therefore developing these early will not only result in bigger root mass but also will allow the plant to uptake more nutes. I refer to this as a mature root ball, I want the roots to be fully mature by the time it goes to flower so it can work on building flowers not roots once the plant goes 12/12.
I will also take an opportunity to point out that the work "shock" is misused all to often. Shock is not always a bad thing. If your shoes are 2 sizes to small and you put on bigger boots it would be a shock, but you would be happy after the fact. Plants are similar, if there roots are too tight and you transplant to bigger pots it might be a "shock" but the plant will be much happier in more soil.

Now lastly I will point out the most important reason toi transplant up in pot size durring growth. This is a little hard to explain but I will try...
If I take a little plant and put it in a 5 gal pail, the plant will only require a little water around it to feed, but, if the tap root is growing down it will begin to grow into dry soil because you are only watering around the plant. If you water more then the medium will begin to dry from the top down and the main root ball will dry up and the tap root will keep growing down, and down, and down, requireing you to water the whole 5 gal of medium when it really only needs a fraction of that. This theory would work ok if you were growing in a long thin pipe but in a big container is is just wasted water. Now also we must consider that if the plant is only using a fraction of the water you give it then the remainder is evaporated into the air which raises the humidity.
Now alot of this next part can depend on nutes used but for the most part it applies across the board. Salt does not evaporate (dried salt lakes become salt flats). If the water is evaporating and not being used then the soil is being saturated with all the nutes that were in that soil. Each watering adds more and more until in about week 4-5 you start seeing problems as a result of this. Not only is the concentration of nutes way higher than it should be but it is also affecting the PH of the soil.
The first suggestion would be "flush the plants". Yes this is true but the damage is already done. Prior to each transplant that I do I give the plant a big flush... way easier in a small container than a large. Whenever you are using a soiless mix you should always, ALWAYS allow water to run through the bottom, this removes the build ups and keeps the PH constant. If you have a great big 5 gal pot you can not get a run off without saturating the soil whigh will take a week to dry.
This is also part of the problem. Stale water has very little oxygen! I want to make sure all the nutes in my pot are fresh, every 3 days I water. If you are only watering once a week cause your bucket is so big then the moisture they are getting is stale and has very little oxygen.
I could easily go on and on with this topic but I will wrap it up for now. If you think I am doing it wrong or that my way is incorrect, just understand that I have ran many many harvests and have done it both ways.... I stuck with the way that produced the best yeilds. Check my grow journal for other tips.

Thanx for allowing me to spend my 2 cents...

Jonny
 
wow. that was more like a buck and a half!

that's the clearest and best answer I've seen or heard.

I will switch to your method on my next grow.

thank you so much, Jonny!
 
I agree with Stilletto. My first grow I went straight from little pot to 3 gallon pot. I was only watering once a week therefore I was only able to give them nutes every other week, they still grew just not like they could have. Second grow I went from solo cup to 1/2 gallon to 1 gallon and then to three gallon was able to water about every three days all the way through so they got there nutes three times in 15 days instead of once 1n 14. Wow what a difference that made. I'm just saying!
 
just use air pots and no need to transplant. if u are growing large plants and want longer veg times then transplant, or transplant mothers. i never transplant and i get excellent yields. Just look after ur roots from the start and u be fine.
 
im with cultivator on this one..mostly ;)

i agree that if you put seedlings in massive pots, its possible to either not water enough of the soil and cause dry spots or water too much of the soil and cause stale water....However, this theory becomes totally irrelivant if you water very well every time with O2 enriched water.

smart pots and additives like perlite used in combination can make overwatering a virtual impossibility when using o2 water.


this thing about tap root and side roots ill have to disagree with. i use clear pots all the time and i have seen no such thing. latteral root branching happens regardless of a tap reaching the 'bottom'. i see side roots long before i see the tap root dropping out of my soil and into the h20 section (i grow hydroganic).

i start my seeds in solo cups then move them to my big pots at a later date. i do this for 2 reasons only
1 for seeds i run my soil mix through a seive...imagine the work of seiving 2 sacks of compost at a time!?
so i get a nice little cup of fine soil that i can just plug in to the main soil later.
2 i can start my seeds whenever i want, it only takes a few mins to prep a solo for a seed. this gives me all the time from germination to 2nd set of leaves to prepare my pots, which i do in batches of 20.

nothing i have encountered so far does more for great side branching than smart/air pots.

and to be honest, i would take cultivators advice over my own if i were someone else. he has a LOT more plants under his belt than me, im just a stubborn intermediate level grower :rofl:
 
Some great arguements and advice from some great vetrans here. :)

My above post was kinda generalized and open to arguement, had I know such vetrans were watching I would have tried to be more on point and less opinionated. lol
I said:
The tap root will only grow as long as the plant is high, or untill it reaches what it determans to be the "bottom", whichever comes first. When the tap root stops growing then the little side roots(hairs) begin to fill into the rest of the space.
Click to expand...

GiGaBaNE responded:
this thing about tap root and side roots ill have to disagree with. i use clear pots all the time and i have seen no such thing. latteral root branching happens regardless of a tap reaching the 'bottom'. i see side roots long before i see the tap root dropping out of my soil and into the h20 section (i grow hydroganic).
Click to expand...

My first mistake was saying "bottom" lol.... I meant "maximum length". A plant is a fractal.... the tap root will never be linger than the leangth of the main stalk. (unless you cut the main stalk)
I was not (trying) to say that lateral growth will not occur until tap is at "bottom"...... just that once the tap is at the maximum length.

All that being said... my opinion is more based on this than anything else:
Now lastly I will point out the most important reason toi transplant up in pot size durring growth. This is a little hard to explain but I will try...
If I take a little plant and put it in a 5 gal pail, the plant will only require a little water around it to feed, but, if the tap root is growing down it will begin to grow into dry soil because you are only watering around the plant. If you water more then the medium will begin to dry from the top down and the main root ball will dry up and the tap root will keep growing down, and down, and down, requireing you to water the whole 5 gal of medium when it really only needs a fraction of that. This theory would work ok if you were growing in a long thin pipe but in a big container is is just wasted water. Now also we must consider that if the plant is only using a fraction of the water you give it then the remainder is evaporated into the air which raises the humidity.
Now alot of this next part can depend on nutes used but for the most part it applies across the board. Salt does not evaporate (dried salt lakes become salt flats). If the water is evaporating and not being used then the soil is being saturated with all the nutes that were in that soil. Each watering adds more and more until in about week 4-5 you start seeing problems as a result of this. Not only is the concentration of nutes way higher than it should be but it is also affecting the PH of the soil.
Click to expand...

I also agree completely with this:
smart pots and additives like perlite used in combination can make overwatering a virtual impossibility when using o2 water.
Click to expand...
Each grower will have to choose what works right for them... there is no golden rule. I personally mix my own medium and add perilite mainly so I can maintain a watering schedual. For 8 years I have always watered every 3 days. I ensure my mix will leave the plant 90%dry when the watering day is due. My method works for me... a friend uses no perilite and waters every 4 days.
You must know your room, every shape and size of pot (container) will dry at different rates.

I know sometimes I make my posts sound like they are the gospel, never my intent... just stating my opinion and learning from my peers arguements. :)

Jonny
 
im lucky with my current experiment. i have watered my plants exactly zero times =D

i have 1 puny bubbler in a storage tub with 15 2l bottles in there, gravel at the bottom and soil the rest of the way.
i totally defoliated my seedlings the other day, but just before i did and sent them into shock they were already sucking up a litre of water a day (tap water, no ppm, no ph, no nutes =D)

my mk3 is going to be a swimming pool with hydroton bottom then net pots stood on top, then more hydroton in the gaps.. water goes up to an inch shorter than the net pots which will be full of organic soil.

im going to set up a ballcock direct line to the cold water mains so its fully automated.

all i will have to do is top dress with concentrated organics a week before flower.

no repotting, no watering, no feeding, no work =D
 
thanks to all who contributed.

from my experience (not sure if I can name the seed) I've never found a tap root that got to the bottom of my container. so far, I've never even come close to filling the container with roots even though the soil gets good feedings of kelp. I've been thinking for a while that my containers are still too large for my plants. the next grow, I'll likely reduce the container yet again.

small conflict here, though. plants in too small a container are going to want more water and more food than plants with ample root room; but we WANT our plants in quasi root bound containers so that we can water and feed them more. contradictory?

if I can remember my HS science classes, tap roots are seldom more than 1/3 the height of any plant and the tap root is there for the stability of the plant and NOT to (primarily) soak up nutrients. the branching roots do that work. if there is no tap root, the plant requires a stake so that it doesn't topple over.

also, I find it confusing when we are talking about a soil grow to get instructions on hydro or aero grows.

but thanks for all the input. it's helping me get on the straight and narrow.
 
A tap root will search out the furthest source of water if need be !

If you water daily the roots do not expand in search of water... hence a crappy small root system, let them dry out a little & they go in search of the good stuff making a bigger root system :thumb:


I often use a plant sauce/dish filled with hydroton clay pebbles which acts as a mini reserva which in turn i place my 6L airpots upon & by the time vegging phase is over i have roots expanding into plant saucer/dish :thumb:

0011023.JPG



The act of feeding nutrients on a daily basis in soil/compost/coco grows can be potential harmful depending on nutrients used... more so with chemical/synthetic nutrients as these may create a salt build of unused nutrients leading to locks outs/Ph problems !
 
GiGaBaNE said:
that looks awesome fuzzy...man im so tempted to get those pots instead of net pots for my next phase. how much are the 6l's?
Click to expand...

I'll PM you the link to the webite i got em from :thumb:



6L airpots £3.11p in dollars aprox $ 5.04
 
well basically i was going to mostly fill a paddling pool with hydroton and rest net pots on top.
if these air pots can have the bottom further up and it looks like they can. i dont need ANY hydroton. those 6l pots i can convert to 4l pots and the bottom 2l can just sit in the water and roots dangle down. as long as i take care with the physics they should be fairly stable as there is no boyancy.

you might even think of similar in the above example. just put your bottom 1 level higher and just use water in the saucer...no more hydroton purchases or cleaning =D
 

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