Whorled leaves - Pest issue?

[Maurice66]

See photos below. Wondering about the whorled leaves on new growth (yes the plant is also an accidental reveg and I'm working on that). Caused by pests? If so, they must be microscopic. I see no evidence of any bugs or bug damage with lens. The plant is otherwise in great shape. I've been looking around at other threads and have not yet seen this issue. If there is a thread describing this same problem and solutions, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[budnoob3]

Could be any number of things. If not pests , not enough humidity or too much heat would be my first suspects in addition to possible over feeding since those fans are really dark and looking a little dehydrated.

 

[Greengoodness]

See photos below. Wondering about the whorled leaves on new growth (yes the plant is also an accidental reveg and I'm working on that). Caused by pests? If so, they must be microscopic. I see no evidence of any bugs or bug damage with lens. The plant is otherwise in great shape. I've been looking around at other threads and have not yet seen this issue. If there is a thread describing this same problem and solutions, please let me know. Thanks!

That's what it does when it revegges that's how the leaf looks. Man i would'nt feed it nothing more for a week or so. Is it outdoors or indoors? Are you running 18/6 or similar? Yes they look like shit as they figure out the reversing themselves. May take a few weeks, sorry

 

[Maurice66]

Thanks, Greengoodness. I was wondering if it was all related to the reveg situation. I appreciate your confirmation. Yes, these plants are on 18-6 indoors but I'm about to plant them outside in the garden with plenty of above and below ground space to let them work themselves out through the rest of the summer. Dark period outside is a little longer than 6 hrs here, now getting incrementally longer each night of course. I also appreciate your bringing up feeding. Back off until new growth is looking more normal?

And BTW, thanks for the sympathy but there's nothing to be sorry about. It's all part of the learning process and it's so incredibly helpful to have you and others on this forum to turn to when we need help!

 

[013]

Hey Maurice,

So no visible pest on foliage but I’m curious if you’ve checked under the hood? Could be soil critters. Don’t go digging just yet either… What kind of ipm (pest management) treatments have you used so far? Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure…

critters or not- I find it’s best to just nuke stuff at certain intervals, for example you want to nail down before the flip… both foliar and root drench

The plant in the pics has multiple issues, could be weird genetics or photoperiod stress but her fans are whacked, it’s showing 3 unjointed single blades instead of 3 bladed fans or 5 bladed fans and there are no serrations

Is this a reveg? Clone or started from seed? Auto or photoperiod? What’s your light hours?

 

[budnoob3]

It is a reveg which everyone believes is a preferably avoided situation based on what I read. I happen to still also believe there may be humidity and temp issues that may be adding to that. I also happen to think N may be too high as well. I personally would recommend no feeding for at least 3-4 weeks, increase humidity by at a minimum misting a couple times a day, and reducing heat if necessary by whatever means available. I wouldn’t worry about flushing at this point, just giving her cleanest water possible when needed as in rain, stream, fresh water from clean lake for the next 3-4 weeks

 

[budnoob3]

And no need to panic, I’ve seen much worse recover and do ok, won’t be best quality or yield but you should still be ok. Less is more my friend.. Cheers

 

[budnoob3]

If you’re on a budget and don’t have all the fancy controls and sensors you can also add humidity with a few bowls of water spread in tent, keep low speed fan for airfow, etc. to reduce heat make those bowls of ice and move lights up or tie down lower/ scrog lower… hope it helps

 

[013]

ahh crap my bad, I glazed right over the reveg part

I’ve had good success with reveg both on yields and potency, reveg shouldn’t: be an issue.

that plant definitely has some weird genetics going on, I’d get her light hours stabilized and maybe root drench with ipm

 

[SmokingWings]

Wondering about the whorled leaves on new growth (yes the plant is also an accidental reveg and I'm working on that). Caused by pests? If so, they must be microscopic. I see no evidence of any bugs or bug damage with lens.

I see two different issues and do not feel that they are related.

The revegetating is one thing and for the most part it is looking like the few times I have had to have a plant go through that sort of situation. So, to me most of the leaves, except for the new growth at the growing tips, look like normal revegetating leaves, etc.

The other issue is the excessive twisting and curling of new leaf growth which does not show any signs that those leaves will straighten out and return to growing normally. A couple of years ago I have had something like that show up and I sprayed the plant for insects and then just left the plants alone. After a couple of weeks the new growth started looking normal once again. Was the insect spray and the return to normal connected? I really do not know.

What is causing the whorled leaves? I don't know but a few possibilities came up when I did some researching. One is that there are insects involved. It is possible that some very small insects are living inside the leaves and the plant is reacting to that. Another is that some insects laid eggs just under the surface of the new growth leaves and the plant is reacting with twisting and distorted new growth.

Look at the photos and check the surface of the leaves that are around the whorled leaves. A lot of small bumps and on a couple leaves the bumps are larger. If this plant was outside the first thing that would come to mind is insects causing those bumps.

When I looked up possible causes for what we are seeing what did turn up more often than insects was overwatering. You would know better than us if the soil is wet for long periods of time or is being watered before it has properly dried out from the previous watering. If you think that there is even a slight chance that the plant was over-watered then come up with a plan to check the root system for "root rot".

I was looking at the photos and noticed the vivid deep green colors and good focusing. Now am wondering if you are using a Google Pixel phone running Android 11.

 

[Maurice66]

Thanks everyone. Here's some additional info...

Photos taken with Google Pixel running Android 14

I have been watering the plants (each in 15 gallon pots) twice per week unless they don't need it. I water just until I see some runoff in the tray below. I make sure to wet the whole surface. Come watering time, I don't water them if they still have water in the tray below (not common).

Until this reveg started to happen, I had been feeding them 1x/week with FoxFarm Cultivation Nation veggie stage fertilizer dissolved in water, 1/2 TSP per plant (amounted to only three applications). No fertilizer since then.

I have looked and looked and really don't see any evidence of pest damage apart from the obvious whorled leaves. Not sure what bumps SmokingWings is seeing in the photos. I don't see any on the actual leaves.

All new growth under 18-6 lights is now un-whorled.

Temp is 65 to 72 degrees in the room where the plants are (under LED lights).

Humidity is always in the 60-70% range if not higher. We live on the coast in the PNW. Things do not dry out here since fog is common in the summer and fall. The only problem I've experienced here with cannabis growing is bud rot for obvious reasons.

Our water comes from a well. But now runs through a water softener. pH is 7. I read that water softeners are not great for plants but all our garden plants, not just the cannabis, look great. The conditioning the softener does is dialed down pretty low so maybe minimal worry there.

I really appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions! My plan is still to plant outdoors and just let these plants adjust naturally. Maybe fertilize in a few weeks.

 

[Roy Growin]

That is not a pest issue
The growing tips are sensitive to Micro elements since they are fixed into the point at which they are used by the plant
So if you have any fortified Kelp mix, now is the time to use it

 

[JiggiLotus]

Agreed it's not pests. In the case that would be a pest problem you would slightly see their activity and the leaves would show the little mults or abrasions from the bugs. Neither are present. Give it time an be patient.

 

[SmokingWings]

Photos taken with Google Pixel running Android 14

Those are some impressive photos. I had thought that they were still introducing Android 13. Now I have to think if I can afford something like that for the next phone and skipping a new point and shoot camera.

I have looked and looked and really don't see any evidence of pest damage apart from the obvious whorled leaves. Not sure what bumps SmokingWings is seeing in the photos. I don't see any on the actual leaves.

The pest damage does not look like the typical yellow-brownish spots where insects have chewed the surface of the leaf or where insects have eaten pieces out of the leaf or holes all the way through. The bumps are there like little green bubbles in the leaf surface. Sort of like small galls starting to form like they do and some trees and field plants. I grabbed your photo and circled some of the larger areas.

All new growth under 18-6 lights is now un-whorled.

I tend to let the plants try to work out their unknown problems. If after a couple of weeks there is no improvement then I will get involved.