When does veg begin? - Aka how to count days?

[MehGreenThumb]

Hi all,

I see people counting days and weeks. At first things seemed obvious; but not I'm not sure everyone's counting the same way. Is day 1 seedling, when it goes in dirt, when it pops out of dirt? But more importantly; when does "week 1 veg" begin?

I started germination on Dec 27; 10:45PM. This could be "Day 0".
On Dec 31st, I moved the sprouted seeds (seedlings yet?) into dirt.
By Jan 1st, some were just starting to break dirt.
On Jan 2 they were all easily visible above the soil.

Now it's Jan 17, and the plants are looking good. But I can't tell if they're on track or not. The plants are only a few inches tall. Pics from other growers lead me to think perhaps they should be much taller. Then again, they're more experienced. More concerning; they seem to be very compact between the nodes. All the leaves are stacked on top of each other. (Sorry, I'll upload pics in about 7 hours.)

I read somewhere that the veg stage begins when the 1st pair of baby leaves drop off. Can't find the reference again and haven't found anywhere else that gives me a better impression of when the plant really enters the vegetative state. When does week 1 begin?

Mine started Jan 1st (roughly); so they're at the beginning of their 3rd week above dirt.
Have they entered vegetative state yet, or is there another trigger?

I have LEDs (Platinum) and just lowered them from 36" to 24". I suspect I should have done that 2 weeks ago; but forgot the lights had a different start recommendation for "sprouts & seedlings" vs veg state plants. I'd have expected the plats to 'telescope' or stretch. Perhaps they did, but I don't think so.

While on the subject of veg and when veg starts; how about when does it end? Do you just count 4 weeks or do you wait for certain signs in the plants?

I'm primarily looking for general guidance; but also very curious about how this 1st grow is going and if these plants are on track or should be bigger at this stage. Can't now, but I'll upload some pictures in a few hours.

PS: Growing white widow; indoors; LED.

TIA for helping a newbie!

 

[Dr Greenthump]

Hi all,

I see people counting days and weeks. At first things seemed obvious; but not I'm not sure everyone's counting the same way. Is day 1 seedling, when it goes in dirt, when it pops out of dirt? But more importantly; when does "week 1 veg" begin?

I started germination on Dec 27; 10:45PM. This could be "Day 0".
On Dec 31st, I moved the sprouted seeds (seedlings yet?) into dirt.
By Jan 1st, some were just starting to break dirt.
On Jan 2 they were all easily visible above the soil.

Now it's Jan 17, and the plants are looking good. But I can't tell if they're on track or not. The plants are only a few inches tall. Pics from other growers lead me to think perhaps they should be much taller. Then again, they're more experienced. More concerning; they seem to be very compact between the nodes. All the leaves are stacked on top of each other. (Sorry, I'll upload pics in about 7 hours.)

I read somewhere that the veg stage begins when the 1st pair of baby leaves drop off. Can't find the reference again and haven't found anywhere else that gives me a better impression of when the plant really enters the vegetative state. When does week 1 begin?

Mine started Jan 1st (roughly); so they're at the beginning of their 3rd week above dirt.
Have they entered vegetative state yet, or is there another trigger?

I have LEDs (Platinum) and just lowered them from 36" to 24". I suspect I should have done that 2 weeks ago; but forgot the lights had a different start recommendation for "sprouts & seedlings" vs veg state plants. I'd have expected the plats to 'telescope' or stretch. Perhaps they did, but I don't think so.

While on the subject of veg and when veg starts; how about when does it end? Do you just count 4 weeks or do you wait for certain signs in the plants?

I'm primarily looking for general guidance; but also very curious about how this 1st grow is going and if these plants are on track or should be bigger at this stage. Can't now, but I'll upload some pictures in a few hours.

PS: Growing white widow; indoors; LED.

TIA for helping a newbie!

You can veg as long as you want. Just remember your girls will grow about 30% more after you do them from veg into flower. Ex, if you have 3ft tall plants they'll probably end up around 4. And if you're doing it right thru should bush out as well. Try a few different lengths of veg time and see what is most fruitful. During vegetation pot plants like lots of nitrogen (N) and potassium (K) to grow big and micro nutrients like calcium and magnesium to grow strong and healthy insides. I just checked online and it looks like white widow is a ten week strain. That's the days that you see others counting. You'll have 70 to count once you begin the flowering light schedule (12 hours of light/ 12 hours of dark). You'll want to start feeding your ladies a phosphorus(P) based diet with little or no nitrogen start slowly during the week you flip them going fifty fifty with your veg food. You should be using a full strength bloom nutrient like liquid bone meal or I like to top dress my pots (if my soil is lacking) with stuff like seabird/ bat gauno or steamed bone meal a few times throughout the grow the last time being about halfway thru blooming. There's a lot more to it but those are the basics. Good luck buddy

Sent from my XT1635-01 using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[Lazarus13]

I start counting veg time after the first set of true leaves have grown. To me, when it has cotyledons only its a seedling. I will veg for 4 or 5 weeks after the first set of serrated leaves and start counting flowering about a week after i flip my lights to 12/12. This is only how i do it. Like you said, there are a lot of different opinions on counting days/weeks but doing it this way has worked out fairly well for me. I really just use that as a general guideline though as i mostly judge where my plants are developmentally by things like general appearance, water uptake, etc.

 

[MehGreenThumb]

Thanks Doc Greenthump & Laz. Both answers helpful. I've read a TON on the net, these forums and elsewhere. Read about soil, nuts, lighting, newbie mistakes, over/under watering, etc, etc, etc. So far this is turning out to be a pretty fun hobby. Every nook goes deeper and deeper; including all the ways you can use the final product.

I'm excited. I got home, and found my PH Down and FFOF have finally arrived. I can finally replant. I thought they were still fine for their container; until I saw all the roots popping out the bottom! I mixed 1/4 perlite into the FFOF soil and into 3 gal air pots. That should hold them for a while; then I have 5 gal fabric pots if needed.

I tried to upload pics to an album. Not sure if it didn't work, or perhaps they need to be approved? But here are two. Now I'm off to transplant them! Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[MehGreenThumb]

Hypothesis... I think some plants appear much larger early in veg because they started from clones.
I started from seeds. so these first 3 weeks just get me caught up to about clone height.

 

[PacificPeach]

You can veg as long as you want. Just remember your girls will grow about 30% more after you do them from veg into flower. Ex, if you have 3ft tall plants they'll probably end up around 4. And if you're doing it right thru should bush out as well. Try a few different lengths of veg time and see what is most fruitful. During vegetation pot plants like lots of nitrogen (N) and potassium (K) to grow big and micro nutrients like calcium and magnesium to grow strong and healthy insides. I just checked online and it looks like white widow is a ten week strain. That's the days that you see others counting. You'll have 70 to count once you begin the flowering light schedule (12 hours of light/ 12 hours of dark). You'll want to start feeding your ladies a phosphorus(P) based diet with little or no nitrogen start slowly during the week you flip them going fifty fifty with your veg food. You should be using a full strength bloom nutrient like liquid bone meal or I like to top dress my pots (if my soil is lacking) with stuff like seabird/ bat gauno or steamed bone meal a few times throughout the grow the last time being about halfway thru blooming. There's a lot more to it but those are the basics. Good luck buddy

Sent from my XT1635-01 using 420 Magazine Mobile App

Great question & great answer - I am also confused by the date thing. This was helpful )

 

[blue rust]

Thanks for a great question and some good answers. I found this to be confusing as well. I may have to redo my counts now.

 

[Reddot55]

As blue rust said I too was very interested in the question and answers as I am new to growing. It's good these days to be a resident of MA. First set of true leaves is beginning of veg might I ask when anyone recommends the first nutes? Using roots organic soil and a 400 watt HPS in a 3 X 3 X 79" grow tent. Don't mean to hijack thread and if so my apologies.

 

[CookieMan]

Hypothesis... I think some plants appear much larger early in veg because they started from clones.
I started from seeds. so these first 3 weeks just get me caught up to about clone height.

What is your setup? It should not take 3 weeks to have 3-4 sets of leaves and be equal in size to a clone. Probably 2 weeks typically.

 

[LuckyAlbatros]

I start counting veg time after the first set of true leaves have grown. To me, when it has cotyledons only its a seedling. I will veg for 4 or 5 weeks after the first set of serrated leaves and start counting flowering about a week after i flip my lights to 12/12. This is only how i do it. Like you said, there are a lot of different opinions on counting days/weeks but doing it this way has worked out fairly well for me. I really just use that as a general guideline though as i mostly judge where my plants are developmentally by things like general appearance, water uptake, etc.

I'm curious as to why you give your plants a "free" week of flower before you begin tracking?

Is this just a personal mental trick to give yourself more patience?

 

[blue rust]

Seems common for the "transition period"

 

[Lazarus13]

Im still feeding veg nutes during this time and they havent shown me pistils yet. I do it so im not rushing them at the end.
I suppose it is sort of a mental psyche out.