What's More Important, P Or K?

M

mikrom

New Member
Hey Guys, I've been really searching lately to try and understand what a good N-P-K ratio is for the flowering cycle and have seen a couple good articles. But I have been left wondering, It seems that some companies have a higher P than K, while others have a higher K than P. Anyone know what Mary Jane likes better for flowering? or what's more important? What nutrient ratios are people using?

i broke down my ratio for botanicare pure blend pro soil bloom, Cal mag, And karma. 8ml, 2.5ml, 1ml respectively, per 2.35L.

seems like i'd be feeding with a ratio of 151-361-455-81 ( N-P-K-Mg )

One question I have been pondering in my attempt to fix my problem, if i am possibly feeding too much K when it is P deficient and the extra K is locking out the P. Not really sure tho just a thought.
 
Week 1-2 I supplement with Crystal Burst, which is 0-15-15
Week 3-7/8 I supplement with Sonic Bloom, which is 0-51-34

I would say they're both equally important.

Don't add up the numbers, just use the base NPK numbers for each nutrient. If more than 1 nutrient is used, for example Micro, Grow, and Bloom, you'd add the NPK of the 3 together, but not based on ml.
 
so it looks like overall though you're higher in P than K.
Whereas my feed would be higher K than P.

Also the reason I put mLs is because if I increase the amount of calmag then the ratio of the rest of the nutes to Mg goes down.
I could feed at 7mL bloom+3mL calmag and it would give me a certain ratio, whereas if i feed at 9mL bloom+2.5mL calmag it's going to be a different ratio.
 
Nope. Not from what an experienced grower told me. (KingJohnC)

When you increase the ml, the NPK stays the same, only the concentration changes.

So if you feed 7ml bloom that has an NPK of 0-5-4, the NPK is still 0-5-4.
If you feed 9ml bloom, that has the same NPK of 0-5-4, the NPK is still 0-5-4.

Think about it. You buy nutrients, and it says something like 3-4-5. 3-4-5 at what? Most bottles give you varied feeding schedules. Is it 3-4-5 in the bottle? 3-4-5 the first feeding? 3-4-5 the last feeding? No. None. That would basically be false advertising if that were the case.

It's a 3-4-5 regardless if you use 2ml/gal, or 200ml/gal. Only the concentration changes.
 
Antics, you must be mistaken.
what i am talking about is the ratio of different additives when mixed together.

You get a different overall NPK when you mix things together.

If you mix up a batch of water at 5 mL of Grow and 5 mL of Bloom the final resulting NPK of your nutrient water WILL BE different than if you mix a different batch of water at 0mL of grow and 10mL of Bloom into the same amount of water.

this is what i'm talking about.

obviously if you mix 1mL of bloom into 1 liter of water, the NPK willbe the same if you put 3mL bloom into 1 liter of water, only the concentration changes. that obvious and not what im discussing.


What this topic was to discuss is the ideal NPK for flowering
It seems your formula has a higher P than K.
My formula has a higher K than P. That's interesting, I would like to experiment with different formulas or hear peoples experiences with different additives or nutrient regimes
 
mikrom said:
i broke down my ratio for botanicare pure blend pro soil bloom, Cal mag, And karma. 8ml, 2.5ml, 1ml respectively, per 2.35L.

seems like i'd be feeding with a ratio of 151-361-455-81 ( N-P-K-Mg )
Click to expand...

thats 8ml Bloom, 2.5ML CALMAG, and 1mL Karma, mixed into 2.35L.
 
mikrom said:
thats 8ml Bloom, 2.5ML CALMAG, and 1mL Karma, mixed into 2.35L.
Click to expand...

Just click edit under your post, no need to double post.

mikrom said:
seems like i'd be feeding with a ratio of 151-361-455-81 ( N-P-K-Mg )
Click to expand...

mikrom said:
Antics, you must be mistaken.
what i am talking about is the ratio of different additives when mixed together.

You get a different overall NPK when you mix things together.
Click to expand...

Just going by your first post, 151-361-455 will likely kill anything you feed it to. You're definitely adding (multiplying?) things wrong bud.
But you don't want to listen, I don't want to waste time.

So peace.
 
1-3-4-(.8) then may be what i mean (.8 being magnesium)
 
I honestly have no idea about how to manipulate the fertilizers. but Antics is correct, I think your math is out. I am under the impression that a 20-10-10 mixture is 20% nitrogen, 10% Potassium and 10% Phosphorus. Therefor you cannot be feeding 151-361-455 or things would be dead. Makes more sense that it would be 10%-30%-40% with 8% magnesium. I run a 3 part, and would love for someone to explain to me exactly what i am doing. I just borrowed a recipe and it works great for me....
 
at the same time if you take your numbers from your first post it still appears to be a 1-2-3 mixture, it is all in how you are reading the numbers I guess. I think it is more mathematical than just adding the bottles together to get a number. I am using General Hydro flora series, if I add the numbers together on the 3 bottles i end up with a 7-6-11. but If I look at my veg recipe an and add the numbers I get 21-12-11 but that is if I multiply the 7-6-11 by a 3-2-1 ratio... but if I add each part individually (3-2-1) I get 16-8-11 out of my veg recipe. Like I said, I have no idea what i am doing lol. but it smokes good.
 
this is good discussion. so for your mindset antics lets pose this example. my grow is 3-2-4, my bloom is 1-4-5.

so lets say i'm mixing a batch to water.
If i mix 2ml grow in with 8ml bloom, you would say you just add 3-2-4 + 1-4-5 and you would say you are watering then at 4-6-9 ?

Whereas with my understanding, and i will admit for sure that i could be wrong. but i think this:

2mL Grow + 8mL Bloom = 10 mL total nutrients added (20% grow, 80% bloom)
which would result in 1.4-3.6-4.8

5mL Grow + 5mL Bloom = 10mL total nutrients added (50% grow, 50% bloom)
which would result in 2-3-4.5

9mL Grow + 1mL Bloom = 10mL total nutrients added (90% grow, 10% bloom)
which would result in 2.8-2.2-4.1

then of course 100% bloom is 1-4-5, 100% grow is 3-2-4. and of course if you mixed 50/50 then the ratio is directly in the middle of those 2 numbers.

this is just what math tells me based on guarenteed analysis of liquids using physics.

But i guess antics you would suggest that all of those mixtures would be at 4-6-9 ? or ?


gosnyper for you could you let me know what the npk and Mg analysis %'s of your nutes are and how much you mix when you in bloom ?


edit: original quiestion is still : what should be more? P or K ?

Some blooms are higher P, some are higher K. what does cannabis like, do some strains prefer different ?

Budding and Flowering Marijuana

This great post seems to suggest what i have read elsewhere and was thinking, that cannabis likes to flower with more P ... which means i may need to get a P booster
 
I have 3 NPK to deal with as mine is a 3 part. They are 2-1-6, 5-0-1, and 0-5-4. (Grow,Micro, Bloom) added up they are 7-6-11. If I start looking at how I mix them, I can come up with different ways of adding them. say this: my veg recipe is 3-2-1. So do I take the 7-6-11 and it makes 21-12-11 (multiplies by 3-2-1), or do I take the individuals that I am mixing and it is 16-8-24?? or none of the above and the concentration just changes not the percentages?? Again, I have no idea because a 16-8-24 does not seem right for veg, but maybe it is, but a 21-12-11 makes more sense. and in flower I use a 1-2-3 part of the same nutes, so I would have 7-12-33, or look at them individually and get 12-16-20? I still think the NPK is still 1-2-3 for veg, 3-2-1 for flower which suggests to me that you need more K than P.


Grow 2-1-6
Micro 5-0-1
Bloom- 0-5-4

Veg is using 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, 1 part bloom
Flower is using 1 part grow, 2 parts micro, 3 parts bloom
Transition stage is using 1 part grow, 1 part micro, 1 part bloom

in the end all I look at is the recipe and the ppm. When done, I want 500ppm in veg, 700 ppm in transition, and 800 ppm in flower. If I have to thin it out with RO water I do so. Again, I have no idea how these number work. It makes sense to me that just because I added 10 ml or just 5 ml I have not cut the NPK value in half just how concentrated it is, but at the same time, changing how much of each part I put is is obviously changing my NPK values in some way, but I don't know the right math on it. I guess that why they make a nutrient calculator.
 
mikrom said:
this is good discussion. so for your mindset antics lets pose this example. my grow is 3-2-4, my bloom is 1-4-5.

so lets say i'm mixing a batch to water.
If i mix 2ml grow in with 8ml bloom, you would say you just add 3-2-4 + 1-4-5 and you would say you are watering then at 4-6-9 ?

Whereas with my understanding, and i will admit for sure that i could be wrong. but i think this:

2mL Grow + 8mL Bloom = 10 mL total nutrients added (20% grow, 80% bloom)
which would result in 1.4-3.6-4.8

5mL Grow + 5mL Bloom = 10mL total nutrients added (50% grow, 50% bloom)
which would result in 2-3-4.5

9mL Grow + 1mL Bloom = 10mL total nutrients added (90% grow, 10% bloom)
which would result in 2.8-2.2-4.1

then of course 100% bloom is 1-4-5, 100% grow is 3-2-4. and of course if you mixed 50/50 then the ratio is directly in the middle of those 2 numbers.

this is just what math tells me based on guarenteed analysis of liquids using physics.

But i guess antics you would suggest that all of those mixtures would be at 4-6-9 ? or ?


gosnyper for you could you let me know what the npk and Mg analysis %'s of your nutes are and how much you mix when you in bloom ?


edit: original quiestion is still : what should be more? P or K ?

Some blooms are higher P, some are higher K. what does cannabis like, do some strains prefer different ?

Budding and Flowering Marijuana

This great post seems to suggest what i have read elsewhere and was thinking, that cannabis likes to flower with more P ... which means i may need to get a P booster
Click to expand...

I spent a few hours looking for the post, and finally found it. This is where I learned a lot of what I know from 420, and members like the guy I'm going to be linking to, since he's been growing for years, and has a ton of experience under his belt.


For your first question, here's what he has to say:
KingJohnC said:
Try to find a flowering nutrient with 5-15-14 N-P-K or similar for flowering.
Click to expand...
Pyramid Purple & DNA Chocolope Under CFL - 2nd Grow

This is where he states what exactly NPK is:
KingJohnC said:
The N-P-K or Nitrogen-Phosphorous-Potassium is the percentage content of the nutrient product.
Click to expand...
Pyramid Purple & DNA Chocolope Under CFL - 2nd Grow

Here is my followup question, basically covering the ongoing question, whether different quantities are multiplied, added, etc.. and in exactly what mixture, or just in the bottles, that the NPK is referencing:
Antics said:
Just to add another question into the conversation:

Assuming we use the same 5-14-14 nutes in my query, during which state do the nutrients contain 5%, 14%, and 14%? In the bottle? Mixed with water? And once we mix a 5-14-14 does the NPK percentage decrease?

Quick example: 1ml/gal of nute mix of 5-14-14 vs. 5ml/gal of nute mix of 5-14-14.
Are we still looking at a 5-14-14 mix in both examples, but just different quantity of 5-14-14 contained in the mix?
To me it seems like we'd just have a 5-14-14 in the bottle, and once we mix it into water, that concentration becomes diluted.
I've always had trouble with understanding some science/chemistry things, so I have to ask :(
Click to expand...
Pyramid Purple & DNA Chocolope Under CFL - 2nd Grow

And his answer to that:
KingJohnC said:
The nutrient proportions remain the same only the concentration strength changes.
Click to expand...
Pyramid Purple & DNA Chocolope Under CFL - 2nd Grow
 
Thanks for the info Antics with the NPK value of 5-15-14 it confirms what i've been seeing lately which is that buds like phosphorus. I'm going to learn more about what they use these different nutrients for.

But basically here, Antics, you didn't do anything to give your side of the example I posed which is using Different nutrients mixed together to create a final NPK ratio. Where your example is just if you are changing the linear amount of nutrient using a 1 part system.

I'll answer here for go4snyper what his different FINAL NPK values would be after mixing his solution out of the 3 parts.
 
go4snypr said:
I have 3 NPK to deal with as mine is a 3 part. They are 2-1-6, 5-0-1, and 0-5-4. (Grow,Micro, Bloom) added up they are 7-6-11. If I start looking at how I mix them, I can come up with different ways of adding them. say this: my veg recipe is 3-2-1. So do I take the 7-6-11 and it makes 21-12-11 (multiplies by 3-2-1), or do I take the individuals that I am mixing and it is 16-8-24?? or none of the above and the concentration just changes not the percentages?? Again, I have no idea because a 16-8-24 does not seem right for veg, but maybe it is, but a 21-12-11 makes more sense. and in flower I use a 1-2-3 part of the same nutes, so I would have 7-12-33, or look at them individually and get 12-16-20? I still think the NPK is still 1-2-3 for veg, 3-2-1 for flower which suggests to me that you need more K than P.


Grow 2-1-6
Micro 5-0-1
Bloom- 0-5-4

Veg is using 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, 1 part bloom
Flower is using 1 part grow, 2 parts micro, 3 parts bloom
Transition stage is using 1 part grow, 1 part micro, 1 part bloom

in the end all I look at is the recipe and the ppm. When done, I want 500ppm in veg, 700 ppm in transition, and 800 ppm in flower. If I have to thin it out with RO water I do so. Again, I have no idea how these number work. It makes sense to me that just because I added 10 ml or just 5 ml I have not cut the NPK value in half just how concentrated it is, but at the same time, changing how much of each part I put is is obviously changing my NPK values in some way, but I don't know the right math on it. I guess that why they make a nutrient calculator.
Click to expand...

Ok so from my perspective, using the ratios you've provided, you are feeding as follows. I could be wrong, but this is just using the math skills that I know and love based on guaranteed analysis of liquids.

Veg NPK is exactly 2-1-3
Transition NPK is roughly 1-1-2
Flower NPK is exactly 3-4-5

If you are interested in how I came to these numbers,
it's actually pretty simple you just have to multiply in each part by the npk and add it up. so for veg
3 parts grow (3 x 2-1-6) = 6-3-18 + 2 parts micro (2 x 5-0-1) = 10-0-2 + 1 part bloom 0-5-4 = 16-8-24 which reduces to 2-1-3.

I could explain it further also.. would love it someone else could chime in with their thoughts
 

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