What system will yield the most?

D

Danner

New Member
Hi all, somewhat of a newbie here. I'm on my 2nd grow right now in soil and things have been going really good. First grow was slightly above disasteress lol with a bug problem I never took care of. Ended up with 2 oz. from 8 Jack Herers. I'm on 3rd wk of 12/12 for my 2nd soil grow and things are exploding. Took care of bug problem and things are lookin' really good with (4) mauis (1) green crack (1) headband and (2) void.

Right now I'm growing in soil in a 4x4 tent with 1k HID. I plan on expanding the operation by turning the tent into a veg tent with a 400w MH. I'm moving the flower operation into a 5x7 room in my basement. I plan on having the 1K hps on either a 3' or 4' light mover. My objective is to produce the absolute maximum yeilds with what I have in some sort of perpetual grow. I want to switch to a hydro system and I'm debating between building my own DWC under current system or Ebb&Flow system (these are the two systems that I've done the most research on and feel comfortable not only building but operating as well). I think my problem with an Ebb&Flow system is that my flower room is only 6' tall so vertical height is very limited. With the DWC uc system it sounds like I'll be using quite a bit more water than the Ebb&Flow and water temp. is an added problem to the system.

So to cut-to-the-chase I'm looking for peoples opinions on what I should do. What would you're exact scenario/system be to maximize yield in a perpetual grow using the following assumptions:

-Either DWC UC or Ebb&Flo
-Using GH Lucas Formula
-Perpetual Grow (harvest every 4-6 weeks)
-White Widow strain

Thanks for you're help in advance.
Danner
 
Rdwc, allows the plant to feed to max cause water n oxygen are always theyre and uncurrent keeps salts n such from building up. But its just not ur system theyres alot of other things to factor environment is a very important thing
 
Either system will grow wonderful plants.

I have no personal experience with ebb n flow.

I love my RDWC system and it will be a cold day in hell likely before I change. I've gotten 10oz dry twice in a row from my best girl in each of my last two grows. Neither plant was taller than 36" and they were too tall.

Personally, my choice of nutrient would be Blue Planet Nutrients, a sponsor here on 420 mag and a very active member here in the forums assisting growers. The prices are awesome and the service is fantastic. The nutrients are just as good as any of the big companies out there.

In the end you'll likely need to read up on numerous journals of each method and decide what suits you.
 
Thanks for the responses. I've decided I'm going with a RDWC. I have a 1000k HPS I'm flowering with right now. I've been thinking about going to 2 600w lights instead or putting the 1000 on a 4' light mover. Any suggestions on which would produce better results, the 1000 on a light mover or 2 600s? This is in a 5x7 room.
 
Mine are in 5 gal buckets.

To answer the which light question one needs to know how tall he plans on growing his girls. There is a light-depth chart here in this thread to assist. How far of a distance?
 
Again, thanks Bassman for the info. So if I'm reading this chart right a 1000w can't be any closer than 10" from the tops, which will produce 65,980 lumens, where as a 600 can be 8" away and produce 65,890 lumens, actually 1719 lumens more than the 1K! Why do people waste the extra $ on 1000s then? More importantly, why am I wasting the money on the 1000 lol??? Thats interesting. Ok, back to my question about which will produce more though. If the 1000w is on a light mover you can move it much closer to the plants. I don't know how close though, but at 4" - 5" away the 1000k is producing 256,685 - 401,070 lumens, which blows 2
600s out of the water at 131,780 for two. Am I correct here? Am I reading that chart righ?
 
Ok, you're getting there, but maybe focusing on the wrong thing to a small degree. Do you want to deliver all that light to 2" of the plant or do you want to deliver it to 26" of plant or 32" of plant?

While the 600's can be more optimal, and more efficient $$ wise, the thing you have to decide is how big are you going to grow your girls and what light will be needed to cover that height? Now if all you care about is the top 8-10 inches of the plant, hell, you could go 400 watts (I'm exaggerating). But since you asked about yield, I would assume you want light from top to bottom and buds to produce from top to bottom.

Ok, so now we know you want top to bottom buds. Now how tall? Look back at the chart, look at your room max height, subtract the depth of the hood with hangers, subtract the tallness of the bucket. This will give you max room. HOWEVER, that's bucket to bottom of reflector! Now factor in how far away from reflector with both 600w and 1000w and you have a final max height for full optimal light penetration for each light and plant height.

Now you decide based on what you prefer.

The whole idea is to make full use of useable light.

Some people want to grow 6 foot monsters indoors. But they're using a 400w or 600w light. When they finally do get that plant to 6ft, the only bud getting proper light is maybe the top third of the plant! EVERYTHING below that is low quality swag at best, and tons of wasted veg time and $$ spent burning lights & nutrient at worst.

So my advise is to use that chart as a general rule, do the math for your room, figure out what works best for you. THEN buy lights accordingly.
 
Awesome! Makes perfect sense now! Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate it! Haven't done the math yet but I know I'll need shorter plants for sure for the new flower room. How do you get a plant to grow to a specific height though? Is it a matter of just topping it correctly and knowing the plant?
 
howdy danner

yep bassman is spot on...there are alot of things to take into consideration, with my last grow using a recirculating top feed system(using sprinklers instead of a drip feed) i also got 10 Oz of dry per plant(cinderella 99 hybrids) i think alot has to do with the strain you go with too, obviously some plants yield more than others per m2.. with your limited vertical space you could also consider an aeroponic SOG setup- seemorebuds has yielded upto 6 pounds in a 6ft x 4ft grow area using 'optimus' aero sog system.. northern lights, from 100-300 plants in 3(?) reservoirs for each 6ft x 4ft grow space(in reality it is quite simple building something very similar to what he used for VERY cheap).. the plants grew approx 1 foot tall and he was yielding upto 2.5 O'z per cutting. this obviously requires dedicated mothers to cater for such large numbers but works well with limited vertical space... but also requires time and patience setting the mothers up to achieve that goal. ive grown similar in 2litre (2litre milk bottles with top 3rd cut off) bottles.. i could fit 20 into old polystyrene boxes(basically flood and drain hydro).. i was yielding between .5- 1 Ounce dry per cutting (bubblegum and cheese) and was averaging an EASY pound per polystyrene box-under a single 600W HPS.. no training or pruning what-so-ever- 1 week veg and 8 weeks flower... there are a few options out there but at the end of the day i think it comes down to experience.. she's by far the best teacher i reckon! ;]

all the best! :Namaste:
 
Danner, if it were me growing in a 5x7 room I would run 6 plants in 5 gal buckets in rdwc setup. For light, I would use 2x 600w and 1x 400 watt. The 400w would be between the two 600's. I'd use 6" or 8" raptor hoods because they are so wide for a good full spread and a narrower hood on the 400w. The 400w is there in the middle to fill the center while the 600's would provide a 3rd off effect, or overlap of light to the 400 area.

Once I have that set up properly, I'd grow with the intent on spreading the plants wide. Short, fat bottomed girls through bending and topping. Strain dependent, it may take a couple grows to dial it in, but I'd veg to 12-14" with the intent to flip then and reach max height of 28" but leaning more to 24-26" in reality.

Something to consider. if one were to grow tons of small plants in like 2L hempy style or whatever, with over 100 plants, then you're looking at federal time if busted. Some people are willing to risk it. But I'm not one of them. To me, the more under the radar the better. At 50+ I have no desire to go to jail and ruin my life even more. No matter whether we are in an MMJ state or not, we are still taking some chances. The more "in-line" we appear with our local mmj laws the more a jury will be on our side if LE does hassle us.
 
Thanks for responses guys. It's actually been a while since I started this thread and I've worked out what I'm going to do through reading and experimenting. I've done a lot of reading and I've been following your current grow Bassman, including reading through your past grows. You have been the source I have definitely learned the most from and continue to learn and I want to say THANK YOU!!

I currently have a crop that will be harvested in the next week or two. Its my second grow and I've currently started my third grow, which is going to be my first real experiment with full defoliation. I did defoliate my current crop after they were into flower (day 21) and it seems to have worked out pretty well. We'll see after harvest what I yield. What I have going on now is 4 plants, two of which are in a bubbler dwc that I made and is my first attempt at hydro. So far so good and I really think I'm preferring hydro over soil just because of the added control I feel I have.

So anyway, this is my plan: I have a 4x4 tent with a 600w MH that is my veg. I'm currently building two 27 gallon tubs that will have 12 spots total (6 a piece) for the veg tent. I'm thinking I'll have about a 6 week veg time since I'm planning on defoliating. I'll start 6 new plants every 6 weeks and move 6 plants into flower with the ultimate goal of harvest 2 pounds every 6 weeks. The flower setup will be 2 flower rooms, one is the 5x7 room I started this thread talking about with 1000k hps, which ironically bass is in a 6" raptor hood (it measures roughly 2'x3'). The second flower room, which I haven't started yet will be a 4x8 tent with (2) 600w hps. I'm going to build a 6 spot RDWC system (similar to your’s bass) for each room. Along with defoliating I'm kind of on the fence between what other type of training I want to do. I'm split between supercropping or LST. I just don't really know which one yet since I have experimented yet with either one. The (4) plants in veg right now are going to be used for experimenting. Also, I have a 2x4 tent with a 125w CFL for a couple mothers and cloning. I plan on growing both White Widow and Northern Lights X Big Bud.

So anyway, that's the plan and I really appreciate your responses. I definately greatly appreciate all the help you probably don't even know you've given me Bassman!

Danner
 
sounds great Danner. Glad I could help a little.

My next grow is in earliest veg right now. Like 3-4" tall. I am going to try Main-Lining form of topping with it. I think this is uber conducive to defoliation and will only mean more.

Google: The Main-Lining Thread to research it.
 
That sounds cool Bass, you gonna document the next grow? I'd love to see what kind of results you'd get with this. One thing though, I totally get the idea of growing everything off a central node like that to get even distrubution of nutes to all tops, but at the same time the whole thing looks more-or-less like a fancy lollipoping. Seems to be chopping quite a bit of bud sights thru the whole process to focus all the energy on just the tops. I think I've read you say in the past, or maybe I read it somewhere else, about not wanting to cut off ANY bud sights... How long do you think it takes to veg using this Main-Line technique? I know the guy said in the thread it adds 10 days to veg, but he doesn't say how long the veg is to begin with. Seems like you might be in veg for up to 2-months. I definitely think it's a cool idea though, and DAMN, some of those nugs that guys produced!
Danner
 
I agree with you Danner on the lollipoping. I saw that too. That's where I am going to be different. I'm going to main-line without lollipoping. Just my regular hi defoliation technique. Yesterday I made the first topping on 2 of 4 plants. I will journal it, but not till my present grow harvests. I may take pics until that time though. We'll see.
 
Awesome, I can't wait to see your results! How long do you plan on vegging them? Depending on your results maybe I'll put this technique in the to-do-list. I think it's a little beyond me at this point considering I just FIMed for the first time lol, which I think I missed and didn't cut down far enough. It almost looks like the leaves are just growing back in and not really branching off. Idk, but we'll see. I might just say the hell with it and just top them..
 
Unfortunately I got these seeds in late. My current grow is 2-3 weeks max from harvest. So I don't know how long I'll veg. We shall see!
 

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