What have I done

S

static123

Well-Known Member
Hi I am in need of some help asap, I have no idea what is going on here, I think over watered but can’t be sure, I did wait until the pot was very light between each water. Temp is 22 / 25 humidity 50/55 feeding Biobizz nutrients every other water with a ph of 6.2 / 6.3 I have a Journal on the go here Forbidden Fruits With LED

Hope someone can advise me I am starting to panic.
C5110763-449E-4F18-A2BE-7C6FEAD04B45.jpeg

6EEA3524-ECC0-4E8E-ADFB-2A57D9F56B75.jpeg
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How's the potassium level? Kinda looks like the early stages of a K deficiency. If you start to get burnt leaf tips and browning along the margins of the leaves then it is almost certainly a K deficiency. What kind/brand of soil? The droopy leaves can be a sign of overwatering, but so can a K deficiency. Hopefully others will weigh in.
 
About how long between watering/feed and what size pots? I dealt with similar and it was due to over watering my leaves were heavy from water retention...letting them dry dry like 3-4 in-between helped alot. Just my opinion let them dry dry and monitor.
 
I have spent time reviewing your posts in several threads. The plants are experiencing several issues compounding the complexity of the damage to the leaves in the photographs.

For vegetative growth the cannabis plants require 65%-75% relative humidity for fastest growth. I would use a cool mist humidifier either placed in the area outside the tent where the intake air is sourced.

The air exchange in and out of the tent must be increased to a minimum of 9.5 times the total volume per hour.

The small circulation fan inside the tent is undersized for the current cannabis vegetative mass. I would use a larger sized circulation fan inside the tent. An oscillating fan alternates stimulation which aids in increasing growth rates and the cannabis plants strengthen their stems to support the weight of the buds during flower.

The upward curled leaf edges indicate a magnesium deficiency. The interveinal chlorosis present on the older leaves indicates a nitrogen deficiency. The light green colour of the new vegetative growth indicates a nitrogen deficiency

The BioBIzz All Mix does not contain sufficient nutrients for growth. In the photographs of the BioBIzz All Mix grow medium we can see is not soil, rather is made up of larger twigs and large fibre material which is not broken down into an active form of nutrients for the plants requirements.

It appears that the magnesium deficiency began expressing itself in the photographs posted on February 2 2022.

I would begin using a calcium and magnesium supplement with each watering and continue adjusting the final nutrient mixture to 6.2 pH.

I would use nutrients every time you water your plants.

I would water the plants until the grow medium is saturated and runoff can be collected and discarded.

The distance which the LED grow light is mounted may be too high to supply sufficient light for optimal growth. Mounting distance above the plant canopy also affect the light spread coverage area while decreasing the depth from the light source that the plant can effectively use for growth and may not be supplying enough light to lower areas of the plants. A light meter would be required to check the actual effective flowering distance from the LED grow light.


What is the pH of the source water which is being used for the nutrient solution?
 
Phytoplankton said:
How's the potassium level? Kinda looks like the early stages of a K deficiency. If you start to get burnt leaf tips and browning along the margins of the leaves then it is almost certainly a K deficiency. What kind/brand of soil? The droopy leaves can be a sign of overwatering, but so can a K deficiency. Hopefully others will weigh in.
Click to expand...
I think your right as your not the only person that has suggested this.
 
KingJohnC said:
I have spent time reviewing your posts in several threads. The plants are experiencing several issues compounding the complexity of the damage to the leaves in the photographs.

For vegetative growth the cannabis plants require 65%-75% relative humidity for fastest growth. I would use a cool mist humidifier either placed in the area outside the tent where the intake air is sourced.

The air exchange in and out of the tent must be increased to a minimum of 9.5 times the total volume per hour.

The small circulation fan inside the tent is undersized for the current cannabis vegetative mass. I would use a larger sized circulation fan inside the tent. An oscillating fan alternates stimulation which aids in increasing growth rates and the cannabis plants strengthen their stems to support the weight of the buds during flower.

The upward curled leaf edges indicate a magnesium deficiency. The interveinal chlorosis present on the older leaves indicates a nitrogen deficiency. The light green colour of the new vegetative growth indicates a nitrogen deficiency

The BioBIzz All Mix does not contain sufficient nutrients for growth. In the photographs of the BioBIzz All Mix grow medium we can see is not soil, rather is made up of larger twigs and large fibre material which is not broken down into an active form of nutrients for the plants requirements.

It appears that the magnesium deficiency began expressing itself in the photographs posted on February 2 2022.

I would begin using a calcium and magnesium supplement with each watering and continue adjusting the final nutrient mixture to 6.2 pH.

I would use nutrients every time you water your plants.

I would water the plants until the grow medium is saturated and runoff can be collected and discarded.

The distance which the LED grow light is mounted may be too high to supply sufficient light for optimal growth. Mounting distance above the plant canopy also affect the light spread coverage area while decreasing the depth from the light source that the plant can effectively use for growth and may not be supplying enough light to lower areas of the plants. A light meter would be required to check the actual effective flowering distance from the LED grow light.


What is the pH of the source water which is being used for the nutrient solution?
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for your detailed reply, I was advised to water with nutrients every other time, but since i have been doing this i have been getting problems, is that because I am using organic nutrients or is it because I am not feeding enough when I do feed with nutrients or like you have already said I need to feed every water ? it seems the bio bizz feeding guide is very weak and when i have been feeding I have had to double up the amount of grow, it seems I need to increase this even more, I have attached there Schedule below.
The Ph of my water before I add any thing is 8.5, The NPK of there grow is 4-3-6. I always wait until the pots are light and dry and when I water i always get a good amount of run off about 3/4 L
biobizz-all-mix-feeding-schedule-2020.jpeg
 
HappyHazmat88 said:
About how long between watering/feed and what size pots? I dealt with similar and it was due to over watering my leaves were heavy from water retention...letting them dry dry like 3-4 in-between helped alot. Just my opinion let them dry dry and monitor.
Click to expand...
I wait until the pots are totally dry and light and then water until 3/4 run off. Thanks for your reply
 
static123 said:
Thanks so much for your detailed reply, I was advised to water with nutrients every other time, but since i have been doing this i have been getting problems, is that because I am using organic nutrients or is it because I am not feeding enough when I do feed with nutrients or like you have already said I need to feed every water ?
Click to expand...

This is not necessarily bad advice to alternate watering with small plants, unknown nutrient lines and issues presenting themselves.

I recommend cautious conservative nutrient mixtures used with small cannabis plants. Far more damage is created by following aggressive nutrient feed schedules recommended meant for rooted clones which do not distinguish deference between seedling started from seeds or established rooted clones. To form your own opinion you are welcome to read through the forums to determine how prevalent and common seedling damage from using the recommended nutrient feed schedules or too high nutrient concentration occurs in real conditions.

I recommend beginning with 1/4 strength nutrients when the plant has 2 - 3 nodes of growth at around week 2 - 3 and gradually over multiple waterings increasing until full strength nutrients are used.

The starting source waters pH is too high and must be partially lowered and then the multiple bottled components added in specific order. If the order of operation is improper the reactions create bound complex nutrient combinations the plant can not easily access. If any single nutrient or micro nutrient is present in too high concentration it causes the other ingredients in the nutrient solution to negatively react with each other and either form much more complex combination forms of nutrients, form into solid suspended or crystallized salts, or combinations which are harmful to the cannabis plants.

Plants grown under LED lights require additional calcium and magnesium.

While adding the nutrients if you use a calcium supplement the calcium supplement must be added first to the water.

If using a calcium supplement in hydroponics do not allow the pH to rise above 6.3 otherwise the calcium will precipitate to a solid in suspension and not be absorb able by the plant. For example if a calcium supplement is added to either water or nutrient solution above pH 6.3 80% of the calcium returns to a suspended solid or if total combined dissolved saturation level of all ingredients is exceeded will form calcium powder and drop out of solution nearly immediately. Cannabis plants are not able to directly use solid calcium forms. In a nutrient solution calcium must be kept between pH 5.6 and pH 6.3 to be in a form usable for the cannabis plants requirements.

These negative interaction are more complex if incompatible nutrient lines are used or pH is too high in improper range to allow the multiple part ingredients to exist in their intended forms most easily accessible for the cannabis plants requirements.

Always shake your nutrients before use.

Always add your nutrients to water not each other, when added to each other they react and drop out of solution in a form that plants can not absorb.

Between each addition thoroughly mix each additive into the nutrient solution and allow 2 minutes minimum of rest for the component to finalize the reaction and become stable within the nutrient solution.

The issue I am having with BioBizz nutrients is they fail list the N-P-K values or ingredients of any of products, The descriptions they use are either intentionally vague or of dubious benefit. Without industry standard N-P-K values it is not possible to predict how the individual components react. I can not recommend using any nutrient product line where the N-P-K values and/or ingredients are deliberately hidden and a mystery to all. I am unsure if you may be able to inquire and receive this N-P-K and component information in order to predict interaction.

Even the bags of soil, black earth, cattle or sheep manure I purchase are marked with industry standard N-P-K values.

Regular Epsom Salts are Magnesium Sulfate and can be used as a source of magnesium supplement. You can foliar feed Epsom Salts at 2.5-5 millilitres per gallon. Epsom Salts can be used at 1-2 teaspoons per gallon as a magnesium and sulfate supplement to treat a deficiency. Some people have reported nutrient burns when using a higher dosage of Epsom Salts with a nutrient mixture.
MgSO4
https://en.wikipedia.org Magnesium sulfate

Start with adjusting the water sources pH below pH 6.

Add the calcium supplement first.

Add the Microbes additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Heaven additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Top Max additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the ActiVera additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Grow additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Bloom additive to the nutrient solution.

Mix the nutrients well into your solution.

the first few time that a new nutrient solution is replaced I would check and record the pH of the nutrient solution after each addition to maintain the pH in optimal range. This shall allow you to predict the amount of pH down required for the first initial source waters pH adjustment.

The municipal water supply that I use ranges from pH 7.2 - pH 7.7 seasonally and I must adjust water supply before adding any additive to the nutrient solution in order to prevent pH range nutrient lockouts which would otherwise occur as the nutrient mixture is created and render the mixture ineffective..

When mixing nutrients and adjusting the nutrient mixtures pH you must allow waiting time to approximately 12 - 20 minutes to allow the pH to balance after initial adjustment. the buffering effect of calcium excetera will first display a reading then pH buffer rebound shall change resultant pH of the mixture.

the order in which i adjust and add nutrients is

initial pH adjustment
If using a silica additive add to the nutrient solution before adding the calcium
Calcium supplement
Micro nutrients
Grow nutrients
Bloom nutrients
Possible other bloom enhancer
final pH adjustment

Please keep a notes for each nutrient mixture in a notepad with the order of the operation, what you are currently using and quantity in millilitres per gallon as a reference. The record will allow you to return back to a last known good order of operation in the event the cannabis plant begins presenting issues.
 
KingJohnC said:
This is not necessarily bad advice to alternate watering with small plants, unknown nutrient lines and issues presenting themselves.

I recommend cautious conservative nutrient mixtures used with small cannabis plants. Far more damage is created by following aggressive nutrient feed schedules recommended meant for rooted clones which do not distinguish deference between seedling started from seeds or established rooted clones. To form your own opinion you are welcome to read through the forums to determine how prevalent and common seedling damage from using the recommended nutrient feed schedules or too high nutrient concentration occurs in real conditions.

I recommend beginning with 1/4 strength nutrients when the plant has 2 - 3 nodes of growth at around week 2 - 3 and gradually over multiple waterings increasing until full strength nutrients are used.

The starting source waters pH is too high and must be partially lowered and then the multiple bottled components added in specific order. If the order of operation is improper the reactions create bound complex nutrient combinations the plant can not easily access. If any single nutrient or micro nutrient is present in too high concentration it causes the other ingredients in the nutrient solution to negatively react with each other and either form much more complex combination forms of nutrients, form into solid suspended or crystallized salts, or combinations which are harmful to the cannabis plants.

Plants grown under LED lights require additional calcium and magnesium.

While adding the nutrients if you use a calcium supplement the calcium supplement must be added first to the water.

If using a calcium supplement in hydroponics do not allow the pH to rise above 6.3 otherwise the calcium will precipitate to a solid in suspension and not be absorb able by the plant. For example if a calcium supplement is added to either water or nutrient solution above pH 6.3 80% of the calcium returns to a suspended solid or if total combined dissolved saturation level of all ingredients is exceeded will form calcium powder and drop out of solution nearly immediately. Cannabis plants are not able to directly use solid calcium forms. In a nutrient solution calcium must be kept between pH 5.6 and pH 6.3 to be in a form usable for the cannabis plants requirements.

These negative interaction are more complex if incompatible nutrient lines are used or pH is too high in improper range to allow the multiple part ingredients to exist in their intended forms most easily accessible for the cannabis plants requirements.

Always shake your nutrients before use.

Always add your nutrients to water not each other, when added to each other they react and drop out of solution in a form that plants can not absorb.

Between each addition thoroughly mix each additive into the nutrient solution and allow 2 minutes minimum of rest for the component to finalize the reaction and become stable within the nutrient solution.

The issue I am having with BioBizz nutrients is they fail list the N-P-K values or ingredients of any of products, The descriptions they use are either intentionally vague or of dubious benefit. Without industry standard N-P-K values it is not possible to predict how the individual components react. I can not recommend using any nutrient product line where the N-P-K values and/or ingredients are deliberately hidden and a mystery to all. I am unsure if you may be able to inquire and receive this N-P-K and component information in order to predict interaction.

Even the bags of soil, black earth, cattle or sheep manure I purchase are marked with industry standard N-P-K values.

Regular Epsom Salts are Magnesium Sulfate and can be used as a source of magnesium supplement. You can foliar feed Epsom Salts at 2.5-5 millilitres per gallon. Epsom Salts can be used at 1-2 teaspoons per gallon as a magnesium and sulfate supplement to treat a deficiency. Some people have reported nutrient burns when using a higher dosage of Epsom Salts with a nutrient mixture.
MgSO4
https://en.wikipedia.org Magnesium sulfate

Start with adjusting the water sources pH below pH 6.

Add the calcium supplement first.

Add the Microbes additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Heaven additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Top Max additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the ActiVera additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Grow additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Bloom additive to the nutrient solution.

Mix the nutrients well into your solution.

the first few time that a new nutrient solution is replaced I would check and record the pH of the nutrient solution after each addition to maintain the pH in optimal range. This shall allow you to predict the amount of pH down required for the first initial source waters pH adjustment.

The municipal water supply that I use ranges from pH 7.2 - pH 7.7 seasonally and I must adjust water supply before adding any additive to the nutrient solution in order to prevent pH range nutrient lockouts which would otherwise occur as the nutrient mixture is created and render the mixture ineffective..

When mixing nutrients and adjusting the nutrient mixtures pH you must allow waiting time to approximately 12 - 20 minutes to allow the pH to balance after initial adjustment. the buffering effect of calcium excetera will first display a reading then pH buffer rebound shall change resultant pH of the mixture.

the order in which i adjust and add nutrients is

initial pH adjustment
If using a silica additive add to the nutrient solution before adding the calcium
Calcium supplement
Micro nutrients
Grow nutrients
Bloom nutrients
Possible other bloom enhancer
final pH adjustment

Please keep a notes for each nutrient mixture in a notepad with the order of the operation, what you are currently using and quantity in millilitres per gallon as a reference. The record will allow you to return back to a last known good order of operation in the event the cannabis plant begins presenting issues.
Click to expand...
Hi, my goddess that’s a lot to take in, it does however make perfect sense so thank you for taking the time to reply. I will be following your guidance with there next feed, thankfully they are looking much better but still a little light in Colour. Keeping my fingers crossed I get then back to good health again, before switching to flower.
 
I agree there are many variables to gain control over when creating a suitable nutrient solution mixture with a water source and available nutrient lines carried in a local areas availability. When you initially create a 1 - 5 gallon nutrient mixture you will become accustomed to using a predictable amount of pH down to pre adjust the water source into the optimal pH range and keeping your notes as a reference allows you to check the water supply is in seasonal pH range. This makes the records of how many millilitres per litre easy to follow for future waterings and should an issue present itself gives you a known good reference point to return to.

Once the nutrient solution is adjusted to proper pH range the cannabis plant will be able to use calcium and nitrogen which allows a lush dark green nitrogen rich healthy cannabis plant. The plant must return to a state of good health prior to the beginning of flower otherwise any present deficiency will only become magnified and negatively affect bud development in flower.

Many years ago I believed that I did not require to adjust the water source or nutrient mixtures final pH for my cannabis plants. It was not until i realized the cannabis leaf deficiencies were caused by improper pH range and actively calibrated the source water and final nutrient solutions pH in optimal pH range that i the gained control over the plants growth and harvested medical grade quality cannabis medicine.

After when you water please update the photographs of the plant so that we may also see the cannabis plants improvement.
 
Overwatering causes nutrient uptake problems. Stick your finger in the dirt..make sure its pretty dry feeling before you water. You are running your tent to cold. With LEDs you need to run your tent at 29c (84f) for proper LST (leaf surface temp.)
 
KingJohnC said:
This is not necessarily bad advice to alternate watering with small plants, unknown nutrient lines and issues presenting themselves.

I recommend cautious conservative nutrient mixtures used with small cannabis plants. Far more damage is created by following aggressive nutrient feed schedules recommended meant for rooted clones which do not distinguish deference between seedling started from seeds or established rooted clones. To form your own opinion you are welcome to read through the forums to determine how prevalent and common seedling damage from using the recommended nutrient feed schedules or too high nutrient concentration occurs in real conditions.

I recommend beginning with 1/4 strength nutrients when the plant has 2 - 3 nodes of growth at around week 2 - 3 and gradually over multiple waterings increasing until full strength nutrients are used.

The starting source waters pH is too high and must be partially lowered and then the multiple bottled components added in specific order. If the order of operation is improper the reactions create bound complex nutrient combinations the plant can not easily access. If any single nutrient or micro nutrient is present in too high concentration it causes the other ingredients in the nutrient solution to negatively react with each other and either form much more complex combination forms of nutrients, form into solid suspended or crystallized salts, or combinations which are harmful to the cannabis plants.

Plants grown under LED lights require additional calcium and magnesium.

While adding the nutrients if you use a calcium supplement the calcium supplement must be added first to the water.

If using a calcium supplement in hydroponics do not allow the pH to rise above 6.3 otherwise the calcium will precipitate to a solid in suspension and not be absorb able by the plant. For example if a calcium supplement is added to either water or nutrient solution above pH 6.3 80% of the calcium returns to a suspended solid or if total combined dissolved saturation level of all ingredients is exceeded will form calcium powder and drop out of solution nearly immediately. Cannabis plants are not able to directly use solid calcium forms. In a nutrient solution calcium must be kept between pH 5.6 and pH 6.3 to be in a form usable for the cannabis plants requirements.

These negative interaction are more complex if incompatible nutrient lines are used or pH is too high in improper range to allow the multiple part ingredients to exist in their intended forms most easily accessible for the cannabis plants requirements.

Always shake your nutrients before use.

Always add your nutrients to water not each other, when added to each other they react and drop out of solution in a form that plants can not absorb.

Between each addition thoroughly mix each additive into the nutrient solution and allow 2 minutes minimum of rest for the component to finalize the reaction and become stable within the nutrient solution.

The issue I am having with BioBizz nutrients is they fail list the N-P-K values or ingredients of any of products, The descriptions they use are either intentionally vague or of dubious benefit. Without industry standard N-P-K values it is not possible to predict how the individual components react. I can not recommend using any nutrient product line where the N-P-K values and/or ingredients are deliberately hidden and a mystery to all. I am unsure if you may be able to inquire and receive this N-P-K and component information in order to predict interaction.

Even the bags of soil, black earth, cattle or sheep manure I purchase are marked with industry standard N-P-K values.

Regular Epsom Salts are Magnesium Sulfate and can be used as a source of magnesium supplement. You can foliar feed Epsom Salts at 2.5-5 millilitres per gallon. Epsom Salts can be used at 1-2 teaspoons per gallon as a magnesium and sulfate supplement to treat a deficiency. Some people have reported nutrient burns when using a higher dosage of Epsom Salts with a nutrient mixture.
MgSO4
https://en.wikipedia.org Magnesium sulfate

Start with adjusting the water sources pH below pH 6.

Add the calcium supplement first.

Add the Microbes additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Heaven additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Top Max additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the ActiVera additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Grow additive to the nutrient solution.

Add the Bloom additive to the nutrient solution.

Mix the nutrients well into your solution.

the first few time that a new nutrient solution is replaced I would check and record the pH of the nutrient solution after each addition to maintain the pH in optimal range. This shall allow you to predict the amount of pH down required for the first initial source waters pH adjustment.

The municipal water supply that I use ranges from pH 7.2 - pH 7.7 seasonally and I must adjust water supply before adding any additive to the nutrient solution in order to prevent pH range nutrient lockouts which would otherwise occur as the nutrient mixture is created and render the mixture ineffective..

When mixing nutrients and adjusting the nutrient mixtures pH you must allow waiting time to approximately 12 - 20 minutes to allow the pH to balance after initial adjustment. the buffering effect of calcium excetera will first display a reading then pH buffer rebound shall change resultant pH of the mixture.

the order in which i adjust and add nutrients is

initial pH adjustment
If using a silica additive add to the nutrient solution before adding the calcium
Calcium supplement
Micro nutrients
Grow nutrients
Bloom nutrients
Possible other bloom enhancer
final pH adjustment

Please keep a notes for each nutrient mixture in a notepad with the order of the operation, what you are currently using and quantity in millilitres per gallon as a reference. The record will allow you to return back to a last known good order of operation in the event the cannabis plant begins presenting issues.
Click to expand...
Excellent post!!!!:Namaste:
 
Hi there! I had same issues with the same soil that you're using. What I noticed is that whenever I'm in veg and I let the soil dry out too much, the PH drops a hell lot. What I did to correct the issues was foliar feed with Epsom salt as well as top feed of dolomite lime to get the pH back. @Emilya would be a great person to ask. Thankfully, I took time to read all she wrote about watering some time back.
 
I stopped using BioBiz because I found myself having to regularly provide supplemental PK/Micros
You are using CaMg and ActiVera, right?
I'd be on (min) 1.5ml/L CaMg, 4ml/L Grow, 2ml/L Bloom, 4ml/L ActiVera, 1ml/L Root Juice
Looks like a hungry bush that wants to be a monster
 
Are you now using a calcium and magnesium supplement? The plants are displaying a magnesium deficiency by the upward curled edges of the leaves. Calcium and magnesium are both required for the cannabis plants to process and assimilate nitrogen.

Regular Epsom Salts are Magnesium Sulfate and can be used as a source of magnesium supplement. You can foliar feed Epsom Salts at 2.5-5 millilitres per gallon. Epsom Salts can be used at 1-2 teaspoons per gallon as a magnesium and sulfate supplement to treat a deficiency. Some people have reported nutrient burns when using a higher dosage of Epsom Salts with a nutrient mixture.
MgSO4
https://en.wikipedia.org Magnesium sulfate

The colour of the leaves are improving and the cannabis plants appear to have had a growth spurt.

The humidity can be increased and raised to 60% - 65% during vegetative growth.
 
KingJohnC said:
Are you now using a calcium and magnesium supplement? The plants are displaying a magnesium deficiency by the upward curled edges of the leaves. Calcium and magnesium are both required for the cannabis plants to process and assimilate nitrogen.

Regular Epsom Salts are Magnesium Sulfate and can be used as a source of magnesium supplement. You can foliar feed Epsom Salts at 2.5-5 millilitres per gallon. Epsom Salts can be used at 1-2 teaspoons per gallon as a magnesium and sulfate supplement to treat a deficiency. Some people have reported nutrient burns when using a higher dosage of Epsom Salts with a nutrient mixture.
MgSO4
https://en.wikipedia.org Magnesium sulfate

The colour of the leaves are improving and the cannabis plants appear to have had a growth spurt.

The humidity can be increased and raised to 60% - 65% during vegetative growth.
Click to expand...
Hi, again thanks for the detailed info, I am using cal mag at 1ml per L but perhaps I should up that a little, I will also get some Epsom salt and do as you have suggested, Is Epsom something I could find in a health shop ?

Many thanks
 

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