Wake up people

[datrippp]

You know its sad when a site dedicated to cannabis thinks theyve got to edit a thread name just because the 3 letters lsd are in the name. Until now I trully thought this site was different, But now see its just another hypocritical site thats scared to stand up for what it supposedly believes in. I got a message saying they changed the name of My post "LSD harvest, Paper or plastic" Because SOMEONE, might think Im GROWING a halucinogen. lol.. Im starting to think this site only cares about the $ side of it all. It dont matter how you label it, i.e. "medicinal", Cannabis is still illegal on a federal level which trumps state every time. Every one of my social sites and profiles had direct links to this site, and its sponsors, Now Im thinking about removing them, I dont want to be a hypocrit who says this is ok, but not that. When realistically they are the same damn thing. Im sure Ill get blasted on this, But Atleast I have the balls to stand up for what I believe in, instead of making it appear Like I do but then change at the drop of a hat just so I dont MAYBE, offend some idiot who dont have a clue. Ill be surprised if this post even makes it on the forum, But I guess thats a good test to see where this site really stands, Do we really have freedom of speech, Because if I cant even say the name of a strain like LSD than Im saying NO, this site does not give you the freedom we were all Given By birthright. And I refuse to just laydown and let them dictate what I say and do. I wish this site could say the same. I havent Broken any rules, or even had any issues here until now.
So if people want to start bashing me for standing up for myself, and what I believe in, Have at it.
Datrippp

 

[art fog]

I see what you are saying about the gutless editing and in a way thinking along that line I would say 420 Mag is like a liberal and of course this reflects the paranoia of the hippies or 'unless' it is like good neighbors watching out for one another after all we are connected (we had to get personal w/ the neighborhood if only because we were land locked of course you could just care about the neighborhood). With all of that being said I think 420 can have a reasonable conversation w/ all of us using the colloquial, LSD, and without being intimidated in this transitional period of medical marijuana. I going to watch some George Carlin.

 

[Captain Kronic]

I agree w/much of what has been typed by the 2 poster above me. I have had many posts edited or just trashed altogether.

Just for the record, I have run sites/forums on a few different scenes on the W3 and I feel I am more than qualified to chime in here as I believe this is of utmost importance in the keeping of a healthy, happy, mostly free web family... that's what we ideally are!

I do understand that the rules implemented on this site are there for a reason... that doesn't mean that they are permanent and not in need of revision, failure to do so can keep a site in the dark ages till all free thinking members move on elsewhere to a place they feel best represents them as a forum/family member.

W/o diving into a long ass diatribe on what I like or think, I will try, to quicly convey my thoughts on this matter...
I really do feel that, if we are to bill this site as a "mature, family atmosphere canna educational type forum"... then some of the rules do need to be amended to give us the freedom to express ourselves on issues dealing w/real life cannabis issues and other things like...
What is wrong w/a thread that talks about pairing beer and wine w/certain strains of cannabis... seems to me that, that particular subject is in keeping w/mature, real life cannabis usage... yet, I wrote a thread exactly like that and it was removed because of the mention of alcohol!

My point is this... I can't be the only one who feels like someone is holding me by the lilly white to make sure I don't cross the proverbial lines!
I could see if there were some big prob w/members spamming useless garbage to make post points but... I feel that at large, the member stock here seems very much mature enough that the staffers could lighten up on the post editing/trashing and let the big people talk!

No offense is meant to any of 4420staffers/members, in fact, having done every forum job from mod to Admin... I retain the utmost respect for those who give so freely of their time... thanks!

 

[medme]

I agree w/much of what has been typed by the 2 poster above me. I have had many posts edited or just trashed altogether.

Just for the record, I have run sites/forums on a few different scenes on the W3 and I feel I am more than qualified to chime in here as I believe this is of utmost importance in the keeping of a healthy, happy, mostly free web family... that's what we ideally are!

I do understand that the rules implemented on this site are there for a reason... that doesn't mean that they are permanent and not in need of revision, failure to do so can keep a site in the dark ages till all free thinking members move on elsewhere to a place they feel best represents them as a forum/family member.

W/o diving into a long ass diatribe on what I like or think, I will try, to quicly convey my thoughts on this matter...
I really do feel that, if we are to bill this site as a "mature, family atmosphere canna educational type forum"... then some of the rules do need to be amended to give us the freedom to express ourselves on issues dealing w/real life cannabis issues and other things like...
What is wrong w/a thread that talks about pairing beer and wine w/certain strains of cannabis... seems to me that, that particular subject is in keeping w/mature, real life cannabis usage... yet, I wrote a thread exactly like that and it was removed because of the mention of alcohol!

My point is this... I can't be the only one who feels like someone is holding me by the lilly white to make sure I don't cross the proverbial lines!
I could see if there were some big prob w/members spamming useless garbage to make post points but... I feel that at large, the member stock here seems very much mature enough that the staffers could lighten up on the post editing/trashing and let the big people talk!

No offense is meant to any of 4420staffers/members, in fact, having done every forum job from mod to Admin... I retain the utmost respect for those who give so freely of their time... thanks!

very well said.....!

 

[art fog]

Captain I am an artist and I know the "proverbial lines" you speak of. Not that I try to cross the line all the time but you see what you see and it may be in the twilight or the more civil side. The point is we evolve and the friction happens when you cross over the established fence. I picture this like standing in the middle of a giant ring or sphere and up to the edge of the sphere is what we know or established. Going over the edge or fence is breaking the bound. There in lies the rub in order for us to grow or as I usually call a successful painting 'add to civilization' you break the mold or go where no man has gone (or as far as we may know) crossing the boundary. When you cross over we all grow because the sphere has been enlarged. I think you are having a border dispute and it is about time for a update or change. I think you are right on course to ad something good.

 

[PrairiePoet]

While I do wish we could use this as a open mature family oriented forum, where we can post thoughts, questions, answers, without any flitering, editing or .......

I do not mistake this forum to be anything other than a place for profit business running it, to help spread their views on the subject. Since they are For Profit, they put their company into a liability for all posts made. I too have ran, moderated other forums/social area's. some for non-profit, some for profit, and some for loosely connected social groups.

Prairie

 

[Stilletto]

This is an interesting conversation. I was going to jump on the bandwagon and start talking about freedom of speech, and legality etc..... but then I stopped and thought about it for a minute, it wasn't long before I changed my opinion. Here is why.
This site is owned by someone, they started it and set down rules to it's users, they monitor it and have the right to control it. This is a basic form of freedom, let me give you an analogy; I do not allow smoking in my house. I smoke a tobbacco pipe myself but always outside. If you come to my house and light up a smoke you are disrespecting me. If you say "well you smoke pot in your house so why can't I smoke cigarrettes?" Why, because it is my house and I make the rules.
This site is here for me to "visit" and while I am here I will follow the rules put down by it's owners. If I do not like these rules I will not visit.
I also have a freind with kids, when we visit thier house they do not swear or allow swearing around thier children... seems fair, so I refrain from swearing. But... on a visit to my house they asked that I not swear while the kids were there. Out of basic respect I did not swear around thier kids but told my friend that if they decided to visit again to leave thier kids at home, they never visited again.
It is a matter of freedoms, I accepted thier rules when I was visiting them but they expected me to obey thier rules when they visited me.
In context to this site, I obey the rules cause I am visiting someone elses site, I obey thier rules. Whether I agree with the rules or not is not the point, the freedom of the sites owners give them the right to make the rules how they see fit.
On a personal note: I have visited many drug forums and specifically chose this one because of it's rules. I do not care about topics or conversations about other drugs, just pot, so this site is great for that reason.
Now, I will say that the moderators in my opinion made an error. They need to take into context the use of these words. If I start a topic called "Marijuana found to assist treatment of cocaine addiction." (or in this case a strain called lsd), the moderators need to use common sense to decide if it should be deleted.
I respectfully accept the moderators decissions in these matters but ask that they edit using common sense not a system wide rule that can not be bent.

Jonny

 

[Hogdady]

I would personally like to thank Rob and every staff member for your tireless efforts in bringing us this forum. While I may not agree with every moderating decision, I wholeheartedly stand behind your efforts and applaud the success 420 has had in bringing Cannabis awareness to it's members!

 

[Xlr8]

This is an interesting conversation. I was going to jump on the bandwagon and start talking about freedom of speech, and legality etc..... but then I stopped and thought about it for a minute, it wasn't long before I changed my opinion. Here is why.
This site is owned by someone, they started it and set down rules to it's users, they monitor it and have the right to control it. This is a basic form of freedom, let me give you an analogy; I do not allow smoking in my house. I smoke a tobbacco pipe myself but always outside. If you come to my house and light up a smoke you are disrespecting me. If you say "well you smoke pot in your house so why can't I smoke cigarrettes?" Why, because it is my house and I make the rules.
This site is here for me to "visit" and while I am here I will follow the rules put down by it's owners. If I do not like these rules I will not visit.
I also have a freind with kids, when we visit thier house they do not swear or allow swearing around thier children... seems fair, so I refrain from swearing. But... on a visit to my house they asked that I not swear while the kids were there. Out of basic respect I did not swear around thier kids but told my friend that if they decided to visit again to leave thier kids at home, they never visited again.
It is a matter of freedoms, I accepted thier rules when I was visiting them but they expected me to obey thier rules when they visited me.
In context to this site, I obey the rules cause I am visiting someone elses site, I obey thier rules. Whether I agree with the rules or not is not the point, the freedom of the sites owners give them the right to make the rules how they see fit.
On a personal note: I have visited many drug forums and specifically chose this one because of it's rules. I do not care about topics or conversations about other drugs, just pot, so this site is great for that reason.
Now, I will say that the moderators in my opinion made an error. They need to take into context the use of these words. If I start a topic called "Marijuana found to assist treatment of cocaine addiction." (or in this case a strain called lsd), the moderators need to use common sense to decide if it should be deleted.
I respectfully accept the moderators decissions in these matters but ask that they edit using common sense not a system wide rule that can not be bent.

Jonny

It's a fine line that must be walked, and like you - I chose this forum in part because of the rules and the way they're moderated. Is it perfect? No. But, I've been around here enough to feel confident that peoples hearts are in the right spot 99.9%+ of the time when it comes to moderating, etc.

Bottom line is this - it takes money, courage and a lot of effort to run a site like this, and I appreciate what we have here. Big thanks to all who work tirelessly to make this site great, and continuously improve it.

 

[Closet Farmer]

I grew the same too and had it changed to LUCY! It really is too bad we cannot speak openly. This used to be a really great site with alot of activity. I have noticed that the last 6 months the activity level has gone down.

Of all the other sites on the internet. Even with the flaws, I still like this one the best.

 

[Hogdady]

I grew the same too and had it changed to LUCY! It really is too bad we cannot speak openly. This used to be a really great site with alot of activity. I have noticed that the last 6 months the activity level has gone down.

Of all the other sites on the internet. Even with the flaws, I still like this one the best.

I don't think it's an issue of speaking openly. It's a question of word searches for non-cannabis drugs being linked to 420. That's my understanding.

 

[HempRocket]

I agree with Stilletto. You have to follow the rules or else you can leave. Having said that, this is actually a great discussion because the rules are not written in stone. I'm sure that if we have a meaningful discussion about some topic and present the Editor with solid arguments, I don't see a reason why the rules cannot change.

Keeping with Stilletto's theme, here is my analogy. At one point I used to live alone. I had certain rules at my own house that I followed and expected other people (who were visiting my house) to follow as well. Let's just say that I, not unlike Stilletto, liked to swear in my own house. Whoever didn't like it didn't have to come to my house. I then got married and had kids. My wife asked me to stop swearing (at least in front of the kids) and even though I had a rule that opposed that request, I thought about her argument and decided to CHANGE my rule about being able to swear in my house whenever I wanted.

This scenario is not unlike what is happening here. Even though this site has an owner, be it a non-profit, or for-profit owner, this site could not exist without the members. There wouldn't need to be an Editor if all the people on this site suddenly went somewhere else. I understand that that is a very unlikely scenario but it COULD happen. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the Editor (or owner of the site) should listen to the members of the site and take their opinions and arguments under consideration instead of just applying the rules blindly. Also, we do not live in a perfect world and all rules could potentially be BENT. I see this on this very site every single day that people try to bend the rules a bit. That's not to say that it's a bad thing because if no human ever tried to change the rules, we would all still be ruled by kings and princes.

The other side of the coin is that I think people do get hung up on the idea of free speech. What is free speech? Free speech does not exist in some sort of vaccuum in which it doesn't affect anything else. In a democracy we value many freedoms and sometimes one clashes with another. For example, if I was to go around calling certain people racial slurs I could hide behind the notion that I am entitled to free speech. But again, I wouldn't be doing these things in a vaccuum. My actions would have an impact on other human beings who also have freedoms. They could claim that my freedom to free speech is encroaching on their freedom to security of the person and equality. So what I'm trying to say is that we should express ourselves but we are not immune from the rules that govern our lives. It is the same with this site. We can express ourselves within the guidelines of this site. Until those guidelines and rules change, we should abide by them.

On a personal note, I believe that all drugs should be legalized and not only cannabis. It is very unfortunate that those in power believe that we should be throwing people in prison for simple drug possession. It is absolutely ridiculous. Do I think that it would be nice to reference alcohol or tabacco on this site? Sure I do. Those substances are legal and I think referencing those substances does not take away from the Mission Statement of this great website.

 

[Bandit420]

A lot of great points from some outstanding members!
In the overall scheme of things this site is about the liberation of cannabis. That is one helluva a monumental task for me personally being a Norml member for close to a decade and a member here for a year.
In this fight for liberation we take millimeters of progress where ever we can get it and the last thing I want is for this fight to be muddied up by other illegal drugs.
Linking cannabis to other drugs plays too much in the favor of prohibition supporters.
It's unfortunate that Barney's Farm could not have chose a better name for their strain. We have Jack Herer & Wille Nelson. Maybe they should have gone with Timothy Leary... idk but it is a poor name choice for a strain of cannabis. But then so is Cat Piss.
With that it's not hard to stay within the bounds of the forum rules just like it would not be hard for me to not smoke in Stillettos house.
When it comes to that strain just call it another name or something like Barneys Farm L$* and we'll all know what you're talking about

EDIT: As for free speech...take a look around at what this site is about and what we talk about. We enjoy incredible freedom being able to discuss legalization, cultivation, and other various uses for cannabis. There's also sub forums for off topic stuff and creative expression! Try doing what we do here on this site in Libya, North Korea, or China my friends.

 

[HB Rob]

Do we really have freedom of speech, Because if I cant even say the name of a strain like LSD than Im saying NO, this site does not give you the freedom we were all Given By birthright.

You're confusing a private website with public domain. Like you said, cannabis is still illegal at the federal level. As such, this website is a privilege not a constitutional right.

Look at the bigger picture. Keeping 420mag unrelated to other subjects does more good than you know.

 

[Bandit420]

I also understand 420Mag not wanting to be associated with "other drug topics" Come on! One of the collectives I was going to changed the names of 2 of the strains they had because they didn't like being associated with crack. So instead of Green Crack and Blue Crack they are now Green Goddess and Blue Goddess. Did it stop me from going there? No! Just like I wont stop coming here.


Peace to you all

My hat's off to your local collective 52.
I only wish seed banks would use the same discretion. It's not just the strains that are named after other drugs but also strains that open thoughts of violence or tragedy.
Strains like AK47, Armageddon,,Auto Assassin, Auto Mini Gun, Ill Diavolo, Devil Fruit, Chernobyl, among others may be excellent strains but their names set cannabis freedom back a few paces by giving the wrong impression to law makers and that's something we cannot afford at this point in history.
If breeders are conscious enough to not name a strain 911, Holocaust, Final Solution, or Osama then they should think twice about the names they choose that invoke thoughts of hard drugs, violence, or tragedy.

 

[Captain Kronic]

Well, I only came here to learn and share what I learn about this wonderful, life giving/changing plant.
All the rest, I could really give a shite about... the rules are what they are for the reasons set forth by the SysOp and whoever else assisted w/the writing of the aforementioned rules.
Most of us don't know what is going on behind the scenes, legalities, staffing, sponsors/advertising and the revenue that comes from it!

There is a lot more to it than meets the eye...
All of that to say this... what it comes down to is... if you don't like it here.... see ya!

 

[art fog]

First of all I would like to correct myself. I do not have a lot of experience w/ blogs and forums, just a beginner. My perception of the site is rudimentary because of ignorance. I tend to narrow everything down to one category. I see the header first of all with 420 Magazine pictured in a field of marijuana and ignore the fact this site is composed of parts like a pie cut into sections /categories. But of course that is very simple of me (I have not just entered a shoe store to buy shoes). The more I read the less ignorant I become which makes 420 more enlightening.
Okay. back to the program....
Your mentioned how you handle your home but our house is not open to the public. The site on the other hand is here for all the people of interest. It is also kind of like a learning institution. Your home all though we grow when we socialize it is still your cave. and of course I want it to be that personal but a site such as this must have common rules.

420 is a business that involves people, a public assembly. A business with good products usually has a customer base. That being said this business product is not like selling batteries in which case we would know for sure several times after using them what works and what doesn't (even w/ out asking anyones advice) . The forum is educational and requires decorum. I have been getting so much info here this is better than and college.

 

[Julie Gardener]

So many good points listed above!!! 420 is a place for 'Cannabis Awareness'. I don't blame the staff for removing anything that references or pertains to any other drug, legal or not, other than cannabis. I love this site and have learned so much and it really does make sense for them to keep it clean so to speak.

 

[Bruce Wheelman]

I guess I should also chime in, as I was the Moderator that made the fateful edit to datrippp's post — changing the reference from L$D to Lucy — and hence starting this thread. I'll address this first — 420Magazine understands you are not trying to "grow" L$D, but by having the hard drug references on the site, they will become linked to the site in WWW searches. This would be detrimental to the 420Magazine mission of raising Cannabis awareness, as the 420 movement would continue to be associated with the hard drugs mentioned. For what it's worth the hard drug strain names issue has come up at local Collectives in Northern California, and the owners are changing the name to a commonly accepted alias to avoid the wrong connotation and potential problems with Law Enforcement.

Honestly, I have been where those of you that are questioning the editing are. Last June, I had 2 or 3 of my posts edited or deleted for discussing a strain named after a hard drug, making alcohol based tinctures, and then about a brew pub I went to in Seattle. Was I irritated? Yes. Did I feel like a child being scolded? Yes. Did I "pick up my toys and go home" (ie leave)? No. I re-read the site Posting Guidelines, actually reading them this time, and making sure I followed them.

The why is obvious — this is a great site providing a wealth of information about Cannabis. From US/International news, to medical information, to cooking, to growing, to general discussion topics — 420Magazine has it all. I also grew to appreciate and realize the reason I like this site over the Cannabis related sites is the Moderation. That's what keeps the kids off the site, and threads/posts going in the right direction. We have mature site with constructive discussions — devoid of flame wars and childish bashing of new members — open to all forms of Cannabis discussion (and even some non-Cannabis forums too).

How does one become a world-renowned website without all the childish BS and borderline illegal activities (constant hook-up requests)? By maintaining a degree of professionalism that adults will continue to frequent and exchange ideas/information. As an added benefit, running the site in this manner also attracts Sponsors; which helps pay to keep the site running and also improve the site; which attracts more members; which brings in more Sponsors.... This is only possible through Moderation. Even with the best of intentions (I'm a 40+ professional that was NOT trying to generate edits), sometimes our posts violate the sites rules. I/we as Moderators understand the post was not necessarily meant to cause a problem, but without the editing, it breaks one of the various site rules set up to protect 420Magazine and you as a USER/MEMBER.

Which brings up the topic of the site rules. 420Magazine is a privately run company. Most companies have rules and policies that employees and customers MUST abide by if they want to be employed or use the goods/services the company provides. It's no different than living in your parent's home as kids (or like my friend had to do recently, due to losing his job/home). We've all heard the old saying, "My house, my rules," well this is not a publically or member owned site. It's privately owned and PAID for, so we either follow the rules established...or not participate. Again — similar to what several of you have posted — would you allow people to continue to come to your home if they refused to follow basic rules you have and provided to them? What would you do to your kids if they refuse to comply with the rules you set? We are in 420Magazines "house" and must play by his rules.

I know the public agency I worked for was notorious for being unable to fire employees due to lack of productivity. Yet I saw 4 people shown the door in the last 18 months for not following our statewide computer policy (and I'm not talking about porn sites — these guys were checking e-mail and general surfing). Another rather harsh example of what happens when rules are not followed.

To me, it's the on-going dilemma of wanting all the freedom without any governing rules or guidelines. Sounds more like chaos than an adult orientated/mature open discussion forum. I know I'm a member of other discussion forums on the WWW, and the areas that are unmoderated always end up with the fairly regular pissing match and member bashing that causes me to skip that site for several days. Not so with 420Magazine.

Lastly, the rules are in place in an effort to maintain the same HIGH standards and discussions that 420Magazine has established over the past 19 years. These rules have avoided any problems with Law Enforcement or Government Agencies, and we as members AGREE TO FOLLOW them when we sign up. Yep — we all agreed to follow the site guidelines when we REQUESTED the PRIVELAGE to post to this privately owned site. Yes the site is open to public VIEWING, but to post and interact, you must be a MEMBER. So if one feels the rules are too restrictive, maybe it's time to re-evaluate your membership and posting privileges.

Please consider this opportunity to re-read the rules you have agreed to follow. I know 420Magazine appreciates your contributions and continued support. I look forward to everyone's continued participation.

and

 

[art fog]

Sounds reasonable. checking out the rules, amen