Too much light?
- Thread starter tav
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seaofgreen18
Well-Known Member
Yes
Download the photone app off the playstore and you can make sure you don't exceed the recommended ppfd for the stage your plants are at .
seaofgreen18
Well-Known Member
Need a meter if you want to know if you have enough light or not if you want to dial it in my question is are you just experimenting around or do you REALLY need extra light trying to fix an issue?
More info for the folks here please
More info for the folks here please
what is the actual wall draw ? never go by a claimed equivalent. if the wall draw is 350w, the light is a 350w light. the 600w won't mean dick.
how large is your grow space ? just use the standard watt calculation for determining the wattage needed.
simple rule of thumb is a minimum of 35w sq/ft.
example :
4 x 4 growing area = 4x4 = 16sq/ft
16 x 35 = 560W
560w minimum would be sufficient for a plant in flower in a 4 x 4.
SparkNShred
Well-Known Member
Don't you mean TOO much?
We would need the model of the Philzon, one 600W I looked up had a draw of 100w, another 640 model actually drew 640. Use @bluter ‘s formula, it’ll get you in the ballpark.
There are 2 different wattages one is the wattage a led fitting draws and the wattage the fitting outputs they won't be the same on a LED fitting . This is why LED'S are used for light fittings in households because they are cheaper and more economical to run for the output of light so comparing consumption wattage with output wattage doesn't really work
you can't output more than you draw. it's not possible. physics.
this is where everyone gets confused about led, and where cheesey mfgrs create the space to rip folks off.
there are two ways they do this.
the wattage a led puts out is not greater than what it draws. the amount of lumens, or par, or ppfd, a led can develop is greater than what a hid can manage consuming the exact same amount of energy. the difference between the two is the amount lost to heat.
bad builders use the difference to claim the actual wattage output is greater than the input. it is not.
the second way they do this is related to how a led emitter is powered.
led emitters are never powered to full capacity as a safety factor. even when fully powered a led emitter is never really driven past 50% of its capacity. bad mfgrs also use this space to claim the light is capable of reaching outputs greater than the inputs, when in fact it is never used.
honest mfgrs only make wattage claims based on what the driver consumes at capacity, which should be the same as actual draw from the wall. that's why led growers always talk about actual draw or wall draw. that's a far more true comparison.
the only meaningful measure of wattage on a light is only what the driver can manage. if it consumes 100w, it is a 100w light.
bottom line : what you are looking for is the amount of ppfd that can be created for the exact same watts consumed between any two lights.
Led lights output more light than incandescent filament lights because they are more efficient therefore the actual output wattage is greater than the consumption wattage.
I get what you are saying about manufacturers but they aren't all the same
The output is not measured in wattage. It is measured in lumens and the LED bulbs produce the 'equivelant' amount of lumens as an old style incandescent bulb but use fewer watts.
At one time the majority of households used incandescent bulbs which were ranked by wattage. When the costs of energy went up people wanted a light source that used fewer watts but still provided the level of light they were used to.
it's an oversimplification. they can produce more par, or ppfd, because they are more efficient and lose less heat for the amount of watt consumed. nothing can put more energy out than is consumed.
it's honestly physics. law of conversion, energy can only be converted, not created.
this is the exact area where growers get confused and is the area mined for ripping folks off by unscrupulous vendors.
growers got used to talking in terms of watt when we were stuck with dinosaur lighting. it does not work the same in led. the true measure is the amount of ppfd for energy consumed.
Then one day the last remaining bit of energy & matter will finally be sucked into the only black hole left. And a trillionth of a second later it will explode and produce the next big bang and we start over.
yup. need to make the most of it while we're here.
better get another grow going ...
Correct, that is partially my point to say a 100w incandescent globe is putting out the same performance for the wattage just isn't true you get more light for your buck with LED'S or we wouldn't be saving money on our electricity bills by fitting LED lighting in our houses.
And I understand physics but it comes down to efficiency LED lights are more efficient
yes, but they don't create energy. using wattage as a measure is misleading. the whole industry has been grappling with it, not just horticulture applications.
i've worked with led in show production for a long time, there's other weird stuff about it. it's insanely compact and directional, even at the photon level, effecting travel, and penetration. some of the older par meters used to freak out trying to measure it.
True but they use that energy more efficiently giving you more luminance
yes. but that is not measured in watt.
edit : think of it more as ppfd per watt, ppfd/watt, not watt output. which is how the leading mfgrs are now rating their rigs.
True, but its the result we are after how much luminance and the point i was trying to make is per wattage the luminance from LED is more efficient therefore better bang for your buck than incandescent lighting
So working things out by wattage to get the best luminance is a little inaccurate
So working things out by wattage to get the best luminance is a little inaccurate
nothing to feel bad about.
you're not the only one dealing with this. the whole industry has been trying to find a better way to explain how it works. there are engineers working with it that turn themselves inside out trying for a simpler comparison.
in the automotive lighting world they don't use watt at all. it's all about kelvin and throw, similar to what i do in show production. we never talk about led fixtures in terms of watt. it's all about throw.
we do talk about standard fixtures in terms of watt, but never for output. wattage is important to know on dino fixtures so we can run enough power through the rig safely. watts are only ever referred to in terms of input.
