To decarb or not to decarb?

L

Lab Rat

New Member
Before I start and knowing this topic is gonna rub a lot of people the wrong way I will briefly tell you what I have. I have a cavernous angioma in my brainstem that caused the left side of my body with numbess, pins and needles and very bad motor skills. There no known treatment other than surgery (which is not always an option) and the symptoms include seizures, nausea, loss of balance, uncontrollable muscle spasms , headaches, hearing and/or vision problems, respiratory difficulties, etc. It's like epilepsy, MS and Parkinson's rolled into 1. It's not a tumor and it's not cancer so it doesn't react the same way. Its more about neuro-protection and neuro-regeneration.

My dad is an organic chemist and helps me out and I used to be a pilot and I'm anal about precision; things are not done just because people have always done them or because everyone says so; there has to a scientific reason.

Just like there are a lot of false rumors surrounding weed (that we all know are not true) there are a lot of rumors about oil and the right way to do it. Someone gets cured of cancer and its follow that recipe and don't ask questions.

Recently I tried this CBDa oil that an old guy makes at home by squeezing cannabis seeds. I worked better than anything I had tried before. When I switched from vaping to oil I was amazed, when I switched from decarbed oil to his non-decarbed oil it was amazing. Made me question all the time I had wasted.

Note: if you have nausea, lack of appetite, insomnia, stress or PTSD you have to decarb for high THC.

I have started looking heavily into THCa and CBDa, into juicing the plant and making oil from the remaining material. At least for my illness I have found it help greatly but I have also seen that topical application of the same oil works great to reduce backpain and arthritis , more so than trying to reduce the pain by taking it orally.
I found that this video helped greatly.

[video=youtube;qgEP9FdIzT8]
[/video]
 
I decarboxylate all my leaf and C grade buds using the sous vide method (boil-a-bag) for 45 minutes at 220 C. Then air for an hour followed by a 24 hr wash in Ethyl alcohol. I then vacuum filter through a Büchner funnel then short path distill off the alcohol to recapture at 80 C. This leaves me with crude oil (RSO) that I then run a single pass through the SPD apparatus to refine the oil to about 70% THC. The end result is a light golden shatter that I make capsules out of. 1 drop per capsule taken 2 times a day treats my severe chron's. I can't take it at night because it makes me "alarmingly high".


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I'm not sure it's the THC. There are other properties in cannabis that are medicinal not just THC or CBD. For me inflammation of the lower intestine and bowel (calm down sexy) that cause the pain. I know the CBD was around 2% on my last run. But this is a fact....my swelling did not reduce drastically until I decarbed. The RSO I made before decarboxylation got me high but had little anti-inflammatory properties. Im waiting for some high CBD seeds for the next batch.
I think I can get better relief with a CBD with less "freakout and lock the door high" lol. Way beyond couch lock, way beyond greening out. This is an out of body experience kinda high. Don't really need that level of incapacity in my life.


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:rollit: I think that it may be beneficial for many of us to have decarbed products and also natural juiced or cold pressed oils or whatever form of substance or method of consumption we can have, at various stages of drying and aging. The whole plant is good for us! We just have to work on our custom dosing plans! :high-five: We can tweak the strains, find the best set of component ratios (CBD, THC, THCa, , CBG, etc.) , we can administer with various methods (Dab, Edibles, Vape, Smoke, Suppository) , seeking the optimum effectiveness for our needs that we may obtain! :cco: Some people will have a narrower focus, especially if they are healthy and that may be wise. I mean, if a person is in good health and living well, with a balanced diet and life style , they may not have the regular need for High THC activity, but the anti inflammatory and other beneficial aspects of other components will still be excellent for maintenance of their body systems. I have found that I, and I think many others who have used pot for many decades, failed for a long time to realize that we should be focused on dosing ourselves for optimum health effects more and for the purpose of getting ripped, less! :lot-o-toke: Finding the best plan for you, is paramount in using cannabis as a medicinal! Vaping and smoking the same plants can be quite different in effect than juicing it or having some butter! Finding the dose that controls my pain and leaves me fairly functional in the day is good for the morning, another dose in the evening that will help me to eat and sleep well while also controlling pain is the right thing for me! CBD doesn't do it for me alone! THC doesn't either! Decarbed buds made into edibles do wonders for me at times, if I keep the dosage right. I find I have to dial that in with the availability of products to me here! It changes along with availability from time to time. :lot-o-toke: My habitual overdosing of smoke blinded me somewhat to the other goodness of the plant! Smoking alone never controls my RA pain as well as an edible/butter. The edible butter can be enhanced by smoking when the pain is severe for the optimum results. A tincture, oil or a topical application can all be used for various conditions and effects. Juicing has come to my attention and I can see that as a good idea for my trials. In other words, There is good reasons for using all forms of cannabis, just differing needs of the users!:thumb:
 
Lab Rat describing daily torment from his brainstem problem ... said:
the symptoms include seizures, nausea, loss of balance, uncontrollable muscle spasms , headaches, hearing and/or vision problems, respiratory difficulties, etc. It's like epilepsy, MS and Parkinson's rolled into one. [....]

Recently I tried this CBDa oil that an old guy makes at home by squeezing cannabis seeds. I worked better than anything I had tried before. When I switched from vaping to oil I was amazed, when I switched from decarbed oil to his non-decarbed oil it was amazing. Made me question all the time I had wasted.
Click to expand...

Lab Rat last participated here 2 months back so he probably won't read this, but his post touches on a query I share: why do we decarb cannabis oil that is destined for use in high doses in cancer treatment?

Am I correct in understanding that for medicinal use THCA is as efficacious as the psychoactive THC? I would really appreciate it if someone could point to an authoratitive source to support or contradict this statement.

Since we know that patients must cautiously titrate up to high doses of the order of 1 gram of that active ingredient per day, and we know that at this dosage the psychoactive THC is just itching to play with the mind, then why not skip the decarboxylation and equip the patient with an equally-potent cancer-killing medication based on THCA that won't play scary mind games?

I'm sure there must be a good reason, but in my reading on the topic it seems to have escaped me. :;):

(Note: where Lab Rat talks of producing the oil by squeezing cannabis seeds, he may be describing extraction of hemp seed oil, or he may be describing juicing high-CBD cannabis buds. In either case, that otherwise-crucial detail happens to be incidental to my specific question.)

I'm new here, but you don't have to be gentle! :blushsmile:
 
how about natural decarbing?

Either way, oil or buds will naturally decarb. Heat is only used to speed up the process.

Heat causes just as much damage when heating buds to dry as it does when heating oil to decarb. In each scenario it degrades the product. On the flip side, you get what you want more quickly.

There are many things about cannabis that effect the buzz. Pure THC is usually not the problem, that is a more visual, relaxing, mellow buzz. It is the other compounds in cannabis that alter the effects. The terpenes alone can intensify the buzz, but are also capable of reducing the buzz.

I like naturally decarbed the best, but I don't always have time to wait.
 
Grow Goddess said:
how about natural decarbing?

Either way, oil or buds will naturally decarb. Heat is only used to speed up the process.

Heat causes just as much damage when heating buds to dry as it does when heating oil to decarb. In each scenario it degrades the product. On the flip side, you get what you want more quickly.

There are many things about cannabis that effect the buzz. Pure THC is usually not the problem, that is a more visual, relaxing, mellow buzz. It is the other compounds in cannabis that alter the effects. The terpenes alone can intensify the buzz, but are also capable of reducing the buzz.

I like naturally decarbed the best, but I don't always have time to wait.
Click to expand...

Hi Grow Goddess:)

Natural decarbing really interests me. Can you please share what it is you do to decarb naturally? I know time is needed but how long and how to store the buds?

Many thanks
 
Chew said:
Hi Grow Goddess:)

Natural decarbing really interests me. Can you please share what it is you do to decarb naturally? I know time is needed but how long and how to store the buds?

Many thanks
Click to expand...


Not too much really.

With the buds; I seal dry fresh buds in a jar. It is very important that the buds are dry to eliminate the possibility of mold. It takes 4 to 6 months in sealed storage for the natural decarbing of the buds to take place.

The oil is a bit more complicated. I use dram vials, usually 4 or 8 dram in size. I fill the vial only halfway. It takes 90 to 120 days for the oil to naturally decarb. You can tell by the taste of the oil when it is done. In order for the process to complete properly, the oil must be in a liquid state, not much thicker than honey. Also, I put the dram vials into another jar in the event the top breaks from the pressure build up or leaks. A few times per week I open the vials to release the CO2 that is created during the process. You need to take caution when opening the vials to do this because it can react like a shaken soda can, and fizz right over the top. The fizzing typically does not start until around 90 days and that is when I start "burping" the vials to release the CO2. It may take up to a month after the fizzing begins until is stops. That is when the product is decarbed. Each batch I have done has shown different timing and offered different results. I call this ND Sap. I believe it is the most medicinal oil that can be created from cannabis. The reason why; there is no heat used in the process, to where there is minimal damage and minimal loss to essential terpenes.

For each type of natural decarbing the jars are stored in a cool, dark place, (not a refrigerator). Room temperature is sufficient.
 
Grow Goddess said:
Not too much really.

With the buds; I seal dry fresh buds in a jar. It is very important that the buds are dry to eliminate the possibility of mold. It takes 4 to 6 months in sealed storage for the natural decarbing of the buds to take place.

The oil is a bit more complicated. I use dram vials, usually 4 or 8 dram in size. I fill the vial only halfway. It takes 90 to 120 days for the oil to naturally decarb. You can tell by the taste of the oil when it is done. In order for the process to complete properly, the oil must be in a liquid state, not much thicker than honey. Also, I put the dram vials into another jar in the event the top breaks from the pressure build up or leaks. A few times per week I open the vials to release the CO2 that is created during the process. You need to take caution when opening the vials to do this because it can react like a shaken soda can, and fizz right over the top. The fizzing typically does not start until around 90 days and that is when I start "burping" the vials to release the CO2. It may take up to a month after the fizzing begins until is stops. That is when the product is decarbed. Each batch I have done has shown different timing and offered different results. I call this ND Sap. I believe it is the most medicinal oil that can be created from cannabis. The reason why; there is no heat used in the process, to where there is minimal damage and minimal loss to essential terpenes.

For each type of natural decarbing the jars are stored in a cool, dark place, (not a refrigerator). Room temperature is sufficient.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much :thanks:
 
Is the oil the natural decarb is done on cannabis-infused oil or cco?

Grow Goddess said:
Not too much really.

With the buds; I seal dry fresh buds in a jar. It is very important that the buds are dry to eliminate the possibility of mold. It takes 4 to 6 months in sealed storage for the natural decarbing of the buds to take place.

The oil is a bit more complicated. I use dram vials, usually 4 or 8 dram in size. I fill the vial only halfway. It takes 90 to 120 days for the oil to naturally decarb. You can tell by the taste of the oil when it is done. In order for the process to complete properly, the oil must be in a liquid state, not much thicker than honey. Also, I put the dram vials into another jar in the event the top breaks from the pressure build up or leaks. A few times per week I open the vials to release the CO2 that is created during the process. You need to take caution when opening the vials to do this because it can react like a shaken soda can, and fizz right over the top. The fizzing typically does not start until around 90 days and that is when I start "burping" the vials to release the CO2. It may take up to a month after the fizzing begins until is stops. That is when the product is decarbed. Each batch I have done has shown different timing and offered different results. I call this ND Sap. I believe it is the most medicinal oil that can be created from cannabis. The reason why; there is no heat used in the process, to where there is minimal damage and minimal loss to essential terpenes.

For each type of natural decarbing the jars are stored in a cool, dark place, (not a refrigerator). Room temperature is sufficient.
Click to expand...
 
VerdantSpires said:
Lab Rat last participated here 2 months back so he probably won't read this, but his post touches on a query I share: why do we decarb cannabis oil that is destined for use in high doses in cancer treatment?

Am I correct in understanding that for medicinal use THCA is as efficacious as the psychoactive THC? I would really appreciate it if someone could point to an authoratitive source to support or contradict this statement.

Since we know that patients must cautiously titrate up to high doses of the order of 1 gram of that active ingredient per day, and we know that at this dosage the psychoactive THC is just itching to play with the mind, then why not skip the decarboxylation and equip the patient with an equally-potent cancer-killing medication based on THCA that won't play scary mind games?

I'm sure there must be a good reason, but in my reading on the topic it seems to have escaped me. :;):

(Note: where Lab Rat talks of producing the oil by squeezing cannabis seeds, he may be describing extraction of hemp seed oil, or he may be describing juicing high-CBD cannabis buds. In either case, that otherwise-crucial detail happens to be incidental to my specific question.)

I'm new here, but you don't have to be gentle! :blushsmile:
Click to expand...
I was stage 3 throat cancer of which they found a 6 cm, 3cm, and 1.5 cm tumor growing and multiplying at a fast rate. I wish this case was studied because it’s almost unbelievable.
I had to wait two months before treatment would begin so that my mouth and tongue could heal from all the cuts they made looking for the cancer.
So right away we got busy researching and making RSO with OG Kush the Rick Simpson method using ethanol (not decarbing in the oven, only when cooking the oil down in the rice cooker)
As Rick Simpson says you will get very high and sleep a lot.
We did what he said exactly except we used Everclear 190 proof.
For the first two months we had taken no meds from the hospital.
Only RSO.
After two months my tumors stopped multiplying and shrunk by 50%.
Miracle? No! This plant gives us a medicine strong enough to eradicate cancer cells. I am living proof.
I am now just over two years cancer free. Addiction free!
Through 6 platinum chemotherapy’s , 33 radiation treatments and having my mouth cut up and burned I never once had to take any of their oxy, morphine, or fentanyl for pain. The high THC, (decarbed) came through and performed miraculous for me. So this is a case where highly activated THC was what I used and it worked perfectly!
I encourage anyone who has to go through this to give RSO some thought. Personally I think if you Decarb in the oven you should figure out a cold extraction. Otherwise you are essentially decarbing twice. Once in the oven and again in the extraction which to me accordingly to the graph overcooks the oil, therefor degrading the THC rendering it not potent enough to help a cancer patient with pain, nausea, inflammation and appetite.
I hope sharing my experience may help someone else. Cheers for 420 magazine hosting these forums. Thank you!
 
RXOIL said:
I was stage 3 throat cancer of which they found a 6 cm, 3cm, and 1.5 cm tumor growing and multiplying at a fast rate. I wish this case was studied because it’s almost unbelievable.
I had to wait two months before treatment would begin so that my mouth and tongue could heal from all the cuts they made looking for the cancer.
So right away we got busy researching and making RSO with OG Kush the Rick Simpson method using ethanol (not decarbing in the oven, only when cooking the oil down in the rice cooker)
As Rick Simpson says you will get very high and sleep a lot.
We did what he said exactly except we used Everclear 190 proof.
For the first two months we had taken no meds from the hospital.
Only RSO.
After two months my tumors stopped multiplying and shrunk by 50%.
Miracle? No! This plant gives us a medicine strong enough to eradicate cancer cells. I am living proof.
I am now just over two years cancer free. Addiction free!
Through 6 platinum chemotherapy’s , 33 radiation treatments and having my mouth cut up and burned I never once had to take any of their oxy, morphine, or fentanyl for pain. The high THC, (decarbed) came through and performed miraculous for me. So this is a case where highly activated THC was what I used and it worked perfectly!
I encourage anyone who has to go through this to give RSO some thought. Personally I think if you Decarb in the oven you should figure out a cold extraction. Otherwise you are essentially decarbing twice. Once in the oven and again in the extraction which to me accordingly to the graph overcooks the oil, therefor degrading the THC rendering it not potent enough to help a cancer patient with pain, nausea, inflammation and appetite.
I hope sharing my experience may help someone else. Cheers for 420 magazine hosting these forums. Thank you!
Click to expand...
My mother has stage 4 breast cancer and I'm really looking forward to making this oil for her. So I can just do the decarb process in the rice cooker, right?
 
420Greening said:
how about natural decarbing?

Either way, oil or buds will naturally decarb. Heat is only used to speed up the process.

Heat causes just as much damage when heating buds to dry as it does when heating oil to decarb. In each scenario it degrades the product. On the flip side, you get what you want more quickly.

There are many things about cannabis that effect the buzz. Pure THC is usually not the problem, that is a more visual, relaxing, mellow buzz. It is the other compounds in cannabis that alter the effects. The terpenes alone can intensify the buzz, but are also capable of reducing the buzz.

I like naturally decarbed the best, but I don't always have time to wait.
Click to expand...
How do you decarb naturally just let your material hang out with the bag open for a while.
 
Amber Trichomes said:
How do you decarb naturally just let your material hang out with the bag open for a while.
Click to expand...
Hey @Amber Trichomes unfortunately that's an old thread and that member you asked isn't around anymore.
If you have any questions post them here.

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