Thoughts please! No till 10 gallon pots used for cherry tomatoes

[hedzenmedz]

Hi Folks, please note the photo of my no-till 10 gallon smartpots. I grew cherry tomatoes in them all summer and I want to put them back into rotation in the grow room for 3 mother plants. As you can see from the photo there is red clover, alfalfa and oats growing profusely in these pots and next to the soil is a layer of chopped straw. There is a nice layer of fungi on top of the soil. What should I do next to prepare for the transplants?
- cut down the greenery (it grows back)
- re-ammend the soil (with what - historically this soil has performed well until about 3-4 weeks into flower. That is about the point where I struggle with the rest of the grow)
- I also plan on introducing worms from my “urban worm bag” to all of my 10 gallon pots. Does anyone have any tips about doing this. I have been feeding them all along with veggy scraps that have been run through the blender. I suppose that I can continue to do the same with the smart pots

 

[Emilya Green]

you are running a huge huge risk of bringing all sorts of outside pests in to live in the perfect conditions indoors. I learned my lesson years ago... never again, I said.

 

[bobrown14]

No-till you can just dig a hole in the middle and plant your mother. As she grows bigger and builds a canopy the cover crop will die back. Then come back again after the plant is gone.

All your cover crops will get along very nicely with cannabis. They are great companion plants to use as they fix nitrogen from the air and the cannabis plants will use that N in VEG.

Tomatoes are terrible companion crops tho. So don't grow them alongside your cannabis plants. Reason is they attract a lot of pests that actually prefer cannabis over tomatoes.

For your plants that run out of gas in flower in no-till soil what is your soil mix??


Flowering cannabis use a decent amount of Calcium so you can add some food grade gypsum (a few table spoons scratched in and 1/2 cup of Kelp meal and a cup of EWC (worm castings). Add a few worms to each container. They will reside under your straw and eat up the cover crops and other goodies in there.

That should fix your running out of gas short term but no-till you should be fine with minimal inputs between runs and this is why I'm asking about your soil mix.

I run no-till I don't add much of anything the soil gets re-used quite a bit. This mix I'm on now I mixed in 2016 and I grow a lot of cannabis in it over and over water only.

 

[hedzenmedz]

you are running a huge huge risk of bringing all sorts of outside pests in to live in the perfect conditions indoors. I learned my lesson years ago... never again, I said.

Hey Emilya,
Thank you for your feedback regarding pests. That is something that I did not consider enough. What I am going to do is isolate the 3 pots in a spare bedroom (2 floors away from the basement grow room). We have certainly had our battles with pests in the past (fungus gnats, spider mites) and have learned quite a bit for their control. As long as we are consistent with the insect spray (distilled water, a drop or two of dish soap, neem oil), the pests are well controlled. My lesson learned here was to spray with this solution every 4 days no matter if you can see pests or not. That is what we will do with these smart pots until it’s time to transplant. Also, the weather here in northern Ontario has been below freezing for about a week now, so I am expecting that this has curtailed the pest life cycle somewhat. Your thoughts?
Namaste, hedz

 

[Emilya Green]

all good precautions, but never underestimate the pests ability to survive cold weather... after all, they do it every year.

 

[hedzenmedz]

No-till you can just dig a hole in the middle and plant your mother. As she grows bigger and builds a canopy the cover crop will die back. Then come back again after the plant is gone.

All your cover crops will get along very nicely with cannabis. They are great companion plants to use as they fix nitrogen from the air and the cannabis plants will use that N in VEG.

Tomatoes are terrible companion crops tho. So don't grow them alongside your cannabis plants. Reason is they attract a lot of pests that actually prefer cannabis over tomatoes.

For your plants that run out of gas in flower in no-till soil what is your soil mix??


Flowering cannabis use a decent amount of Calcium so you can add some food grade gypsum (a few table spoons scratched in and 1/2 cup of Kelp meal and a cup of EWC (worm castings). Add a few worms to each container. They will reside under your straw and eat up the cover crops and other goodies in there.

That should fix your running out of gas short term but no-till you should be fine with minimal inputs between runs and this is why I'm asking about your soil mix.

I run no-till I don't add much of anything the soil gets re-used quite a bit. This mix I'm on now I mixed in 2016 and I grow a lot of cannabis in it over and over water only.

Thank you for your feedback, Bob
Here is the soil mix that we use

• Pro mix Organic 50%
• Crustacean compost 25%
• EWC 10%
• Lava Rock 5%
• Perlite 10%
• Ammended with glacial rock dust, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, need meal, fishbone meal, insect grass.
• We use mycorrhizae when transplanting seedlings and clones
• This will be the fourth grow with these pots (3 - MJ, 1 Tomato) Cheers, hedz

 

[bobrown14]

all good precautions, but never underestimate the pests ability to survive cold weather... after all, they do it every year.

@Emilya I love that. It's a thing for sure.


@hedzenmedz on your mix it looks pretty good you shouldn't be running out of steam.

You can top dress with 1/2 cup of Kelp Meal and 1 cup of EWC. I do this at every transplant - say a 1/2 cup of that mix per container.

Can just lift your mulch layer and pour some in.

Also try some Malted Barley (beer brewing stuff) and grind it to a fine powder. Watch the goodness happen.

 

[bobrown14]

On your IPM, great to hear.

Winter is usually a good time to grow with less pests for sure.

 

[hedzenmedz]

@Emilya I love that. It's a thing for sure.


@hedzenmedz on your mix it looks pretty good you shouldn't be running out of steam.

You can top dress with 1/2 cup of Kelp Meal and 1 cup of EWC. I do this at every transplant - say a 1/2 cup of that mix per container.

Can just lift your mulch layer and pour some in.

Also try some Malted Barley (beer brewing stuff) and grind it to a fine powder. Watch the goodness happen.

Hi Bob - thank you for your help. The 1/2 cup of top dressing that you mention above, what size of smart pot will that cover? Many thanks
namaste - hedz

 

[bobrown14]

For a top dress can add as much as will cover the soil - 1/2 to 1 cup will do for any size container. I think you mentioned you had 10gal smart pot. Just pour it on and water.

Both the EWC and the kelp meal have everything the plants need so you shouldn't run out of steam down the stretch.

 

[Emilya Green]

For a top dress can add as much as will cover the soil - 1/2 to 1 cup will do for any size container. I think you mentioned you had 10gal smart pot. Just pour it on and water.

Both the EWC and the kelp meal have everything the plants need so you shouldn't run out of steam down the stretch.

wow... what about calcium and potassium and iron, not to mention all the other of the 13 nutrients that need to be in the soil? EWC will have trace amounts of all of that, if they were fed the right stuff, but that disappears very quickly. The main purpose of EWC in a container is to bolster the microlife, not feed the plants. The kelp meal has an NPK rating of 0-0-1.5, hardly enough to keep the grow going all the way. Recommended is no more than 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil, once a month. Be careful of the advice you choose to follow on these online forums.
____________________________________________
The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant (in soil) - STICKY
Emmie's Links, Journals and Tutorials
Berry-D'licious No AACT Organic - Grow Journal
Pineapple Chunk Mega Crop Test - Grow Journal

 

[bobrown14]

We don't feed plants in a no-till style of growing.

We feed the microbes that feed the plant.

Here's a good read on no-till farming to get you in the mood:

Transitioning to a No-Till Garden

You can do your NPK stuff it works for you. In a living soil that replenishes nutrients with stuff like cover crops, worms and compost, all your NPK stuff is in there in spades.

Soil tests spell it all out for ya. Without a soil test, you or me cannot make any valid NPK recommendations for a no-till farmer or any farmer growing in soil.

Top dressing with EWC and Kelp Meal - gives the microbes EVERYTHING the plants need to survive and thrive.

In No-Till we want to maintain our soil so that we can keep using it over and over. You would be surprised how well it does at maintaining proper levels of nutrients in the proper ratios over time. Kelp Meal, EWC and compost are some of the KEY ingredients.

As usual - pay attention to the highlighted words. I didn't make this stuff up.

Kelp Meal:
"Using kelp for plants is not only a good idea because it's a natural fertilizer, thus providing nutrition to the plant, but it also encourages your plants to more effectively draw nutrients from the soil in general. This means that your plants are more efficient growing machines "



Earth Worm Castings (EWC):

"Worm castings are the gardener's secret weapon and nature's most perfect plant food wrapped into one. They're a natural soil supplement and the most potent organic fertilizer in the world.

Worm casts are the manure created by earthworms and have become more and more popular with gardeners and farmers in recent years. They organically provide a number of benefits such as plant growth, soil aeration, moisture retention, natural pest resistance, and protection from disease.

If plants could talk, there's a good chance they'd be shouting for more worm castings!"

 

[Emilya Green]

Well, I will concede that in the large LOS containers, there should still be plenty in there from the original build. This style of growing is intriguing for sure... how many times can you re-run a no-till LOS 15 gallon container before you have to re-amend and re-cook?
____________________________________________
The Proper Way to Water a Potted Plant (in soil) - STICKY
Emmie's Links, Journals and Tutorials
Berry-D'licious No AACT Organic - Grow Journal
Pineapple Chunk Mega Crop Test - Grow Journal

 

[hedzenmedz]

We don't feed plants in a no-till style of growing.

We feed the microbes that feed the plant.

Here's a good read on no-till farming to get you in the mood:

Transitioning to a No-Till Garden

You can do your NPK stuff it works for you. In a living soil that replenishes nutrients with stuff like cover crops, worms and compost, all your NPK stuff is in there in spades.

Soil tests spell it all out for ya. Without a soil test, you or me cannot make any valid NPK recommendations for a no-till farmer or any farmer growing in soil.

Top dressing with EWC and Kelp Meal - gives the microbes EVERYTHING the plants need to survive and thrive.

In No-Till we want to maintain our soil so that we can keep using it over and over. You would be surprised how well it does at maintaining proper levels of nutrients in the proper ratios over time. Kelp Meal, EWC and compost are some of the KEY ingredients.

As usual - pay attention to the highlighted words. I didn't make this stuff up.

Kelp Meal:
"Using kelp for plants is not only a good idea because it's a natural fertilizer, thus providing nutrition to the plant, but it also encourages your plants to more effectively draw nutrients from the soil in general. This means that your plants are more efficient growing machines "



Earth Worm Castings (EWC):

"Worm castings are the gardener's secret weapon and nature's most perfect plant food wrapped into one. They're a natural soil supplement and the most potent organic fertilizer in the world.

Worm casts are the manure created by earthworms and have become more and more popular with gardeners and farmers in recent years. They organically provide a number of benefits such as plant growth, soil aeration, moisture retention, natural pest resistance, and protection from disease.

If plants could talk, there's a good chance they'd be shouting for more worm castings!"

Thanks for the reading material in the link. I’ll be reading with interest when I hit the hay (double entendre). Cheers, hedz

 

[hedzenmedz]

We don't feed plants in a no-till style of growing.

We feed the microbes that feed the plant.

Here's a good read on no-till farming to get you in the mood:

Transitioning to a No-Till Garden

You can do your NPK stuff it works for you. In a living soil that replenishes nutrients with stuff like cover crops, worms and compost, all your NPK stuff is in there in spades.

Soil tests spell it all out for ya. Without a soil test, you or me cannot make any valid NPK recommendations for a no-till farmer or any farmer growing in soil.

Top dressing with EWC and Kelp Meal - gives the microbes EVERYTHING the plants need to survive and thrive.

In No-Till we want to maintain our soil so that we can keep using it over and over. You would be surprised how well it does at maintaining proper levels of nutrients in the proper ratios over time. Kelp Meal, EWC and compost are some of the KEY ingredients.

As usual - pay attention to the highlighted words. I didn't make this stuff up.

Kelp Meal:
"Using kelp for plants is not only a good idea because it's a natural fertilizer, thus providing nutrition to the plant, but it also encourages your plants to more effectively draw nutrients from the soil in general. This means that your plants are more efficient growing machines "



Earth Worm Castings (EWC):

"Worm castings are the gardener's secret weapon and nature's most perfect plant food wrapped into one. They're a natural soil supplement and the most potent organic fertilizer in the world.

Worm casts are the manure created by earthworms and have become more and more popular with gardeners and farmers in recent years. They organically provide a number of benefits such as plant growth, soil aeration, moisture retention, natural pest resistance, and protection from disease.

If plants could talk, there's a good chance they'd be shouting for more worm castings!"

Hey Bobrown - thanks for the link to the permaculture page. Lots of great info there. I subscribed to their newsletter. Also, I picked up a soil test kit (see photo). Do you have any experience with this particular kit or are they all similar. Do you have any tips on how to use it other than

the supplied directions? Thanks much. hedz

 

[bobrown14]

Glad you liked the link. Whole new world out there sorta.. permacuture is how we grow everything really. Try for sustainable living as much as we can.

The soil test kit I get is from the Country Agricultural Extension. Basically full a container with about a cup of you soil mix and send it in or drop it off at the local county extension office. For USA residents. They do all the testing and report back the results.

It's been a thing since the Farm Bill started after the dust bowl in the late 20s and 30s in the states. Our government decided it would be a good thing if we dont have another dust bowl. So they built soil labs in EVERY state university in the country and its basically free to everyone even home gardeners like us.

I'm not familiar with that test kit, looks interesting tho.

 

[Nunyabiz]

I am just starting my 8th grow on my 25 gallon no-till.
They are far better now than they were on my first grow, a good proper no-till gets better with age.
I have hundreds of worms in each pot, cover crop that I trim daily and feed the worms with it, barley straw mixed with green manure as mulch.
A few tablespoons of Kashi up under the mulch to feed the worms and Beetles and start fungus.
I chopped up an organic banana peel today and split between the two pots for the worms.
I sprinkle a handful of Jersey Green Sand , oyster shell flour, and basalt, for grit for the worms, they run all this through their gut and helps break it down quicker.
I sprinkle a handful of Craftblend over each pot every couple of months, again largely to feed the worms.
Twice per grow I add a Sprouted Seed Tea, one from Alfalfa, one from Corn , adds enzymes and the mash that's leftover I feed to the worms.
I just this week picked up some Ferticell Algae which will be great to feed the soil/worms/microbes and plants with.

Also I have some Fermented Plant Juice of Comfrey and Peach to add to my teas.

Little coconut water and aloe vera and Yucca extract which add cytokines, gibberellic acid and carbohydrates, plant growth regulators.

I feed my worms and soil every week, my pots are basically just big digesters, they eat and breathe, they are a complete ecosystem. Pretty much everything the worms eat comes out the other end about 7x more nutrient rich (Unicorn Poop).
The Rove Beetles also add quite a bit to the soil, the Beetles help break down the soil, Kashi, mulch, fungus etc.
They completely take care of all soil borne pest like fungus gnats.
They only live about 20 days and there are 1000s of them in each pot, that's a big turn around of little dead bodies that feed the soil lots of Chitin and Fras.
The cover crop takes atmospheric nitrogen from the air and draws it into the soil and changes it into a plant usable nitrogen.

My pots create a considerable amount of it's own nutrients.
Only gets better with age, you just feed your soil like it's a pet.

 

[bobrown14]

Someone gets it! Awesome job @Nunyabiz

I see you're a BAS fan. Been working with Jeremy for quite a while now since before the BAS days. I just ordered a bucket of the craft blend.

I got a free 65 gal tote with my last order. I think I'll start a big no-till and run it like you..

I've been running 7.5 gal no-till containers without top mulch layer and just add top dress ewc and other goodies whenever I think about it. I get the soil tested anually and it does change but not very much at all the pH has gone up from 5.8pH fresh mix to 7pH the last time I had it tested which is a tad high for my liking. I've not done anything about it.

 

[Nunyabiz]

Someone gets it! Awesome job @Nunyabiz

I see you're a BAS fan. Been working with Jeremy for quite a while now since before the BAS days. I just ordered a bucket of the craft blend.

I got a free 65 gal tote with my last order. I think I'll start a big no-till and run it like you..

I've been running 7.5 gal no-till containers without top mulch layer and just add top dress ewc and other goodies whenever I think about it. I get the soil tested anually and it does change but not very much at all the pH has gone up from 5.8pH fresh mix to 7pH the last time I had it tested which is a tad high for my liking. I've not done anything about it.

Sorta shocked that you use such small pots without even a mulch layer.
Both of those things are pretty critical for no-till.

A 65 gallon no-till pot would be awesome for a single plant outdoor.
Might be a tad funky for indoor because seems like you'd have to put like 3 to 4 plants in same pot to take advantage of your lighting.
Ideally I'd love to have a 4' x 8' fabric bed as a no-till bed if I had that kind of space.

 

[bobrown14]

Main reason for smallish pots is size of plants. I grow some big plants any larger pots and I'd have issues with space/height.

I use the Auto-pot system its what size the pots are. I've tried the 4.5gal size and plants are 1/2 the size.

I'm not a fan of planting more that 1 cannabis plant in the same pot. Outdoors in the ground is fine. 65 gal fabric pot I will use it outdoors next summer.

The mulch layer I have some but I'm not planting cover crops the only difference really. My soil is pretty active microbially and I amend when I put a new plant in the pot.