Test of the Air Bubble Theory - Cloning experiment

[Weaselcracker]

I've always read that, when cloning, I should get the cuttings into water ASAP to prevent an air bubble getting into the stem and messing up the process somehow. So I've generally tried to follow this routine when I clone, but I always wonder if it really matters.
I cut three clones this morning- a Blueberry, a Pineapple Chunk, and a Girl Scouts Cookies cross. I purposely left them lying on a bench with their stem ends exposed for over ten minutes while I was busy doing other stuff. Then I dabbed on a little cloning gel, put them into wet rockwool cubes, and buried them in a tub of moist coco. I have several cuttings already in there from the last week, including duplicates of the ones I cut today. They are all labelled, along with the dates they were cut, so it should be easy to compare rooting times, in a sort of non-scientific way. So I'll let you folks know what happens.

This has become my latest favorite way of cloning since I 'invented' it a few months ago. The coco is wonderful stuff and stays a perfect moisture. All I do is -stick the cubes with cuttings in - about an inch under the surface of the coco, hang a cfl above them, and leave them. No dome, no misting, and no watering, for the duration.

 

[Antics]

Sounds like a good experiment, I've always wondered about that myself.

 

[OttawaGreen]

Thanks for doing this, I always figured air bubbles were a wives tale but look forward to your results...

 

[Weaselcracker]

Cool. We shall see. If they root ok I'll do the test a second time with a bunch of cuttings taken all at the same to be that much more sure of the results. Let you know in a week or so hopefully.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok the three GSC cross cuttings I took on April 24th have roots now. As you can sort of see in the not so great pic

. So that's....11 days I believe. I'll see if the 'air bubble' GSC cross cutting which I took on May 2 roots around May 13 or not. Or more importantly, if it roots at all. I think it will root- but who knows...
I mean- if an air bubble got in the stem, what would it do? Stop water intake? In which case the cutting could wilt- which it hasn't. The roots grow out the sides, so how would this air bubble affect that process?
It seems like it doesn't really make sense calling it an air bubble in the first place, because a plant stem isn't really a tube, it's more like a bundle of tubes. So it would need to be a whole bunch of very tiny air bubbles to make an actual air pocket in the stem- if that's what the issue is. Nitpicking I suppose. To be honest I don't know what the issue is supposed to be- I'm kind of in the dark about it-just that whatever it is, it's bad
I sure love this cloning method I've stumbled upon. I spent a lot of time in the past messing with misting, humidity domes, etc, and always fiddling around trying to keep the rockwool the right moisture. Ok it wasn't that bad. But this is as simple as it gets and I don't have to even be here.

 

[Antics]

I completely agree with your point of view.

Worst case, if an air bubble stops water intake at a certain point, any roots located above the bubble would still be able to feed the plant.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok - update time. All three 'air bubble' clones- well, apparently there were no air bubbles because they all have rooted fine.

I was away for a few days which is the story of my life right now and why I don't have a journal. Last here on the morning of the 11th. Now it's the 15th. Looks like some may have rooted a couple days ago but I don't know exactly when. Anyway- they all rooted, which is the main thing. I also have some other clones cut from an earlier time in the usual method, some of which still haven't rooted-so it looks like the air bubble versions did just as well on average as everything else.
I'll do a bit more work with this thread and try more things when I get time.

 

[Antics]

This makes me also wonder if getting an air bubble is more difficult than previously thought.

Good job on the testing, and thanks for sharing

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks Antics!
I think if I can leave the cuttings laying around for 10 or 15 minutes and it doesn't make a difference with rooting, I won't bother to be picky about things like 'cutting them underwater', or cutting them and tossing them immediately in a cupful of water, or basically rushing through the process as I usually do concerned about the dreaded bubble. I'm pretty sure that there is no 'air bubble' to worry about. I'll try and burst the bubble a little bit more, at least to my own practical satisfaction.

 

[Antics]

I personally think more mistakes can be made when rushing. If the process worked for you, I'm not going to change my cloning procedure at all. Obviously I won't let them sit out of water for days, but I won't be running around either.

Taking a cutting while under water also seems like it'd be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Weaselcracker]

There are people who swear that they root much faster if you cut them underwater. I've done it now and then and haven't noticed a difference but I'll do a side-by-side, of ones that have sat around in the air, and ones that of been cut underwater and see if I can tell a difference. Personally, i'm just happy if the things root within a couple weeks. What more do I need?

 

[Antics]

I'm on the same page bud. I don't grow commercially or on a large scale, everything is for me and family/patients (Nobody currently using my Cannabis smokes strictly on a "recreational" level, everything is to treat medical ailments), so if my clones root in 1-2 weeks I'm perfectly fine with that. It also lets me get a few grows out of each seed, for a $5 jar of rooting hormone.

When I took the cuttings that I cloned for the Strawberry Blue that I just harvested, they were just lollipops, so they were tossed in the pile of leaves I was defoliating. Then I figured I'll try to root them, so I took the 4 biggest cuttings, set them aside,, but still laying on my table, and continued my defol. They sat for 5-10 minutes before they saw water and I had 2 out of 4 root. They were also taken on day 45 of Flower, if I remember correctly.

 

[xtrchessreal]

Another thing that doesn't make sense about the bubble theory is that the stomata are sucking in moisture until the roots are developed. So the leaves are going to live without a root system using nutrients within the leaves to help develop the roots. So how is a bubble going to interfere with that process? And as you said the stem has to be maintained as well. In other words the stem is being fed by the leaves as much as the stem is feeding the leaves. A bubble would not be something that could stop that process as the moisture from the leaves is sent back down the stem and pushing the mystery bubble back out - if it existed at all. I wonder if all this was based on a science experiment on some plant that was much less robust than cannabis and someone wrongfully applied it to cannabis as well. Anyway I like your data.

Did you ever do a larger control/experiment? I think it would be nice to do some at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 minutes and compare the results to those that were immediately dunked into water for processing. That would be definitive I think. It might also give us new info as to just how long you can let them sit without water and still get roots.

Thanks for the info

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey, thanks. Yes I absolutely will do it again when I need to cut more clones. I'm only flowering 8 plants at a time so my demand for clones isn't high but next round I'll do a whole bunch extra and fool around a bit in the name of science.
On a non related experiment- I have a cutting of a branch which I am trying to root upside down. I don't see why it wouldn't root the same way, and actually there is no real point to this experiment but what the hell, it looks weird...

 

[quemedica]

Nice work Weaselcracker!

I just love myth busting experiments. Until I get a PhD in plant biology, which is highly unlikely, I will never forward a theory on anything grow related and absolutely loath those who do so on a whim.

For your next experiment, may I suggest using a syringe and purposefully introduce air into a cutting. That ought to blow the ridiculous bubble located over the shoulders of whoever came up with this myth!

Cheers

 

[JBUptown]

Thanks Weaselcracker,
I never heard about a clone embolism until recently. I wondered how on earth I have managed to take cuttings from several thousand various plants over the decades without knowledge of this sinister cloning problem! Thanks for busting the myth. After I read it in a few places, I figured it was most likely parrot advice. When trying to take a cutting from a succulent, it is important to get it into moisture fairly soon, but mostly because they bleed out and not because of an embolism.

Good Job!


JB

 

[Rockskipper]

Is the bubble the reason that some shave off part off the stem? Wondering minds want to know, lol.

Never tried cloning yet so all info is good.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hi rockskipper. I'm not sure about the reason for scraping the stem like that. I assumed that it was for better interaction with the rooting hormone (gel) which I put on there. There is a member of the forum who is a cloning expert and produces clones for a living. His name is Auggie. I don't think he has a journal but you can catch him on that thread called - 'the mountain- grow support from the over 50 club' he checks in there sometimes. Good guy and knows waaay more than I do about cloning, (obviously).
I hope your greenhouse is doing well up there in the North.

 

[Rockskipper]

A

A couple of days ago. These were the ones I was thinking about cloing.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok, I did another round of clones this evening.

I filled up a fresh tub of coco for the occasion. First off- I rinsed the coco thoroughly, then let it drain for a while before filling the small tub with it. The ppm of the coco runoff tested at a high point of 130. I rinsed it till it was below 30.

I took four cuttings from each of the five different strains/phenos I currently have vegging. Two cuttings of each batch of four went immediately into water, and two were laid out exposed to the air.
Originally I meant to try some variety, and leave some cuttings exposed for ten minutes, some for 30, and maybe some for 60. But somehow it took me over half an hour from start to finish just to take the cuttings and get them organized. The cuttings first taken were exposed for 36 minutes and the last ones- 22 minutes

I figure- what I am trying to achieve here -is to see whether I need to rush through things in fear of air bubbles or not. If I can safely leave cuttings exposed to air for a half hour without air bubbles- that's all I really need to know.

Cuttings were, on average, about 5-6" long - scraped gently at the cut end- dipped in cloning gel and put in rockwool cubes. The cubes were then put into the coco, which should keep them at the proper moisture for long enough to root, if they're going to. Then as before- stuck in the corner of my veg room under a 24 hour cfl.

There were a couple surprise additions to the original 5 varieties.

First was the realization that my Mama Thai clone, which I had axed yesterday, was still laying outside in the bushes. I had a change of heart and went and took two cuttings off her. She had been laying exposed for 20 hours- in rainy humid conditions.
I axed her because her mother, when flowered out, grew a lot of nanners. So I suspected her of hermie traits. However, it could well have been light leaks that caused the nanners.

Next was the discovery of a container of water with a few cuttings in it which I had saved from my flowering White Widow plant, when I trimmed the undergrowth from her two days ago. So I stuck 3 of them in rockwool cubes as well.

I'll keep an eye on them and post the results. I'm not at the grow every day so I don't expect to always be there the day roots show- but I think I'll be around enough to get the general idea of what is happening with the timing.