Take A Sip - Trials Coot Vs Compost

[Pondwater]

Will explain more soon but basics are
2x 480watt bxeb leds 3500k
5gal buckets in buckets with net pots

6in compost 3in coots mix
5 banana skittles
1 cherry moon cake
1 iced vanilla frosting
2 diesel

Sofar I went on holiday and my sitter over fed them when I said spray them on the soil they watered them got scared they did wrong and filled the tube and did same next day ,they were full ,soon as I drained them they exploded growth

The green ones has res roots
The yellows ones have grown but slow and haven’t roots in res yet

Looks like not enough roots so getting light stress easily or ph I balance which I doubt in this soil
Azi I am posting here my pics as I am unable to upload in our chat

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah the yellow ones look over watered. Let them dry a bit and they should catch.

 

[Pondwater]

So the coots mix is growing awsome and the compost seems to not be working as well? However they now finally have roots out the bottom so a repot is kinda past thinking about
Will they correct or can I do anything to help? Wish I did all coots mix now sofar
But it was from overwatering I've never had problems with the compost but it holds water totally different to peat 2 seem to be pushing new growth better than others
Advice?

 

[Azimuth]

Man, that looked like a war zone until I zoomed in and saw you were LST'ing them.

I too grow in compost but you have to understand that is not a common or suggested medium. As you say it has a different relationship with water so you'll have to learn how to work with it specifically and that may take a few rounds to dial it in. Since you have several plants you could treat it as a science experiment and water each according to a different scheme to accelerate your learning curve for next round.

So the coots mix is growing awsome and the compost seems to not be working as well?

Can you detail your two mixes? For Coot's, where did you source your inputs? For the compost version, what is the makeup of the overall mix and proportions of each ingredient?

Will they correct or can I do anything to help? Wish I did all coots mix now sofar

We need more information of what you're working with before suggestions can be made. But my first take is, even though they're growing in SIPs, you still have to water correctly early when they are transitioning their roots. Too much wet too early and they struggle to "catch" which leads to sickly looking plants.

 

[Pondwater]

Man, that looked like a war zone until I zoomed in and saw you were LST'ing them.

I too grow in compost but you have to understand that is not a common or suggested medium. As you say it has a different relationship with water so you'll have to learn how to work with it specifically and that may take a few rounds to dial it in. Since you have several plants you could treat it as a science experiment and water each according to a different scheme to accelerate your learning curve for next round.


Can you detail your two mixes? For Coot's, where did you source your inputs? For the compost version, what is the makeup of the overall mix and proportions of each ingredient?


We need more information of what you're working with before suggestions can be made. But my first take is, even though they're growing in SIPs, you still have to water correctly early when they are transitioning their roots. Too much wet too early and they struggle to "catch" which leads to sickly looking plants.

So my coots mix comes from grasscity same as the build a soil coots mix
My addition is normally I sub neem with alfalfa for breathing risk associated
I also replace crab with fish blood and bone witch helps replace

Base soil mix:

1:1:1: CSPM (Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss) : perlite : worm castings 3.1.2 npk

Amended per cuF with:

1/2 - 1 cup Neem or Alfalfa
1/2 - 1 cup Kelp
1/2 - cup Fish blood bone
1 cup MBP (Malted Barley Powder)
1/2 cup bran

1/2 cup Gypsum (nice sulphur source)
1 cup Limestone powder
4-6 cups Basalt
6-8 cups Biochar If at hand



The organic compost is Tomato Compost UK | Best compost for tomatoes
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The sheep's wool gives natural water retention and also provides a slow release of nitrogen. The high level of potash in the bracken promotes flowering and fruiting. Plus it contains natural micro-nutrients for growing healthy and delicious produce. Benefits of Wool Compost

They say half the watering so I do assume it is the overwatering that happened which after this long I don’t understand why it’s still apparent and visible even if roots are developing ?

I’ve grown somany plants in this compost like so so many veg plants aloe Vera the lot I can’t see how it would be so hot even though that what it’s telling me is the problem lol

It’s killing me ,
Haha yes man how did I do ? I am trying to join the quad club lol but these no growers prove hard lol my coots mix tweaked love it I’m quite proud of them and love the formation it gives
Years I’ve been like fuck I want some low squat full plants how the hell do they do that mine never grow like that haha they were quaded
Il admit I need some training as I get bad snipping all the middles out but shhh and cuttings are hard to apply it to

Symptoms and Solutions for Cannabis Plant Moisture Stress

Growing marijuana plants can go through moisture stress. Learn the most common symptoms and the proper remedy for the core of the problem.

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This lol it’s defo this gives me a right bad comparison eh
Normaly I am in fabric pots using this soil or air pots too not buckets grrr feel like am having a mental break down is there stil hope ?

 

[Azimuth]

I think what you may be looking at is the difference aeration can make. Your Coot's Mix is a full third aeration. Your compost version sounds like it has no aeration so it won't drain as well plus compost can hold a lot of water.

So, I still say you need to let those plants dry out a bit to help them recover. Also switching from fabric pots to plastic buckets changes the aeration factor as well.

So, you're into the experimental zone with your compost mix and you need to play around with it to find something that works. The Coot's Mix is tried and true and you're seeing that in the results.

 

[SmokingWings]

I think what you may be looking at is the difference aeration can make. Your Coot's Mix is a full third aeration. Your compost version sounds like it has no aeration so it won't drain as well plus compost can hold a lot of water.

I have been thinking on this most of the afternoon. And I was always coming up with the lack of Perlite and Peat Moss or suitable substitute. Any decent compost will have a good amount of partially decomposed organic materials so it will hold onto moisture. But for whatever reason the Peat Moss seems to control the way the water soaks into the compost soil plus it helps keep the compost loose and fluffy which also helps with air retention which then helps with water evaporation. Add in the Perlite and limit the problems.

The base mix for all the supersoils seems to have started with 1/3 compost (and maybe some Worm Castings), 1/3 Peat Moss and 1/3 Perlite. All the rest of the kelps, guano and seashells are just extras added to the base mix.

So, you're into the experimental zone with your compost mix and you need to play around with it to find something that works.

Yep.

 

[SmokingWings]

Do you have any photos of the set-up without any soil or compost in the buckets? Or are there photos of the same set-up in one of your other msgs? I am looking for something I can build/use for my Rosemary and other kitchen herbs and my ornamental flowers when they are outside for the summer growing season. I will keep the Cannabis in traditional pots of a soil medium for now and experiment with the herbs and flowers.

...is there stil hope ?

Always hope.

If I have the system you are using figured out here is a suggestion for all those rough looking plants. If you can force each plant to use the water found in the compost instead of any reservoir it will help speed up the compost drying out. Bonus is that the root mass in that bucket will become very large. Once the soil is dry enough put the bucket back and let the plant send the roots back to the water source.

While this is going on you concentrate on the top growth. I would keep track of all signs of any new growth coming from the node along each stem that was tried down. When I see that the plant's top growth is starting to return it means that the root system is alive and well. I would cut back each of those side stems on the rough looking plants so that only one or two nodes with new growth remains on each one. This means a loss of the LST but sometimes HST is needed in order for the gardener to show the plant who really is in charge.

Let this new growth grow up towards the light instead of trying to get it to spread out to the sides for awhile like it does when in the LST Manifold or Mainline style. Won't hurt to add some extra Calcium and Silica to help strengthen and thicken the stems.

it will make for an interesting experiment and pass or fail will help in future growing sessions.

 

[Pondwater]

I have been thinking on this most of the afternoon. And I was always coming up with the lack of Perlite and Peat Moss or suitable substitute. Any decent compost will have a good amount of partially decomposed organic materials so it will hold onto moisture. But for whatever reason the Peat Moss seems to control the way the water soaks into the compost soil plus it helps keep the compost loose and fluffy which also helps with air retention which then helps with water evaporation. Add in the Perlite and limit the problems.

The base mix for all the supersoils seems to have started with 1/3 compost (and maybe some Worm Castings), 1/3 Peat Moss and 1/3 Perlite. All the rest of the kelps, guano and seashells are just extras added to the base mix.


Yep.

I think what you may be looking at is the difference aeration can make. Your Coot's Mix is a full third aeration. Your compost version sounds like it has no aeration so it won't drain as well plus compost can hold a lot of water.

So, I still say you need to let those plants dry out a bit to help them recover. Also switching from fabric pots to plastic buckets changes the aeration factor as well.

So, you're into the experimental zone with your compost mix and you need to play around with it to find something that works. The Coot's Mix is tried and true and you're seeing that in the results.

I forgot to add I added 40% perlite to the compost as per the grow earthbox says to lol, though not helped too much eh

I top fed a few ml today to add Bennie tea and fungi to protect agains root rot too, literally a few ml on the stalk the tops very dry now but I know they have weight still
I have mosquito dunks for the gnats but will wait to add them

 

[Pondwater]

Do you have any photos of the set-up without any soil or compost in the buckets? Or are there photos of the same set-up in one of your other msgs? I am looking for something I can build/use for my Rosemary and other kitchen herbs and my ornamental flowers when they are outside for the summer growing season. I will keep the Cannabis in traditional pots of a soil medium for now and experiment with the herbs and flowers.


Always hope.

If I have the system you are using figured out here is a suggestion for all those rough looking plants. If you can force each plant to use the water found in the compost instead of any reservoir it will help speed up the compost drying out. Bonus is that the root mass in that bucket will become very large. Once the soil is dry enough put the bucket back and let the plant send the roots back to the water source.

While this is going on you concentrate on the top growth. I would keep track of all signs of any new growth coming from the node along each stem that was tried down. When I see that the plant's top growth is starting to return it means that the root system is alive and well. I would cut back each of those side stems on the rough looking plants so that only one or two nodes with new growth remains on each one. This means a loss of the LST but sometimes HST is needed in order for the gardener to show the plant who really is in charge.

Let this new growth grow up towards the light instead of trying to get it to spread out to the sides for awhile like it does when in the LST Manifold or Mainline style. Won't hurt to add some extra Calcium and Silica to help strengthen and thicken the stems.

it will make for an interesting experiment and pass or fail will help in future growing sessions.

Yeah I did just that trimmed all bits off and foilar feeding is a power bypass eh
Did silica and there so bendy they jumped outa supports kinda like rubber lol
I will try shop vac the pot again see what I can pull off em
Thankyou for commmenting glad to see you here
The system is basicly 2 buckets and inside one has net pot in centre and holes on edge

I will change the base bucket for a tray tho so I can add auto valves this week

 

[Azimuth]

I forgot to add I added 40% perlite to the compost as per the grow earthbox says to lol, though not helped too much eh

Oh, OK. That's good and 40% should be a good amount. So, I'm back to thinking you rushed the reservoir phase and the plants haven't converted properly. As @SmokingWings said, let those plants dry out a bit.

Empty the reservoir and let the roots catch up a bit by draining the compost of moisture. Once you start to see better new growth coming in that will mean the roots are repairing and the plant is resetting itself. Only then will the reservoir convert from liability to an asset.

 

[Pondwater]

Oh, OK. That's good and 40% should be a good amount. So, I'm back to thinking you rushed the reservoir phase and the plants haven't converted properly. As @SmokingWings said, let those plants dry out a bit.

Empty the reservoir and let the roots catch up a bit by draining the compost of moisture. Once you start to see better new growth coming in that will mean the roots are repairing and the plant is resetting itself. Only then will the reservoir convert from liability to an asset.

Yeah defo wish I didn’t go to the funeral for 5days now lol realize my sitter had no clue and still doesn’t lol saw me training started hacking leaves off too politely told them to partake in other sports

 

[SmokingWings]

The system is basicly 2 buckets and inside one has net pot in centre and holes on edge

I will change the base bucket for a tray tho so I can add auto valves this week

I am getting an idea of your set-up. If you get a chance to post a photo or two of the inside bucket with the net pot it would help me figure out how to use something similar next summer.

Plus we never know but someone who has been using the SIP method might notice something and willl come up with a great suggestion or tip.

 

[Azimuth]

I am getting an idea of your set-up. If you get a chance to post a photo or two of the inside bucket with the net pot it would help me figure out how to use something similar next summer.

Plus we never know but someone who has been using the SIP method might notice something and willl come up with a great suggestion or tip.

I've got a design post Here if you're looking for ideas. At the bottom of that post is a video on a two bucket system using a net pot as the connector.

 

[Azimuth]

I will change the base bucket for a tray tho so I can add auto valves this week

Make sure you set the upper bucket on something that will hold it up otherwise the weight will collapse the net pot up into the bucket.

Instead, I'd just empty the lower bucket and set it back in place.

 

[SmokingWings]

I've got a design post Here if you're looking for ideas. At the bottom of that post is a video on a two bucket system using a net pot as the connector.

Great, thanks. I have been picking away at that thread reading a couple of msgs here and there with plans to reread the thread in depth looking for the goodies I missed once I pick my way to the end.

 

[Pondwater]

Great, thanks. I have been picking away at that thread reading a couple of msgs here and there with plans to reread the thread in depth looking for the goodies I missed once I pick my way to the end.

Yeah I am basically the same as azi I’ve learnt a lot from him his quad guide is my newest challenge

 

[Pondwater]

Make sure you set the upper bucket on something that will hold it up otherwise the weight will collapse the net pot up into the bucket.

Instead, I'd just empty the lower bucket and set it back in place.

Did think about that hehe glad ya know what I’m waffling about hehe, going to sit them on smaller buckets cut out
I have some old iws system buckets which will fit perfect as a stand for them cut off can’t see it being too heavy really with the weight it should hold well

Setting up my newest system the same killer genetics and will be a coots mix and am thinking to use the compost as a topmulch to keep the peat wet and fed

Dropping worms in on Wednesday they always sort out me problems not only from the cast but from the gentle movement they do to the soil and on a plus worms seem to swarm waterlogged soil not kill em I always find em in the mushiest places and wettest poop in te coops there good indicators of dryness too cause they wil move deeper if dry

 

[Pondwater]

sorry been so long replying, my camera is temperamental and i just fixed the pc


as can be seen the compost pots are bloody ugly they never recovered from over watering the compost is crap for letting water through 1 pot ive not watered in 5 weeks is stil wet wet .
i am focusing on the 4 in the middle,
as you can see 1 has looks like latent hop virus but isnt spreading to other plants and is quite happily growing away more vigor than the others plants

the big boys 1 has slight looks like MG? or iron deficiency? we are day 21 , i am assuming this is ph from the pots begin so dry now they drink a lot if that makes sense? i am watching them and have watered them fully and the base filled ,
they can drink 4litres over 2days each , @Azimuth what do you think do i need to spray some epsom or somthing or just see what happens soon ? ive done the inch ewc ontop like suggested so npk should be fed by that if any missing,
my next option is do a ph test on the soil in a slurry

i just used BTI for the composts fungus gnats my god they are annoying as and put sticky traps allover,

 

[Azimuth]

as can be seen the compost pots are bloody ugly they never recovered from over watering the compost is crap for letting water through 1 pot ive not watered in 5 weeks is stil wet wet .

I use compost as a mulch as well but I fluff it usually a couple of yikes yikes daycand then I mist it to keep it moist. I've had really good luck with it.

ive done the inch ewc ontop like suggested so npk should be fed by that if any missing,

That's going to depend on what the inputs were that went into the castings. They'll have calcium carbonate since that's what covers the castings upon excretion, but whether there's much nutrition in there or not will depend on what the worms were fed.