SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[JBUptown]

Sue,

Nice job thinking outside the box! I've never had any medicine via suppository, but I would stuff it in my ear if it is effective and useful. I'm not sure how you would make them, perhaps glycerin and CCO mixed? I think I'll continue using my other orifices for now, but if really required, bottoms up! This thread is right up my alley ...
OMG you surely didn't expect us to NOT have some smartass comment regarding suppositories right?

Sorry ... I'm back to being a grownup again.


Best of Buds

JB

 

[Canna Montana]

I wonder if it would bond well with coconut oil...

 

[SweetSue]

Sue,

Nice job thinking outside the box! I've never had any medicine via suppository, but I would stuff it in my ear if it is effective and useful. I'm not sure how you would make them, perhaps glycerin and CCO mixed? I think I'll continue using my other orifices for now, but if really required, bottoms up! This thread is right up my alley ...
OMG you surely didn't expect us to NOT have some smartass comment regarding suppositories right?

Sorry ... I'm back to being a grownup again.


Best of Buds

JB

Thank you for that much-needed shot of levity. I'm so glad you're here JB.

 

[SweetSue]

I wonder if it would bond well with coconut oil...

Cajun's cancer protocol thread covers this. It's his post I'll be rewriting for the page on suppositories. I still have a few fine details to nail down, and obviously, I need to make at least a couple for the experience and to be able to test.

Yes indeed, they can be formed with cocoa butter. Alternatively, Cajun just informed us today that they can also be made with other carrier oils and done as 00 capsules. That would more easily fascilitate the addition of some essential oils to add in the terpenes we destroyed in decarb. That part I haven't begun to explore yet. A lot to explore with this study hall.

 

[SweetSue]

This was a pleasant break, but I need to get back to Callanetics body sculpting. Gotta keep growing younger and thinner.

 

[SlowToke]

So where does this leave us? Other than confused? Apparently the studies that would settle this question once and for all haven't been done yet. So I ask you, given that the research field has left this question unanswered, if you had cancer and you knew someone who successfully used suppositories to eliminate cancer from his body, what would you choose as your protocol? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't feel comfortable turning my back on that success. Until we have the types of research that's desperately needed funded, we're still guessing as we go, aren't we?

Sue, I hope you don't mind if I edit your post to get to your final thoughts from what you've discovered so far. Unfortunately it gets more complicated than the scenario you describe, because there are multiple reports of people effectively treating aggressive cancers with various dosing methods and amounts. Just on this forum we know of one member who treated an aggressive prostate cancer by tacking alone, and we also have Cajun who treated colon cancer with liver and lung mets with suppositories. And if that isn't enough, I just attended the Patients Out of Time annual conference on cannabis therapeutics where a case study was presented about a 45 year old woman with stage IV breast cancer who was treated to remission with a daily dose of 150mg THC and 75mg CBD administered sublingually. So now the choice is much more difficult because a number of dosing methods have been shown to be effective in a clinical treatment environment. And this it the best information we have right now, given the lack of true clinical trials involving the treatment of cancer with cannabis.

Additionally, at the cannabis conference, the Aunt Zelda's physician treating the breast cancer patient was asked about the use of suppositories. His response was that suppositories delivered less cannabinoids than when delivered sublingually, and was an inferior dosing method requiring much higher doses to achieve the same therapeutic effect. This sentiment was supported by Manuel Guzman, one of the top cannabis researchers in the world. Guzman agreed with the Physician, stating that lipids were not absorbed very well by the colon, and that blood tests done on patients after rectal dosing confirmed a very low level of THC absorption. I did talk directly to Guzman after the presentation to confirm I heard this all correctly, and he confirmed my understanding of his comments. I wish I had asked for more information about these studies he referred to, but at the time I mainly wanted to confirm that I had heard correctly. Given Guzman's reputation in the cannabis research world it didn't seem necessary.

So getting back to your original question. What I think I'll be doing is adding Aunt Zelda's to my treatment team, to advise me on the use of cannabis as a supplemental treatment to the treatments my oncologist prescribes for me. I'll start with lower amounts of THC/CBD administered sublingually, with monthly blood work feedback ordered by my oncologist. And after a couple of months if this doesn't show a marked improvement, I'll go with a different dosing method and/or increased amount of medication. That seems like the most prudent approach to me until more research is available to better inform cancer treatment protocols.

 

[SweetSue]

As I was reading your opening paragraph I was thinking that the only reasonable approach would be the one you laid out at the end. Start a therapy low and slow and have labs done on a regular basis. So we end up being our own unofficial clinical trials. What a crazy world we live in.

It sounds like a great plan. Growing the strains you've chosen in a medium that should enhance potency is a smart move on your part too. Your putting into place what appears to be your best chance for survival. I applaud you. Look at how much more hope you have now.

I'd really like to see some studies that back up the numbers that get tossed around on bioavailability, and those used to make statements like "not as bioavailable as we all assumed". I believe I may have found reference to the study with suppositories, but it was only two patients. I have a difficult time accepting the results of two patients being used as the foundation for such an inclusive determination.

That leaves trial and error as our best approach. Anyone else uncomfortable with that? Not that it'll stop any of us, but it'd be nice if medical science could catch up. You know, in 20 years, those of us still alive won't believe the progress. Let's hold onto that happy thought and press on.

 

[Dave Groomer]

I wonder if it would bond well with coconut oil...

I make Coconut oil all the time in my MB2. I use it to bake with, but more importantly, my friend takes 1/2t at night and her MS symptoms are kept at bay and she can sleep 8 hours instead of 2 or 3.

 

[CajunCelt]

A few comments...
Lipids (100% CCO & no carrier) are not readily absorbed rectaly, I agree.
But, that's why we convert the polarism thru lipscomal encapsulation. The carrier oil is what is being absorbed, not the lipid properties of the cannabis.
The pharmakonics of absorption rates for non-polar meds is fairly well published/known. Though not cannabis specifically in most cases, the info is still applicable.
Rectal absorption with proper conditions such as moisture & encapsulating with a M/LCFA such as olive oil or coconut oil, is superior to oral ingestion and rivals submucosal.
There are a number of well known cases of success involving suppositories for a number of cancers. Tommy Chong comes to mind.
I feel that practice & practical experience contribute big time in determining methods of dosing. Academic knowledge goes only so far.
Working with dozens, who work with dozens more adds up.
There's alot more info than what's published on PMed & similar.
Spain & Israel alone have been publishing studies for 3 decades.
Most private US studies are not published in the bigger info outlets. Cook's Children's Hospital & MD Anderson in a very illegal state, Texas, have been doing peer reviewed blind tests on alot of these issues. They aren't published in most places online.
Sloan Kettering is another well known institution that has completed some awesome testing on terpenes & gnome mapping.
Ya won't see those on PMed either.

Tim hated studies & online info due to ask the confusion it causes.
I'm more open to it.
That said, I question most bodies of knowledge.
In the summit videos I linked on here, 3 out of 5 of all those involved disagree on LOTS of things from CBD to bioavailability.
I have enough info gathered over the past 4 1/2 years to refute any info I can also introduce. Lol. True story.
My advise on info gathering...
Find the nearest & also the acknowledged best/popular professional organization made up & serving clinicians, caregivers, patients, etc. and barrage them with questions, contacts

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you for those thoughts Cajun. I was explaining to my dentist, an avid anti-cannabis voice in the dark forest, that all of the studies funded in the US were under orders to use language that disparaged the plant and skewered the results towards an anti-cannabis ideal, so most of it is questionable.

Come into today, with the rush to make money from the opening markets, and one always has to stop and ask what financial interest does this party have that might be slanting the information they're offering me? Who do you trust?

I'll look for contacts in support organizations. Good idea.

In the end we're still working by trial and error. I had a doctor once tell me that's why they call it "practicing medicine ". Good sense of humor in that woman. Good doctor too.

Cajun, exactly how does one get hold of these studies being done? Where are they being published?

 

[panacea]

Thank you for those thoughts Cajun. I was explaining to my dentist, an avid anti-cannabis voice in the dark forest, that all of the studies funded in the US were under orders to use language that disparaged the plant and skewered the results towards an anti-cannabis ideal, so most of it is questionable.

Come into today, with the rush to make money from the opening markets, and one always has to stop and ask what financial interest does this party have that might be slanting the information they're offering me? Who do you trust?

I'll look for contacts in support organizations. Good idea.

In the end we're still working by trial and error. I had a doctor once tell me that's why they call it "practicing medicine ". Good sense of humor in that woman. Good doctor too.

Cajun, exactly how does one get hold of these studies being done
I agree with using different methods and strains for consuming and producing oil until there is rock hard evidence to back up these so called professionals "proof". In my opinion the only actual professional out there who has proof to back up there statements is Cajun and his "Team". I followed Cajun's advice when treating a lady back in October who was given a month to live with lung cancer .I started with the demethylating agents along with various strains ( 7 strains), I would give her 10 gram syringes, each syringe would have a different combo of strains for example: first 10 grams I started her with was Canntonic & blue dream strain(something a little mild for starting out and a little CbD since she had a tumour on the lung( mind you she is aking the " BioBomb" while ingesting and tacking the CCO)next 10 grams I would use the strains Critical kush & Northern lights, after that sour kush and CBD critical mass and so on. Now the entire time I would be also gradually making the BiOBomb with different strains and also stronger ( instead of 20-1 I would go 15-1 , 10-1 and even 5-1). She just recently contacted me to say " this is the best I felt in my life". I will say thou she has not gone back to her doctor to verify anything. But going from barley getting off the couch to going for walks with her son.....something definitely is working.

 

[panacea]

Go ahead Sue....Reformat

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you for those thoughts Cajun. I was explaining to my dentist, an avid anti-cannabis voice in the dark forest, that all of the studies funded in the US were under orders to use language that disparaged the plant and skewered the results towards an anti-cannabis ideal, so most of it is questionable.

Come into today, with the rush to make money from the opening markets, and one always has to stop and ask what financial interest does this party have that might be slanting the information they're offering me? Who do you trust?

I'll look for contacts in support organizations. Good idea.

In the end we're still working by trial and error. I had a doctor once tell me that's why they call it "practicing medicine ". Good sense of humor in that woman. Good doctor too.

Cajun, exactly how does one get hold of these studies being done?

I agree with using different methods and strains for consuming and producing oil until there is rock hard evidence to back up these so called professionals "proof". In my opinion the only actual professional out there who has proof to back up there statements is Cajun and his "Team".

I followed Cajun's advice when treating a lady back in October who was given a month to live with lung cancer. I started with the demethylating agents along with various strains ( 7 strains). I would give her 10 gram syringes, each syringe would have a different combo of strains. For example:

- first 10 grams I started her with was Canntonic & blue dream strain(something a little mild for starting out and a little CbD since she had a tumour on the lung( mind you she is aking the " BioBomb" while ingesting and tacking the CCO)

- next 10 grams I would use the strains Critical kush & Northern lights

- after that sour kush and CBD critical mass and so on.

Now the entire time I would be also gradually making the BiOBomb with different strains and also stronger ( instead of 20-1 I would go 15-1 , 10-1 and even 5-1). She just recently contacted me to say " this is the best I felt in my life". I will say thou she has not gone back to her doctor to verify anything. But going from barely getting off the couch to going for walks with her son.....something definitely is working.

Reformatted.

This was incredibly insightful panacea. Thanks for sharing it. I hadn't considered gradually modifying the strain choices throughout the treatment, but that makes perfect sense. Hmmmm...... A whole new rabbit hole.

 

[SweetSue]

This is reposted from my grow journal. I was experimenting with recreational use of CCO using the CannaBudwig protocol. This is a 5:1 ratio carrier oil:CCO. Cajun informs me that 10:1 is a more desirable ratio for medicinal purposes.

Life's a big science experiment.

I'm trying out a Bio Bomb adaptation of the CannaBudwig method. I started out with 1 gm of Concentrated Cannabis Oil (CCO) and 5 grams of olive oil, and combined them by sitting the custard cup into a pot of almost boiling water. They instantly began to mix together

Once that was mixed well I added 3 more Tbs of olive oil and 1 Tbs of liquid sunflower lecithin and mixed that all in.

Into the refrigerator overnight to allow the components to meld together.

In the morning I add 6 Tbs of low fat cottage cheese and attack it with an immersion blender.

Then add some fruit to make smoothies with a wicked kick.

Breakfast Smoothie With A Kick!

The Process

Thirty minutes before ingesting I had 4 oz of mango juice, one 50 mg tablet of apigenin and a tablespoon of coconut oil. This was my first time having the coconut oil, but it's been on my mind lately. There are many health benefits one gains from including coconut oil in your diet and it suddenly occurred to me the other day that this might be part of my answer to the small patches of psoriasis I have showing up and the scalp psoriasis I've been trying to heal for over a decade.

Yesterday I came across the opinion that a small, oily meal, as in something as simple as a spoonful of coconut oil (anybody else hear Cajun say "Ya think?" ) rather than a larger meal high in carbs was more beneficial for creating competitive inhibition. At that point I heard Cajun lay out his protocol, which boldly states to take a tablespoonful of coconut oil 30 minutes before you dose. OK, I think I'll try to demonstrate a little better that I do listen to and heed the advice of my mentors. Maybe actions would speak louder??

I'll be using coconut oil as a regular part of my dosing format from now on.

Look at how nicely the mix stays in suspension. That lecithin is astounding stuff. It's the lecithin that's making the biggest difference here, not only in the dispersment of particulates, but in the quick absorbtion of the medication. It hits within minutes, and hits at a run. Haha! Felt wonderful. This oil turned out to be tasty, with a touch of pepper to it, just on the edge, but enough to make it interesting to the palate and to the mind. Hmmmm..... I'll have to think on that further.

I scooped out a half cup of cottage cheese.

Tossed them together and whipped it all up with the immersion blender. I'll be purchasing a better one later today, provided I can leave the apartment, and at this point, I'm not so sure I want to do that yet. Lol! I wanted a yogurt consistency, and I didn't quite get there with this cumbersome and clumsy tool. I hadn't used this thing before. It's been sitting in a drawer since I brought it home. It goes out with the next pick-up.

I ended up with a cup of the bio bomb/cottage cheese mix. A dose is 200mg so I went with a four way split and decided to make that 250mg. I'm happy with that decision right now. I'm also sitting down on the floor, so the high is somewhat controlled allowing me to complete this post.

I tossed it into the Kitchen Ninja with some Lemon Meringue Pie Greek yogurt, a cup of tropical fruit pieces and some frozen strawberries that've obviously been in my freezer too long, zapped it a few times and cleaned up.

Notice how everything got licked clean? I looked at this picture and licked more out of the Ninja. It was unacceptable to waste the cannabinoids that were in there. Leave nothing behind. I was buzzed before I took my first sip.

Ta Daaa!!!!

I finished it off in 10 minutes (I was answering PMs) at 11:29. Tasty and nutritious, filled with fruit, high quality proteins and psychoactive essential oils. I could get used to this. I'm becoming more ethereal as I go along and you notice, I'm laughing a lot.

 

[Canna Montana]

This is reposted from my grow journal. I was experimenting with recreational use of CCO using the CannaBudwig protocol. This is a 5:1 ratio carrier oil:CCO. Cajun informs me that 10:1 is a more desirable ratio for medicinal purposes.




Breakfast Smoothie With A Kick!

The Process

Thirty minutes before ingesting I had 4 oz of mango juice, one 50 mg tablet of apigenin and a tablespoon of coconut oil. This was my first time having the coconut oil, but it's been on my mind lately. There are many health benefits one gains from including coconut oil in your diet and it suddenly occurred to me the other day that this might be part of my answer to the small patches of psoriasis I have showing up and the scalp psoriasis I've been trying to heal for over a decade.

Yesterday I came across the opinion that a small, oily meal, as in something as simple as a spoonful of coconut oil (anybody else hear Cajun say "Ya think?" ) rather than a larger meal high in carbs was more beneficial for creating competitive inhibition. At that point I heard Cajun lay out his protocol, which boldly states to take a tablespoonful of coconut oil 30 minutes before you dose. OK, I think I'll try to demonstrate a little better that I do listen to and heed the advice of my mentors. Maybe actions would speak louder??

I'll be using coconut oil as a regular part of my dosing format from now on.

Look at how nicely the mix stays in suspension. That lecithin is astounding stuff. It's the lecithin that's making the biggest difference here, not only in the dispersment of particulates, but in the quick absorbtion of the medication. It hits within minutes, and hits at a run. Haha! Felt wonderful. This oil turned out to be tasty, with a touch of pepper to it, just on the edge, but enough to make it interesting to the palate and to the mind. Hmmmm..... I'll have to think on that further.

I scooped out a half cup of cottage cheese.

Tossed them together and whipped it all up with the immersion blender. I'll be purchasing a better one later today, provided I can leave the apartment, and at this point, I'm not so sure I want to do that yet. Lol! I wanted a yogurt consistency, and I didn't quite get there with this cumbersome and clumsy tool. I hadn't used this thing before. It's been sitting in a drawer since I brought it home. It goes out with the next pick-up.

I ended up with a cup of the bio bomb/cottage cheese mix. A dose is 200mg so I went with a four way split and decided to make that 250mg. I'm happy with that decision right now. I'm also sitting down on the floor, so the high is somewhat controlled allowing me to complete this post.

I tossed it into the Kitchen Ninja with some Lemon Meringue Pie Greek yogurt, a cup of tropical fruit pieces and some frozen strawberries that've obviously been in my freezer too long, zapped it a few times and cleaned up.

Notice how everything got licked clean? I looked at this picture and licked more out of the Ninja. It was unacceptable to waste the cannabinoids that were in there. Leave nothing behind. I was buzzed before I took my first sip.

Ta Daaa!!!!

I finished it off in 10 minutes (I was answering PMs) at 11:29. Tasty and nutritious, filled with fruit, high quality proteins and psychoactive essential oils. I could get used to this. I'm becoming more ethereal as I go along and you notice, I'm laughing a lot.

That looks delicious!

 

[panacea]

Great recipe Sue! perfect idea for the fruits in with the cottage cheese mix to altered the taste from blah to Yah..... You just invented the "SUETHIE"

 

[SweetSue]

That looks delicious!

It was Canna. I'm getting ready to treat myself to a smaller dose and see how that goes.

Great recipe Sue! perfect idea for the fruits in with the cottage cheese mix to altered the taste from blah to Yah..... You just invented the "SUETHIE"

Thanks for the laugh panacea. The addition of the lemon Greek yogurt was inspired. I think that made the biggest difference in the taste, but I didn't find it unpalatable before adding all the fruit and yogurt.

Let me go prepare another. I bought myself a Kitchenaid immersion blender that I'm dying to try out.

Edit: I went and tasted it and I stand corrected. Yuk!

 

[SweetSue]

CCO Smoothie (half dose version)

1/8 cup of bio bomb cottage cheese mix
1 container Lemon Meringue Pie Greek yogurt
1 snack-sized container of fruit cocktail
Some chopped up frozen strawberries
1/4 cup or so mango juice (enough to get it to drinking consistency)

Zap it with blender (the immersion blender rocks!!!) and drink.

This is an excellent way to get cannabinoids into the system. It's a meal at the same time.

 

[SweetSue]

With the bio bomb adaptation this hits almost immediately. What I've discovered is that the full dose, approximately 200mg of cannabinoids, was extremely euphoric, a wonderful ride. This half dose of approx 100 mg is enough to make me feel my level of "normal", much akin to the baseline I get from my maintenance brownies, which have approx a 1/2 gram of bud to each piece.

At this point I'm kinda torn as to which method I'd prefer.

 

[Tead]

Study hall?!?!
Oh no no no!
Every new bit I shove in seems to replace something already entrenched. Plus... this process others refer to as learning really just seems mostly painful... at least when the lesson is taught well enough for me to absorb.
Oh no... no learning for the Tead. I'll just follow the pretty plants along in the other places.