Stunted and abnormal growth

[freidog]

Hello!

I'm a somewhat experienced grower (have done about 8 successful indoor grows so far), but I am going crazy with what's happening with my newest grow (after almost 2 years of not growing). I've been able to help other growers here with ideas and tips in the past, so I'm hoping someone in the community could help me here.

Almost all the seedlings I have planted are growing extremely slow and/or completely stunted. Some have strange leaves, curled up sides, and complete anomalies in their structure. And they are all growing VERY SLOW.

Here are a few pictures (these guys are all two weeks old!):

Royal Jack Auto:

Royal Amnesia Haze Auto:

Royal Northern Lights Auto:

Additionally, three other plants which are now almost 4 weeks old are not growing normally (with the exception of 1 which is growing somewhat OK).

This is a Royal Jack Auto at 4 weeks, which seems to be somewhat OK (although I think that's only the 6th or 7th node growing out at the top after 4 weeks and that seems small to me):

Here is a 4 week old Royal Northern Lights Auto with curled and wilting leaves:

Finally, there's this Royal Jack Auto at 4 weeks. Not growing exceptionally well and has stunted branches. Note that I didn't top this plant -- it grew in two main branches like this naturally:

So here some information to the grow:

• 5 different strains are growing.
• Seeds are all from Royal Queen Seeds. They are all 3 years old now, but were stored in a cool dry place. Could this be the problem?
• They germinated in Jiffy's and I transplanted to small pots with Canna Terra Professional when they were about a week old.
• I've maintained a watering cycle of wet/dry, so I don't think I've been over-watering. Run-off is coming from all plants so I think the drainage is good.
• I'm using a pH pen to measure my watering: it's been between 6.0 and 6.5 consistently.
• I only fed pH'ed water with Cannazym to the very young seedlings and fed 50% strength to the 4 week plants.
• Stunting and wilting started already shortly after they sprouted in the Jiffy and *before* they were potted.
• Some of the 4 week plants looked like they recovered, but didn't look great at 2 weeks either.
• Humidity is between 40% and 60% depending on if I humidify.
• Temps are between 23C and 26C depending on the weather.
• Air flow is good, with a constant fan running and exhaust pushing air out.

I'm kind of at wit's end as to what the problem here may be!

Any thoughts and help would be fantastic! Thanks for your help in advance!

Thor

 

[013]

It’s coco not soil, weed plants in coco can’t tolerate the wet dry cycle. They must be fed every day, also your ph is too high. Coco is inert, nothing in there to feed your plants and technically it’s a hydro growing format - looks like soil but that’s where similarities end.... it cannot be allowed to dry out.

Wet / dry cycle is for soil only.... those pots need to be soaked in a larger tub until fully hydrated, then give her top feed at 5.8

please see what other opinions come in

 

[freidog]

It’s coco not soil, weed plants in coco can’t tolerate the wet dry cycle. They must be fed every day.

No, I'm growing it in Canna Terra Professional. I'd used Coco in the past, but not on this grow.

 

[freidog]

No, I'm growing it in Canna Terra Professional. I'd used Coco in the past, but not on this grow.

CANNA Terra Professional | CANNA UK

CANNA Terra Professional is a nitrogen-rich potting mix for plant cultivation. Your plants grow best in a nitrogen-rich potting mix. CANNA Terra Professional potting mix is unlike anything you will find in a garden centre.

www.canna-uk.com

 

[Weaselcracker]

I almost said what O13 said about coco. I’ll have to google that canna terra mix because it sure looks like coco- in which case your ph should be around 5.8 and don’t let it dry.

The odd looking leaves on the small ones though I would chalk up to genetics. Not sure about the rest.

 

[freidog]

I almost said what O13 said about coco. I’ll have to google that canna terra mix because it sure looks like coco- in which case your ph should be around 5.8 and don’t let it dry.

The odd looking leaves on the small ones though I would chalk up to genetics. Not sure about the rest.

Thanks @Weaselcracker. I've grown with Canna Terra successfully a few times already with the same feeding regimen.
When you say you chalk up the odd looking leaves to genetics, do you mean the seeds may be too old and have mutated? I grew seeds from this package two years ago successfully.

 

[013]

ok my bad.... looks like coco. There’s no aeration in that soil, regardless of what they say on the bag label... to me that’s a sterile looking soil-less mix based on appearance. I’m still thinking you should switch to soil-less / hydro ph settings.... mainly because you have been doing 6.5 and wet dry and she still looks like shit. (Please not trying to insult your girls - just stating that it’s not working)

100% coco is soil-less just like 100% peat is soil- less... if you add soil-less peat along with soil-less coco and toss in a few worm castings that’s still pretty much soil-less but drain to waste low tech hydro.

kinda thinking you need to lower to 5.8 ph feed every time to 10% runoff to clear this.

also that long skinny single blade looks like reveg.... but on seedling? WTF? anyway as WC said prob funky genetics.

let’s see what the cracker of weasels has to say - pretty dang skilled grower if I may say so...!!!

im soil grower and this is out of my league but just applying what I see & know, so by all means - please consider other opinions!

nice write up Dog- very detailed & pics too!!

 

[bluter]

have you got a fan going hard on those things ? - part looks like wind damage. you also have a mottled plant mostly looking like a genetic issue. outside guess could include a soil / plant virus but i really doubt it.

 

[freidog]

ok my bad.... looks like coco. There’s no aeration in that soil, regardless of what they put on the bag that’s a sterile looking soil-less mix based on its appearance. I’m still thinking you shoukd switch to soil-less or hydro ph settings.... mainly because you have been doing 6.5 and she still looks like shit. (Please not trying to insult your girls - just stating that it’s not working)

let’s see what the cracker of weasels has to say - pretty dang skilled grower if I may say so...!!!

Thanks @013 According to Canna, the soil shouldn't need nutrients immediately. I just had a look and I'm actually using the Canna Terra Professional Plus soil.
"CANNA Terra Professional Plus is prepared with a pH of 6.2 (+/- 0.2). CANNA Terra Professional Plus is pre-fertilised with readily absorbable fertilisers. This fertilisation facilitates the plant's growth. Apart from that, the grower remains in control of the extent to which the plant is fed." - From their web site.

 

[freidog]

have you got a fan going hard on those things ? - part looks like wind damage. you also have a mottled plant mostly looking like a genetic issue. outside guess could include a soil / plant virus but i really doubt it.

Thanks for the quick reply, @bluter! No, I only have indirect fans moving air. The plants are not getting much wind and the leaves barely move. Could I have genetic issues with 5 different strains?

 

[Weaselcracker]

I looked around and at a quick glance it seems like there’s ‘CT professional’ and ‘CT professional plus’ which appear to be different from each other. I read that maybe only the ‘plus’ version is buffered with lime - but that could be wrong.

Can you post, or search more about what the instructions are for this potting mix re the PH and watering?

I haven't had seeds mutate like that from age. I don’t know of any cause for plants to have frilly leaves like that other than genetics. That is to say- it’s not your fault. But I have seen several grows where people had that same problem and the plants grew out of it as I got older. Though not always.

 

[Weaselcracker]

CANNA Terra Professional Plus is prepared with a pH of 6.2 (+/- 0.2). CANNA Terra Professional Plus is pre-fertilised with readily absorbable fertilisers. This fertilisation facilitates the plant's growth.

Never mind you beat me to it while I was typing. I read the same thing.
Ph adjustment shouldn’t really matter that much if it’s been buffered, but given that it looks like it’s mostly made out of coco, I’d be inclined to drop the PH closer to 5.8, since you’re adjusting anyway.

 

[freidog]

I looked around and at a quick glance it seems like there’s ‘CT professional’ and ‘CT professional plus’ which appear to be different from each other. I read that maybe only the ‘plus’ version is buffered with lime - but that could be wrong.

Can you post, or search more about what the instructions are for this potting mix re the PH and watering?

I haven't had seeds mutate like that from age. I don’t know of any cause for plants to have frilly leaves like that other than genetics. That is to say- it’s not your fault. But I have seen several grows where people had that same problem and the plants grew out of it as I got older. Though not always.

I did just have a look and indeed I have the CT Professional Plus soil. It says it has a buffered run-off. According to the soil/feed instructions, I should target between 5.8 and 6.2, which is also what I had with previous grows. I am currently closer to 6.2 than 5.8, but the run-off I'm getting is consistently at 6.1 - 6.2.

Could this be some sort of mould or other problem like that since the stunting tends to begin before I even re-pot the plant? It seems strange to me that all 5 strains are stunted if it should be genetics?

But thanks for your support -- we'll figure this out!

 

[bluter]

I looked around and at a quick glance it seems like there’s ‘CT professional’ and ‘CT professional plus’ which appear to be different from each other. I read that maybe only the ‘plus’ version is buffered with lime - but that could be wrong.

Can you post, or search more about what the instructions are for this potting mix re the PH and watering?

I haven't had seeds mutate like that from age. I don’t know of any cause for plants to have frilly leaves like that other than genetics. That is to say- it’s not your fault. But I have seen several grows where people had that same problem and the plants grew out of it as I got older. Though not always.

i've had a few like that. most not bad. they did seem to hate the breeze more than others. they were all also heavy indica hybrid plants. never had an issue with a solid sativa. pretty sure it has something do with genetics and leaf structure.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Looking at it more it’s mainly the first one that looks genuinely mutated. Maybe the second one a little bit but that could be other stuff going on.

My best guess would be that most of it’s a combination of PH issues and (possibly) the soil mix being a bit richer than you thought.

 

[Weaselcracker]

am currently closer to 6.2 than 5.8, but the run-off I'm getting is consistently at 6.1 - 6.2.

The lime in the mix will raise the ph in the pot so that’s probably normal. I’d adjust to 5.8 or slightly lower. Not higher.

 

[freidog]

Looking at it more it’s mainly the first one that looks genuinely mutated. Maybe the second one a little bit but that could be other stuff going on.

My best guess would be that most of it’s a combination of PH issues and (possibly) the soil mix being a bit richer than you thought.

What would be your suggestion? The 2 week-olds are very small for they 2 weeks, aren't they? Should I keep feeding and bring the pH down to 5.8? Thanks!

 

[bluter]

Looking at it more it’s mainly the first one that looks genuinely mutated. Maybe the second one a little bit but that could be other stuff going on.

My best guess would be that most of it’s a combination of PH issues and (possibly) the soil mix being a bit richer than you thought.

probably why they work it out with time. an older plant is not so sensitive to over fert situations and the soil has depleted and cooled over time, bringing it in to a level the plant likes.

 

[Weaselcracker]

What would be your suggestion? The 2 week-olds are very small for they 2 weeks, aren't they? Should I keep feeding and bring the pH down to 5.8? Thanks!

.. hmmm. I do not grow autos. I’ve had plenty of two week old seedlings that looked weren’t any bigger than that and didn’t think twice about it. But I know autos are on a stricter timeline. Others here could say better what’s normal for an auto, or have better advice.

Personally I would definitely adjust the pH. I would also go scurrying off to do a bunch more research and check other people’s experiences with that mix and try to find out how rich it is. I don’t think the plants are badly overfed, but perhaps more research will make you want to back off the nutrients a little, especially with the smaller ones.

I find these coco/soil mixes a little confusing- easier to know what to do when it’s one or the other. Definitely check their instructions.

 

[bluter]

autos like it a touch hungry. most don't feed like photos at all. it's also easier to get photos to grow through an issue and work it out over autos. they don't have a clock hanging over them.