SOS Help Wanted: Og's in troubles

D

drofosho

New Member
hey everyone first a little break down of the room

15 plants multi kush strains all clones - purp master,rascal og,tahoe og,fire og,master bubba all are btwn 3 and 4 weeks in veg
light: air cooled 600w Mh
medium: 5 gal. FFOF/Nutes: gh 3 part flora series(lucas formula)
temps: 75-80day 65-70night
Rh: Low
Problem: new center growth of each shoot yellowing and nute question..

so ive checked out the problem solver pictorial and thought the yellowing was from dramatic temp changes(hot/cold) but the last few days ive noticed alot more yellowing of the new growth at the center of each top. i dont know if this is a deficiency or what. they were a little root bound before transplant but at this point im stumped.
I have Gh flora series nutes from my last hydro grow, can i use the lucas formula in soil with positive results? heres a couple pics to give a you a better view of the situation, ive got a lot riding on this and cant afford to f*** it up by impatience and inexperience. Any advice,opinions, comments are very much appreciated.:thanks:

room shot
3-19-11_001.jpg


Tahoe Og
3-19-11_003.jpg

3-19-11_002.jpg

Fire Og
3-19-11_004.jpg

Thanks for looking
 
i always PH the water down to 6.5 but the runoff is reading 6.7??? may be a lockout??
 
another thing too i forgot to mention: about a week ago i had an outbreak of root aphids and fungus gnats in the hydroton rock i had at the base for better drainage. hydro sho suggested GH brand AZAMAX insecticide and miticide. i drenched all 15 of them. would this stuff be my potential problem? from doing the drench does that azamax leech the plants as well as kill the bugs? sorry for the long post:thanks:
 
drofosho said:
another thing too i forgot to mention: about a week ago i had an outbreak of root aphids and fungus gnats in the hydroton rock i had at the base for better drainage. hydro sho suggested GH brand AZAMAX insecticide and miticide. i drenched all 15 of them. would this stuff be my potential problem? from doing the drench does that azamax leech the plants as well as kill the bugs? sorry for the long post:thanks:
Click to expand...

I've never used Azamax. I wouldn't think that would be the cause of your problem. Could be the bugs just did damage to your roots and your plants have to recover from it.
 
So I just flushed 3 of my baby's the runoff this time is reading 5.9... So I'm assuming lockout? I'm gunna flush the rest see if everything points to the ph
 
Hi Dro,

I'm new to indoor growing and ran into some problems also. I found this info somewhere and thought I would pass it along. The troubleshooter is pretty cool but don't really know if it's any better than the info you refer to from this site, which is awesome, and HR knows his stuff. Good luck!

:peacetwo:

:morenutes:

Cannabis Nutrient Disorders

Cannabis nutrient disorders are caused by too much or too little of one or several nutrients being available. These nutrients are made available between a pH range of 5 and 7 and a total dissolved solids (TDS) range of 800 to 3000 PPM. Maintaining these conditions is the key to proper nutrient uptake.
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Nutrients: Over twenty elements are needed for a plant to grow. Carbon, hydrogen and oxygen are absorbed from the air and water. The rest of the elements, called mineral nutrients, are dissolved in the nutrient solution. The primary or macro- nutrients (nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K)) are the elements plants use the most. Calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) are secondary nutrients and used in smaller amounts. Iron (Fe), sulfur (S), manganese (Mn), boron (B), molybdenum (Mo), zinc (Zn) and copper (Cu) are micro-nutrients or trace elements. Trace elements are found in most soils. Rockwool (hydroponic) fertilizers must contain these trace elements, as they do not normally exist in sufficient quantities in rockwool or water. Other elements also play a part in plant growth. Aluminum, chlorine, cobalt, iodine, selenium, silicon, sodium and vanadium are not normally included in nutrient mixes. They are required in very minute amounts that are usually present as impurities in the water supply or mixed along with other nutrients.
*NOTE: The nutrients must be soluble (able to be dissolved in water) and go into solution.
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Macro-nutrients Nitrogen (N) is primary to plant growth. Plants convert nitrogen to make proteins essential to new cell growth. Nitrogen is mainly responsible for leaf and stem growth as well as overall size and vigor. Nitrogen moves easily to active young buds, shoots and leaves and slower to older leaves. Deficiency signs show first in older leaves. They turn a pale yellow and may die. New growth becomes weak and spindly. An abundance of nitrogen will cause soft, weak growth and even delay flower and fruit production if it is allowed to accumulate.
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Phosphorus (P) is necessary for photosynthesis and works as a catalyst for energy transfer within the plant. Phosphorus helps build strong roots and is vital for flower and seed production. Highest levels of phosphorus are used during germination, seedling growth and flowering. Deficiencies will show in older leaves first. Leaves turn deep green on a uniformly smaller, stunted plant. Leaves show brown or purple spots.
NOTE: Phosphorus flocculates when concentrated and combined with calcium.
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Potassium (K) activates the manufacture and movement of sugars and starches, as well as growth by cell division. Potassium increases chlorophyll in foliage and helps regulate stomata openings so plants make better use of light and air. Potassium encourages strong root growth, water uptake and triggers enzymes that fight disease. Potassium is necessary during all stages of growth. It is especially important in the development of fruit. Deficiency signs of potassium are: plants are the tallest and appear healthy. Older leaves mottle and yellow between veins, followed by whole leaves that turn dark yellow and die. Flower and fruit drop are common problems associated with potassium deficiency. Potassium is usually locked out by high salinity.
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Secondary Nutrients Magnesium (Mg) is found as a central atom in the chlorophyll molecule and is essential to the absorption of light energy. Magnesium aids in the utilization of nutrients, neutralizes acids and toxic compounds produced by the plant. Deficiency signs of magnesium are: Older leaves yellow from the center outward, while veins remain green on deficient plants. Leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. Growing tips turn lime green if the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant.
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Calcium (Ca) is fundamental to cell manufacture and growth. Soil gardeners use dolomite lime, which contains calcium and magnesium, to keep the soil sweet or buffered. Rockwool gardeners use calcium to buffer excess nutrients. Calcium moves slowly within the plant and tends to concentrate in roots and older growth. Consequently young growth shows deficiency signs first. Deficient leaf tips, edges and new growth will turn brown and die back. If too much calcium is applied early in life, it will stunt growth as well. It will also flocculate when a concentrated form is combined with potassium.
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Trace Elements Sulphur (S) is a component of plant proteins and plays a role in root growth and chlorophyll supply. Distributed relatively evenly with largest amounts in leaves which affects the flavor and odor in many plants. Sulphur, like calcium, moves little within plant tissue and the first signs of a deficiency are pale young leaves. Growth is slow but leaves tend to get brittle and stay narrower than normal.
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Iron (Fe) is a key catalyst in chlorophyll production and is used in photosynthesis. A lack of iron turns leaves pale yellow or white while the veins remain green. Iron is difficult for plants to absorb and moves slowly within the plant. Always use chelated (immediately available to the plant) iron in nutrient mixes.
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Manganese (Mg) works with plant enzymes to reduce nitrates before producing proteins. A lack of manganese turns young leaves a mottled yellow or brown.
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Zinc (Z) is a catalyst and must be present in minute amounts for plant growth. A lack of zinc results in stunting, yellowing and curling of small leaves. An excess of zinc is uncommon but very toxic and causes wilting or death.
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Copper (C) is a catalyst for several enzymes. A shortage of copper makes new growth wilt and
causes irregular growth. Excesses of copper causes sudden death. Copper is also used as a fungicide and wards off insects and diseases because of this property.
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Boron (B) is necessary for cells to divide and protein formation. It also plays an active role in
pollination and seed production.
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Molybdenum (Mn) helps form proteins and aids the plant's ability to fix nitrogen from the air. A
deficiency causes leaves to turn pale and fringes to appear scorched. Irregular leaf growth may also result.
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These nutrients are mixed together to form a complete plant fertilizer. The mix contains all the
nutrients in the proper ratios to give plants all they need for lush, rapid growth. The fertilizer is
dissolved in water to make a nutrient solution. Water transports these soluble nutrients into contact with the plant roots. In the presence of oxygen and water, the nutrients are absorbed through the root hairs.
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The above text is excerpted from George Van Pattens' excellent book "Gardening: The Rockwool Book".
Key on Nutrient Disorders

To use the Problem-Solver, simply start at #1 below. When you think you've found the problem, read the Nutrients section to learn more about it. Diagnose carefully before
making major changes. 1) a) If the problem affects only the bottom or middle of the plant go to #2.
b) If it affects only the top of the plant or the growing tips, skip to #10. If the problem seems to affect the entire plant equally, skip to #6.
2) a) Leaves are a uniform yellow or light green; leaves die & drop; growth is slow. Leaf margins are not curled-up noticeably. >> Nitrogen (N) deficiency.
b) If not, go to #3.
3) a) Margins of the leaves are turned up, and the tips may be twisted. Leaves are yellowing (and may turn brown), but the veins remain somewhat green. >> Magnesium (Mg) deficiency.
b) If not, go to #4.
4) a) Leaves are browning or yellowing. Yellow, brown, or necrotic (dead) patches, especially around the edges of the leaf, which may be curled. Plant may be too tall. >> Potassium (K) deficiency.
b) If not, keep reading...
5) a) Leaves are dark green or red/purple. Stems and petioles may have purple & red on them. Leaves may turn yellow or curl under. Leaf may drop easily. Growth may be slow and
leaves may be small. >> Phosphorous (P) deficiency.
b) If not, go to #6.
6) a) Tips of leaves are yellow, brown, or dead. Plant otherwise looks healthy & green. Stems may be soft >> Over-fertilization (especially N), over-watering, damaged roots, or
insufficient soil aeration (use more sand or perlite. Occasionally due to not enough N, P, or K.
b) If not, go to #7.
7) a) Leaves are curled under like a ram's horn, and are dark green, gray,
brown, or gold. >> Over-fertilization (too much N).
b) If not, go to #8...
8) a) The plant is wilted, even though the soil is moist. >>Over-fertilization, soggy soil, damaged roots, disease; copper deficiency (very unlikely).
b) If not, go to #9.
9) a) Plants won't flower, even though they get 12 hours of darkness for over 2 weeks. >> The night period is not completely dark. Too much nitrogen. Too much pruning or cloning.
b) If not, go to #10...
10) a) Leaves are yellow or white, but the veins are mostly green. >> Iron (Fe) deficiency.
b) If not, #11.
11) a) Leaves are light green or yellow beginning at the base, while the leaf
margins remain green. Necrotic spots may be between veins. Leaves are not twisted. >> Manganese (Mn) deficiency.
b) If not, #12.
12) a) Leaves are twisted. Otherwise, pretty much like #11. >> Zinc (Zn)
deficiency.
b) If not, #13.
13) a) Leaves twist, then turn brown or die. >> The lights are too close to the plant. Rarely, a Calcium (Ca) or Boron (B) deficiency.
b) If not... You may just have a weak plant.
Solutions to Nutrient Deficiencies

The Nutrients: Nitrogen - Plants need lots of N during vegging, but it's easy to overdo it. Added too much? Flush the soil with plain water. Soluble nitrogen (especially nitrate) is the form that's the most quickly available to the roots, while insoluble N (like urea) first needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil before the roots can absorb it. Avoid excessive ammonium nitrogen, which can interfere with other nutrients. Too much N delays flowering. Plants should be allowed to become N-deficient late in flowering for best flavor.
Magnesium - Mg-deficiency is pretty common since marijuana uses lots of it and many fertilizers don't have enough of it. Mg-deficiency is easily fixed with ¼ teaspoon/gallon of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water) or foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart. When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil for Mg. Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.
Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.
Phosphorous - Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Red petioles and stems are a normal, genetic characteristic for many varieties, plus it can also be a co-symptom of N, K, and Mg-deficiencies, so red stems are not a foolproof sign of P-deficiency. Too much P can lead to iron deficiency.
Iron - Fe is unavailable to plants when the pH of the water or soil is too high. If deficient, lower the pH to about 6.5 (for rockwool, about 5.7), and check that you're not adding too much P, which can lock up Fe. Use iron that's chelated for maximum availability. Read your fertilizer's ingredients - chelated iron might read something like "iron EDTA". To much Fe without adding enough P can cause a P-deficiency.
Manganese - Mn gets locked out when the pH is too high, and when there's too much iron. Use
chelated Mn.
Zinc - Also gets locked out due to high pH. Zn, Fe, and Mn deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH. Don't overdo the micro-nutrients- lower the pH if that's the problem so the
nutrients become available. Foliar feed if the plant looks real bad. Use chelated zinc.
 
got the Ph up to round 6.3. centers are getting worse. new growth is super yellow, brown spots on some leaves, taco curling, and dying leaves. ive been starring at the problem/ pest pictorial the last week trying to diagnose. i finally think i figured it out, theyre all og's and i read on a few forums that Og's r cal mag whores and hence the one thing i havent tried. process of elimination shoulda been easy for most, me not so much lol hopefully they recover in the next week. if not i have to scrap and start over. im gunna throw some pics up when i get new batteries for the camera. as always:thanks:
 
drofosho said:
got the Ph up to round 6.3. centers are getting worse. new growth is super yellow, brown spots on some leaves, taco curling, and dying leaves. ive been starring at the problem/ pest pictorial the last week trying to diagnose. i finally think i figured it out, theyre all og's and i read on a few forums that Og's r cal mag whores and hence the one thing i havent tried. process of elimination shoulda been easy for most, me not so much lol hopefully they recover in the next week. if not i have to scrap and start over. im gunna throw some pics up when i get new batteries for the camera. as always:thanks:
Click to expand...

Cool! Glad you found a solution. Looking forward to the pics.
:goodluck:
 
finally got sum pics taken. everything seems to be recovering somewhat ok. i pulled the worst 3 one was damaged beyond what my patience can handle and i put the other 2 back into the smaller pots and under sum t5's also have the next batch looking good and holding strong. ive been foliar feeding calmag and a lil floura blend to add sum mircos for to help absorption. the soils finally not waterlogged from the flush so im gunna mix up a batch of full strength lucas formula,w/ calmag, and a lil bloombastic. sorry for the lag but here they are looking a lil better.

3-25-11_001.jpg


close ups Tahoe Og
3-25-11_002.jpg

3-25-11_004.jpg


fire Og over 2 foot
3-25-11_003.jpg


shot of the babys and damaged tahoe's
3-25-11_005.jpg

3-25-11_006.jpg

3-25-11_007.jpg
 

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