Soilless pH

Ripples

Ripples

Well-Known Member
I'm using a soilless medium (B Cuzz' 70% peat 30% perlite) I really like this mix, it has worked well for me. With regards to the PH..... Where does this fall in? Not soil, not hydro? I have been running my PH at 6 +/- 0.2
On my 4th grow with no major problems yet! This time around I did have a believe a nute lockout? Potassium Def. I believe caused by too much Cal/Mag added by mistake. Otherwise no issues... Any one else use this or something similar? Last grow was 8 Kronic under 1000 hps indoor. 2 4x4 tents 4 in each... Averaged 5-6 oz per lady...
 
Typically when people say "soilless" they mean like a Hempy Bucket running coco or perlite. Knowing a bit about what you are trying to do would allow us to answer this better. If you are growing a method that works well you will find a sub forum on here where people will tell you exactly how to do that. Knowing as little as we do about your grow... it will be difficult to tell you something and be correct.
 
Hey Ripples.
I'm also using a soilless peat moss medium- sunshine mix. About the same thing as you. Use hydro ph. The 'ideal' ph is 5.8, in theory, but as I'm discovering that -ph of the nute solution tends to rise after mixing, I'm starting to ph at 5.5-5.6, allowing the plants access to a range of essential nutrients. If I adjust to 6.1 or higher I get problems. Above 5.8 leaves a couple nutrients inaccessible, and as I've been discovering,to make matters worse the ph quickly rises over the next few days. This may depend on what nutrients you're using, of course.

On the latest page of my journal I've been talking about this. (Not pimping my journal, it's just a discussion I've been having a lot lately)

Check this chart and you'll see how tricky it is to cover the correct range.


image35163.jpg
 
I'm not going into the soil, soilless or inert growing medium / hydro ph debate right now, i just think it could be a rather long winded subject at present !

When method has just done fine for growing so far...

Well plants are not created equal as some are heavy feeders whilst others are light feeders, hence some problems may occur... i'm pretty sure most use a rule of a thumb guide line for nutrient dosage, it doe's not always work out !


Watch 'n' learn, adjust & adapt to the girls grown.

Now K - potassium def is more likely to occur in early to mid flowering... ye ya not mentioned stage of growth yet ?


At a hunch, i'll guess flowering... & may need a P/K boost nutrient to sort it out but then again it could be feeding regime currently used ?


Just areas to cover to work this one out :thumb:
 
Fuzzy, I didn't know there was a debate around whether or not to use hydro ph for soilless. In my experience hydro ph is absolutely the range to use. I know this because I mistakenly used soil ph for ages, using the same basic medium as Ripples, and my plants suffered for it. There's no question in my mind that once I switched to a lower range the plants were much much happier.
Re the nutrient levels- yeah that's very subjective to the plants. I've had plants of K deficiencies from underfeeding, and plenty of nute burn from overfeeding. It can be a tricky balance.
 
Yeah I don't think there is much debating anything in growing plants. People have been farming for centuries. Nothing is unknown.

That is why there are forums for everything that works well. If you are new to the game you should be using a standard method. I would not recommend to anyone who is new to try and out think centuries of science and farming.

That's why I recommended maybe some more clarity. Soil-less means a lot of things.

For example if you put RDWC into google or youtube you will have a very hard time finding an RDWC setup. Mostly what you find are not RDWC...but that is what the poster is calling it.

So when people start to ask about a specific type of growing style and they use a very broad term that can mean a lot of different things it is very important to verify which one because it changes the answer.
 
I am an idiot I sometimes read too fast.

And it isn't about how tough the question is. Many time I say stuff to try and get them to think about what they are asking. I am not here handing out fish. I am trying to teach people to fish.

This section of the forum is not where people who know what they are talking about come to post questions. It is a daily thing that people are asking the wrong questions here.
 
Hey guys! Soilless is just a fancy way of describing medium-based hydroponic set ups that aren't quite the "standard" hydro. In my growing world, if someone says "soilless" it begs the question: "What kind of medium are you using?" because there are many different styles of hydroponics in general - let alone soilless hydroponics. I generally think of coco or coco/perlite when I think of soilless growing though.

So basically Ripples, I would say your pH will depend alot on what kind of nutrients (hydro or organic) your using and a little on if you want to be using inoculations or enzymes.

The more organic you make it, and the more microbes and other beneficials you use, the more you will want to bump the pH up because the microbial life that feeds organic plants doesn't perform very well (and might actually start to die off) below a pH of about 6.1

So your straight hydro-soilless set up will perform best at around 5.8, but an organic and inoculated set up (even if it's technically soilless) is going to run at it's best when the pH is around 6.5
 
Thats what I'm sayinzalll...

I hate to give a bogus answer because I don't understand the exact question. I really hate giving vague ones like "well all hydro is like this..." when even that is not true.

That's why I try to point people to other areas where the smart people are hanging.
 
VilliageIdiot said:
That's why I try to point people to other areas where the smart people are hanging.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure I've scared most of the smart people away from here by now.
Thanks Iwltfum :thumb:


It's always the same- the more you learn the less you know and even the few things that seem to have simple answers always get more complex when we dig a little.
In my case anyway- using the hydro range has been great, and was definitely a wonderful discovery when I figured it out. Hence my glowing endorsement of it for Ripples. When I first started with the sunshine mix, a very experienced grower I was working with told me to use the 6.5-7 range. It took a long time for me to straighten that mistake out.
 
Well all of you have good advice... I'm very familiar with Weasel, Fuzzy and Iwltfum not so much VI but i see your post and comments all over lately. Nice to meet you... Let me be more specific (try)... The medium is like weasel mentioned Peat/Perl... To be honest I never could quite figure out whether that was soilless or not? I am rather new to growing (my 4th grow) but I have done my homework, read plenty and listened to those on this site... Set up is as such... I have the soilless in 5 gallon buckets with good drainage... Indoor 4x4x7 tents with passive intake. 8" intake with Phresh filter as well as a air cooled hood with 1000 hps for flower... My nutes are FF... I have 2 set ups identical... I started with feminized Chronic seed and have a mother. my temps run 72-75 lights on 64-66 off. RH now is 45-50. Starting 6th week of flower... My first grow I was anal about everything as most noobie are and finished well... I think somewhere in the 2-3oz per plant which I thought was great for my first grow! Much of the same for the 2nd grow but a little better 3-4oz per... 3rd grow I started playing, lollypopping and adding more than the basic FF 3 (Big Bloom, Grow Big, Tiger Bloom)... Had the best yet with 5-6oz per... Now the 4th grow I added a few other strains. Lime Green (LG), Super Skunk (SS) and my basic Chronic... As normal I grow 8 ladies at a time... My 2 SS look good, My 2 LG are looking GREAT! but my Chronic not so good. I believe i had a lock out because of a mistake with Cal/Mag (too much)... Trying to dial in my growing method and the "Soilless" question is always in my head! I run the PH at 6 but I'm not sure if thats correct? It has worked well for me (I think my yield is good? I'm guessing) but I'm trying to improve... To be honest Im backing off a bit. Currently have 4 nice mothers Chronic, LG, SS and Cheez. Have yet to grow the Cheez. (next time)... I think caring for 2 tents in flower and 4 mothers is difficult for me... Trying to get better without killing myself! It's plenty of work to get it right. I have some pics in my Gallery (not sure if you can go there?) will post if your interested? Looking for some advice and opinions... Thanks for the help guys/gals? Wish I could return the favor...
 
I haven't done this type of soilless but I am sure someone reading this has so I am gonna bow out.

You haven't seen me around as #1 I used to hang out in the hydro area...but that dried up so I found the FAQ's are where the postings are these days. DWC used to be 10 posts a day which was fun. Now it is like 3 a month. Which is also why I try to get people to post specific questions related to something there is a forum on in that forum. The FAQ is overrun I think. And #2 I wasn't on here for like 6 months...just got way busy. Now they are letting me work from home so I can monitor here while I work.

I did read through your very nice detailed post and it looks like you got this all worked out. I think your question is " I have a handful of plants working great and 1 I ran the same way and it sux"

Well likely the issue is in the root zone. So just basic root treatments are a good place to start if you have your pH in a decent zone which it sounds like you do.

You could have an infection or rotting in there. So I wont go on about making your own because you have an immediate situation to deal with. What I would do is a double punch of an enzyme treatment and a beneficial bacteria. I like Hygrozyme and voodoo juice for just off the shelf stuff. The Hygrozym does lots but one of the cool things is it takes dead rotting material and roots and converts them back into plant foods by breaking them down. The bennies also do a lot but but one thing people fail to realize is the most important thing they do...is take up space. Everywhere beneficial bacteria are growing detrimental bacteria are not.

If money aint an issue I would recommend adding some Glomus fungus (I use White Widow). The fungus has a symbitotic relationship with the roots and aids in both nute uptake but also it is kind of like a fat cell and stores nutes. Later on when they become unavailable they get released out of the fungi. So it is like slow release nutes and also therefore helps with over dosing. If you are willing to do the fungus let me know as there is a trick to it.


:goodluck:
 
Ripples said:
Well all of you have good advice... I'm very familiar with Weasel, Fuzzy and Iwltfum not so much VI but i see your post and comments all over lately. Nice to meet you... Let me be more specific (try)... The medium is like weasel mentioned Peat/Perl... To be honest I never could quite figure out whether that was soilless or not? .... Trying to dial in my growing method and the "Soilless" question is always in my head! I run the PH at 6 but I'm not sure if thats correct? It has worked well for me (I think my yield is good? I'm guessing) but I'm trying to improve... To be honest Im backing off a bit. ...
Click to expand...

Yes. What you are using is soilless.
As for the ph, as I mentioned, hydro ph has worked well for me in peat moss/perlite and is what you'll generally hear as reccomended for soilless, though people often make the mistake of thinking the mix is soil.
If your plants are doing well at around 6 then no need to fix what isn't broken, but keep your eyes open to what happens when you go high or low. Over time you'll notice whether or not you have issues when you push the ph range. Myself, I don't have much success going higher than 6, but part of that probably relates to the fact that my nute solution ph has a habit of creeping upwards over time.
Something worth trying sometime is- save some of your nute solution after mixing up a batch. Put it on the shelf and test what the ph does over the next week or so. This may not tell you exactly what's going on in your medium, but it still might be helpful to know what you're dealing with in terms of nutrient ph creep.
 

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