Socket Fail and Bulb with Pics

[xtrchessreal]

My 1000W HPS bulb burned out while arcing and melting the bottom of the bulb seal and melted the socket insert of the 5kV 600VAC 2000W pulse rated E 39 ceramic lamp holder as it was hanging horizontal. Luckily it burned to an open circuit and stopped the current at that point. The ceramic also cracked at multiple places, when I took it apart a couple pieces fell off and the HOT lead was burned open and completely disconnected from the socket. You can see inside the bulb through two completely opened holes at the male end of the bulb.

To me it is clear the bulb went into catastrophic failure, end of life I guess. But is this what is supposed to happen at end of life of 1000w HPS? I estimate near 5000 hours a bit over a year at 12/12 of actual life this bulb got though it was rated at 20,000 I think. Not a digital ballast either FYI.

Any similar experiences from HPS users would be nice to hear thanks

I've done research and found that one possible solution was due to an over-arc - but I need more research to determine what that means in terms of physical science and the events that led to it - it is supposed to be rare.

Also, I received my new sockets but they are not pulse rated properly. I was sold LH200 which is pulse rated properly but they sent me Leviton 8756 which is pulse rated at 4kV which according to both Leviton, a base mfr, and Osram, a bulb mfr, data specs for a 1000w HPS needs 5kV. If you need replacement sockets for a 1000w bulb look for Leviton 8746 which is pulse rated for 5kV 600VAC 1500w. I called the place I purchase from and they agreed their information was wrong on the site and refunded my money and I do not need to send these back. I do have several 400w MH magnetic lamps so extra supplies and a refund is cool.

I don't know if you can make it out but the socket was pulse rated for 5kV 600VAC and 2000W. There appears to be some red-ish sealant material melted in the socket, the socket is cracked - I assume from the pressure and heat created during the failure. You can also see where I clipped the neutral wire but the black was burned to an open circuit. The Bottom of the bulb is malformed and the same red-ish sealant material is on it. You can see light through the hole in the base and yet the alumina ceramic arc tube is intact and no signs of a sodium leak.

Anyone know what the electrical rating is of the Hydrofarm CSPOM6KV? After my last purchase I want to know the ratings. There are a bunch of sockets being sold without the full ratings listed. Someone is going to get killed via fire and no one will be blamed or found guilty. And, marijuana haters will use it as another reason it is a dangerous drug.

 

[BuddroGreen]

Whoa...glad you're OK.

 

[Stealthboat]

I can't help you at all but I did want to thank you for posting these pictures and info. Now if something similar happens to me I have an idea what is going on

 

[xtrchessreal]

Thanks for looking.

I'm still researching but one thing is for sure some of the socket claims are ridiculous. Hydrofarm simply tries to assure you the socket is rated for 1000w. You know Hydrofarm isn't the manufacturer, right? QSSI has a catalog with a CPLH20 that says it is rated right 5kV etc. BUT the picture of the socket labeled CPLH20 you can read the ratings in the picture and its says 4kV Starting Pulse Rated right on the socket, similar to my pics above. So, is that a misprint in the catalog or a picture placed with the wrong caption? Ebay has hundreds of sockets with ratings claimed in the listing but if you look at the picture it is clearly misrepresented. Some don't give a manufacturer but claim its good for 1000w HPS. I can't find a GE, Osram, or Westinghouse catalog to find model numbers. Leviton, so far, is the only mfr that has a catalog with no misprints and provides all electrical data you could possibly want. So are we supposed to believe what the guy at the local grow store says...HELL NO! I want to see the socket so I can read the ratings on the socket.

The terminology is hard to follow too but FYI these sockets are called Position Oriented Mogul (POM) or just Mogul Lampholders but for our purposes it needs to be the E39 (which is the size for MH or HPS). There are Lampholders at E40, E45, and other shapes and sizes that are called Mogul so, you can't rely on Mogul for the right size. The E in E39 is a size Thomas Edison gave when he was inventing sizes of incandescent bulbs back when sizes were the only thing you needed to know. The reason POM sockets are called POM is because MH and HPS bulbs have many different uses and some must be in a specific position. Some must be hanging vertically, some are to be up-right vertically, and some are what is called U for universal meaning any position including horizontal. It is the bulb that determines this not the socket. It is MH that has these restrictions, HPS can burn in any position it will not affect the material in the arc tube but as I said some MH bulbs have restrictions in their arc tube performance.

Anyway I clearly have Socket Brain so I'm cuttin' myself off

 

[c526]

like was said thanks for posting these pictures

I have zero solutions for you as Ive never had anything like that,and i used the 1k up until about 5 years when i dropped to 600

please keep posting your findings,it could be YOU that saves someones life

 

[Weaselcracker]

This is very interesting. I had the same experience about three weeks ago. 600 HPS digital with the bulb by the same manufacturer to match the ballast. It looked just like yours. The bulb was nearly fallen to the floor -just dangling in the remains of the socket. At the time I didn't put as much thought into it as you have, but you've got me thinking. It wasn't a pretty sight to come home to...

 

[kiwibloke]

I'm about as clued up to what' watt with electrical stuff as I am to the finer points of nuclear submarines, but this certainly looked as though it was VERY SCARY !! Didn't you blow a fuse ?? I'm not sure what you mean by "it burned back to an open circuit and stopped the current at that point." Did the actual wiring melt all the way back to . . . . where ??

You've been fucken lucky here I'd hazard a guess looking at the damage. It's what freaks me out - the thought of a fire when you're not there. . . . A fire when you ARE there runs a very close second. My mate and I have always bought ready made light/holder/ballast/leads/bulbs ready to go and if anything apart from a bulb goes we replace the whole set up. I never fancied pulling things apart and hoping I got the right stuff from the electrical spare parts shop. As someone said up above. . . .how many of them and howmuch does your average grow shop staffy really know about what works safely with what?? Not many and not a lot is how I think and act accordingly.

Good to see you are safe. . . . Ya might not get hurt but that could've brought a world of hurt down on ya if the fire dept had of turned up.

Cheers.

 

[xtrchessreal]

I did not blow a fuse or the breaker for the circuit which is very strange. The magnetic ballast is on a 1850 w fused cord and there is a 15 amp breaker. This is why I believe it was a bulb malfunction that started it anyway. Some kind of issue cascaded into another, possibly heat buildup or an over-arc began which heated it up and eventually melted the bulb base material, it poured out and caused a high resistance short inside the socket metal insert and then some how continued the current until the hot wire mounted on the back of the socket got so hot it burned open. You can see the black burned hot connection compared to the neutral.

FYI an open circuit has voltage but no current - like the wall receptacles in your house. Its an open circuit until you plug something into it and then turn it on like a night light. Its why you don't allow your baby to play around the wall receptacles, as soon as they put their fingers in the slots the fingers complete or close the circuit and that is when current begins to flow and that is what you feel if you have ever done that, even accidentally. A current of 1 amp is enough to kill you. When electrical fires start it is usually because the closed circuit is still providing the current until wires heat up like burner elements on a stove and catch the device on fire. Hence all the electrical code in law for building houses etc. If a circuit breaker is too large and some kind of appliance or device draws more current than the wires in the wall are rated for it will heat the wires until they melt open and hopefully nothing catches fire.

In my case the breaker is sized correctly and the fused cord is sized correctly the device has all the appropriate components and has properly sized wiring inside the device and wires leading to the socket, and the socket was rated properly for the bulb. This makes the Bulb the most likely culprit and some kind of rare failure happened or the bulb was poorly manufactured. But then you start getting into quality controls at bulb mfr facilities. I have experience in electrical device manufacturing and know that even with the highest quality controls in the 99.99% and still get a random device malfunction. This is why you hear about people burning bulbs out early all the time, there are millions of people growing weed so one in a thousand have a problem or one thousand in a million at best. Quality controls are not that high its probably more like 95% or 98% when you produce millions of bulbs a week. Talk to the guys that replace street lighting. In that industry you buy bulk at very cheap prices. I have at least 5 street lamps that are cycling at "end of life" that I walk my dog by every night, just as I get close to the post the light goes out or it turns on.

The "Hot" wire connected to the socket is wrapped in a glass fiber so that it can't catch fire beyond where the wire is exposed, the last .25 inch or so, where it is connected to the socket. This part of the wire melted to an open circuit right up to the glass fiber per specification. I checked the ballast thoroughly there are no defects. The current had to be at normal levels during the BULB Failure event or fuses and breakers would have blown or tripped. The ballast is CWA type, meaning Constant Wattage Autotransformer, that means it provides the same wattage output to the lamp +/- 10% of the rated input voltage 120VAC. So, if the voltage dips it provides more current or if the voltage rises it provides less current but the wattage to the lamp stays the same during either event. A magnetic ballast does this naturally.

All the safety features did their job.

I still can't find information on the so called over arc condition, which I read about in some HID replacement manual I believe. They mention it as a rare condition that can happen. I can't find information on what causes that over arc. I also read a lot about ignitors and based on what I am reading if it was the ignitor my new bulb would not start which I did as a test to be sure. I have an o-scope but no high voltage adapters to test the ignitor characteristics properly, never use a voltage meter on an ignitor, if it pulses it will fry your meter. BTW I am a BSEE and build tubes amps and stuff as a hobby so I am familiar with High Voltage Electricity and fixing things to design specifications but thanks for safe suggestions and concerns.

I ordered, for the second time, replacement sockets and if they are as specified as purchased I will let you know where you can get some sockets for cheap - I will follow up on that for you DIY'rs out there. To me its odd that you can't even trust a an electrical supply store to send you the right parts like what happened for my first purchase of these replacements.

 

[c526]

To me its odd that you can't even trust a an electrical supply store to send you the right parts

if a legal grow burned down,could this be traced back to the parts house??

you got me checking all of my components,unless the bulb burned out,I take it all for granted.

 

[xtrchessreal]

I am no lawyer but I believe that as long as everything was rated properly an insurance company should cover the damages by a fire. If I was an insurance company I would definitely be reading the report from the firehouse as to the cause especially in a house or warehouse that was growing weed legally.

That being said if your lighting systems and equipment have a UL (under writers listing) or are stamped and labeled with appropriate electrical certification marks such as CE, CSA, ETL, etc here is a link scroll down for similar organizations: UL (safety organization) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should be fine with these marks on them. As I said before I believe this issue was a random Bulb Malfunction. If you purchased the light system as a whole in one package then you shouldn't worry.

My trouble has been with finding replacement parts from supposed reputable electronics supply houses.

 

[xtrchessreal]

I found a supplier I can trust with free shipping.
This is a QSSI made in USA Cat.#CPLH20GK "5kV Pulse Rated 600VAC 1500W" E39 Socket.
This rating is what you need for a 1000W HPS. Note the UL listing, I provided some other Certifications you can trust if your equipment has these labels. I bought 10 for $50, $5ea,best deal, some are selling for $28 with shipping for one socket.

This socket comes with brass mounting nut built into the ceramic that takes an #8/32 mounting screw. What is great about that is that you don't have to worry about cracking or breaking your socket as you tighten the screw while mounting. It also comes with a fiberglass insulating gasket for the mounting base to insulate your metal wiring enclosure from any chance of the wires touching the metal. When mounting these you only need to be snug, do not over tighten or it will break - its ceramic.

Btw I found a IEC Document for High Pressure Sodium Lamp Standards IEC 60662 in PDF. The document explains wattage, volts, amps, starting pulse minimums and maximums for each different watt or shape and base type of HPS. For instance for a 1000w it specifies a min start pulse of 3000 volts with a min pulse width of 4 micro secs. averaging 2700 volts and a max of 5000 volts. Hence the need for a 5kV socket for a 1000w HPS. The specs mean that any ignitor that says it is for a 1000w HPS will have these same min/max or it will not pass IEC standards and will not get its certification. So, I don't need to know how an ignitor works or how its internal components are designed nor the schematic. If it says its for HPS 1000w and has the proper cert. marking I'm good.

 

[c526]

glad you found what you were searching for,and a most excellent price

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey. Thanks for looking in to this. I'm going to dig the remains of my socket and bulb out of the garbage and take a second look at them though I don't have your knowledge. I was none too happy to see my bulb burned up - however, it seemed like about the safest electrical thing that could have heated up because of its location hanging in the air underneath a reflector with a fair amount of space around it. I bought some heat resistant backing board from the hardware store -the sort of thing that you would put behind a wood stove. Mounted my timers and ballasts on that against the wall and as well put a strip of that board on the ceiling above, and that gives me a little peace of mind

 

[xtrchessreal]

Hey. Thanks for looking in to this. I'm going to dig the remains of my socket and bulb out of the garbage and take a second look at them though I don't have your knowledge. I was none too happy to see my bulb burned up - however, it seemed like about the safest electrical thing that could have heated up because of its location hanging in the air underneath a reflector with a fair amount of space around it. I bought some heat resistant backing board from the hardware store -the sort of thing that you would put behind a wood stove. Mounted my timers and ballasts on that against the wall and as well put a strip of that board on the ceiling above, and that gives me a little peace of mind

Sharing the knowledge and finding knowledge is what its all about. Using that heat resistant backer board is a good thing to do since you have all the electrical connections mounted there and yes the strip above thing is a good safe idea in case of heat build up. If there were a fire from your electrical equipment it would likely burn out before it had a chance to ignite close combustibles.

I wish I had done something on the rafter boards of the basement ceiling. I did build my room inside another room so that no parts of the house structure touches the grow room. I did that to eliminate fan noises and a work permit requirement. Its basically a floating room, looking back a fire retardant material would have been nice to add. I would have to tear my grow room down just to do it. After this experience though I do feel better about the wiring. Even though there was some electrical failure in the bulb the damage stopped at the wires behind the socket, that glass fiber insulation around the wire works.