Should we unlink dispensaries from growers?

[BigHeadTodd]

Here's something that I have been thinking about for some time and now I want to put it out for discussion. In Massachusetts every company that is allowed to operate one or more dispensaries must grow their own products. I am not exactly sure why the law was written this way. I seems to me that any medical marijuana patient would be better served if growers (producers) were independent of dispensaries and here's why. I believe that there would be a larger choice of varieties and products available to patients if growers were competing for sales at dispensaries. I also believe that product quality would be at its absolute best if the marketplace for growers was independent from dispensaries because each grower would know he/she had to present the very best flowers to succeed. If the buds are crappy no dispensary would ever buy them from a grower. I'm sure the dispensaries in Massachusetts will produce and sell high quality flowers but I think open competition would elevate the quality to its highest levels. Prices would be kept down if there was competition. All I am seeing is better quality of product, better varietal choices and better prices for the medical marijuana patient if we unlinked the current required connection between grows and the dispensaries.

I suppose medical marijuana dispensaries can argue that when they produce it themselves they are assured of a constant stream of product. I am sure that they can also rightly claim that being in control of a plant from seed to sale means that they are in total control of the growing and handling conditions. And I suppose they can claim that since it is cheaper to produce product than to purchase it from an outside source, those savings are passed along to the mm patient.

I still say unleash the power of independent growers and we will all benefit with the best medicine on the market. Where do you all come in on this issue? Have you been thinking about it? What do you think is fair? And what do you think will happen in the future?

 

[Richard Richardson]

I agree that they should be independent

Dispensaries should buy from growers on the basis of lab-tested quality and purity.

They should have the option to hire their own growers, but it shouldn't be mandatory.

 

[MassMedMan]

I think you've raised some great points. All I know is whatever happens in this state, it'll benefit the corporation not the consumer.

Just means the black market will continue until the plant is totally legal.

Good discussion, Todd.

 

[BigHeadTodd]

Thanks for the comments guys. Additionally, it strikes me a very odd that patients are, by law, forbidden to grow their own medicine. There are a lot of people who could benefit from taking some legal MM but just can't afford it. We don't know what the prices at the Massachusetts dispensaries are going to be but they are liable to be higher than street weed. There has been a lot of concern about how are low income patients going to afford their medicine. I think that the state has been hoping that the dispensaries are going to offer some sort of special discount to these folks. On some of the dispensaries web sites they talk about maybe helping some people out but they are not in the business of giving out "scholarships". Those dispensaries that do that will be very limited.

So why not let people grow their own? Maybe this is a discussion that should be addressed in its own thread but I thought I might stick it in here since it is still on the subject of growing. Thanks for thinking about it.

MassMedMan, I look forward to getting up to my 50 posts level so I can message you directly. I want to learn more about the 420 Military Vets that I see in your signature.

 

[MassMedMan]

Thanks for the comments guys. Additionally, it strikes me a very odd that patients are, by law, forbidden to grow their own medicine. There are a lot of people who could benefit from taking some legal MM but just can't afford it. We don't know what the prices at the Massachusetts dispensaries are going to be but they are liable to be higher than street weed. There has been a lot of concern about how are low income patients going to afford their medicine. I think that the state has been hoping that the dispensaries are going to offer some sort of special discount to these folks. On some of the dispensaries web sites they talk about maybe helping some people out but they are not in the business of giving out "scholarships". Those dispensaries that do that will be very limited.

So why not let people grow their own? Maybe this is a discussion that should be addressed in its own thread but I thought I might stick it in here since it is still on the subject of growing. Thanks for thinking about it.

MassMedMan, I look forward to getting up to my 50 posts level so I can message you directly. I want to learn more about the 420 Military Vets that I see in your signature.

I'm a patient in the state and legally allowed to grow my own. I don't have links at my fingertips, but the law was written to allow home grown by patients. Once they get some dispensaries open, that may change. But the way the law was written, and explained to me by an attorney,, you get a card, you can grow. How many plants,, that's the big question. .I've heard seven, I've heard just a few days ago twenty.

I think that area is still gray.

If you click on the 420 military Vets link in my Sig, you can see what's going on.

 

[BigHeadTodd]

Two things - I believe that you are allowed to grow your own this year only as long as there is NOT on open dispensary in your county. Once the dispensary opens the plants are supposed to get pulled. I have also heard various numbers bandied about as to how many plants you are allowed to have this summer. It is my understanding, and obviously I could be wrong, that you are allowed up to 10 ounces worth of dried bud. And that when the grow is being evaluated, the leaves, stems, roots, petioles, etc. are not to be counted as part of that 10 ounces. Try explaining that one to some "official" who is hell bent on ripping out your garden as they tell you that you are in trouble.

And as for the 420 Military Vets - I've clicked on the link for days and all I get when I click on the link in your sig is: "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator." So I guess maybe I should notify the administrator. I can't imagine I need 50 posts to see that page. I'll figure it out one of these days. I am kind of a newbie to this forum.

 

[J189RFC]

One of the big problems the states are facing with legal/decrim/medical laws is that each county / city can decide their own level of commitment to the program. They can arbitrarily choose a number of plants you can grow, where you can grow, how you can grow. If you can have a dispensary, if you can have retail shops, if this if that etc.

If I understood correctly the idea that dispensaries grow their own/ are forced in some places to grow their own, is to insure a seed to sale based distribution. Many of those places aren't allowed to sell clones. I'm not sure this is the best way to do it, but it's a start. Kinda hard to barcode a plant haha!

 

[Richard Richardson]

And as for the 420 Military Vets - I've clicked on the link for days and all I get when I click on the link in your sig is: "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator." So I guess maybe I should notify the administrator. I can't imagine I need 50 posts to see that page. I'll figure it out one of these days. I am kind of a newbie to this forum.

Please try the link again

 

[MassMedMan]

Two things - I believe that you are allowed to grow your own this year only as long as there is NOT on open dispensary in your county. Once the dispensary opens the plants are supposed to get pulled. I have also heard various numbers bandied about as to how many plants you are allowed to have this summer. It is my understanding, and obviously I could be wrong, that you are allowed up to 10 ounces worth of dried bud. And that when the grow is being evaluated, the leaves, stems, roots, petioles, etc. are not to be counted as part of that 10 ounces. Try explaining that one to some "official" who is hell bent on ripping out your garden as they tell you that you are in trouble.

And as for the 420 Military Vets - I've clicked on the link for days and all I get when I click on the link in your sig is: "No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator." So I guess maybe I should notify the administrator. I can't imagine I need 50 posts to see that page. I'll figure it out one of these days. I am kind of a newbie to this forum.

I'll check into any type of sunset clause. I've never heard or read that, but again, that's the problem. And I know there is still a few ways to grow even when dispensaries open. There are hardship provisions. HB2065 is also in discussion. My state rep is a co sponsor of that bill, he and I chartered a rotary club together years ago, so I'm friendly with him. We text. But, that bill if passed will give more rights to the card holder.

More "rights," ain't that spacial. Thanks for the info, I like to hear what others know so I can wade through the information.


Thanks Mr. Richardson for squaring me away.

I need some admin time....

 

[BigHeadTodd]

Thanks so much, Richard Richardson. The link is working perfectly now. In fact I just posted a long blurb there.

Redirecting Us Back TO Original Topic

My fault. I went off on a tangent and started writing about growing and I should have started an entire new thread for that. I didn't mean to divert us away from the original question. And question was all about the legal requirement here in Massachusetts that dispensaries must grow all their own product. Is this a good or bad thing from the point of view of the MM consumer? What about from the point of view of the dispensary? I am curious about the pros and cons from both points of view. I listed a few but I am sure that there are lots of others that I haven't considered.

 

[MassMedMan]

Cool. If a dispensary is a private entity, not publicly sponsored or paid for by, we the people. Then I'm all for the free market. I see pro and cons on both sides.

I look at it like this. Budweiser makes their own beer, you don't like it, you get something else. To me,.if a dispensary is privately owned and operated then I don't see it any different then ANY business.

If the product they make sucks,, guess what,, people will know, it will be the second option or not even an option. Vote with your feet.

I'm all for the free market is what I'm saying. Yes, the government/state gives me the license, same as my drivers, but I can choose what I want to drive.

My pesos

 

[BigHeadTodd]

Hi MassMedMan - Let me look at your Budweiser analogy and see if there are parallels with the MM dispensary system. First of all, How would you feel if the state told you that it will allow only 35 liquor stores in the entire state (owned by 14 or so companies) where you can buy Budweiser? (That's not exactly "free market".) And then, what if those 35 stores weren't allowed to buy Budweiser from a distributor because the store hadn't brewed it themselves? (To keep the analogy on parallel with the MM system I am pretending that liquor stores are required by law to produce all the alcoholic beverages that they sell just like how dispensaries have to produce all their own product.) Maybe the store has the Budweiser recipe but decides that it wants to make other brews instead? Then maybe that Budweiser you want is available only at the store in Pittsfield and you live 140 miles away in Boston...(I have no idea where you live. I am just siting an example.) If each and every liquor store is allowed to purchase the various brands of beer that they offer for sale from various distributors, then that is free market. But our MM dispensaries aren't allowed to look outside their own facilities for their merchandise. They are prevented by law from searching out the very best product available outside their walls. And because of that they are prevented from attempting to get the lowest price. What if you found out that Buddha Tahoe OG Kush was the only strain of MM that allowed you to sleep through the night without having to get up and pee? And then what if your local dispensary didn't carry it? And even though you are a great and regular customer, they can't order it for you because the state doesn't allow it? And they won't grow it because nobody else wants it. I know that the state is involved in regulating who sells Budweiser and when they sell it but this is different. The liquor stores are dealing with a distributor system that is separate from the retailing system. The new Massachusetts MM system doesn't allow for that separation and therefore I can't call it a "free market". I know that the dispensaries are in competition with each other but there will be only one dispensary in my county and one in the next county over. That is a little different than three liquor stores on the same block trying to get your dollar. Now that's competition. Maybe I am wrong but it looks to me like the system is set up in favor of the dispensaries and their owners, and not necessarily for what is best for the MM patient. We'll get a better idea once some more of these dispensaries open and we see what they have to offer and whether or not it is affordable. I hope all my concerns are all for nothing but right now I am seeing some potential limitations with the current system and they might not be in our best interest. I have owned my own businesses. I am a "free market" guy. This just doesn't feel "free markety" enough for me to totally trust what the dispensaries are going to do. But I am hoping for the best.

 

[MassMedMan]

Hey man, it's not perfect. Nobody said the system is perfect. I agree it's not set up for the consumer. But, that was one long complain a thon. I feel for you.

I'm just not that wrapped tight about the cons. I see them, I can find fault in anything.

You know the solution to your problems. Grow your own.

I'm a problem solver.

Problem solved.

Hi MassMedMan - Let me look at your Budweiser analogy and see if there are parallels with the MM dispensary system. First of all, How would you feel if the state told you that it will allow only 35 liquor stores in the entire state (owned by 14 or so companies) where you can buy Budweiser? (That's not exactly "free market".) And then, what if those 35 stores weren't allowed to buy Budweiser from a distributor because the store hadn't brewed it themselves? (To keep the analogy on parallel with the MM system I am pretending that liquor stores are required by law to produce all the alcoholic beverages that they sell just like how dispensaries have to produce all their own product.) Maybe the store has the Budweiser recipe but decides that it wants to make other brews instead? Then maybe that Budweiser you want is available only at the store in Pittsfield and you live 140 miles away in Boston...(I have no idea where you live. I am just siting an example.) If each and every liquor store is allowed to purchase the various brands of beer that they offer for sale from various distributors, then that is free market. But our MM dispensaries aren't allowed to look outside their own facilities for their merchandise. They are prevented by law from searching out the very best product available outside their walls. And because of that they are prevented from attempting to get the lowest price. What if you found out that Buddha Tahoe OG Kush was the only strain of MM that allowed you to sleep through the night without having to get up and pee? And then what if your local dispensary didn't carry it? And even though you are a great and regular customer, they can't order it for you because the state doesn't allow it? And they won't grow it because nobody else wants it. I know that the state is involved in regulating who sells Budweiser and when they sell it but this is different. The liquor stores are dealing with a distributor system that is separate from the retailing system. The new Massachusetts MM system doesn't allow for that separation and therefore I can't call it a "free market". I know that the dispensaries are in competition with each other but there will be only one dispensary in my county and one in the next county over. That is a little different than three liquor stores on the same block trying to get your dollar. Now that's competition. Maybe I am wrong but it looks to me like the system is set up in favor of the dispensaries and their owners, and not necessarily for what is best for the MM patient. We'll get a better idea once some more of these dispensaries open and we see what they have to offer and whether or not it is affordable. I hope all my concerns are all for nothing but right now I am seeing some potential limitations with the current system and they might not be in our best interest. I have owned my own businesses. I am a "free market" guy. This just doesn't feel "free markety" enough for me to totally trust what the dispensaries are going to do. But I am hoping for the best.

 

[BigHeadTodd]

You're right, MassMedMan. It will all sort itself out eventually. In the meantime I'm just gonna chill... Thanks!

 

[JiggyJack]

I don't think unlinking is necessary but they shouldn't be required to grow their own from seed to sale. It's just another way MA has limited patient's access to safe, quality medicine.

There should be companies that can grow and sell to dispensaries. Dispensaries should be able to grow their own or buy from other legal sources. There should be companies that can buy raw material from growers and create edibles and other infused products and sell those to dispensaries for resale.

Hopefully it will all get worked out soon.

 

[BigHeadTodd]

Looks like you and I are on the same page JiggyJack. I have no problem with dispensaries growing their own product. I just want them to be allowed to buy from independent growers, too. That would be the best thing for patients but that is not what the state allows. I am hopeful that one day that will change. I want MM patients to receive the best possible medicine at the lowest possible price. Is that asking too much? :icon_cool