Respect for bud rot

[Grandma Weedstein]

No, I don’t enjoy getting bud rot. In fact, the experience has been horrible. That said, I see it as an opportunity to learn about the enemy.

Irrationally hating an enemy makes you irrational. Respecting an enemy helps you understand him.

Botrytis is worthwhile enemy. The fungus is clever and perfidious. It infects legions of crops. It hides between buds. It doesn’t make itself known until it’s too late.

Tiny little spores float through the air and settle on flowers, then they wait — until the rain comes, until there’s an imperceptible wound in the cell wall, or wherever.

I’ve noticed they seem to infect the dead calyx of a “pre-flower” first, using it as a Trojan horse to climb deeper into the bud and destroy it. I don’t notice it has consumed the bud until a beautifully green flower is brown and fuzzy around the edges, and then totally rotten underneath.

Are there other things about this adversary that you’ve noticed? I figure if I get to know its tricks I can thwart them.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I can understand respecting one's enemy. Sun Tzu would have understood the sentiment. But I'm still going to hate this particular enemy (along with red spider mites, russet mites... and pigeons ).

Personally, when it comes to rot, I think I'd rather discover a galloping case of crotch rot. . . .

 

[Grandma Weedstein]

I can understand respecting one's enemy. Sun Tzu would have understood the sentiment. But I'm still going to hate this particular enemy (along with red spider mites, russet mites... and pigeons ).

Personally, when it comes to rot, I think I'd rather discover a galloping case of crotch rot. . . .

Shit, I wish I never saw this fungus again — stayed up til 2 am the last couple days cutting bud rot away from some of the most beautiful flower I’ve ever seen.

That said, it does have a pattern. Have you ever noticed it seems to start on the preflower as well? It makes sense those dry up early and want to fall away as the “real” flower sets in. Next thing you know, the spores are drifting up into the dense mass of flower and you’re fucked.

I’ve still got enough weed out of the deal that I’m not going postal about it, especially since growing outdoors seems to be way less of a pain in the ass for like 90 percent of the growing season.

Is it realistic to think that pinching away the preflower early on could help? Has anyone ever tried that? I’m thinking it could be a good way to keep the enemy at bay, but I’m just a drunk hillbilly and I’m sure you guys might have already considered this.....

 

[TorturedSoul]

Is it realistic to think that pinching away the preflower early on could help? Has anyone ever tried that?

The only early flowers I ever removed were ones on male plants. And my experience with that is rather limited.

I figure things attack/colonize organisms where the environment is supportive, and where the host organism is weakened (e.g., wound sites). So, I suppose the question is... Does removing a portion of the plant help by removing a potential supportive environment? Or hurt, by creating a wound site (so to speak)? If it does both at the same time, which one has the most effect?

One thing that just occurred to me is that there are substances for "painting" wound sites on trees when branches have been removed (et cetera). When removing part of a cannabis plant, would such a substance provide any benefit?

Hmm... UV lighting, both as a treatment and as a preventative?

 

[Grandma Weedstein]

That’s a good way of thinking about it, that I hadn’t considered.

So the question is: does cutting away the preflower create a wound prone to infection? Or does leaving the preflower create a repository for the fungus?

I guess I will have to do an experiment and compare the two methods next year. My thinking, tho, is the plant seems to “give up” on the preflower when it goes to full flower. A piece of dead flesh, ripe for rotting, right by the sweetest flower.

I hope I’m wrong, just because I don’t want to spend late summer picking off preflowers, LOL.

That said, the botrytis seems to make it gray and dead before the rest of the bud is gray and dead... I am assuming that’s because it uses the preflower as a launching pad.

Yeah, cutting it away creates a wound that’s prone to infection. On the other hand, no preflower means no “flower corpse” ready to be consumed...

Botrytis is considered to fulfill an ecological role by destroying leftover biomass. Does less dead biomass mean less botrytis?

Thanks for replying to my rambling thread — I am actually trying to figure this pathogen out. I do have a (small, drug-addled) brain, while the fungus does not, so I hope I’ve got the edge!

 

[bluenoserjoe]

I grow indoors and mostly during the colder months and , knock on wood, I have never experienced bud rot. Or any of the other ailments like pm and or creepy crawlies.that seem to plague some other growers. My grow room is on its third go around and was well cleaned top to bottom with hydr prox. I expect, sooner or later , to have some problems and am always following different threads learning what works and what doesn't when it comes to different ailments. Bud root being the worst as it hits at the end when you are babying all those beautiful flowers. Best of luck to you Grandma.

 

[TorturedSoul]

That’s a good way of thinking about it, that I hadn’t considered.

I do a lot of thinking. Much of it when I'm spending hours trying to fall asleep . And, hopefully, some small amount of it actually makes sense, at one time or another, to someone besides myself (or, you know, at least... to me ). Who knows, if life had been different and I hadn't spent basically the entire second half of my childhood consuming every bit (which was a lot) of every type (ditto) of drug that I could get my hands on, maybe I would have made a passingly adequate theoretical astrophysicist. I don't suppose it would have been a career to get rich from, lol - but I'd probably know that I'd be eating at least two meals today, that I'd be eating at least two meals tomorrow, and that I'd... be eating next week. So, yeah, would have been a big improvement over what actually happened.

But whoever it was that said life was fair must not have had to ever actually live one . And, besides, most of my situation came about through sins of a misspent youth (and post-youth). As for the rest, well... I do not completely discount the possibility that karma is actually a thing.

So - I think. And I ramble. Boy, do I ramble...

So the question is

Oh, sh!t, there's a question? I can pretty much guarantee the "thinking" part. Intelligent thinking? Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances...

does cutting away the preflower create a wound prone to infection? Or does leaving the preflower create a repository for the fungus?

The two are not mutually exclusive, ya know.

I guess I will have to do an experiment and compare the two methods next year.

. Remember, clones from the same mother. What for a control group, though? I'm guessing that, if a person had a way to guarantee zero infection... that the person would say, "F*ck the experimentation, I'm just going to throw all of the plants into the isolation chamber."

But, yes, experimentation is good. Please help us all out by returning and posting your observations/results (thanks!).

My thinking

Aha! Now you're doing it, too. <MUTTERS> I knew that sh!t was contagious. What had me wondering was the fact that so few people seem to catch it these days. <SCRATCHES HEAD> Those doggone vaccines, I suppose. First, they want you to survive to adulthood instead of dying from one of those diseases that killed half of great great great grandpa Caius' friends, and now they want people growing up to be thought-free.

Congratulations on catching the virus .

the plant seems to “give up” on the preflower when it goes to full flower.

Er... They do have a finite "lifespan" (so to speak). "Preflower" meaning early flower, it does make sense that they're not still healthy and viable at harvest time.

A piece of dead flesh, ripe for rotting, right by the sweetest flower.

Ah, to be a (plant-)carrion eater. You'd make me hungry with your sweet seranades, lol. Oh, wait, I was already hungry. Good thing there's no white meat on a cat. Although I find myself wishing there was. Relax, I wasn't wishing I could throw her into a skillet after suitable prep. For one thing, she's family. And <SIGH> right now, there isn't enough meat on the poor girl's bones to even make a halfway decent sandwich. I know, because I just che-- er... picked her up to pet her, earlier. But... Where was I. Hmm... Sandwich. No, wait... Oh, yeah, wishing there was good meat on a cat. Because then she might think twice about not pulling her own weight around here. I saw her run down a rabbit just the other day - but then the little sh!t tackled it, got hold of it... and gave it a quick grooming, then sauntered off. IDK, maybe she was just trying to show me how easy it was. Huh - easy for her. She's got four good legs, while I... mostly use the one to help drag the other around, these days. Or maybe... Maybe she figures that looking cute is a full-time job, and that she's better equipped to handle that part. Looking intelligent, too, maybe. F*ckin' cat... I ought to send her out with a sign stuck to her that states "NEED CATFOOD! AND BALONEY!"

Sorry, there I go thinking again.

I hope I’m wrong

I do that on a regular basis. That way, most days go pretty much like I expect them to - and there's some nonzero chance of receiving a pleasant surprise upon rare occasion.

just because I don’t want to spend late summer picking off preflowers, LOL.

Roll 'em in honey, the bears will eat 'em. I think I heard that from Pop some time back in '78, although he wouldn't have been speaking of cannabis. And I've never actually had the opportunity to find out whether a bear will, in fact, eat something just because it's been rolled in honey. Frankly, I tend to stay away from the critters; I've heard that the fat in the meat goes rancid really quick. And, while I'm so hungry I could eat a horse (with a bit of mustard) in one sitting... A bear might be pushing it. I don't really feel up to pushing a bear. Maybe after I fortify myself with the horse ...

That said

It did? Fook, I missed it. What did that say?

Just a bit of lame humor. As usual, heavy on the lame (that's how it got that way), light on the humor. Mine is often so light that it just up and floats away.

the botrytis seems to make it gray and dead before the rest of the bud is gray and dead... I am assuming that’s because it uses the preflower as a launching pad.

Could be. Whatever goes t!ts-up first is probably an easier date than that which plays hard to get. Maybe I ought to go lay down in the road? On the other hand, witches aren't all that hard to get (although they have been known to play). I got one when I was just 18. First woman I ever lived with. She read my palm. I don't think she liked what she read, though, because she put it in a dark place. It was a warm place - but it got wet. And then pretty soon there wasn't room for my palm any more. Ah, that lady... I wished I could have sculpted her. I did paint her a time or ten. I only had the one color in my... brush, but it never seemed to run out. Because... 18.

Yeah, cutting it away creates a wound that’s prone to infection. On the other hand, no preflower means no “flower corpse” ready to be consumed...

Cremate the little buggers. After all, their big sisters don't seem to mind.

Do you give any kind of silicon to your plants?

Botrytis is considered to fulfill an ecological role by destroying leftover biomass. Does less dead biomass mean less botrytis?

Well, it probably means less uninfected healthy bud. After all, it's a survivor. And I know, when I'm surviving, I likes me a good bud. I'd like one right now, as a matter of fact. People are starting to look at me as if they think I might be on drugs.

Thanks for replying to my rambling thread

Rambling? You don't know rambling. But you're beginning to learn, aren't you?

I am actually trying to figure this pathogen out.

Figure out how to genocide it. I'll figure out how to convince people to compost their dead plant material. Deal? You might think you're getting the more difficult task, but... people.

I do have a (small, drug-addled) brain

Do you keep it in a jar? If so, don't stick it beside the pigs' feet, or you'll be sorry. I... er... read that somewhere.

while the fungus does not, so I hope I’ve got the edge!

Again... Don't stick it beside the pigs' feet.