RDWC & Grow Setup: Sanity Check Would Be Much Appreciated

[multiVortex]

Hello all! Obviously new here in terms of showing up, but I've been reading, and reading, and reading for a couple years. There is so much good info and people here, I can't thank y'all enough. From LA and his wild flux and deathstar and clever tricks and tips, to all the awesome folks willing to bare it all in grow journals every day. Too many to name, but thanks to each and every one of you!

So as things have changed, and continue to change across the ol US, I'm in a spot now where I can actually do a little indoor gardening without fear of repercussions. Yay.

Over the past few months I've been working to put together a nice little indoor space to enjoy a new plant species addition to an already healthy gardening hobby. Here is an overview of the pieces I've assembled thus far (or most of them, at least the major stuff anyway.) This is not a sales pitch for any product, but I am listing specifics so y'all can know what I'm working with, and maybe what I can do better. Here we go:


Location:
Unfinished portion of basement, in an area where 3 of 4 walls are concrete, plus the floor. Middle of the day, lights out, it's completely pitch black.

Growing Area:
- (1) 4x4 Gorilla Tent (no extension being used, ceiling is an inch too short. booooooo!)
- (1) Growers Choice ROI-E680 Horticulture LED System, w/ controller (didn't need the controller, but I like new toys. )
- (2) Temp/Humidity sensors (diff brands, both well rated, to give a comparison reading)

Ventilation:
- (1) 6" AC Infinity S6 duct fan (man is this thing quiet!)
- (1) 6"x24" Phresh inline carbon filter
- (2) 8" USB powered oscillating fans (canopy level)
- (2) 6" USB powered stationary fans (floor level)
- (?) Several dozen large pieces of cheesecloth for intake protection on the tent
- (2) 6"x25ft of heavy tube ducting for any intake/exhaust needs

Misc:
- (12) ratchet hangers
- (12) D-ring carbiner clip thingys
- (2) Pairs of protective glasses
- (1) trim bin
- (2) fiskers non-stick scissors
- (1) fiskers pruning sheers
- (1) Qt each of GH nutes trio (gro, bloom, micro)
- (1) Pint each of GH PH up/down
- (6) Blunt tip syringes for measuring said nutes
- (1) Roll of silver, reflective tape (for top of lid to block light)
- (2) Rolls of soft wire tie
- (18) yo-yo's
- (?) Probably more I'm forgetting right now, and a few more odd and end things I'll pick up as the initial grow progresses and as needed.


Now for the RDWC setup. I'm at the point where I could go a few different ways.
I will try to explain as best I can.

RDWC Option 1:
This option would have 2 of the 17gal "Commander" black totes. (Each tote is 12.5" tall, 27" long, and 18" wide.)
One tote for a res, outside the tent. The other inside the tent. I would guess about 12gal of usable volume once accommodating how far a 6" net pot will extend down, plus leaving an inch or so below that.

The tote inside the tent would have (2) 6" net pots, one at each end and slightly offset.

The inside tote would have a 2" return line to the reservoir.

There would be (1) medium airstone in the inside tote. (See below for outside tote config)

Two of the above layouts (2 totes outside, 2 inside) would be in use to yield 4 plant sites total for the space.

RDWC Option 2:
This option would still have the external 17gal tote reservoir, but replace the inside tote with (2) 5gal, rectangular buckets. (9"x11"x13" tall)

The two buckets would connect to a T fitting, of which the 3rd arm of the T would return to the main reservoir.

Each bucket will have a medium airstone.

Again, two of the above would be used for the tent to allow for 4 plant sites.

RDWC Option 3:
This would be to simply take all 4 buckets from option 2, and hook them to a single reservoir. Would possibly move to a 3" return line if that happened. Still would have drip to each netpot, and med stone in each bucket.


----------------------


That's not all for the RDWC setup, but those are the different configurations I'm considering.


RDWC Common:
Each reservoir will have a small, 66gph submersible pump. This submersible pump will connect to a "cross" 4-way. 2 arms will have valves. One of those arms will be a drain line, and one will provide additional circulation. The 3rd arm will be split into (2) 1/4" lines which will each go to a net pot with a drip emitter. 66gph isn't much, but it's just enough that it should be 50gph-55gph when accounting for the static head pressure. I'm quite fine with that. Should be gentle enough that the roots won't be clogging the returns, but still enough to keep things mixing and going about.

Each reservoir will have a medium airstone, as well as a small chiller (the ones designed for like 20gal nano fish tanks.) With the ambient temp in the basement pretty much a constant 72F-74F, the floor being a little cooler than that, I expect that using that small of a chiller will keep the water volume at a nice temperature in the upper 60's.


Current Thoughts On Options:
I'm not 100% decided on which way I want to roll, and I can see the pros/cons of each. If I go with the 2 buckets inside, I could space them more evenly inside the tent. With the single tote inside, those 2 spots on that tote aren't getting any further apart than the lid will allow. With all 4 connected to 1 res, I can still space out as desired.

The single tote inside would allow for more water volume, but do I really need/want ~24gal worth of water? With 2 buckets inside, I would be around 20gal. Not that big of a diff, but 4 gallons is 4 gallons. Those values end up doubled with (2) systems in the tent, but that only for total used, not total volume per system. If going with single res and 4 buckets all connected, that puts it somewhere around 28gal total. A savings of 12gal or 20gal from the above.

I really most likely don't need a big reservoir outside, and a single bucket would do. However I like the idea of the larger water volume for stability in temp, more time for ph shifts, more capacity for nutes and thus longer times between changes, etc. Plus if I need to go somewhere for a few days, there is less worry about it overall with more volume. Even for just a weekend.

Where I'm not fond of multiple sites connected to a single reservoir (which is any of the above 3 options) is if one strain has different nute requirements/desires than it's reservoir mate(s).



I do have some more tidbits on my list to pick up, but nothing major I don't think. I'm going to put in a secure lock to that part of the basement to keep snooping guests out, if needed a humidifier/dehumidifier, reservoir monitoring system for temp/(ec/ppm/tds)/ph (already have handheld probes for those), some type of root zone additive (hydroguard, florashield, DM Zone, etc), a dose of sanity, some more quart jars, some boveda humidipacks, etc.



As this is my first real attempt at a pure hydro setup, any advice/guidance/mockery (ha ha!) would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully I'm on the right track, and will be starting up a nice new garden in the next couple of months.

 

[Chris Scorpio]

Wow...lots to obsorb..lol

At least u have done yer homework

Just got back from training camp....I'll add more soon

 

[multiVortex]

Thanks for checking, CS!

It is a lot to absorb, no doubt. I definitely have done my homework, I think, and have tried to get a solid, long lasting setup put together. I won't be growing continuously, most likely one good sized crop a year. In the downtime, I plan to use the setup (or most of it) for other things depending on the time of year. If it's cold out, I'll use it for some chile peppers and tomatoes. If it's hot out, I'll go for some cooler weather stuff like lettuce, peas, etc. But that's simply a perk to the main purpose.

For a first hydro grow I didn't want to get too crazy on the nutrients. After a ton of reading, I ended up with the GH trio. Simple, effective, well established and reviewed.

The same for the AC Cloud fan, as well as the other items. I tried to be a bit conservative where I could with power, and also tried to be conscious of the noise as well. I should be able to snake some ducting along the floor if I need some cooler air on the intake, but I don't believe that should be an issue. The inline fan won't be running full power. I'm guessing that maybe the third setting should do it, maybe the fourth if it's overly hot. But as far as turnover, the third setting "should" be plenty.

I think I've spent the most time on any individual item with the lighting. For the space, it will do just fine. The spectrum is excellent, although a little UV would have been a bonus. I get it though. The UV spectrum led's just don't last as long as the top bin chips. That's ok though, I can supplement with a few lizard lights or something if I decide to do so in flower.

With the light I wanted to find something with a good full spectrum, something with a dimmer function, as uniform of a coverage area as possible, and was also efficient but with enough power to actually grow good plants. (None of the "1500watt" blurples that actually draw 200watts from the wall.) So after a good 5 or 6 weeks of digging, I finally narrowed it down to this one. I'll hit 900-950 in the middle, and only dip to ~680-700 in the corners. It jumps up pretty quickly from there. Overall it was the best fit for what I was looking for. It's dimmable without the controller, but what the hey, I wanted a new gadget to play around with. It does have some nice little features to it, but unfortunately no spectrum tuning. (Darn the luck, but that's ok.)


I guess the biggest sticking point is exactly how I want to set up the RDWC system. I have the basics thought out, but still undecided on reservoir size. I like the idea of a larger reservoir, but at the same time it also has its downsides too. Like the nutrient levels vs different strains, plus taking a ton of RO to fill it up. I may go with just a decent water filter that gets the source water down below 100ppm and call it good. To have enough RO water for two large systems I'd have to get a pretty hefty RO system. Ain't nobody got time for that. Max would be about 12 hours on a 100gpd RO system, give or take. If I only needed 30gal, then it's down to 7 hours. Still a good wait for water, and a lot of waste as well. That's why I'm heavily leaning towards good filtration, but not the "best". Then whichever I roll with, it's still pretty quick to get enough water going.

 

[No Pain]

Okay ..so you are looking at building a combination rdwc/drip system . Me personally I would remove the drip lines and make it completely rdwc . What size air pump are you looking at using ? Either way you go I would definety run one if not two airstones in the res and 3 in the grow module or make a custom microbubble diffuser for the grow module . If you already have the small chillers then roll with them if you don't I would look into 1/4 - 1/2 hp chiller .

For the Res you are right its nice to get away ..you can go smaller and just incorporate a top off tank that auto fills the res via a float valve to aid in maintain it . In regards to separate strain needs , one thing you need to consider is finish time . Its one reason I do not run multiple strains in my 6 module rdwc system and another reason im running clones of the next strain as the breeder told me that it has 4 different phenos 2 indica and 2 sativa all with different finishing times the shortest is 9 weeks and the longest is 14 and that is a huge difference ..could you imagine having an even mix of the shortest and the longest growing strains in my system all scrogged out ? I would be pulling my hair out . lol so you may want to run two small systems so you can run differently timed strains .

In regards to roots clogging the return line you could purchase or make a screen ..current culture sells system parts and return screens ( they are cone shaped) is a part that comes with each of their systems 2" and 3" piping . Now I didn't see an inline filter im assuming you are putting one on the pump ?

Oh and welcome aboard and yes I can see you have been doing some reading . Congrats !!!!

 

[Remystemple]

I thought this guy had it going on for sure. I was slobbering watching him build it. you might have seen it already and don't like it for some reason. either way what ever set up you end up with i'm sure it's gonna me efin awesome!

 

[multiVortex]

Okay ..so you are looking at building a combination rdwc/drip system . Me personally I would remove the drip lines and make it completely rdwc .

I've considered that. I chose the drip option so that for the first few weeks, as the roots grow down to the water, it would save hand watering. Also a tick extra surface action for oxygen exchange, although that is a tiny part compared to the bubbles.

What size air pump are you looking at using ? Either way you go I would definety run one if not two airstones in the res and 3 in the grow module or make a custom microbubble diffuser for the grow module .

I have a pair of the 320 l/hr EcoPlus. (The 2-port model.) The main reservoir, if going with the 17gal tote, may get one of the long stones as there won't be anything in the reservoir.

I've also considered using a "keep-alive" ceramic diffuser. I use them on my boat in the livewell, and they really make a difference.

For reference:

If you already have the small chillers then roll with them if you don't I would look into 1/4 - 1/2 hp chiller.

I don't have a chiller yet. Once I finalize the setup, I'm going to set up a test run with the lights, fans, and containers filled up. Then I'll monitor the water temp for a few days, and see if it will be necessary or not. The light itself, surprisingly, puts off very little heat. I'm certainly not complaining about that part one bit.

For the Res you are right its nice to get away ..you can go smaller and just incorporate a top off tank that auto fills the res via a float valve to aid in maintain it .

That wouldn't be a bad option. There is space for that if I chose to do so. Nothing a big trashcan or barrel wouldn't solve. Could feed multiple ATO's from it for an extended period.

Typically I'm not away more than 10 days, and more times than not it's 5 or less. I do have a 9 day venture next month, then an 11 day trip in mid September. I'm highly tempted to get it started, but patience is a virtue as they say.

In regards to separate strain needs , one thing you need to consider is finish time . Its one reason I do not run multiple strains in my 6 module rdwc system and another reason im running clones of the next strain as the breeder told me that it has 4 different phenos 2 indica and 2 sativa all with different finishing times the shortest is 9 weeks and the longest is 14 and that is a huge difference ..could you imagine having an even mix of the shortest and the longest growing strains in my system all scrogged out ? I would be pulling my hair out . lol so you may want to run two small systems so you can run differently timed strains .

This is a very good point. I've been digging into strains quite a bit as well, and have tried to select strains as closely matched as possible in terms of height and flowering times. It's been a bit of a pain to dig down on options, but I think I'm in the right ballpark there with a couple strains that are in the medium height range, and 10 week flower.

Not 100% sure on which training techniques I'm going to use. Whether it's manifold, flux, or just LST. Also whether or not I'll scrog or not. My gut says manifold w/scrog, but flux is real similar and I do like the results from that and how it keeps it very low in the beginning.

In regards to roots clogging the return line you could purchase or make a screen ..current culture sells system parts and return screens ( they are cone shaped) is a part that comes with each of their systems 2" and 3" piping . Now I didn't see an inline filter im assuming you are putting one on the pump ?

I thought about a screen, but hadn't really read much about them being used. I just assumed the roots would grow through the screen. I guess if the mesh is fine enough, probably not.

As for the pump, it has a built-in prefilter, and I will be placing it in a little contraption I came up with a good while back for fish ponds/aquariums. Effectively, you take one of those plastic light grates and cut 6 squares from it that make a cube big enough to surround the pump. Then zip tie them together around the pump, so now the pump is in a box. Then I put a cheesecloth bag around the box and poof, instant pre-filter. The box keeps the bag from being sucked into the pump, and the cheesecloth filters out the big stuff but doesn't restrict the water flow too much. Really big pumps are another story, but the little ones are easy. For bigger pumps, wrapping the box in window screen or larger holed mesh works.

The pump itself is just a submersible pump, although it's a better one that creates little heat and is low on energy consumption. Cost a tick more upfront, but will be worth it for less heat and less electricity over all.

This really isn't a completely traditional RDWC, it has some Drip and Waterfall aspects as well. Kind of a mashup of concepts, if you will. But I do like tinkering and designing things. Fits my nature real well.

Oh and welcome aboard and yes I can see you have been doing some reading . Congrats !!!!

Thanks! It's nice coming out of the shadows and joining in a bit.

I thought this guy had it going on for sure. I was slobbering watching him build it. you might have seen it already and don't like it for some reason. either way what ever set up you end up with i'm sure it's gonna me efin awesome!

I'm not 100% sure which final version I'll end up with. I already have 4 of the 17gal totes, but those always come in handy. I think I saw 5gal black buckets that were 10 for $30 ($20 for buckets, $10 more for lids), or the rectangle buckets for $15/ea (ouch!) Nothing a grommet can't fix.

I haven't watched that video yet (at least I don't recall doing so) but will be sure to give it a watch tomorrow. I'm not opposed to saving big money at menards.

Kinda funny, but I build sub-irrigated planters out of those menard buckets. Great for a single pepper or tomato plant! But that's another topic for another time. (I do like sub-irrigated planters though. I've built quite a few, including an 8ft deck rail box, and I'm a believer!)

 

[Barney86]

Hey buddy regards your top feeding comments. What I'd recommend is rooting them up in rockwools before you plug them in. That's what I do, takes about 2 weeks. Just stick em under something low power while they're rooting up too and you'll save 2 weeks worth of leccy . I use a 130w CFL for it and it's perfect for upto 12 plants.
I'll post a pic just now..

 

[Barney86]

There we go mate. That's what they look like after 2 weeks under a shitty little CFL. Once they're that size plug them in and the roots will hit the water within a day or 2.
Because they're rooted up aswell you pretty much eliminate any risk of the stem damping off once it suddenly starts getting drowned in the system.
Happens quite a lot if you plug em in too early. Stem turns to mush at the bottom and snaps. Just safer to do it this way imo.

 

[No Pain]

I've considered that. I chose the drip option so that for the first few weeks, as the roots grow down to the water, it would save hand watering. Also a tick extra surface action for oxygen exchange, although that is a tiny part compared to the bubbles.




I have a pair of the 320 l/hr EcoPlus. (The 2-port model.) The main reservoir, if going with the 17gal tote, may get one of the long stones as there won't be anything in the reservoir.

I've also considered using a "keep-alive" ceramic diffuser. I use them on my boat in the livewell, and they really make a difference.

For reference:

I don't have a chiller yet. Once I finalize the setup, I'm going to set up a test run with the lights, fans, and containers filled up. Then I'll monitor the water temp for a few days, and see if it will be necessary or not. The light itself, surprisingly, puts off very little heat. I'm certainly not complaining about that part one bit.




That wouldn't be a bad option. There is space for that if I chose to do so. Nothing a big trashcan or barrel wouldn't solve. Could feed multiple ATO's from it for an extended period.

Typically I'm not away more than 10 days, and more times than not it's 5 or less. I do have a 9 day venture next month, then an 11 day trip in mid September. I'm highly tempted to get it started, but patience is a virtue as they say.




This is a very good point. I've been digging into strains quite a bit as well, and have tried to select strains as closely matched as possible in terms of height and flowering times. It's been a bit of a pain to dig down on options, but I think I'm in the right ballpark there with a couple strains that are in the medium height range, and 10 week flower.

Not 100% sure on which training techniques I'm going to use. Whether it's manifold, flux, or just LST. Also whether or not I'll scrog or not. My gut says manifold w/scrog, but flux is real similar and I do like the results from that and how it keeps it very low in the beginning.




I thought about a screen, but hadn't really read much about them being used. I just assumed the roots would grow through the screen. I guess if the mesh is fine enough, probably not.

As for the pump, it has a built-in prefilter, and I will be placing it in a little contraption I came up with a good while back for fish ponds/aquariums. Effectively, you take one of those plastic light grates and cut 6 squares from it that make a cube big enough to surround the pump. Then zip tie them together around the pump, so now the pump is in a box. Then I put a cheesecloth bag around the box and poof, instant pre-filter. The box keeps the bag from being sucked into the pump, and the cheesecloth filters out the big stuff but doesn't restrict the water flow too much. Really big pumps are another story, but the little ones are easy. For bigger pumps, wrapping the box in window screen or larger holed mesh works.

The pump itself is just a submersible pump, although it's a better one that creates little heat and is low on energy consumption. Cost a tick more upfront, but will be worth it for less heat and less electricity over all.

This really isn't a completely traditional RDWC, it has some Drip and Waterfall aspects as well. Kind of a mashup of concepts, if you will. But I do like tinkering and designing things. Fits my nature real well.



Thanks! It's nice coming out of the shadows and joining in a bit.







I'm not 100% sure which final version I'll end up with. I already have 4 of the 17gal totes, but those always come in handy. I think I saw 5gal black buckets that were 10 for $30 ($20 for buckets, $10 more for lids), or the rectangle buckets for $15/ea (ouch!) Nothing a grommet can't fix.

I haven't watched that video yet (at least I don't recall doing so) but will be sure to give it a watch tomorrow. I'm not opposed to saving big money at menards.

Kinda funny, but I build sub-irrigated planters out of those menard buckets. Great for a single pepper or tomato plant! But that's another topic for another time. (I do like sub-irrigated planters though. I've built quite a few, including an 8ft deck rail box, and I'm a believer!)

As far as getting those roots started you could follow what @Barney86 recommended , if you don't like that look at the completed journal in my signature and you will see a little mini root propagator ..

As far as the air pumps I would recommend something bigger for a total volume of 34 gallones of solution I would recommend a blue diamond et60 (use big hose with this type and model )

For the res yes something similar to a live well diffuser ..I like one with a rubber membrane.

As far as letting the garden sit unattended I know that I can leave for an easy 4-5 days ( depending on the growth stage) 10 days would be a good stretch .

AS far as the strains go what you read as far as finishing times are purely generality ...the strain that I talked about is listed by the breeder as a 12 week strain . IMHO to set your rdwc/dripper system up to run multiple strain you would need to have already run them out so you know exact time frames and use clones . In the beginning I ran 4 different strains in my areoflo20 back in the 90's ..well before I knew better . lol

In regards to training ...you are the judge and jury there are a lot of different things you can do .

I hear you on the pump ..you can also get a huge ice coffee filter bag and they are 100micron. Now I have used systems with internal and external pumps . I have to say I like the external pump system better with an inline filter (like they use for irrigation) . you don't have to worry about any heat from it and you create a waterfall with it . Use it to pull instead of push .. YOu could still use and external in your system and only have to design an intake tube to go into the res .

As far as the roots yes they will grow towards / in my case get pulled towards it . The screen that I spoke of is like a think cone shaped grow basket .

 

[multiVortex]

Hey buddy regards your top feeding comments. What I'd recommend is rooting them up in rockwools before you plug them in. That's what I do, takes about 2 weeks. Just stick em under something low power while they're rooting up too and you'll save 2 weeks worth of leccy . I use a 130w CFL for it and it's perfect for upto 12 plants.
I'll post a pic just now..

That is definitely a good idea. I saw you mention that somewhere recently, and it's been on my mind. I have a setup for seedlings that I use for my outdoor garden for peppers, toms, and various herbs. I have the lighting, etc, the whole shebang.

The sprouting/seedling stuff is geared towards soil/coco, but I could use it with the size of rockwool that I have (1.5", IIRC) and might be ok. I would have to tweak it just a bit, as it's a SWICK-type setup, but would be good with having the dome. I also have various sized seedling heat mats, so that's a plus. (I'm a firm believer in the heat mats, with a temp controller.)

The lighting for the above is just a basic blurple light, but it does a decent enough job at the ~130w it draws for a small veg area. I also have supplemental 4ft strip lights that I use with it, that are 5k daylight spectrum. I also have a smaller 4x2 tent that I veg that stuff out in, and it works well.

So considering all of that, I think you're right and I'll just cut the drip out completely. I was reading a journal yesterday or the day before where someone had big issues with stem mush, and found out it was from the drip and the rapid rooters were taking up way too much water.

Now in a 6" pot, I'd throw down what, an inch or so of hydroton, then the cube, and then fill to the top? Or more of a 1/3 level, cube, fill? I need to dig into that just a bit more.

Thank you so much for stopping by and offering your advice. Makes me more confident that I've picked the right community to interact with.

As far as getting those roots started you could follow what @Barney86 recommended , if you don't like that look at the completed journal in my signature and you will see a little mini root propagator ..

I will probably take Barney's approach, at least on this first hydro run. Simple, and uses principles I'm already familiar with. Although that root propagator looks like it would be fun to play with.

As far as the air pumps I would recommend something bigger for a total volume of 34 gallones of solution I would recommend a blue diamond et60 (use big hose with this type and model )

For the res yes something similar to a live well diffuser ..I like one with a rubber membrane.

I think I may be leaning towards using the tote for the reservoir, and then 2 5gal buckets on the inside. (Running 2 of those systems.)

Although I'm also still heavily considering just running a bucket res hooked to a single bucket inside. If I add ATO, I could get by with 1 larger fill/res tank, and be able to at least be gone over a weekend. At the same time I could better tailor the setup to whatever I'm doing at the time. If I need 2 buckets inside, or I want 3 or 4, maybe even 5, I could more easily adapt to what I need. That would give about an ~6-8 gal capacity per plant (assuming about 3 to 4 gal in the main bucket to account for the net pot, and a little breathing room below.

Although I do suppose I could also run the tote inside, and just a 5gal bucket res outside. Would allow for access to the water, but not be too big of a res. Add the ATO stuff, and that wouldn't be terrible.

(You can now see my mind wandering, and why I haven't finalized the setup yet. LOL)

As far as letting the garden sit unattended I know that I can leave for an easy 4-5 days ( depending on the growth stage) 10 days would be a good stretch .

Agreed. While I could let the wife keep an eye on it, gardening is not exactly up her alley. She could probably keep an eye on water levels and such, but any plant training would throw her for a loop. I could get my brother to help out, he's really good with it, but that would violate my no tell policy (so wtf am I babbling on the interwebs for? ) and even though I trust him and will be legally growing, it's better to keep a lid on it anyway.

AS far as the strains go what you read as far as finishing times are purely generality ...the strain that I talked about is listed by the breeder as a 12 week strain . IMHO to set your rdwc/dripper system up to run multiple strain you would need to have already run them out so you know exact time frames and use clones . In the beginning I ran 4 different strains in my areoflo20 back in the 90's ..well before I knew better . lol

Absolutely. For the few options I have it narrowed down to, I have started to dig through grow journals across the web to find out. (Of course checking breeders, and comparing apples to apples as the same strains can have variances between breeders.)

It may come down to just 2, but we'll see. From 4 plants, I should be able to fill my personal needs for the year. So I'm not currently planning to do grow after grow, but more like one season a year. However, if I can't find a good match for strains, I may have to use the 4x2 I mentioned earlier to get a jump start on a 2nd run and start vegging there while the others flower.

(Well, fudge. I can see this becoming a bigger and bigger hobby, so I may as well give in now. LOL )

In regards to training ...you are the judge and jury there are a lot of different things you can do .

There are definitely many, many things that can be done. I do something similar with my tomatoes (in principal, but the shape is a bit different) so the concepts are already familiar. That's a plus, I think. Although I won't be having the bird issues like I'm having outside right now. (rawr, grumble grumble!)

With 4 plants, that's effectively a 2x2 area for each one, so manifold may be the better option and then scrog it.

I'm also going to give the @Light Addict "haircut" tip a shot, just because.

I hear you on the pump ..you can also get a huge ice coffee filter bag and they are 100micron. Now I have used systems with internal and external pumps . I have to say I like the external pump system better with an inline filter (like they use for irrigation) . you don't have to worry about any heat from it and you create a waterfall with it . Use it to pull instead of push .. YOu could still use and external in your system and only have to design an intake tube to go into the res .

As far as the roots yes they will grow towards / in my case get pulled towards it . The screen that I spoke of is like a think cone shaped grow basket .

I will have to look into an external pump. It's been a while since I've read up on them, but is certainly an option. Less heat transferred to the water, or should be. I'll see if they make them small enough for want I'm looking to do.



Thanks again to all for the replies so far. I'm really enjoying the discussion, and feeling a bit better that the homework is paying off.

 

[multiVortex]

Well, I've started writing several replies/updates to my thought process here. I keep deleting them as my mind wanders over and over. However, I "believe" I have it nailed down to the best balance of all I'm looking for in my setup.

Here's a diagram of my thoughts, for reference:

Not to scale, but should give the general idea.

Basic 4-site RDWC, really. 17gal res, 1/2in supply lines to each bucket that will flow in from the top waterline level. 2in return line.

There are a few slight modifications that I've added in.

a) Coming off the pump the line will hit a T connection, and each side has a valve. One will typically be closed, and the other open. When I change out the res, I reverse them and it pumps into a drain.

b) I've added isolation valves for each bucket on the return side. If for whatever reason I need to isolate a plant, I close it's supply and main return valves. Then the secondary return line gets opened, and a temporary res will circulate in. (Secondary res and its supply are not pictured above.) So when something inevitably happens, I will have a way to work with it and correct the issue while being isolated from the main system.

c) Each bucket will be able to be disconnected from the system entirely, so they can be replaced, not used on a grow, etc. (Connectors not pictured.)


I'm guessing this will hold approximately 30 gallons total. The buckets are 2in taller than the res, but the net pot will hang down about 4.5in. So accounting for that, I'm guessing the res will end up holding about 14 gallons. This won't be a really high flow system, but should turn the total volume over roughly 5x an hour when accounting for the static head height between the bottom of the res to the top, the overall pipe length, and the valves.



So I guess the end game/question is, am I fucking this up?

 

[No Pain]

at minimum I would relocate the return line to the opposite side of the bucket otherwise you will not truly be recirculating the solution in the bucket .

I feel that you would be better off having them all in line instead of separate distribution and return lines for better circulation of the solution , Because flow will always follow the path of least resistance , you could do this and still make it so you can remove a bucket . You could also do all the aeration with one pump (et60) and possibly save yourself money in the long run .

 

[multiVortex]

Agreed.

Just a note though, the above diagram wasn't specific in terms of where hookups would be, just what runs where in general. Just a simple overall flow chart, and fitting things where I could.

One thing I'm considering as well is having each bucket return at 2", but those connect to the main return that is 3". Bigger pipe, less resistance, etc.

I think the main return line will be in the center, with 2 buckets on each side. I did think about chaining them all together, but am trying to limit the number of holes per bucket. I probably shouldn't worry about it as grommets will handle it just fine and that is what they are made for, but in my mind that is 50% less location that could leak or malfunction.

If the solution is entering each bucket at the same rate from the top, it should (I think, if my math is on over the last couple of days) distribute well enough as the pressure is decreased at the return outlet inside the bucket. If I bump the main line to 3", that should ease the resistance on the overall return across all buckets as opposed to being all 2" back to the res.

Whichever I end up with, I'll test the crap out of it first. I'll use a bit of food safe dye to check flow and mixing and make sure it all does what it should. (Then a drain and thorough rinse, of course.)

I will probably start setting things up in about 6 weeks. Gives me time to test everything before being away for a bit, then when I'm back I can light it all off and get going.



aside:

I've often thought of running the 1/2 supply around the inside of the bucket, just above the water line. Then punch a bunch of small holes, and let those all squirt the water into the bucket instead of just coming right out as a 1/2" flow. Why? Well, in my mind those many individual streams would be of a slightly higher pressure. That pressure hits the water, and makes bubbles and boosts aeration. Now I can't say it would be a good idea and work, but I think it could be an interesting deal. It would have to be balanced out so that it doesn't spray up the netpot/hydroton/rockwool/etc, however that shouldn't be too much of an issue. Just have to find the right number of holes so the flow still aerates, but doesn't significantly splash. In terms of circulation, I think it could also help that as it spreads the incoming mix around the entire wall of the bucket. (There my mind goes wandering again. )

 

[multiVortex]

Well, that's that.

The above flowchart is what's up. Have buckets, netpot lids, slightly bigger pump, and bulkhead grommets on the way and arriving over the next few days.

I will need to figure out pipe configuration/lengths/amounts still, as well as how much I need to account for on the return line and where it passes through the tent wall. A slight hump will most likely be necessary, but whether I use (4) 45 or (4) 90 degree turns, or just use flex for that part with couplers hasn't been decided yet.

I haven't set the 4x4 up yet, but if the height is the same as my 4x2, then it may be just low enough that I can make it without much effort.

I was kind of reconsidering my whole valve layout though. Not sure why, more on general principal than anything I suppose. I looked up the 2" ball valves and they're $12 a pop. Seeing as I planned for 8 of those, lucky me. LOL

What I may look at is putting a T at that spot, and just use 1 ball valve. Then I would cap the third leg of the T until I need it. That would accomplish the same thing, as I could close the single valve and divert water to the other outlet of the T instead. (Of course at that point I would have hooked up another temp res and supply for it.)

I was a tick shocked at the price for a simple valve, thinking they were closer to $6. Oh well. Kinda came this far already, so no turning back!


I did find some 3-way diverter valves that were 1.5" for $12ea, but I didn't think that would be quite enough for each buckets return and I already had 2" grommets on the way. I guess it could be enough in theory, as the supply is only 1/2 inch, but with a non-pumped return (in general application, not just hydro stuff) I like to see 4x the exit hole as the entry just to be overly safe, and for the main return they feed into, at least the total sum of supply (.5x4 being 2, so 2" min), or 1.5 - 2 times larger. (Which is why I ended up with 3" main return that each bucket feeds into, instead of 2" all the way.)

Will probably pick up the remaining pipe and fittings over the next couple of weeks, and then start putting things together the second week of September or there about. Do a trial run before my last long trip, then get going once back from that.

 

[No Pain]

well it sounds like you have a good idea as to how you want to set it up now , As fasr as going through the tent might I suggest that you cut a whole for the piping . anyway do not be surprised if when you start setting it up that you have other ideas come to mind or if your design evolves once more...its just how dyi stuff goes . lol

 

[multiVortex]

I'm looking forward to it.
I did decide to stay the course with multiple, smaller air pumps though. Less noise, and less wattage overall than getting a single, bigger air pump.

I also bumped up the water pump a bit, to a 400GPH that's adjustable and has a 7' head height. If I'm calculating correctly, that should put it at about a 250-300GPH flow after head height is accounted for. I can bump it down from there if needed.

I looked at a few inline external pumps, but most were either over powered or reviews mentioned they had a tendency to melt. If heat from the pump I have becomes an issue, I'll dig deeper into inlines and see what I can come up with.

Now for which strains and which bank. (Looking at the gracious forum sponsors Dr Seeds, Dutch Seeds Shop, and Seedsman.) Going to give 4 a try if I can find the right combination. Not 100% sure which ones, but I have a list I'm whittling down as I look through various grow journals around.

 

[multiVortex]

I think I'm going to go for it with these strains...

- Candyland
- Strawberry Lemonade
- Blue Dream
- Grandaddy Purple


They are pretty close in height, stretch, and flowering time, and seem to be similar in nutrient level tolerance. Also gives a good balance for day/night/social, while hitting the right notes for medicinal purposes.

Will be using forum sponsor Seedsman.

 

[multiVortex]

Way Too Many Seeds

• multiVortex
• Sep 9, 2019

You know that feeling. We all do.


Granddaddy Purple
Candyland
Blue Dream
Strawberry Lemonade


OK, so far, so good.
But wait, there's more! (Pretend there's a Billy Mays oxy clean gif here)

Add on:

Orange Sherbert
Lemon Drop (auto)
Durban Poison
Sweet Tooth (auto)
Quarter Pounder (auto)
Super Lemon Haze


The QP and Sweet Tooth we freebies (along with super lemon), so I added on lemon drop and will probably do a quick run on auto's in a mini tent just for shits and grins while the others veg out.

First run in the new setup will still be GDP, Candyland, Blue Dream, and Strawberry Lemonade.

After that, maybe do a run with the orange sherbert, durban, and super lemon. Or something from those, give or take. Will see when the time comes for that.