Radogast 2016 - The Neverending Growing

Lyzardman said:
Your simplicity intrigues me. Pulling up a seat.
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Nice to see you here. I don't smoke much, can you hold this for me ? :passitleft:


Mama aways said "Simple is as simple does."


(Whistles " 'tis a gift to be simple " on his way to the woodpile with axe over his shoulder. Trips on a simplicity pattern for a long vest. )
 
Experiment: Tap water vs ph adjusted water - clones in low-nutrient seedling soil


PeeJay and I were having a discussion about soil and ph over on Yankeetoker's thread Yankeetoker's 2nd Grow Attempt - 2016 - All Advice Welcome!

I had given advice to Yankeetoker about lowering ph and exploring watering technique due to slow growing. This advice is based upon my May 2014 - March 2015 experience of plants not actually vegging in similar soil when I was overwatering with unadjusted tap water at 6.6-7.0 ph. When I lowered the water ph to 6.0-6.4 growth took off. After 10 months, my palm trees on 8" sticks FINALLY put on large, healthy leaves and grew into plants worthy of flowering.


PeeJay showed up (thanks much PeeJay) and talked authoritatively about soil being too hot - overfeeding as the real cause. I respect PJ but I also know that my girls DID NOT grow at what should be a good ph water of 6.6-7.0.

When theory does not match my experience, what should I do? Try an experiment! :)


Since about 4/20 last year, my seedling soil has been made with peat, lobstah compost, and perlite in a 6-2-5 ratio. My adult soil is in a 4-4-5 ratio with worm compost replacing some of the lobstah compost and additional "Clackamas Coot" amendments.


Starting the experiment:

I built a low-nutrient seedling soil of peat, Coast of Maine Quoddy Blend Lobster Compost, and perlite in a 7-1-5 ratio. I made enough for months of use.

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I removed 2 White Widow clones and placed them in the soil mix.

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1 clone will be grown with tap water (measured today at 6.8 ph,) 1 clone will be grown in my standard ph adjusted water (6.2-6.4 ph)

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The 4x larger clone with 2x longer roots will get tap water. Denise, the clone I don't want to risk losing, will be given ph adjusted water.

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A successful experiment will be for BOTH the plants to thrive, showing the ph adjustment is not required for less nutrient rich seedling soil.
 
Following up on the idea that my seedling soil is probably too hot, I took the dark green 2-leaf Quiffa reveg clone out of the center right of this picture.

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Just like with the Mandrake babies in Professor Sprouts class, I held Quiffa by her trunk, brushed off soil from her roots, and transplanted her into the low-nutrition seedling mix.

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I followed the bare root planting method and made a cone in the soil, spread the roots down the sides of the cone and covered up to the base of the trunk in moist soil.

I may end up doing the same transplant into new soil for HWS Flower, the little yellow girl in the center of the first photo.
 
AK47 Bonnie

To make room for the small pots in Early Veg, I moved AK 47 Bonnie to Late Veg under the PAR colored T5s

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Bonnie is about 12" tall and 15" wide. I am pleased by her shape and bud sites - 1 topping followed by LST of the two arms.

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If I understand the suggestions of CareStalker, Feral and Toast - - I should be crushing stems below each bud site to slow and thicken the branches. How far below?
 
Radogast said:
Clara Barton, volunteer nurse and founder of the American Red Cross

I believe I have a Raymond Chandler paperback on my nightstand right now. I held one of his manuscripts (briefly.)

My wife is on Chapter 34 of a film noir novel (started in November.) In Chapter 31 there is a sharing of cannabis before they break their sexual tension :)
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Thank you --- it was driving me nuts and google wasn't helping ...
I'm snickering at the noir novel involving cannabis -- that is perfect! Just adds more smoke to the atmosphere!

Thanks for your experiment, too. I'm just starting my first grow in organic soil and I'm totally confused about the importance of pH. I've been paying attention to it with liquid nutes in coco coir, of course, but I had thought that a good organic soil modulated pH all on its own so I didn't have to worry about it :) I'm learning lots.

I also have Simple Gifts (the Bernstein arrangement) stuck in my damned head now :)
 
Radogast said:
If I understand the suggestions of CareStalker, Feral and Toast - - I should be crushing stems below each bud site to slow and thicken the branches. How far below?
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I have not used the crushing method, bent a couple by accident but i mainly stick to Topping and tying down to get width on my girls. It should create a nice knuckle on the branch and promote lower growth while healing and then continue on. I would wait for CareStalker or Toast to comment though as they have a lot more experience ;)

Site just messed up again, had to re-like everything and 2nd try on the reply LOL
 
FeralA9X said:
Exactly as CareStaker said, kinda like what i was saying the other day about LST and topping, ... a little training and an extra 2 weeks in veg im sure you will have amazing results.
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My default is topping once and clean the lower 1/3...that's about it. I've never had an issue with yield, but I find yield less-relevant when you don't run out.

FeralA9X said:
I had a feeling it was to do with american history, i tried searching the interwebs but could only come up with Clara Maass who died from volunteering for medical experiments.... way off :rofl:
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That's some funny shit right there ^

:cool:

On the boveda packs...I got a set of the C-vaults and a big stack of these came with them. I've used them for 3 years and I'm with Rad...I won't store my produce without them. ;)
 
Governmentchz said:
My default is topping once and clean the lower 1/3...that's about it. I've never had an issue with yield, but I find yield less-relevant when you don't run out.
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And that has worked well for me for several grows. but now - plants that I expect to be 3-5 oz are coming in at 1-1.5 oz, but at double the quality. Spider mites have been part of the issue.

When my wife broke her ankle in september, consumption increased to over 1 oz per week. Right now she has less than 2 oz. On the production side, I have a one plant harvest in 2 weeks, and a 2 pot harvest in 3.5 weeks. Feeling behind the 8-ball for 2 months now.


Governmentchz said:
That's some funny shit right there ^

:cool:
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Looked up Clara Maass in wikipedia. It was educationally bizarre :)


Governmentchz said:
On the boveda packs...I got a set of the C-vaults and a big stack of these came with them. I've used them for 3 years and I'm with Rad...I won't store my produce without them. ;)
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:circle-of-love:
 
MaxHeadroom said:
Looking good - subbed. I stumbled on your grow rather late so I'll catch up fully tomorrow. What I've read so far has been entertaining. G'night from the UK.
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Page 10 - that's only 2 days on SweetSue's thread :rofl: :rofl:



You aren't late, MaxHeadroom. We play by wizard rules here, so Bob's your uncle :

'A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to. - Gandalf
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Speaking of MaxHeadroom, we just started season 22 of survivor on Hulu.
Steve Wright, ex-NFL offensive guard and tackle, looks like the actor who played MaxHeadroom and Taggart on Eureka.
 
Radogast said:
And that has worked well for me for several grows. but now - plants that I expect to be 3-5 oz are coming in at 1-1.5 oz, but at double the quality. Spider mites have been part of the issue.

When my wife broke her ankle in september, consumption increased to over 1 oz per week. Right now she has less than 2 oz. On the production side, I have a one plant harvest in 2 weeks, and a 2 pot harvest in 3.5 weeks. Feeling behind the 8-ball for 2 months now.
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man...that is tight. I'm not up to speed with your grow, but I'm sure you've checked the typical culprits (pests, disease, low soil energy, etc,). I hope you can get ahead of the problem, and your wife makes a swift, complete recovery.
 
Hi Rad!

I can't believe I wasn't subbed to your thread. Well, now I am! Such great info presented in an easy way too digest it. Stellar grow, info and Tude my friend! :circle-of-love::Love::circle-of-love:
 
Governmentchz said:
man...that is tight. I'm not up to speed with your grow, but I'm sure you've checked the typical culprits (pests, disease, low soil energy, etc,). I hope you can get ahead of the problem, and your wife makes a swift, complete recovery.
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Thanks Governmentchz (I've been pronouncing "Govern mentch." Maybe it's Government cheese?)

Right now I'm working on the theory that I have overly hot soil.

I'm not so confident of figuring it out, but I am persistent. (I am 9 months in recovery from a 10 month long failure to thrive. )



My wife's ankle has healed without surgery to where she has over 80% mobility and improving, (she only uses the cane for stairs now.) 3 bones were sheared near the joint (tibia with herscovici c, fibula with weber b, and upper talus.)

Without surgery the bones within the cast had to rotate and mend according to internal body signals. In one place, a pie shaped sliver of bone was rotated 180 degrees away from the matching pie shaped indentation. This bone was absorbed and rebuilt in the correct space while tendons attached to newly created anchors on the fresh bone. The healing powers of the body are awesome, but not usually reliable for humans over 50.

Healing naturally with over 70% recovery from this injury is somewhere on the spectrum between calling in everyone to say "dude look at this" and "If I didn't know it was true I'd call you a liar." She will probably recover at least 95% of her ankle and leg functions. So the healing/recovery is great.
:goodjob::thumb:


The problems she is having now are typical to modern western medicine, the cure is almost as bad as the disease. She didn't have surgery due to blood clots from the break itself (pulmonary embolisms in each lung including 3 necrotic areas.) Warfarin/Coumadin (blood thinner to prevent more clots) reacts with almost every herb and plant except marijuana. This means that she had to stop all the dietary controls and herbal supplements she has been using to manage her fibromyalgia and plantar fasciitis - requiring extra marijuana to pick up the slack.

Previous liver damage from pain meds reduces her pain choices to opiates and marijuana - requiring extra marijuana to reduce opiod intake. She has stopped the opiods and the remaining pain symptoms are on par with her 'normal' chronic fibro and foot pains. So her pain and disease requirements are back to before the ankle break. but she still has 2-3 more months before she can restart her herbal supplements and return to a balanced diet - and further reduce her medical marijuana intake. .


Which was the long way of saying, she is mostly healed, but for the next 2-3 months her need for marijuana remains high.

Thanks for letting me explain. - Six months ago, my wife had 1/2 oz to 3 oz of five strains available. It is frustrating to have 1.25 oz harvests after 4 months of veg happen now, during this period when she really needs a reliable supply of marijuana. I feel like I failed her in her hour of need, although she is TRULY grateful for the medical marijuana we grow. Sometimes, I have to let that frustration out.


So how DO you say Governmentchz ?
 
Radogast said:
Thanks Governmentchz (I've been pronouncing "Govern mentch." Maybe it's Government cheese?)


So how DO you say Governmentchz ?
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LMAO...I don't say it much. It's like if your name is bob and you go walking around announcing "bob is going to lunch!". But I like your interpretation best...I like the mentch. :rofl:

Regarding your wife...I get it. I'm over 50 too and my wife has lupus along with 2 other maladies that make symptom treatment a HUGE challenge. She's still finding her way with mmj, but Im sure we'll get there. Personally, I've used it for almost 10 years medically. As a young adult, my right arm was crushed and severed. It was re-attached and rebuilt...and it is NOT "better than it was" though it felt like it cost 6 million dollars.

Anyway, for the last 30 years the only help I was offered was unlimited opiates. I'm in healthcare and knew that wasn't where I wanted to be medicinally so I turned to mmj.

So, yeah...I get it, and appreciate the explanation. Do you live where you can possibly reach out to a local compassion club or collective to supplement until you can get your yield back in order?

:cool:
 
Hey Rado, it's way early for me, so I'm just going to riff a bit.

I've seen a weight versus quality relationship in most of my grows. There's lot of ways to break that down though, and no two grows are the same. Generally, in soil, the most important thing is to not have too much of anything in the soil, and to get IN as much oxygen as possible, with proper watering, so that you cycle the plant like it wants. Having too much of anything, and overwatering cause the most problems. I'd rather run them on the deficient and drier side if I had a choice. With all of that said, if done right, with most strains, there really isn't that much of a difference in quality, when you come in near the top of your yield potential. I've found a few exceptions, but it's more likely that I'm not giving them what they want.

I am a big believer in pH. A real believer. I believe that if you don't add nutes, you can rely on the soil to slowly adapt, acclimate, and then control the pH in the immediate rhizosphere, if your inputs are within a certain range. But, if you are adding anything to the water, that the plant is waiting for, I would pH it to 6.3 in soil, every time. Using organics only, I think you can go lower without too much issue, but not too much higher. I'd have to defer to PJ on that, as I use nutrients in addition to the organcs already in the soil. Anyway, it only takes a minute or two, and once you know your mixes, and water, you know what your pH will be before you even start. I don't measure anymore, but I know where it will be.

For yield in training - I like to top once, and early. The plant will sit down in it's pot, and thicken. Thick branches, produce so much better. That's also what the crushing does. The injury sends hormones to down from the site, so that the support below, is thicker and stronger. I do this with a lighter touch than many. I don't break the outer skin usually. I just roll the stem, just a node or two below the top, where I can get my fingers in, and squeeze, till I hear/feel it crush a little. You might see a little sap stain the outer skin. You can really snap them over, and supercrop them too. Depends on what you want, and if you're running out of height. I do this from about week 2 in Veg, although when they are young, I just pinch, rather than crush. Hit em once and then let them heal. Repeat until you are happy with them. A blowing fan will also thicken them up.

Adding benes like bacteria and fungi, and keeping them watered correctly, do amazing things to roots. When you combine all of that with an acceptable environment, and enough light, yield should be there. I aim to get a zip per gallon of soil. Doesn't always work though. With short Veg plants - I've got over 8 in a 3, and under 2 in a 5, so there's that too. :) Good genetics are as important as anything else too. I'm looking forward to seeing your experiment, and all the rest. Best to you both :Namaste:
 
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