Problem with first grow - Leaf serrations curling twisting leaves

A

Anon81

New Member
Hey guys, finally getting underway for my first medical grow. Having some strange problems with the leaves. Leaf serrations have been curling up and now the leaves are twisting a bit. No sagging that would indicate overwatering, no burning that would indicate nute problems. I've searched around for hours and I can't seem to find anything similar. They have also been growing what seems to be pretty slow.

The leaves were starting to taco a bit a few days ago so I raised the light from 18" to 24". Any ideas?

What Strain is it? (1x) Serious Seeds Kali Mist (Sativa) - (1x) Nirvana Auto Northern Lights
How Many Plants? 2
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? Seedling/Veg
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long? 14 days from seed
Indoor or Outdoor? Indoor
Soil or Hydro? Soiless
If Soil... What is in your Mix? 4 Parts Sunshine Advanced #4 + 1 Part Course Perlite
If Soil... What Size Pot? Solo cup for Kali Mist, 3 gal smart pot for Auto NL
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? 1x300w LED
Is it Air Cooled? Yes
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? 70-79 degrees
RH of Room/Cabinet? ~60%
PH of Medium or Reservoir? Have not tested, using RODI water
Any Pests? None that I know of
How Often are you Watering? Once every 5-6 days when the top of the soil is mostly dry
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? Advanced Nutrients Voodoo Juice & Sensi Grow @ 1/4 strength
Size or Square Footage of Room? 2' x 4' cabinet

You'll notice the curling serrations on the leaves and the twisting of the leaves in some areas. Thanks guys!

Serious Seeds Kali Mist in Solo Cup



Nirvana Auto Northern Lights in 3gal Smart Pot

 
You will be fine. The very first few sets can have some odd morphology for a few reasons but nothing to freak about. The plants are very robust. No nutes for the beginning and light watering and she will be glorious.

The only reason I am responding is I wanted to give props for a good looking soil blend. Good start man. Too many times we see VERY bad soil in pics this early and it just makes me shake my head every time. You have a good future ahead of you!

If that soil is truly as good as I hope you did you wont need nutes for weeks, maybe none through veg. Make sure you get some Silica/potash treatment and keep some Cal / mag handy and you are golden pony boy.
 
Welcome!

As VillageIdiot says, twisted leaves happen often with new seedlings -- don't worry, it will all work out :)

So I just want to clarify that you're growing in a soilless mix (with some added things), right? Mostly peat based? I grow in coco coir, myself. Usually the cotyledon has enough food for the seedling for a few weeks, but you will need to "feed" the plants. I start with a very week solution from my plants' second week.

But the one thing you need to look at, growing soilless, is pH. People growing in soil, especially organic soil, don't have to worry about it so much, but we do :)

I wouldn't worry about the pH of the medium so much as the pH of your water and water/nute solution. So get a cheap pH testing kit (for aquariums or gardening) -- the ones with the drops. You want to be able to keep your pH moving through the range of 5.5 to 6.5 for soilless. It's too easy to lock out nutrients and then you will have problems. The test is a blunt instrument but will give you some very useful information!

All the best
 
Sorry for the long post...

Thanks for the replies guys. It just seems like I definitely did something wrong. All the pictures I find on all these other threads show much faster growth and perfect leaves. I would have thought they would be growing faster given that they both popped above soil 14 days ago tomorrow. They were soaked for 24 hours in water and took 48 hours to emerge before that.

I did do a ton of research before I ordered the seeds and then almost 2 weeks of research before I finally germinated them. I always spend a lot of time trying to make sure I'm as well prepared as possible to try to minimize issues.

The soiless medium I am using is Sunshine Advanced #4 with 20% additional coarse perlite. Sunshine Advanced #4, which is listed to contain: "Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, perlite, coir, dolomite lime, gypsum, organic fertilizer, proprietary blend of endomycorrhizae, and organic wetting agent". I will also be using the Sensi pH Perfect line from Advanced nutrients. I do have a pH probe and a TDS probe, but I decided to try the pH perfect nutes for my first couple grows. Plus I'm sure I would grow to hate testing for pH(I do saltwater reef tanks and I hate all the testing and dosing). I plan to move to some sort of organic possibly super soil method eventually, but I'll have to research that and spend time cooking the mixes etc...


Let me try to explain everything I did, I always like to know exactly where and how I screw something up.

I started with seeds from TSSC. I soaked them in plain water for 24 hours(not to fully germinate, just to presoak) and planted them into pre-moistened soil about 1/4" deep. They both emerged 48 hours later, which was 13 days ago.

I placed them under my LED lights at 24". A day or 2 later I moved the lights down to 18" as I was worried about them possibly stretching.

Another day or 2 later I noticed the leaf serrations starting to curl a bit so I moved the light back up to 24". I believe I also watered them both a bit with RODI water and Voodoo Juice at a pH of 6.8.

At about 8 days I noticed the leaves kind of taco'ing a tiny bit. I did some reading and raised the light to 36". I also decided to go ahead and water again, this time with 1/4 strength nutes. I decided to do this as my soiless mix lists that it contains a small bit of organic fertilizer. I will be using the AN pH Perfect nutes and I don't want to worry about checking pH, so I figured by adding the chelated nutes I would stave off any possible problems with nutrient uptake.

A couple days later I noticed the second set of true leaves on the kali mist coming out straight up. The next day they started to lay down and slowly grow. They next day they were pointing straight up again, kind of seemed to go back and forth the last few days like that.

So fast forward to today and the second sets of true leaves are all laying flat and appearing to grow a small amount. But the leaf serrations are still curling and now the leave have those weird twisting/sagging spots in them. Also, the Auto NL appears to be yellowish in the creases of the new growth.

I have no doubt things will probably start to get better like you guys said, just really wondering exactly what I did that screwed it up because based on all the pics I find, my plants are growing pretty slow. I'm thinking it's most likely related to the LED light being so close, if that can slow the growth. I was also thinking I may have been overwatering a bit but the leaves never sagged, as it is now it takes several days for the soil to get barely moist at the top. I added a fan a few days ago to circulate air to help with that(not directly on the plants).

Thanks for taking the time to read all this. I know all of this isn't overly complicated, but I'd like to have the best results possible and not waste too much time. Oh, I have a Female Seeds C99 that just surfaced yesterday morning. I moved it under the LED's this morning @ 36". I'm not going to feed this one for a bit and I'm going to let the soil dry out more, maybe I can find out if the light distance or the watering was responsible for the slow growth of these 2. Thanks!
 
Using the diagnosing site I go to the best I can come up with is pH issues as previously stated. This is the one thing difficult about truly soiless.

I started doing a blend back in the day that is very similar to a modern soilles blend but still uses soil and I get the benefits of both worlds. Hydro type growth, uniform wetness, easy slow nute control, no need to add nutes for most of the growth, and easier pH control as it is self buffered. But I took years of experimenting to get there. And based on some modern trends I may even try some new things next summer. I will never quit experimenting.

I think you are going to be just fine keep doing what you are doing. Start a journal if you are really worried. You don't want this thread to go on forever that is what journals are for. I think you have the answers you need for this one.
 
rigidigital said:
Twisted leaves - genetics. Ignore that bit. See eg:

Cannabis Seedling Problems: How to Resolve Any Issues - Weed KB

Cannabis seedling problems can be easily remedied or avoided from the start. ? Learn how to diagnose and resolve cannabis seedling issues!
weedkb.com
and

Cannabis Seedling Problems: How to Resolve Any Issues - Weed KB

Cannabis seedling problems can be easily remedied or avoided from the start. ? Learn how to diagnose and resolve cannabis seedling issues!
weedkb.com
Click to expand...
Good morning @rigidigital hope you are well my friend.
That thread is from 2015 and they may not reply.
Top left corner has the date.
Makes it easier to see the current threads.
Take care. :passitleft:




Stay safe
Bill284 :cool:
 
Bill284 said:
Good morning @rigidigital hope you are well my friend.
That thread is from 2015 and they may not reply.
Top left corner has the date.
Makes it easier to see the current threads.
Take care. :passitleft:




Stay safe
Bill284 :cool:
Click to expand...
What do you think the original problem was? Personally I think it was their Rh.. a seedling that young would need a bare minimum of 70 rh at a temperature of 71F to fall within proper VPD.. Every time I’ve had an issue with seedling leaf distortion (that looks exactly like the image shown) it’s resolved with increasing my rh.. lower rh makes the leaves work incredibly hard at a young age

Ime genetics will affect more than one set of leaves
 
Keffka said:
What do you think the original problem was? Personally I think it was their Rh.. a seedling that young would need a bare minimum of 70 rh at a temperature of 71F to fall within proper VPD.. Every time I’ve had an issue with seedling leaf distortion (that looks exactly like the image shown) it’s resolved with increasing my rh.. lower rh makes the leaves work incredibly hard at a young age

Ime genetics will affect more than one set of leaves
Click to expand...
I would have told him to check ph.
It's Hydro, he didn't set ph to 5.8
Just a guess.
Take care.




Stay safe
Bill284 :cool:
 
I just popped 9 seedlings from three different breeders and mine are looking exactly like this. I am using PH perfect Connoisseur with Voodoo Juice Plus Tablets in Pro Mix with added Perlite. I also fed 1/4 strength nutes as well.
My PH was 6.0 after mixing the nutes. I'm curious if this is coincidence or AN is causing some problems. I use a pulse meter and my VPD is .8 to 1.0 and temps are 65-75. I don't think this is a VPD issue..
 
Yourboy4oh said:
I just popped 9 seedlings from three different breeders and mine are looking exactly like this. I am using PH perfect Connoisseur with Voodoo Juice Plus Tablets in Pro Mix with added Perlite. I also fed 1/4 strength nutes as well.
My PH was 6.0 after mixing the nutes. I'm curious if this is coincidence or AN is causing some problems. I use a pulse meter and my VPD is .8 to 1.0 and temps are 65-75. I don't think this is a VPD issue..
Click to expand...


are you ph'ing ?

trying to ph that AN product creates several problems and it will not be stable if you do. just mix and feed with that line. it may work better with hp, i don't think sunshine is buffered.

the voodoo juice really doesn't do much but empty your wallet. oddly it'll work better with a different nute type than what AN is.
 
bluter said:
are you ph'ing ?

trying to ph that AN product creates several problems and it will not be stable if you do. just mix and feed with that line. it may work better with hp, i don't think sunshine is buffered.

the voodoo juice really doesn't do much but empty your wallet. oddly it'll work better with a different nute type than what AN is.
Click to expand...
I don't add anything to change the PH. It just happens to settle at 6.0 when using their PH Perfect. I also check the runoff PH and it shows 6.1. I ditched the AN liquid Microbes but their Voodoo Plus Tablets are a lot cheaper when you break them down. They are meant for 100 gallons per tablet so if you break them down they're a decent price. I am starting to think the what the OP and myself are experiencing is light stress. I had a 600W LED set to 40 percent and everything looked perfect. When I fed them 1/4 strength nutes and switched to 60 percent the leaves started looking like the OP's picture. The stretching stopped and the newer nodes were very dense. The lights were 36 inches from the tallest plant. The PPFD was 360 at 40 percent and 580 at 60 percent. I currently have the lights back to 40 percent and things seem to be recovering but are still stunted.
 
Yourboy4oh said:
I don't add anything to change the PH. It just happens to settle at 6.0 when using their PH Perfect. I also check the runoff PH and it shows 6.1. I ditched the AN liquid Microbes but their Voodoo Plus Tablets are a lot cheaper when you break them down. They are meant for 100 gallons per tablet so if you break them down they're a decent price. I am starting to think the what the OP and myself are experiencing is light stress. I had a 600W LED set to 40 percent and everything looked perfect. When I fed them 1/4 strength nutes and switched to 60 percent the leaves started looking like the OP's picture. The stretching stopped and the newer nodes were very dense. The lights were 36 inches from the tallest plant. The PPFD was 360 at 40 percent and 580 at 60 percent. I currently have the lights back to 40 percent and things seem to be recovering but are still stunted.
Click to expand...


would have to see them. something doesn't quite add up, but if they are happy just keep at it.
 
bluter said:
would have to see them. something doesn't quite add up, but if they are happy just keep at it.
Click to expand...

They still don’t look the healthiest. They’re starting to show what look like Phosphorus deficiency. The stems and underside of the leaves are reddish purple. The white powder on the edges is diotamacous earth I added to protect from fungus gnats. Do you think this is more than just stress?
9E9DEA84-50D0-40A5-AF06-829E20607D76.jpeg
F5154138-FD7E-46B0-AD29-DBF350D901F9.jpeg
 
Yourboy4oh said:
They still don’t look the healthiest. They’re starting to show what look like Phosphorus deficiency. The stems and underside of the leaves are reddish purple. The white powder on the edges is diotamacous earth I added to protect from fungus gnats. Do you think this is more than just stress?
9E9DEA84-50D0-40A5-AF06-829E20607D76.jpeg
F5154138-FD7E-46B0-AD29-DBF350D901F9.jpeg
Click to expand...



you are looking good right now. plant may need a few things coming up. a list and pic of what you have and the set up would help. not sure you have the complete base nutes and i'd have some calmag on hand.

maybe start a new thread or get a grow journal up so we can have a look and help.
 
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