B"H
until becoming too disabled to do so, having practiced criminal defense while in law school and a bit thereafter in la, ca working on motions to quash evidence resulting from what were arguably bad search and seizures. (although, a good defense lawyer always goes after the search and seizure just for sh*ts and giggles and anything else they can try and quash) please understand, these were very large, federal drug cases where it was not mj, but far heavier substances in mass quantities from south america, and there were guns and multiple clips along with millions in cash all in duffel bags involved. i also did a few other small cases like dui's with small quantities of illegal drugs, when i say 'cooperative,' i mean not combative so as to create an attitude which will only escalate the situation. in a dui, for example, despite california's presumption of being under the influence if they refuse to cooperate with the tests, one should always refuse a breathalyzer and blood test as they can be tough to beat. this is advice i overheard from a close friend of my family long before i went to law school who was a cop and Jewish to boot which is odd. (vis a vis, in terms of refusing the test) it does give a lawyer more wiggle room as they have no actual blood-alcohol level that is precise for prosecution and determination of sentence if found guilty unless you are not under the influence in anyway. there is no definitive proof they exceeded the legal limit. i guess cooperative can be interpreted as "say everything," but i mean it more in terms of attitude and response to request for license and registration info as well as where you are coming from and going to - basic and innocent facts unless they are not innocent. just do not act combative or lie as it is suspicious and will only escalate things in all likelihood. avoiding answering basic info makes it seem like you are hiding something too and can cause things to escalate. it is a judgment call that can only be made at the time under the exact circumstances. being armed with the information to weigh the risks and benefits is helpful in advance.
you also have to remember the penalties are much stricter for minors and or persons under 21 which applies here too; i believe that is the case in all states. i know he was in a bad place...geographically speaking wrt LEO's tolerance. i have never been to the south other than to get on a cruise ship in the part of florida that is not the south - nor would i want to be in the south or live there for many reasons which i do not feel are relevant to discuss here. i just saw you are in the south; please know, it is nothing personal.
in the case discussed here, if he did not offer up, the k9's would have discovered it and he could have gotten in much bigger trouble. he was saving his own behind. as i understand, the driver was let free with a warning basically whether or not it was formally written up or not. it was the minor in the back seat who was cited for possession which is not being put into custody as it was a misdemeanor citation due to the low quantity as i understand it.
btw, you have no right to a lawyer until you already in custody, been transported to the station, processed, and they begin interrogating you. from a practical standpoint, you cannot call your lawyer from the street before they transport you. you just invoke your fifth amendment right, and you can keep quiet thru that process, but you cannot call a lawyer yet. you get your call at the station. after you do all that, you are still not in the clear wrt getting your lawyer as it often plays out this way. if you ask for your lawyer when you are finally allowed to invoke the privilege, they can just stop questioning and hold off calling your lawyer, then come back to see if you are scared, hot, in need of a rest room, hungry, thirsty, and/or claustrophobic enough to just start talking again. it happens all the time. however, you should not proffer evidence of guilt or any wrongdoing. as you said, cooperate with requests for id and basic questions which do not implicate you and save your story for your lawyer. unfortunately, your story and that of LEO's are often vastly different as discussed below - how much LEO's lie.
you are correct about asking whether or not you are being held for questioning, are free to go, or are in custody then you give your lawyer some play if you were actually in custody. but, they Mirandize, when they tell you thay are placing you in custody and under arrest. also, they do sometimes Mirandize ineffectively, for example when confronting a foreign speaking suspect as there is a language barrier the lawyer can argue depending on the defendant's country of origin and language. there are not many officers trained in various african or persian dialects. however, this is not including spanish as they have it on a card in spanish as well as officers trained to Mirandize in spanish.
i can only speak in generalities without all the info and doing some research as i am now between the two coasts, totally disabled, and have had my bar card in CA placed on inactive status as i will never practice again due to the nature and extent of my disabilities or medical challenges rather! more p.c. the penalties have changed and there are slight alterations in the laws due to case precedents that have come down since i practiced 15 years ago or more.
(i am sorry, i did not read your entire response, (i have now edited my post), but i believe we are saying essentially the same thing.) i am not deconstructing your argument, but adding some praqctical information based in real life experience of clients i once represented. as i said, we basically agree. btw, i never rely on wikipedia because you never know who put what in there. i would look to black's law dictionary under these circumstances to begin with. something i was taught about wiki long ago wrt any information. i imagine some of it is correct, but the sources are not entirely reliable which causes me pause.
i should say that in most cities dogs are fairly common nowadays. having a service animal myself, i am familiar with the issue of service and working animals and the community thereabout as i volunteer my time for all that i have gotten from having my own service animal. these animals can be such incredible help to people. i work with people who train police dogs as well as service animals. k9s do exist in most police units/stations. not in every car, but there are a few to go around especially with the mandatory stop points they use now regularly to deter crime and of course ever since 9/11. they have become a necessity for reasons even beyond just drugs yet come in handy for drugs more than other things i would bet! i cannot give you any bluff facts, but i would be concerned if i heard that the LEO called for k9 back-up. i have seen police k9 units just driving around their normal beats on both coasts fairly often.
it is not a matter of making their job easier, it is a matter of saving your own rear end! furthermore, i believe depending on the severity of the situation, you can get a better result by being honest sometimes. it is a gamble i suppose, but under the facts here, i would have done the same thing. granted, as a 38 year old woman, i would probably be treated with a bit more deference than 4 young men (barely of legal age) on x-mas eve which is a big night for LEO's to go fishing. the holidays are always when they are fishing the most. fortunately, it seems things went well in this particular case as it could have been worse for the driver - as per comments above about my understanding of the outcome. (btw...i have just started writing in forums, so i apologize i am not too adept at doing the quote and answer thing which makes following the response better. i promise i will work to better learn to use these forums, so it is easier to follow my response. thanks in advance for your patience and understanding.)!
one thing that has not changed in 15 years and will never change is the fact LEO's lie more than any defense lawyer or any other lawyer for that matter. they are worse than the prosecutors too who do lie and/or withhold evidence which exonerates the defendant during discovery phase, and beyond their own lies, they perpetuate the lies of law enforcement whether knowingly or not. LEO's lie to them and in their incident reports. it is the reason i would only do defense work. it is sickening the lengths to which i have seen them go to: everything from planting evidence, making false reports of what was said, and backing each other up on the lies to worse. it also continues during the investigation phase of things before the discovery phase of it all. it is truly pathetic and sad. defense lawyers bear heavy weights on their shoulders as they often hold their clients' lives in their hands. there is a reason there is something called "trial mood" which is exhibited by defense lawyers amongst others when they have big stakes on the table. i do not think a person's freedom or life is something one fights for without having great weights on their shoulders. especially when you are talking hard and long time for in most federal prisons (not the type with dorms) as well as maximum security state prisons. not to mention the death penalty cases which are irreversible if the execution takes place after exhausting all the appeals. then, there is the terrible manner in which they use to execute where even lethal injections can be worse than the electric chair. it is hard to imagine any thing worse than the electric chair if you know what really happens. i obviously am not a proponent of the death penalty regardless of the way it is carried out. the system is messed up, but it is the best "system" possible given nothing in a "system" can be done on a case by case basis allowing for all sorts of exceptions and such. i am not saying there is not room for improvement, but look around the world, things are much worse for defendants. moreover, just look at how many times dna has exonerated people who confessed because they effectively were so broken down, they had no choice. (something you addressed a bit.) they do what they have to do to get the result they want especdially when it is a more serious offense or it triggers the felony-murder or felony-conspiracy charges and presumably penalties. it truly sickens me to my stomach.
they are worse than the doctors who get you hooked then abandon you for being an addict which is low given the hypocratic oath. then again, it was named that for a reason! LOL! actually, they are about equal given the nature of the medical profession's contribution to society vs. the police's. the police is just another military organization with a strong brotherhood bond which causes many of the problems with the system to start with. boy...this stuff can really steam me up...if you could not tell by the stream of consciousness-didactic writing and thinking exhibited herein along with a lack of sleep. but, still i could go on and on...! we all can!
thanks for your comments though as it is helpful to be sure i am understood as i intended to be. hope it clarifies what i meant. if not, send me a pm to address it more. sorry i am all over the place in my comments but i am editing here, there and everywhere, and i need a nap as i have yet to sleep at all for the night. not to mention my grammar and run-ons. i will not make an excuse for not using caps properly as it is a style thing for me!
lol! my dogs are so annoyed i never went to the bedroom they keep moving about huffing and puffing to convey their frustrations. take care. be well and stay well. peace and safety always!
