Plants in trouble, out of time! Need to get this taken care of Today!

[Lusi]

Hey folks... I've been researching various lights for months and had just narrowed it down to a 600W Air cooled light kit with a digital ballast for HPS and MH. I thought I had another day on this, not realizing Thanksgiving is this week. Still, no panic... until I visited my 2 indoor flowering girls existing under my 150W HPS. This time, I didn't get in there until the HPS light was off for the night, planning to try my new spray and grow. Oh crap, that HPS hides yellow leaves and problems in its yellow light! Caterpillars on one plant, white flies, black flying gnats, and spider mites on the one next to it!! It was about 1am at that time!! (It's 0330 now)

I'm writing this as all of the dirty water is draining from the tub. Yup, these 2 had a soapy bath soak while in full bloom. I have pics, but no time tonight/ this morning... and explain why and such. For now, I have to get these lights shipped today! I hope the PO runs on Friday, in case it's not possible. We're below freezing tonight, so all the outdoor plants are now in the living room with no light! The "forecast" said no temps below 38, until today. :-( Frustration!!!!

Can you guys help me with these final choices for my lights? I was a salesman before the other careers and know how easy it is to make a hunk of junk sound like the most wonderful item in the world. I fear falling for this trick too! I have my credit card ready to roll as soon as I know what to get.

#1 seems good because it appears to have (doesn't mean it does) a cool tube inside a closed cool reflector. Digital ballast that does MH and HPS. $309 Heat is an issue, I think I'll need a window AC unit no matter what I get.
600 Watt HPS Grow Light Digital Ballast Cool Hood Kit GrowAce.com

#2 seems the same but with only the air cooled hood, no cool tube. I don't even know which is better, cool tube or cool hood. Ack! $269
600 Watt HPS Grow Light Air Cooled Hood Kit - Access Hydroponic.com - Your LED Grow Lights source

#3 has the same as above, no inner cool tube, but an extra MH bulb. The place selling this makes no sense. $319
600 Watt MH HPS Grow Light Ballast Air Cooled Reflector-::-Gardening Equipment-::-TheLaShop

#4 I just found. This is the only set they have that does MH and HPS for the 600W. I don't understand... Both the 600W and more so the switchable 400/ 600W sound good, the switchable one would be my picl of the two. not sure if it has everything I need like the other sets. With the added LumenAir 6 reflector, $315.
Discount Hydroponics - NextGen Digital Lighting

Can someone shed a light on which to get? Best value for the $! I know there is some fine print in there that is lost on me.... that's how sales works. I had been sitting here and debating all day on those lights, now 15 hours on this evil computer, before I found my last 2 flowering girls in trouble. How in the heck did something fly in here and lay caterpillar eggs?! Argh! Spider mites were not as bad on the other one.

I want to make sure the winner comes with ballast, cord, reflector, bulb, and socket... might be missing something else here to have it ready to go. Ducting is at least easy to get.

On top of the light choice, can I have some opinions on putting these likely still buggy plants in the new tent or in the garage? Originally, these two were to go in the test. Dangit! I'll have to explain the tent and why I'm going with the 600W later. I'll have more light and tent than I actually need. Luv tomatoes and flowers... hehe

I'll add pics tomorrow after the doc stares at me and does nothing useful but give more drugs. It's now 4am.... that's how slow I 2 finger type!

I know I'll get razzed about drowning these in a bath of soapy water, soil pot and all. I'll explain that one later too... for anyone reading this for help of their own.

Time to lock the girls in the bathroom to dry so the cats don't eat them up. TY for the emergency help!!!!! Ack 0430!! Why do I write so slow!!!!!!

Lusi

 

[datrippp]

as for the light, dont screw around because youll regret it later. Take it from somone who knows, lol.. The 600w is perfect, but I would spend a few xtra bucks, and get a lumatek digital ballast. you can buy a cheaper one, but keep in mind you get what you pay for. I purchased a standard magnetic budget ballast last february, well the budget ran out in october when the capacitor blew up inside it from a small power outage/surge. so my girls went 2 weeks in the middle of flower with only a 150w hps. to say the least, it made a difference, with a small yield, real small. lol.. But last month I ordered a lumatek 600w. The nice thing is, a 5year warranty, I can run either MH, or HPS. and I can do either 400w, or 600w and it has the super lumens switch for the last couple weeks of flower. Even if you just order the ballast with a basic hood, I got the econo wing reflector with it. Oddly enough, for the reflector being a cheapie, it seems to work great. I will upgrade my reflectors after another grow or 2. But think about it, you deffinately wont regret starting with a great ballast that will last, & last.. Now I veg under a MH, and when its time to go 12-12 I just swap bulbs, and put in the HPS bulb.

 

[Droopy Dog]

+ rep datrippp!!!

+1 on the Lumatek 600w. Buy quality, cry once.

I use HTG (High Tech Garden) the most and their customer service is great. Very important if you have problems down the road.

DD

 

[datrippp]

Thnx droopy
ya, I learned the hard way, if you can avoid the lesson, I would recommend it. lol. plus its nice to have 1 ballast for both light spectrums, and i like having the choice of using a 400w mh, then a 600w hps. Im gonna start a grow journal on a lemon skunk grow very soon. Ill keep pics updated as I go.

 

[Lusi]

Thanks guys.... Lumatek sounds nice, but is not Dual Voltage for the 600W at HTG. I plan on moving back to Europe in 5 years and really need the dual!

I need a direct link to what kit to buy. There isn't any time left to buy or research any more. It's already too late today to get this light shipped. My girls will all be dead from no light by Monday of next week!

If you see a complete light system with the Lumatek that IS dual volt for the 600W and also Switchable, please post a link!! Otherwise, I have to get something else. It's just too late!!! The girls haven't had more than a few hours outside for the past week. Time's up!

TY for the help!

 

[Lusi]

Well, I dearly hope I got a good deal and bought the right thing. Discount HydroP said their Next Gen ballast was better than Lumatek, quieter, cooler (2 fans) more output and able to put far away from the reflector. They claimed they get much less returned NGs than the Lumatex... They also said the 600W is dual volts and their website in wrong. Better fix it, that kept me from shopping there!

I decided to visit the local Hydro store and asked if they would match prices to DH. They said yes, and they can have it for me tomorrow. Here's what I got:

Lumatek 600W Switchable dual voltage ballast (reg price $249)
Xtrasun 6" A/C Reflector (reg $104)
1000Wbuld (I think they wrote it wrong reg price $65)
____________
$314 plus tax, $25 or so. No shipping or wait!

Is this a good deal? Is there anything missing here that I need to plug this baby in and use?

I have a dual timer and yoyos already.

I also ordered the Technaflora starter kit for $32.50, a mistake on the bill says $22.95. Maybe I'll get lucky. I chose this kit only because it was the only company out there with a starter kit. Everyone tells me to get my nutes from the same line and just follow the instructions. The Fox Farm individual nutes are so much $$! I hope the TchF is good. Heck, ANYTHING is better to the miracle grow tomato food, the only tomato food sold in this area!

Is there anything I missed?

On top of that, the owner is giving grow classes and there is one on Friday. :-D He was extremely helpful and not pushy. I'm glad to give him my business!

He told me about the CA heat... does this sound accurate, those of you with a 600W light? He said that even in the winter with the tent exhaust going back into a large bedroom, with an open door and window, will heat up to 100 degrees in minutes. He said at a minimum I have to exhaust the light heat into the attic or crawl space. Better still to have the intake from outside. I'll need an AC until otherwise. He said I must keep the heat to 72 degrees, then gave me a scale of how much less yield I'd get for each degree higher, even 78 is too hot?

He also sells this pyrethrin fogger that can be used up until the day of harvest because it breaks down. However, it's $25 for one use!! i see it is the same online. I'm hoping that by plant dunking took care of the bugs. Sounds like I'll have to do it again in 3 days since the eggs will hatch. Yuck. The 2 plants have recovered and still look good!

TY for the advice on the Lumatek. It's odd that most of the places online selling this do not have the 600W dual volts. This error kept me from going with Lumatek in the 1st place! I'm glad my plants will have light and time to finish growing. Heck, that lamp will heat most of my house, great since the heater is broken! LOL

 

[Lusi]

One caterpillar didn't drown. :-(((((( The spider mite eggs are left, mites are gone. I guess I'll be buying that can of fogger after all. I wish I knew how long a bug could hold it's breath!

 

[datrippp]

good choice with the lumatek. we did a test, and discount hydro told us the same about the lumatek, so we called back later and said we was interested in the nextgen and they said the exact same thing about it as they did the lumatek. So we went with the lumatek, and a different hydro store that didnt just say what you want to hear so they can make a sale. lol.. But youll be happy you went with a lumatek, the next gen's are great to, But side by side heat and quietness is equal. I just like all the options you get with one ballast on the lumateks.. hope everything works out for you, keep on growin...

 

[Lusi]

Hi DT! TY for your good advice. I was planning to order one of the discount systems, and was just curious about the other offers from DH. I still don't know why so many sellers have the lumatek and not dual Volts for the 600W.

I hate that selling tact, telling what you want to hear. It pisses me off! I never did that to people when I sold things, thus my reputation as honest spread. It's one thing to write up you items to look wonderful, another to change your facts to make people happy. :-(((((

What size area do you have your Lumatek in? Is it true that the 600W is too big for my 4x4 tent and I'll never keep it cool? The space in there is huge... to me. I visualize all of the MJ and tomatoes growing together in that space.

The lumatek I have dials down to 350W or up past 600W. I'm still looking up info to see if this is done with one 600W bulb or needs a lower W bulb to dial down. The whole thing is going for a test run in the garage until my outside gals are truly ready for harvest and the 2 inside are, if ever, are pest free. He did say bug sprays that break down after a few hours or days in light are perfectly fine for the buds about done?! Said these sprays do not soak into the plant, just break down on the surface. leaving nothing to effect the taste of the bud. After all, we spray our veggies up top the day of harvest... still taste fine. Since caterpillars are taking over everything now, I've had to harvest more buds before their time. The plants are going to spend some time in the bath tub and get coated with BT. I'm seeing no actual mites on any of them, but there are certainly eggs! I'll try either neem or soap, whichever is the most likely to break down. I've already discovered bud rot is a fungus in the air. Soaking my buds in tubs of soapy water has not harmed the plants or the trichs. I remain bud rot free. It's either soak em, spray em, or lose my immature buds. Nothing there to lose! I passed on the fogger. I Would have to buy 3 of these to kill of mites and eggs. It doesn't kill caterpillars. :-(

The grow class is Friday, I hope to learn more on whatever subject is covered. Meanwhile, I hope to hell i can learn a bit about that light before cramming it in a 4x4 tent! I have a few people telling to buy T5s or LEDs. They even cost more than this HPS light set up. The sales guys did say that a huge open room with windows and doors open are not enough to vent the 600W. Will but a hole in the floor for the out vent. Since you seem to have recently been through all of the light set up, do you have any suggestions?

Back to my plant baths in the bath tub. Boy this sucks!! Organic growing for a newbie is looking like a bad idea too. I think it is more something to strive for with experience!

have a nice turkey day!

 

[datrippp]

Thx Lusi, as for heat, yes in a 4x4 tent youll have alot of heat. I had mine in a big 6x6x6 tent we built in the 8x12 spare room and the temps got high in the upper 80s if we didnt have the ac. now we just use the floor section of the tent, in the spare room. we just have a buget light hood for now, a nice air cooled hood like the yield master at better grow hydro would deffinately help. as for the multiple wattage switch, you have to use the coresponding bulb for the wattage selected. the super lumens is only for the highest rated bulb, mine is 600w so for the last 2-3 weeks of flower switch to the super lumen setting as long as you have a 600w bulb in and it is suppose to give them a blast of xtra lumens.. We'll see. lol.. So far Im loving this ballast.
also, mines dual volt and I got it at better grow hydro, heres a link
600W Lumatek Digital Ballast - 120/240V | Grow Light Ballast Assemblies
this is what I ordered..

 

[Lusi]

Oh dear.... I have it set at 400 with a 600 bulb! Can you take a pic of your ballast control for dimable? I only see the knob for the 350, 400, 600, super, plus two buttons for reset. I must be missing something here!

I don't know what I paid for the individual ballest.... just $315 for the set which included the 6" AC hood and a cheap 600W bulb. ($65) I'll look again...

My new tent has a ripped seam, so now the plants are still in the cold garage and homeless. I'll move them into a bedroom tonight since there will be no tent to contaminate. In the cool weather, will the trichs break down when the plant is too cold to mature? No one has answered my harvest question yet... I'm confused with the trichs being clear to amber on each bud. I need max couch lock and sleep.

TY for the light help!!!

 

[Lusi]

I double checked the ballast. It claims it is both dimable and switchable. Can't find the instructions.

 

[datrippp]

Hey Lusi, sorry I missed the harvest trich question. lol.. Been trying my homegrown lemon skunk. anyway, for more couchlock, you wait a bit longer, average harvest is anywhere from 30%-50% amber, the less amber, the less couchlock, the more amber the more couchlock. And it will also depend on strain, but if you want a good harvest time for sleeping type couchlock, wait till youve got about 60-80% amber trich's.
for the ballast dimming issue, you would run your 600w bulb on the 400w setting. you just cant run a 400 at the 600 setting. lol..
Hope it helps.. keep on growing. Theres not a better high, or feeling than getting pain relief from your own grown medicine..

 

[datrippp]

heres a small pic of my room, and current project plants. These girls were almost given up on, after they rooted as clones. they had a PH issue, and had some stunted growth from a bad week of sudden cold temps at night of around 56 degree F. But I figured screw it, and kept them. theres 5 lemon skunk, and 4 L.S.D.

these are more of a last minute decision to flower em out. Right now they're in veg for about 2 more weeks, then Ill go 12-12 with em.

 

[Lusi]

Hey, ty again. now I get it about the Lumatek. Does it harm a 600W bulb at 360?
I sure wish I could tell about my harvest. Do the entire tricks turn amber or just the heads? I don't want to leave the harvest out there too long either! I'm moving that 600W and the outdoor plants into an empty bedroom. I hope I can keep the heat down enough in there! I'm never ordering from BGH again after this fiasco with my tent. I bought everything as a kit from them, tent, fan filter, etc. There's a rip in the tent and the duct is smashed. They will only pay for the return shipping of the tent and duct, not the rest of the kit. Since I put the tent, fan, filter together and already drilled the holes in the filter to attach the flange, they won't take back the filter, which is part of the kit. Now I'm out $100 shipping to get the defective kit and return it. I was going to order another tent from them, but now will buy one from any one but them! I don't know if I can revive my plants to finish til harvest after they had a week in the cold garage!

Your girls don't look so bad! Maybe you can put the taller 3 in a larger pot, then bury them up a foot to the leaves. You'd get more roots then? I don't know if that slows growth or not while the plant grow roots. I've been wondering this since I did it. If I can find the photo of my dead girl before the grew into one of my best plants, I'll show it. I almost threw her in the compost heap. LOL I look forward to raising a healthy plant to what it can do. Is that your lumatek and 600Wm bulb? I like that hood and would have gone for it if it had been possible to use with a cool tube. That's a huge room, I'm jealous!

Uh, gotta sleep that cookie was a bit too strong...

 

[PetFlora]

In case you haven't pulled the string on a new light, the actual dimensions of my Quantum T5 is 46 X 23.5

also light requirements are a factor of physical space. Ideally you want `40 lumens per sq foot. In the tent you are using, 250- to a max of 400 HID, or a ~200 watt LED

 

[datrippp]

yes, thats my lumatek, and just a midgrade bulb. I do have the lumatek high par bulb, But its waiting for my lemon skunk clones to be ready. Im gonna take clones tonight. Yes, you can put it on 360 with the 600w bulb, it just dims it a bit, and extends the bulb life. I use a 400w MH for veg, just a cheap one from Home depot, and the 600w for flower. Thanks for the compliments, but like I said these were just kinda a last minute decision to keep and flower. I could do like you say, and transplant the taller ones, but Im gonna just run em in the 2gal. pots theyre in for now. lol.. Im really gonna focus on my nxt grow plan, which will be 5 Lemon skunk, and 5 L.S.D. in 4 gal square buckets, each batch of 5 plants will be under a 600w light, and Im gonna really try to push for a bigger yield, so I have enough to get through another grow. Im thinking of maybe writing a very detailed grow journal/Book on going from cutting of the mother, to the rolling of a big fatty. lol..
By the way Lusi, Sorry for the trouble from BGH, I to have had issues from them, but they have finally taken care of me. If you decide to give them one more chance, Ive just been calling my orders in, instead of online ordering and have been much happier with them. Also, I call and only work with Janet, Shes been wonderfull. Its nice to be able to get everything at one shop, but if you keep having problems then it really dont matter. Hope you get it all resolved.

 

[Lusi]

Hi guys, here's another Lusi book for ya,

PF, I already have the light, a 600W HPS. It can dial down to 400or 360 if need be. The tent maker says to put a 400W or 600W in here. The footprint for the 600 better covers the area as I'm sending the 4x4 tent in for a 3x5. I just can't reach the 4x4 space without back pain from help.Well, the tent came ripped too. :-( I went with the Lumaktek since people rec. it. If I end up with a larger space some day, I can use the 600, then other lights in the tent. Depends if I have an luck growing inside.

How as a 4' T-5 bulb fitting in a 46" space?! I looked up the Bad Boy kit and it said 47 3/4 inches. WTF? If this light fails to work, at least I can send it back for another. My book says 50 lumens per sq foot is enough, 60 is ideal ideal?? SO much info conflicts about these things. The 600 falls in that range.

DT,

I forgot your plants were from clone. I see a plant and think seed $$$$. LOL From clones that were outside, i guess you have only lost time, no money. I tried 2 clones. Both of these and also my male plant are growing mutant single leaves. I still have 30 seeds or so to plant, plus I pollinated a few pistils of my white skunk and shiva shanti with shiva shanti male. i figured if I like a strain it's easier to save or cross it this way. I can take a clone or two off each down the road, if I find one that kills the pain.

Have you tried the LST or SCROG yet? I'm still tossed up to do a SOG with clones later on and keep them small like the grow class fellow suggested, or take more time to train each plant for better yield per plant. My 2 trained plants outside really kicked out a lot of buds for being only 24" in main stem length. He said figuring in the time spent, light and power cost used for them compared to yield, SOG is the only method making sense. More time to grow = more $$ on electricity and nutes. It makes sense if cost per plant isn't a concern. I'll try every way I can think of (over a loong time frame) and go with what works.

I'm frustrated with BGH, but spoke with Nancy again today. She said she'll try to work this out to keep me as a customer. Naturally, I just found out I need a minimum of 312cfm fan to cool that light and the tent today. The kit comes with a 123cfm!!? I now have to return the entire thing, but am willing to buy the new set up from BGH if no extra shipping charges. The tent, ducting, and scope are all damaged. :-( It's absurd to pay shipping for all of this 3 times. Hopefully, this will work out. I'll keep Janet's name, and I completely agree to order things by phone. I usually do, but placed the internet order on a Sunday when they were closed. I found all of these items cheaper for free shipping and no tax in CO in case it doesn't work with BGH. I still need PH down since they don't carry that. Lemon juice ain't working. LOL

If you get a chance, can you look at my harvest question? No one has answered since I put better photos up. The buggy gals are now happy in the bedroom under the lamp at 400W. No heat issue at all so far! I watered them with a bit of thrive hoping they will continue to mature once they are warm and watered. I'm keeping them like this until I know if they are heady to harvest. They're 8-10 weeks in flower now. Curses to the forum owner in elsewhere that told me to harvest early Oct. Half my buds are no good since too early. They've been growing for 6 months! LOL
1st grow, ready to harvest yet?

I need to post my smaller gals in the sick plant area. I've run out of ideas why the leaves look so yellow and odd. Nutrient issue, but so many look the same. I finally killed off the caterpillars with BT and the mites by soaking the plants in the soapy tub twice in 3 days. The grow shop guy said I can spray up to a few days before harvest if the spray says it's OK for edibles. I ran out of pyrethrin which he said is the best bug killer out there. I've used it for years plants, me, and the animals. We're still alive. He also said to not use neem oil inside. The oil will fry the leaves, even after a day of no light. He said the Azomax and other refined neem oil products are safe. I certainly have a life time supply now. Save it for veggy garden next year. I need to transcribe the notes from that class before I forget what they mean. LOL! All of this spraying or not while in flower info is driving me mad! I have to admit my veggies in the past never tasted like bug killer if given 24 hours after spraying it. WHy worry about the MJ?

Thanks for explaining the lumatek better for me! I really like that i can use other W bulbs and also dim this one. The grow class guy said it makes no difference to veg under a MH vs an HPS, none of the light info really matters, they'll grow a bit further between nodes for the HPS. Is any of that true? I want to set up a perpetual grow, but the vegging would go even better under the stronger MH or HPS bulb. Ack, this is all giving me a headache!! Gotta put my fake air pot together to test, then sleep. thanks again!

Darn it! How can I thoroughly answer things without writing a huge book? This is also frustrating!

 

[Lusi]

Hi DT!

I just spoke to Janet at BGH. She was wonderful and fixed everything for me! I'll gladly deal with her in the future. Thanks for the tip. :-D