PH Down - Nitric, Phosphoric, Sulfuric or Citric acid

[rhetorrikz]

After some reading these seem like the ph down options?
Ive been using nutrifield ph down which i think is nitric acid, it seems i have a nitrogen sensitive strain and is it possible the ph down is another thing contributing to excess nitrogen ?
Does anyone know which ph down uses phosphoric acid ?
Flairform i think is citric acid based?
And sulfuric is battery acid and im not really sure about using that?

 

[SolMJ]

Hey rh, I think your right in that nitric gives more n. Phosphoric acid provides phosphour. I use phosphoric acid throughout the whole grow but sometimes vinegar instead. Since they need more n during veg & more phosphour during flower its worth trying nitric acid early on before swapping later. In your case if you an n sensitive plant then use vinegar & see how they react. I grow in soil btw. Good luck.

 

[vy001]

I've heard of some people using lemon juice.

 

[rhetorrikz]

From what ive read both lemon juice and vinegar seem to work. i think citric acid or lemon juice is less stable , ph shifts quicker. Vinegar is made from mother of vinegar fermented / bubbled with bacteria im not sure if long term use would be great but short term it may give plants the break they need .. the nitric acid tacks time to break down into plant available nitrogen tho so it may not be a instant fix either. Which phosphoric ph down do you use? A food grade or a labled ph down product?
I typically use around 20-25 drops of the nf ph down to 10L.
Is this really enough to be worried about changing?

 

[vy001]

I use Essential Hydroponics PH Down which contains phosphoric acid. I'm UK based though. Are you using hydro or soil?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Basically PH up/down will break down over time into its base element of nutrient.

Nitric is used for veg & phosphoric for flowering.

Citric is way to weak to offer any stable holdings not sure about vinegar but i would myself avoid these like the plague... it just don't seem right to me.


Anyway as far as i'm concern PH up/down is used for hydroponic water based systems or with inert growing mediums.

Soil/compost mix's are in general self buffering in nature PH wise & should return to ambient PH level of soil/compost with in 24 hours after watering/feeding with out any detrimental effect to your plants.



Anyway besides the point...

If you think you have nitrogen sensitive plant, i may question if you feeding nutrients at present & at what dosage on stage of growth.... it could just be strain related issue where the strain grown is a light feeder or just a darker green in leaf than others before things get really complicated.

 

[rhetorrikz]

Thanks for the replys guys! I grow in coco btw . Notice the center plant from bag seed is a nicer colour / likes the feed better. Iv found some 85% phosphoric acid ph down locally which will be good to try. Also my calmag has been playing on my mind also its 2.0.0 seems to have alot of nitrogen and calcium but not much magnesium. I can see some faint lighter colouring between the veins, which i think is telling me "more mag please" ? So ive up potted them and substituted calmax with epsom salt .. hope im on the right track

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Interesting pic & looks like a few things going on their !

Epsom salts can be desolved in to water & applied that way also.

Is that a brand name bag of coco coir ? if so it should be pre treated over coir which is purchased as brick & needs breaking up.

Also what other nutrients are you using ?


You can get specific coco nutrients tho

 

[rhetorrikz]

FD ive been using canna coco and canna coco nutes 1ml per liter yeah i desolved the epsom in with the feed and some cannazym i also sprinkled some great white powdered bennies in their new pots as they were transplanted.
They look a bit happier , the strange leaf growth on the left 2 plants is from attempted fim, tried to slow them down a bit. The 2 clones on the right were over watered early on and that stunted root growth but i see some new growth now . And this is the light colouring between the veins
Thanks for checking on em let me know what your thinking

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

Ye this is a tough one ?

The four on left look like they have had a good dose of nitrogen the single plant in the middle looks fine but the the two small ones on the right look slightly messed up.

Mmm done brief check on canna coco feed it seems you are doing a half rate feed at the moment but not to sure how often you are feeding which may cause a minor problem ?

Not seen any info on PH correcting nutrient/water solution yet ? could be an issue if left unchecked as coco coir is generally classed as inert & needs to be treated in the same area as hydroponic water based systems PH value of nutrients/water.


Mmm cannazym, not really into that idea at present for stage of growth as the plants are still growing into pot size & basically deals with breaking down dead plant matter, more likely practical for keeping a mother plant or reusing the growing medium.

May suggest rhizotonic at this stage tho...


Leaf def is hard to define as some may show common traits between one & another which takes a fine eye to know such plus extra info but may suspect Mg - magnesium problem knowing common problems with coco coir ! (all early stage)

May suggest getting a trace mix by canna to help out tho, these are mainly a wide range of micro nutrients which can help out during the grow but not over sure if they do a specific Ca/Mg blend for coir grows even tho individual bottles of such nutrients can be avialable from canna but requires extra care & attention.

 

[rhetorrikz]

Tap water @ 110ppm ph down to 5.9 after nutes added .. usually about 22-25 drops of the nf ph down to 10L. about to swap to the phosphoric acid. I was adding grotek calmax @1ml pL, its 2.0.0 so i swaped to epsom 1tbls to 10L due to excess nitrogen . Feed every 2nd day canna coco @ 1ml pL which is half the recomended rate for this growth stage. Ok rhizo not zym for these little ones. Got it. Doesnt seem canna do a trace element mix i think its all inc. in the a+b?. Light is a 2ft 2 bulb t5ho 110w 6500k
FD Do you add plain ph water in your hempys ? Maybe i should give them a plain ph water flush every few days? Whats your schedule at this stage?

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

I'm pretty sure A & B will have the best of the essential nutrients plus other bit 'n' bobs in it, it is just a habit of mine to always bolster the grow with a trace micro nutrient solution along with my grow/bloom nutrients but not always essential but an individual choice.

Canna do offer single bottles of one type of nutrients as to formulate you own feeding requirements... you can get a bottle of N or P & K to make up your ratio of feed including Mg plus others includes trace mix... getting hold of em depends on grow shop you use or finding one & may take a little looking around.

Most common problems with coco coir will be Ca & Mg but i'm reasonable sure most coir specific nutrients should have added Ca/Mg to counter the problem as far as i'm aware ?

Providing the problem is not progressing further it would suggest it has been solved but damaged leafs general will stay that way & not recover... slightly different case with nitrogen tho.


Ah i see ya doing a coco hempy & full of new surprises

I don't use plain PH water or adjusted in between feeds as when i ran the last hempy grow i tried this in flowering but it only caused nitrogen def plus a lot of leaf drop, once i had corrected the leafs where much happy & stayed on the girls.

I would more likely not worry about flushing in less a serve problem was expected as by the act of feeding/watering & the way hempys work you are technical flushing to balance the PH & nutrients of the mini res plus medium used as you just need to get suitable run off around 25% to readdress the balance.


Mmm schedule will always be an individual learning curve, a big area to cover !

Pots look like 2 liter / half gallon at best may be perhaps double size the from given pics, now a plant that size is not going to be a heavy feeder or drinker, drinker or quick drying out might well be related to total temp & the loss of moisture through evapouration & of course plant size.

More likely could get away with readdressing PH & nutrient balance twice a week whilst in veg.

Not sure if you are going to pot up into larger hempys for flowering ?

But with flowering readdressing PH/nutrients may have to be done every other day to keep things sweet.


Mmm lights ah, may need those around 6 inch or 15 cm from the tip of the plants for optimal growth... HO or high out put tubes may cause light burn if any closer but must consider the inverse law of light effect & diminishing returns over distance.