The Organic Way: Soil Science 101

conradino23 said:
The secret is simple ;) Add hyperaccumulators and leaves from the trees to your compost pile. Inoculate your plants with mycorrhizae in early stage. Use beneficial bacteria like lactobacillus acidophilus or bacillus subtilis, and never use any strong fertilizers, especially nothing high in potassium or phosphorus.
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Damn, there goes my first attempt then I reckon lol. I've already added chicken manure pellets and loads of other stuff (I think either bonemeal or fish. blood and bone had the high Potassium and Phosphorus too). I thought I just had to add plenty of everything and leave nature to take it's course. What does this do, slow the process down or does it affect other things too? I'm not bothered if it's slowed as it's going to be left in the tumbler for quite awhile I think (still adding daily household waste) but if it's something else then I suppose it could be fixed?

I'm not sure that I added any particular bacteria but 'lactobacillus acidophilus' rang a bell so I googled it and it is one of the beneficial bacteria produced when fermenting Kefir. I make Kefir as it helps to settle my IBS, so could I throw some Kefir in the compost for this? I was under the impression that milk was a nono (or most liquids) from what I read so I hadn't bothered with it. I'm not sure if anyone has heard of Kefir here but it's a symbiosis of bacteria and yeast that breaks down the lactose and sugars in milk to ferment it into a sort of soured milk cross yoghurt. Admittedly I did try and use some around the wife's tomato plants but I have no idea whether it worked or not. It did work well in getting me some earache for a day or two though :)
 
Ok, I'm gonna try to answer this as simply as it's possible. Cannabis is a non-fruit giving plant, which means it flowers, that's it. Potassium is a nutrient that is needed mostly by heavy crops: potatoes, tomatoes, apples, cherries and so on, cause it builds their tissue, also cortex in trees.

Cannabis has much lower need for potassium, actually raising its levels will make your terpenes production go down, it will also promote fibre production, it might be also counterproductive to achieving high THC. Instead of much potassium cannabis thrives in soil with high calcium and magnesium content, which is what High Brix grows take advantage of cause these nutrients compete with potassium in soil through cation channels. As far as phosphorus is concerned cannabis uses it only to trigger flowering, build roots and carry other nutrients from the soil. Phosphorus doesn't build flowers! Unfortunately using mycorrhizae with fertilizers rich in phosphorus doesn't mix well as mycos will slow down their reproduction over 80 ppm in soil and completely stop over 130 ppm, thus giving your roots a hard time. Also bacteria prefer feeding on calcium and magnesium. In other words using heavy fertlizers like bloodmeal, bonemeal and bat guano is totally unnecessary in LOS types of grows. The only way it works is if you're working on improving yield at any cost, but it's a double-edged sword cause you're also lowering the quality that way, and I know cause I've been there.
 
conradino23 said:
Ok, I'm gonna try to answer this as simply as it's possible. Cannabis is a non-fruit giving plant, which means it flowers, that's it. Potassium is a nutrient that is needed mostly by heavy crops: potatoes, tomatoes, apples, cherries and so on, cause it builds their tissue, also cortex in trees.

Cannabis has much lower need for potassium, actually raising its levels will make your terpenes production go down, it will also promote fibre production, it might be also counterproductive to achieving high THC. Instead of much potassium cannabis thrives in soil with high calcium and magnesium content, which is what High Brix grows take advantage of cause these nutrients compete with potassium in soil through cation channels. As far as phosphorus is concerned cannabis uses it only to trigger flowering, build roots and carry other nutrients from the soil. Phosphorus doesn't build flowers! Unfortunately using mycorrhizae with fertilizers rich in phosphorus doesn't mix well as mycos will slow down their reproduction over 80 ppm in soil and completely stop over 130 ppm, thus giving your roots a hard time. Also bacteria prefer feeding on calcium and magnesium. In other words using heavy fertlizers like bloodmeal, bonemeal and bat guano is totally unnecessary in LOS types of grows. The only way it works is if you're working on improving yield at any cost, but it's a double-edged sword cause you're also lowering the quality that way, and I know cause I've been there.
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OK thanks for that simplified write up which is good for people like me Conradino :thumb:

I did add lime, eggshells and mussel shells for the calcium and magnesium so maybe they'll stabilize it a touch. One thing that has me perplexed though (please bear in mind that I've never grown organically before apart from one failed attempt years ago in my garden where I salvaged one 2" carrot and have never composted), using the nutrient lines as I have been doing I'm expected to add PK 13/14 in week three of flowering. Yet from what I've just read this should in fact be counter productive, yet pretty much everyone that grows the same way insists that it should be used. Is this a myth or is it necessary in non organic grows?

Also has anyone any ideas about adding Kefir into the compost? Would this be beneficial or harmful? Thanks again.
 
Nothing is really necessary in LOS grows except keeping the soil alive. High potassium and phosphorus in nutes has been pushed by manufacturing companies without any proof it would benefit a plant that's been growing for thousand of years in the wild with minimal nutrient demands. Lay them off, stop pre-fertilizing your soil, start measuring your Brix, do smell/taste tests, and you'll see a totally new world!
 
You're heading in the right direction Kriaze.
Don't go getting too far into the weeds just yet pal. Keep it simple and take things one step at a time my friend.
:thumb:
 
Thanks for the input Conradino about the HighBrix methods. Much appreciated.
:thanks:
 
I wish it was that easy for someone like me Conradino. Unfortunately even a google search of Brix doesn't help me as this is what I find : Degrees Brix (symbol °Bx) is the sugar content of an aqueous solution. One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by mass

Yeah, I guess some of us may be lost causes when it comes to organic. Trust me I'm not dumb in general but when it comes to organic growing I am probably at the bottom of the ladder, I'm trying to climb slowly but surely but with all the conflicting information I read it's like one step up and two steps down.

I think for now I'll just stick to nutrients and pre bought soil and see what happens in spring with the compost I'm trying to make (if that even succeeds in becoming compost). Then I'll try a seed or two and see if they grow, if they do it will be a bonus. Thanks for the input but I'm now more lost than ever :thumb:
 
UncleCannabis said:
You're heading in the right direction Kriaze.
Don't go getting too far into the weeds just yet pal. Keep it simple and take things one step at a time my friend.
:thumb:
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We must have been typing at the same time UncleCannabis. I wish there was a user friendly way of getting into organics but I'm only just learning to grow anyway so I may be best just taking things one slow step at a time. Anyways one thing that's come good of trying to step into the arena so to speak is that I'm now throwing my daily household waste into a composter instead of a landfill. It's a step in the right direction in that regard at least.

Damn I feel so fkin dumb right now grrr. Time for a shower, a pipe then off to buy the missus her pressie for tomorrow. All the best fellas :thumb:
 
Ok, what Brix scale measures in simplest terms are carbohydrates (made of carbon and hydrogen) that your plants is producing at the moment of testing! We accept a fact at the moment that when you reach 12 your pests problems drop to zero almost, leaves do not who any microdeficiencies, and they are shiny and waxy, plant is also perky and seems happy :cheesygrinsmiley::tokin: This is one of these things that agricultural industry has been using for years to determine the quality of their produce, and we start doing it now too. Refractometer will also show you if calcium and magnesium are in the right place when line is blurry or if they're lacking with a straight one. It's just a test but helps you to figure general health of your plant. Brix in cannabis are raising when potassium goes down, calcium, magnesium and other microelements also very important go up, and that improves the final produce, smell, taste, plant structure and how it gets you high :thumb:
 
One of the many benefits of organics is that it's very forgiving and doesn't really require a degree in botany or microbiology to get going.

I suggest that you visit a few websites (not just one) that are specifically focused on organic vegetable gardening.
You'll find some really good information all in layman's terms so that the average gardener is able to understand.
This will get you moving in the right direction then you can fine tune your methods later. The pot that you'll grow using basic organic methods for fruit and vegetables will be of an equal or higher quality than most of what is sold as medicinal grade MJ in dispensaries or coffee shops. This can be done without getting too scientific about things.

Once you have the basics down you'll then have enough knowledge behind you that you will be able to make your own educated decisions on which paths you want to take or how you want to tweak things.
This in my opinion is the real joy of gardening. Always keep an open mind and never stop learning.
:peace:
 
Hey guys :) great discussion on organics, nutrients, Brix etc but I think its gone to technical for the intent of the thread. Not to discount anyone's input, very good info being presented and :thanks:

I wrote the article, avoiding technical info, trying to keep it simple and offer the basic ideas of organic soil and composting using supplies that are fairly easy to come by for most.

The reason behind this was to allow people, like my friend Kraize who was interested in becoming an organic gardener, the opportunity to get their feet wet without getting lost and confused by the technical aspects and the more advanced applications :)

I do appreciate the input but it would be much easier for organic "virgins" to get their feet wet if we keep it simple and stick to the basics :)
 
Apologies Celt. I'm the guilty party for luring Conradino into all of this tech speak.
:rollingeyes:
 
I'll make it simple, take some soil from your garden or nearest meadow or forest, add 10-20% compost, and make a full grow in it! If it works you can get further, and I guarantee you it will :slide:
 
I gotta say guys, I'm pretty blown away, and technical or not TheCelt, the information Conradino just dropped here was exactly what I was looking for, so thank you Conradino for consolidating it all right here. WooHoo!! I feel like a kid in a candy store. MagicJim points me to an extensive primer on organic nutrient lines (always good to know where to find the info - not everyone is enlightened), 36Gr0w drops a manual for probiotic no-tills and I find all this.

And you guys wonder why I stay up all night. :laughtwo: The only one of those that was done before midnight was MagicJim.

I'm in awe gentlemen. I stand in awe that this site can produce this much valuable information day after day. Damn!

I am so proud to be accepted among your numbers.
 
conradino23 said:
I'll make it simple, take some soil from your garden or nearest meadow or forest, add 10-20% compost, and make a full grow in it! If it works you can get further, and I guarantee you it will :slide:
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I don't see how it can get any easier than that. Conradino - I'm speechless.

I'm going to bed now. That pipe's been filled and sitting untouched all evening while I read as quickly as I could. Maybe I do grow it to look at it! :laughtwo:

But first, I'm linking this to my journal.

Good night gentleman. :Love:
 
conradino23 said:
I'll make it simple, take some soil from your garden or nearest meadow or forest, add 10-20% compost, and make a full grow in it! If it works you can get further, and I guarantee you it will :slide:
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Good point Conrad :thumb: The things you mentioned earlier in this thread interest me and at some point I would love to pick your brain some more. A never ending quest for knowledge is ingrained deep in me LOL Using Brix readings to determine plant health is something I would like to incorporate into my grows, both cannabis and my gardens at some point as funds allow for new toys/tools LOL
 
conradino23 said:
The secret is simple ;) Add hyperaccumulators and leaves from the trees to your compost pile. Inoculate your plants with mycorrhizae in early stage. Use beneficial bacteria like lactobacillus acidophilus or bacillus subtilis, and never use any strong fertilizers, especially nothing high in potassium or phosphorus.
Click to expand...

This is my recipe ^^^ 110%. I don't even know how NPK or PH relates to growing. We get our vermicompost going and my wife and I spend more time doing composting than any other chore in the gardens. That and ACT really all that we need everything else is bonus.

Get your EWC right and you will have fun in the garden.
 
bobrown14 said:
This is my recipe ^^^ 110%. I don't even know how NPK or PH relates to growing. We get our vermicompost going and my wife and I spend more time doing composting than any other chore in the gardens. That and ACT really all that we need everything else is bonus.

Get your EWC right and you will have fun in the garden.
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You're going to make me do worms again BB. Dammit!! I have to keep them alive his time. :straightface:
 
From Compost Bin to Compost Bin. The Cycle is Complete.

Original All Organic Planting Medium - Several Months Ago
thumb_IMG_0693_1024.jpg


Today
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Don't worry folks, I haven't hit my head on any blunt objects. It's just my way of getting rid of some mother plants and cuttings that are no longer needed.
It was a difficult thing to do but since it had to be done I thought it fitting that they be returned to the place where it all began.
Looks like some of my future girls will be cannibals whether they like it or not. LOL!

Happy gardening friends.
:blunt::peace:
 
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