One or More Plants Die During Every Grow ... What Am I Doing Wrong?

[StudioMan]

OK, all you CannaSleuths ... I'm completely dumbfounded (and frustrated) over the fact that one or more plants die during every grow I've attempted. I get the same results regardless of whether my grow is feminized or autoflower. My setup is as follows:

1. Hydroponic grow using a 16-1/2" wide, 21" long, and 10" deep hydroponic grow box (DWC Hydroponic Grow Box & Lid ~ #12 6 site by H2OtoGro). Four (4) 6-inch air stones with two (2) 19L/min pumps (each pump feeding 2 air stones).
2. . The top of the box has circular cutouts for 6 plants (3 rows of 2 each). The cutouts are equidistant from each other with 10" separating the rows and 8" separating the cutouts in each row. I use 5 of the holes for plants and the remaining hole as an access port for changing out water/nutes. I have tried different combinations of the holes without any success.
3. Grow tent is 4' x 4' x 7'. Besides the in/out fans for overall circulation, there is an additional fan on the floor of the tent for creating a constant breeze/circulation for the plants. Four layers of scrog nets are used for plant distribution and control.
4. Lighting - Two (2) HIGROW Optical Lens-Series 600W Full Spectrum LED Grow Light for Indoor Plants Veg and Flower, Garden Greenhouse Hydroponic Grow Light. (12-Band, 5W/LED)
5. Lighting Schedule -
   1. Feminized - 18 on, 6 off for Veg / 12 on, 12 off for Flowering
   2. Autoflower - 20 on full time throughout the grow
6. Nutes/Other - General Hydroponics Flora Grow, Bloom, Micro Combo Fertilizer Set; General Hydroponics CALiMAGic; General Hydroponics Liquid Kool Bloom; Botanicare HYDROGUARD Bacillus Root Inoculant. PH monitored/adjusted daily.

Now, here's what happens. The veg stage goes smoothly with all five (5) plants growing to approximately the same height and shape. All plants appear "healthy" at that stage. Within the first week or so of flowering however, one or more plants stops growing and the main trunk of those plants becomes "mushy" to the touch (as opposed to the others remaining "firm"). No further growth occurs for those plants and they are basically "toast" without any flowered growth. The remaining, unaffected plants grow to full maturity and have decent resultant yields and quality.

Although the grow box is a professional hydroponic product with the six hole cutouts for plants, I have the feeling that the five (5) plants I attempt to grow create a "too much growth for the allotted space" issue (I do keep the plants trimmed to maintain proper air flow from the underside of the plants). Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, what did you find was the culprit? Are there any other causes for this that might be in play here?

Thanks in advance for your consideration!
... Don

 

[Bill284]

OK, all you CannaSleuths ... I'm completely dumbfounded (and frustrated) over the fact that one or more plants die during every grow I've attempted. I get the same results regardless of whether my grow is feminized or autoflower. My setup is as follows:

1. Hydroponic grow using a 16-1/2" wide, 21" long, and 10" deep hydroponic grow box (DWC Hydroponic Grow Box & Lid ~ #12 6 site by H2OtoGro). Four (4) 6-inch air stones with two (2) 19L/min pumps (each pump feeding 2 air stones).
2. . The top of the box has circular cutouts for 6 plants (3 rows of 2 each). The cutouts are equidistant from each other with 10" separating the rows and 8" separating the cutouts in each row. I use 5 of the holes for plants and the remaining hole as an access port for changing out water/nutes. I have tried different combinations of the holes without any success.
3. Grow tent is 4' x 4' x 7'. Besides the in/out fans for overall circulation, there is an additional fan on the floor of the tent for creating a constant breeze/circulation for the plants. Four layers of scrog nets are used for plant distribution and control.
4. Lighting - Two (2) HIGROW Optical Lens-Series 600W Full Spectrum LED Grow Light for Indoor Plants Veg and Flower, Garden Greenhouse Hydroponic Grow Light. (12-Band, 5W/LED)
5. Lighting Schedule -
   1. Feminized - 18 on, 6 off for Veg / 12 on, 12 off for Flowering
   2. Autoflower - 20 on full time throughout the grow
6. Nutes/Other - General Hydroponics Flora Grow, Bloom, Micro Combo Fertilizer Set; General Hydroponics CALiMAGic; General Hydroponics Liquid Kool Bloom; Botanicare HYDROGUARD Bacillus Root Inoculant. PH monitored/adjusted daily.

Now, here's what happens. The veg stage goes smoothly with all five (5) plants growing to approximately the same height and shape. All plants appear "healthy" at that stage. Within the first week or so of flowering however, one or more plants stops growing and the main trunk of those plants becomes "mushy" to the touch (as opposed to the others remaining "firm"). No further growth occurs for those plants and they are basically "toast" without any flowered growth. The remaining, unaffected plants grow to full maturity and have decent resultant yields and quality.

Although the grow box is a professional hydroponic product with the six hole cutouts for plants, I have the feeling that the five (5) plants I attempt to grow create a "too much growth for the allotted space" issue (I do keep the plants trimmed to maintain proper air flow from the underside of the plants). Has anyone else experienced this problem, and if so, what did you find was the culprit? Are there any other causes for this that might be in play here?

Thanks in advance for your consideration!
... Don

Just curious is the one that dies in the same location each time?
To me it sounds like a root issue.
Do all the sites get the same amount of nutrients and air?




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StudioMan]

is the one that dies in the same location each time?

Thanks for taking your time to respond, Bill. Unfortunately, not the same location ... and sometimes it's more than one that dies. As far as the location of the affected plants go, they do tend to be the ones toward the back of the grow tent ... but that must be sheer coincidence since everything in the tent is symmetrical (e.g., lighting, air circulation, etc.). I've even tried rotating the grow box 90 degrees with each grow but get the same result every time.

 

[Bill284]

Thanks for taking your time to respond, Bill. Unfortunately, not the same location ... and sometimes it's more than one that dies. As far as the location of the affected plants go, they do tend to be the ones toward the back of the grow tent ... but that must be sheer coincidence since everything in the tent is symmetrical (e.g., lighting, air circulation, etc.). I've even tried rotating the grow box 90 degrees with each grow but get the same result every time.

Could it be nutrient volume?
Plants require more nutrient volume in flower.
Does your tubing or anything cause a restriction starving some of the roots?
Or the air lines? Any restrictions?



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Bill284]

Let's get some assistance.
@SmokingWings & @Azimuth & @bluter hey guys
Can you find a cause for this issue?



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Azimuth]

Let's get some assistance.
@SmokingWings & @Azimuth & @bluter hey guys
Can you find a cause for this issue?



Stay safe
Bill284

Thank Bill. This is hydro so out of my experience. I agree with you it seems like a root issue since if it were a lack of nutrients I'd expect all plants to suffer and not sacrifice the worst two.

 

[Bill284]

Thank Bill. This is hydro so out of my experience. I agree with you it seems like a root issue since if it were a lack of nutrients I'd expect all plants to suffer and not sacrifice the worst two.

Thanks Buddy
You ever see that response from a plant?
Going soft like that at the trunk?




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StudioMan]

Could it be nutrient volume?
Plants require more nutrient volume in flower.
Does your tubing or anything cause a restriction starving some of the roots?



Stay safe
Bill284

Once again, good ideas, Bill. And once again, thanks for your thoughtful considerations.

"nutrient volume?"
... I'm a process control freak when it comes to my grows. Everyday when I check PH, I also check TDS PPM readings (no, not Trump Derangement Syndrome ... ) and adjust nute concentrations accordingly. Young, established seedlings are started at 500-600 ppm. The TDS is increased to 800-900ppm during peak vegetative growth. Then, when in flowering, I maintain 1200-1400 ppm (from experience, I found that exceeding 1400 ppm during flowering causes the tips of the plant leaves to turn "off yellow" (nute burn?).

"tubing or anything cause a restriction"
... The four tubes running from the pumps to the air stones are checked regularly for any constrictions. I even peek in the grow box (through the one cutout that I use as an access port) periodically to check the volume of air bubbles generated by the air stones. There is constantly a steady and strong stream of bubbles. In addition, I use Botanicare HYDROGUARD Bacillus Root Inoculant to prevent root rot (and have never seen the first evidence of any in any of my grows).

 

[Bill284]

Once again, good ideas, Bill. And once again, thanks for your thoughtful considerations.

"nutrient volume?"
... I'm a process control freak when it comes to my grows. Everyday when I check PH, I also check TDS PPM readings (no, not Trump Derangement Syndrome ... ) and adjust nute concentrations accordingly. Young, established seedlings are started at 500-600 ppm. The TDS is increased to 800-900ppm during peak vegetative growth. Then, when in flowering, I maintain 1200-1400 ppm (from experience, I found that exceeding 1400 ppm during flowering causes the tips of the plant leaves to turn "off yellow" (nute burn?).

"tubing or anything cause a restriction"
... The four tubes running from the pumps to the air stones are checked regularly for any constrictions. I even peek in the grow box (through the one cutout that I use as an access port) periodically to check the volume of air bubbles generated by the air stones. There is constantly a steady and strong stream of bubbles. In addition, I use Botanicare HYDROGUARD Bacillus Root Inoculant to prevent root rot (and have never seen the first evidence of any in any of my grows).

Ok.
So if I’m reading everything correctly?
Root ball is ok?
No smell or discoloration or slime right.
Just the trunk goes soft and growth stops completely?
Am I correct in these facts?



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StudioMan]

Ok.
So if I’m reading everything correctly?
Root ball is ok?
No smell or discoloration or slime right.
Just the trunk goes soft and growth stops completely?
Am I correct in these facts?



Stay safe
Bill284

You are 100% correct ... Suspecting a possible root issue, I have even pulled the dead plant with its roots out during the grow and observed that the roots of the dead plants were the same color as the healthy plants.

 

[Bill284]

Ok.
So if I’m reading everything correctly?
Root ball is ok?
No smell or discoloration or slime right.
Just the trunk goes soft and growth stops completely?
Am I correct in these facts?



Stay safe
Bill284

If the above is correct than it’s something to do with uptake?
If roots can’t uptake nutrients the stem is susceptible to rot
We need to figure out why?
What is the temperature of the liquid?



Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Bill284]

The access port?
Does it let light in?


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StudioMan]

If the above is correct than it’s something to do with uptake?
If roots can’t uptake nutrients the stem is susceptible to rot
We need to figure out why?
What is the temperature of the liquid?



Stay safe
Bill284

Liquid temp (which I also measure every day when checking pH and TDS) varies depending on time of year here in South Carolina. Lowest I've seen is around 70 deg F and highest was around 77 deg F. But bear in mind, I've experienced these plant failures with every grow regardless of time of year.

 

[StudioMan]

The access port?
Does it let light in?


Stay safe
Bill284

The access port is simply one of the six circular cutouts on the grow box top. I keep it covered with a black plastic sheet when I'm not using it to change out water/nutes. When I first started growing (almost 8 years ago), I read where root exposure to light was a no-no. The cutout I use for access is one of the "corner holes" in the grow box top (e.g., away from the roots of the other plants).

 

[Bill284]

Liquid temp (which I also measure every day when checking pH and TDS) varies depending on time of year here in South Carolina. Lowest I've seen is around 70 deg F and highest was around 77 deg F. But bear in mind, I've experienced these plant failures with every grow regardless of time of year.

That’s your problem.
Temperature is too high.
You have one plant die when it’s 70f?
2 plants die when it’s 77f?
Nutrient temps should be 18 c ideally.
That’s what 64f.
Get a chiller and set it to 64 and you will have solved your issue.
IMO.
On another topic
Do you have a smoke detector in the room area?

Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StudioMan]

That’s your problem.
Temperature is too high.
You have one plant die when it’s 70f?
2 plants die when it’s 77f?
Nutrient temps should be 18 c ideally.
That’s what 64f.
Get a chiller and set it to 64 and you will have solved your issue.
IMO.
On another topic
Do you have a smoke detector in the room area?

Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks, Bill. I'll try it ...
Any suggestions for chillers appropriate for the usable volume of liquid held by my grow box (roughly 8 gallons)?

 

[Bill284]

Thanks, Bill. I'll try it ...
Any suggestions for chillers appropriate for the usable volume of liquid held by my grow box (roughly 8 gallons)?

A 1/4 hp will do that for you no problem.
Good luck with your grow my friend.
Post some pics if you have them we would love to see them.
If you want to say hi and meet everyone here is a link.

Introduce Yourself

Your opportunity to tell the 420 community a little about yourself and your interest in cannabis with a brief introduction

www.420magazine.com

Stay safe
Bill284

 

[StudioMan]

A 1/4 hp will do that for you no problem.
Good luck with your grow my friend.
Post some pics if you have them we would love to see them.
If you want to say hi and meet everyone here is a link.

Introduce Yourself

Your opportunity to tell the 420 community a little about yourself and your interest in cannabis with a brief introduction

www.420magazine.com

Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks for everything! Your help (and that of your buddies) is greatly appreciated!

One last question ... Does the chiller create measureable heat (like typical refrigeration processes do)? I currently work hard to maintain grow tent temps in the low 80's and any measureable addition to that may be solving one problem while creating another. Or can the chiller be operated outside the tent with lines run in/out of the tent?

Thx again!

 

[bluter]

the hydro system sounds too small to sustain all the plants. nothing with a common res works out very well. they never have enough room and pass root issues and other problems between them. indoor plants always do better when they have their own space.

edit : best way to use most of those systems is grow only 1 - 2 plants and scrog the grow. i used an old 4 pot spit and dribble system almost 30yrs ago now and it was ok for a single plant but that's all it could muster.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks Buddy
You ever see that response from a plant?
Going soft like that at the trunk?




Stay safe
Bill284

I have not, but it could simply be that some plants are weaker than others.

I grow from clones and always take many more cuttings than I'll need (like 5-10x more) because I've found that if I take say 10 cuttings from the same mother plant at the same time, there are always one or two of them that develop a much better root system than the others by the time I pot up what I need for the next round.

The best of the best get potted up and the rest get an up close and personal tour of the worm farm. So Studio's issue could simply be that the weakest of the plants fail first in an overcrowded environment. Natural selection at work, perhaps.