Ok week 5 - Flower leaves - Brown spots

[Far East Buds]

Anyone recognize these spots on the leaves. It's a hydro grow and ppm was a tiny bit high ph pretty close. 5.5 ph. 1170 PPM on nutes week 5 flower and about a week after defol.

More details on the bottom of my page 1st dwc scrog.
Thank you for looking

 

[NuttyProfessor]

are you using cal/mag . looks like cal to me , would you be growing using led ?

 

[Far East Buds]

are you using cal/mag . looks like cal to me , would you be growing using led ?

Thank you very much for responding.. as I am stressed like a plant now
600 hps DWC grow. Been very smooth to this point .. First grow so problems I have no experience with.
Following Lucas formula and have never been over 1250 on nutes..average 1000. (was 1170 before change) ph 5.5 low to 6.0 peak... um Did a nute change last night so maybe be it will help but was only 8 days since last one.

I have seen a couple black flies. but not many.
Humidity has been a slight issue in the 70's for a few days.

 

[Far East Buds]

I did a pretty large Defol about 5-6 days ago. Mostly below scrog screen. I use GH chemicals and lucas so micro and bloom only with bud candy for a few nute changes now. The little of the roots I could check on looked thick and white.. can't see much of them with plant in scrog.

umm I'll keep posting details as I think of them. The link is on my sig
far east buds first grow scrog.

Thanks again for checking it out.

 

[OrganicMan]

Hey there mate I think calcium deficiency too. Are you in a soft water area?

 

[Far East Buds]

Hey there mate I think calcium deficiency too. Are you in a soft water area?

I guess yes it technically is. Would it only show late in flower? I haven't seen anything like it all throughout the grow.
I'll pick up a Cal/mag additive today.
Thanks for looking. week 5 on this one I hate to beat her up too much

 

[OrganicMan]

In mid to late flower the plant needs more calcium and magnesium due to the increased uptake of phosphorus and potassium for bud building , especially in hydro due to the lack of held nutrients in a substrate. I hope this helps

 

[OldMedUser]

That ain't bugs or any kind of Ca or Mg deficiency. It may be a form of nute burn. After the stretch feeding really slows down and some plants won't like the higher ppm so much. I'd remove a quarter of the nutes and top up with pure water just in case to drop the ppm 25%. That should get it out of the danger zone if high ppm is the problem and not slow bud growth if it isn't. Nute burn usually affect the edges of the leaves first but ya never know.

It looks like it could well be a fungal/viral/bacterial infection as well but it would take some serious sleuthing to figure it out. You don't happen to roll your own cigs like me do you? Tobacco carries a virus called the Tobacco Mosaic Virus and infects tomatoes or pot very easily. Symptoms are a bit different than those you have but similar.

Ozone can do damage like that as well but if you don't use ozone scratch that.

All I can do atm. Bed heater has got my side all warmed up and it's calling loud now. 5am for Pete's sake.

L8r

 

[Far East Buds]

In mid to late flower the plant needs more calcium and magnesium due to the increased uptake of phosphorus and potassium for bud building , especially in hydro due to the lack of held nutrients in a substrate. I hope this helps

Yes that definitely helps. Thank you for helping out. I'll grab something today.

 

[Far East Buds]

That ain't bugs or any kind of Ca or Mg deficiency. It may be a form of nute burn. After the stretch feeding really slows down and some plants won't like the higher ppm so much. I'd remove a quarter of the nutes and top up with pure water just in case to drop the ppm 25%. That should get it out of the danger zone if high ppm is the problem and not slow bud growth if it isn't. Nute burn usually affect the edges of the leaves first but ya never know.

It looks like it could well be a fungal/viral/bacterial infection as well but it would take some serious sleuthing to figure it out. You don't happen to roll your own cigs like me do you? Tobacco carries a virus called the Tobacco Mosaic Virus and infects tomatoes or pot very easily. Symptoms are a bit different than those you have but similar.

Ozone can do damage like that as well but if you don't use ozone scratch that.

All I can do atm. Bed heater has got my side all warmed up and it's calling loud now. 5am for Pete's sake.

L8r

Thank you kindly Oldmed as usual thanks for looking. Go rest up bro. I was actually getting up for work and didn't really expect you to get this stuff til later.

I do smoke but don't roll my own. (wife keeps asking me too hehe)
I do smoke in there on occasion but not much usually outside room.
no ozone
I am hoping you are on with the nutes. I haven't gone too much lower yet but did drop it 200 pts in the change yesterday. Ill dilute that tonight as I was debating the drop at this point anyway.

If I add cal/ mag just in case can that hurt it?

Now you have me worried on this fungal thing. Rot? Should I somehow try to treat just the affected leaves?

 

[Far East Buds]

Re: Ok week 5 - Flower leaves - Brown spots- Update!

It's mites... Wish me luck correcting this so late in flower... Let the learning begin..

 

[ruddie]

In mid to late flower the plant needs more calcium and magnesium due to the increased uptake of phosphorus and potassium for bud building , especially in hydro due to the lack of held nutrients in a substrate. I hope this helps

Thank you for the advice because this saved me having to post up the identical thread.
The picture posted atleast for the top of the leaf looked exactly like mine, no issues so far up untill week 4 of flower.

 

[Far East Buds]

Thank you for the advice because this saved me having to post up the identical thread.
The picture posted atleast for the top of the leaf looked exactly like mine, no issues so far up untill week 4 of flower.

Well also be cautious because I also think it may have been nutes too and the mites.... It seems fine now...

I recommend If you don't have a lupe like 30x then you may need one... I took a fan leaf that I could tell was newly injured. Flipped it over... and stared at it.. a long time... I noticed a speck that was moving... under the lupe I could see what it was... Treated the plant.. later with a neem oil diluted mix.

Careful on this. alot of people didn't recommended neem this late in flower for me (almost 6) but the alternative was watch it possibly die. I realized I will have to try a bud wash treatment before drying. My grow shop was very high on NPK bud wash and said i can use it up to like 3 days before harvest but I will only use it if I have another outbreak. I can find nowhere what is in it.. but everyone who uses it gives it rave reviews.. supposedly no wash needed with that?

In case it was nutes or as well i dropped the nutes and added cal/mag boost. (some people said those leaves has a cal\mag deficiency)
It very well could have been the nutes and bugs...
Day after all this... plant responded well no more mites going on second day (day 3 is when the new larvae would pop) And she perked right up. Leaves have not gotten worse.. the continued link is in my sig.


You can post pics here if you want to show them...

 

[ruddie]

Thanks for reminding me about mites. I just checked with my loop I have a 50x and I checked 15 leaves and couldn't find anything looking about. Just the rust from the top leaves starting to show through from the bottom.

My sad story goes like this.

In my last grow I used way too many nutrients and I think I was just burning the crap out of them the whole time. This time I have gone much easier on the nutrients and my plants look way way more healthy.

I decided that changing water every seven days was too much, if I tested the water the EC would sometimes still be around 1.4 or higher. Why throw it all out. I have a RDWC system which I think helps me run for longer.
So I took it to around 10-12 days I think before I changed nutrients and I think the pic is the cause of that.

The problem was I then stuffed up and added in more, my target EC is 1.8 on this grow but was at 2.6 after a fresh change. Overnight I've been able to top up with fresh water but it's still sitting at 2.0. My idea was I'd fill up 1/3 of the tank with full strength as recommended on the bottles and then dilute down to the disired EC. The problem was that a third of the tank was so strong by the time I finished topping up I was still at 2.6.
Just checked and after 19 hours from water change it's still at 2.0.
Waiting for more water to get used and I'll just go fresh.

Hence I now have burnt tips now....

 

[Far East Buds]

Thanks for reminding me about mites. I just checked with my loop I have a 50x and I checked 15 leaves and couldn't find anything looking about. Just the rust from the top leaves starting to show through from the bottom.

My sad story goes like this.

In my last grow I used way too many nutrients and I think I was just burning the crap out of them the whole time. This time I have gone much easier on the nutrients and my plants look way way more healthy.

I decided that changing water every seven days was too much, if I tested the water the EC would sometimes still be around 1.4 or higher. Why throw it all out. I have a RDWC system which I think helps me run for longer.
So I took it to around 10-12 days I think before I changed nutrients and I think the pic is the cause of that.

The problem was I then stuffed up and added in more, my target EC is 1.8 on this grow but was at 2.6 after a fresh change. Overnight I've been able to top up with fresh water but it's still sitting at 2.0. My idea was I'd fill up 1/3 of the tank with full strength as recommended on the bottles and then dilute down to the disired EC. The problem was that a third of the tank was so strong by the time I finished topping up I was still at 2.6.
Just checked and after 19 hours from water change it's still at 2.0.
Waiting for more water to get used and I'll just go fresh.

Hence I now have burnt tips now....

Ok so what I can answer I will which wont be much.. nute swaps at a week or ever other week are ok... both will be adequate in most grows. I have heard of people not changing it at all just adding stuff as they transpire .. but just stuff i've read here mostly. Yours looks different than mine but diff strains look different. I don't think the issue is the same based on appearance but..I am still in observe mode but hopefully someone will pipe in here to help. I am still not sure what the ultimate answer was for me due to making the error of adjusting 2 things at once.
but the bugs had to be dealt with.
Just cause you still have nutes in there doesn't mean that it is possibly pulling it as easy if it is low on what it needs.. I am only thinking of this because when I do a nute change I can usually see the plant respond in 24 hours. So the higher levels may be taken in easier .. just a theory..

I have been doing it early sometimes cause I am at 1 plant in flower and it inst too much for the nutes at this level. Veg i think is ok to do less.

You need to just eliminate stuff as you go. If you are confident no bugs then.. PH...PPM...fungus.. thats where i'd look


Sorry someone will recognize it on the forum here i am sure...

 

[ruddie]

My mistake that has been modified in my second system was growing multiple strains in the one system.
Those pictures are from a system that has four different types. NorthernLights, blueberry candy, DPS shaman and one local bag seed.
Each strain needs different stuff and I can't be too specific because if I up it too much I burn the plants that don't like high EC/PPM levels.
Hence, the second system essentially is stand alone DWC buckets for each plant.

I'm sort of trusting AN on their PH perfect system. I went and still got an RO system and I find my PH changes based on the additives I use. If I'm only adding in Voodo and B-52 the PH stays very stable around 5.8-6.2 but once I add all the additives I get super high EC (3.6+) and fairly high PH (around 7). I once measured it additive by additive and there is no way around it from what I see.
But now that I have individual pots I can see that each pot has a different PH and the plants are all extremely healthy so I essentially don't worry about the PH. Apparently the chelation in the formula allows nutrients to be available at a much wider PH range then they would other wise be.

Fungus wise the roots are a nice white and I only 4 weeks ago ran a hydroperoxide through the system (on the change from veg to flower).

 

[Thattimeof]

Good stuff in here learned a lot I

 

[Far East Buds]

My mistake that has been modified in my second system was growing multiple strains in the one system.
Those pictures are from a system that has four different types. NorthernLights, blueberry candy, DPS shaman and one local bag seed.
Each strain needs different stuff and I can't be too specific because if I up it too much I burn the plants that don't like high EC/PPM levels.
Hence, the second system essentially is stand alone DWC buckets for each plant.

I'm sort of trusting AN on their PH perfect system. I went and still got an RO system and I find my PH changes based on the additives I use. If I'm only adding in Voodo and B-52 the PH stays very stable around 5.8-6.2 but once I add all the additives I get super high EC (3.6+) and fairly high PH (around 7). I once measured it additive by additive and there is no way around it from what I see.
But now that I have individual pots I can see that each pot has a different PH and the plants are all extremely healthy so I essentially don't worry about the PH. Apparently the chelation in the formula allows nutrients to be available at a much wider PH range then they would other wise be.

Fungus wise the roots are a nice white and I only 4 weeks ago ran a hydroperoxide through the system (on the change from veg to flower).

The separate DWC buckets was one reason I discontinued using 1 res with 4 buckets in DWC ... sorta ebb..flow..
I will run 3 tubs 2 each for flower.. stick with 3 strains in flower at a time is the plan.

So are you seeing the fluctuation when you add nutes to and existing pot or is it when you flush them they jump based on what you add?

I do my mixing in a 5 gallon pail. add one nute.. additive at a time and mix very well in between adjust my ph last thing ... Then in the system.
different if i am topping off system I always mix up 1 or 5 gallons same method and use it to top as needed... Like right now I am drinking a lot of water to nute level rises ph drops...

I have pail of water... I added My bud candy .. cal/ mag boost...no nutes and PH'd it high 6.2 so when I add it to my res as it transpires it evens out nicely!

I have never done a peroxide treatment.. I have only seen my roots once a week ago barely could lift pot.. it was white...( could only barely see in side..) Scrog made that not worth it to check for me...

Could be wrong but if you are running different pots for each are all the plants looking like that? I would say nutes....

If my deficiency was cal/ mag and bug stress... The cal/ mag didn't get added except to address the issue so there was probably always a deficiency there. With the plant healthy and the cal/mag close to enough it didn't impact it.

When I got to flower it started REALLY drinking it up .. the fluids... At this point any deficiency would be hugely enhanced... just a theory

So test all and what you can.. and don't assume what was working in Veg wont have a deficiency in flower... If you correct it thinks should perk up quickly... It seem to for me...

Good luck hope it helps .. Remember I am very new at this but read a lot... and I've had some good people help me along... Hopefully these idea's help

 

[Far East Buds]

The separate DWC buckets was one reason I discontinued using 1 res with 4 buckets in DWC ... sorta ebb..flow..
I will run 3 tubs 2 each for flower.. stick with 3 strains in flower at a time is the plan.

So are you seeing the fluctuation when you add nutes to and existing pot or is it when you flush them they jump based on what you add?

I do my mixing in a 5 gallon pail. add one nute.. additive at a time and mix very well in between adjust my ph last thing ... Then in the system.
different if i am topping off system I always mix up 1 or 5 gallons same method and use it to top as needed... Like right now I am drinking a lot of water to nute level rises ph drops...

I have pail of water... I added My bud candy .. cal/ mag boost...no nutes and PH'd it high 6.2 so when I add it to my res as it transpires it evens out nicely!

I have never done a peroxide treatment.. I have only seen my roots once a week ago barely could lift pot.. it was white...( could only barely see in side..) Scrog made that not worth it to check for me...

Could be wrong but if you are running different pots for each are all the plants looking like that? I would say nutes....

If my deficiency was cal/ mag and bug stress... The cal/ mag didn't get added except to address the issue so there was probably always a deficiency there. With the plant healthy and the cal/mag close to enough it didn't impact it.

When I got to flower it started REALLY drinking it up .. the fluids... At this point any deficiency would be hugely enhanced... just a theory

So test all and what you can.. and don't assume what was working in Veg wont have a deficiency in flower... If you correct it thinks should perk up quickly... It seem to for me...

Good luck hope it helps .. Remember I am very new at this but read a lot... and I've had some good people help me along... Hopefully these idea's help

Oh and in flower .. as you get going in,,, the nute levels need to drop.. I was way too hot I believe...My next change...? later this week... will have much less on the nute side.. But it will be mid week 6..7

 

[ruddie]

"So are you seeing the fluctuation when you add nutes to and existing pot or is it when you flush them they jump based on what you add?"

Both to be honest and in regards to nutrients I'm not the best if you ask me. I burnt the crap outta mine heaps and when I don't know what to do I suck up the costs and just replace the res with a fresh load.
One thing I noticed using AN but I've only ever used AN so this might be a thing but mixing really really well before each additive seems to produce a more stable feed. But I now don't stir as I would normally I pour from one container to another that way the solution is 100% mixed in well. I would still stick to adding in one at a time though. They can't be in contact with each other in pure form.

I haven't noticed any order but I think sticking to adding in Micro first then Grow then Bloom is better then other ways. Then I just follow the Chart. So if you're only adding in the vits and voodoo the chart shows Voodoo being first at the top so I would add it in first.

The thing I am doing wrong is I'm trying to use every single additive in the world and this is my problem. It's too much for me too early I've come to accept that in the past few days and hence this grow I am going easy on them but still adding everything in the whole line up. My next grow I am just going to use a few things at different stages. I really like the Voodoo because I can see big roots (not sure if I would have gotten them before but either way I don't mind using it) I also like the tarantula and parahna stuff because it puts in stuff that would be found in soils anyways those three I am sticking with but haven't made up my mind about the rest.


"I have never done a peroxide treatment.."

You should try it because there can only be benefits if done correctly. In my opinion wasting time is the worst crime so I'd rather just purchase the correct hydro-peroxide (not ones used for fish or other stuff but go to a hydro store and get what they sell) and mix in some as a preventative. But remember that you don't want to be using stuff like voodoo in that res because the peroxide kills everything.
But as a preventative it's great especially if you know you have high res temps.

What I do is the day I switch from veg to flower I run a few batches of nothing but fresh water through the system. Batch one about 4ml of hydro peroxide per gallon. Run for 5 mins. Dump. batch two 2mls for 5. Then the last batch is fresh water.
I like to think keeping a clean system helps and it doesn't take long and its a good time to do it. The system has had water in it for lets say 3-7 weeks and wouldn't you think it would need a clean?

At the moment I have my res at roughly 12 gallons and the nutrients reader says its at 2400PPM. (way too much for my liken)
Once the lights turn on I will top up with just RO water (I am going to add cal/mag only because the RO process rips that stuff out so I need to put it back in I often wonder about the iron and zinc but from reading it should be already in the nutrients) and I expect the PPM reading to go down. But this is the bit I don't get, in a while the water level will drop down again and the reading will be most likely higher then 2400. I don't understand what's going on hence now I'm reading into osmossis and reading as many threads here.