No Till & IPM

Mastrmasn

Mastrmasn

Well-Known Member
Running my first no till I came up with a question I cant seem to find an answer for regarding IPM.

My soil recipe called for neem cake and the feed schedule calls for neem and kelp tea every 14 or so days. Applying the neem this way does it count towards your IPM?
 
IPM = Integrated Pest Control (I had to look it up :) )

Yes, the neem cake and oil used in the tea are part of your IPM.
 
Good to know. Thanks @Old Salt. I figured using all that neem would work for part of my IPM. But I didnt want to assume so without a professional opinion.
 
:rofl: I'm far from a professional!

Neem is not a plant food, or soil amendment to feed the microbes in the soil. It's a natural bug killer. That puts it into the IPM column in my opinion. I haven't used it yet.

After three years, I now have my first infestation of fungus gnats. I'm using yellow sticky traps for the adult fliers, and nematodes to deal with their larva. I'm also growing with coco/perlite in a drain to waste hydroponics system, using Mega Crop nutrients. So I'm also not growing in soil, let alone LOS. Emilya is the person I usually refer members to that have problems with, or are new to soil growing. As your question dealt with pest control, I felt comfortable answering. There's another member dealing with fungus gnats in LOS that also has a healthy amount of useful bugs, worms, and microbes in his soil. You might want to follow along with Fungus Gnats!
 
With IPM routine - foliar on whatever you wanna use.

I've been using Serenade mixed in with RO water, coconut water (pure no sugar no preservatives), kelp tea, Pro-tekt and ful-power.

For neem to use in an IPM you can make a tea with it.

Soak a 1/4 cup in a quart mason jar, put it in the back of the fridge and pour off the liquid say a few tbs into a gallon of water. Mix in your other amendments listed above and foliar on.

Can make the kelp tea the same way. They will keep about 3 weeks in the fridge. About 2 days not in fridge.

I've been running no-till coots mix for several years. Neem cake is in the soil mix. It's good for a lot of stuff. The oil is not good unless you really have a bad infestation you cant get rid of any other way. Plus it has a bad taste and you will taste it in the smoke. So try to avoid.

Neem is best in soil really, and the only place I put it.

So @Mastrmasn to answer your question, no.

IPM is a foliar application for pest management.

ACT or aerated compost teas are for adding in more soil microbes.
By adding these teas to the soil you can overwhelm bad microbes in the soil for sure but an IPM is a foliar application for airborne pest and disease.

Seranade is a rhizobacteria = a beneficial bacteria that works in a symbiotic way with roots and will also help plants grow bigger.. a side benefit and why we foliar on, it will eat pests (including bad bacteria, molds and some viruses) on the leaves of plants. It is also systemic which means the active ingredient (bacillus subtlis) gets inside the plant and will fight pathogens from the inside as well.







I use it weekly as part of my IPM routine.

I will use other similar organic products in my IPM routine as well.
 
I wouldn't add the neem - use something else without flavor. Neem seriously tastes like ass and them some.

I'm using a product called Serenade or you can use Spinosad/ = Monterey Garden Spray.

These are all organic and can be used up to harvest if needed.
 
For basic IPM in LOS all you need is Hyopasis Miles predator Mites and Rove Beetles.
They will get rid of just about every bad soil borne bug.
If you already have a fungus gnat infestation then you need to use BTI in the form of Gnatrol for 3 weeks with sticky traps and add the mites and Beetles and you're good to go.
 
Spinosad (Montery) can be part of your IPM.

I switch up cause I get mites from time to time and they can get resistant to just 1 product.
I doubt they will resist spinosad tho I just switch up to make me feel better.

Montery should be used as a preventative in your IPM. I use 1 tbs to a gal of water and add in the other ingredients and foliar on.

@Nunyabiz has a great point to use natural predators. He's likely running in large containers with established cover/companion crops.

@Nunyabiz do you chop your cover crop from time to time or just leave it grow??
 
bobrown14 said:
I wouldn't add the neem - use something else without flavor. Neem seriously tastes like ass and them some.

I'm using a product called Serenade or you can use Spinosad/ = Monterey Garden Spray.

These are all organic and can be used up to harvest if needed.
Click to expand...
Look up AgroMagen if you need foliar for mites. It’s the only thing I’d recommend.
 
Lancashire farmer said:
If your going no till organic why not introduce beneficial insects as a preve tative to your potential issues?
Even with neem foliars and products like spinosad I personally taste a massive differance in finishing product.
Click to expand...
You won’t taste AgroMagen. Neem should only go into soil. That stuff is nasty.

I used 30000+ Predatory mites (5 species) and 1000s of ladybugs, and they were basically useless for an infestation. AgroMagen wipes them all out with 3 treatments, and on top of that, it conditions your plants.
 
PERSIMILISforce™ for Spider Mite Control
Description
Phytoseiulus persimilis is used for spider mite control and management. These are true killers that can’t go long without food. They’re voracious predators of most of the spider mite pest Tetranychus spp. Some of the species they impact include: the two-spotted mite T. urticae, the carmine red mite T. cinnabarinus, and the Pacific mite T. pacificus.

I bought 20,000 of these from Greenmethods.com to build my colony. If you don’t have an infestation, it’s a good route to go as a precautionary measure. I’ve ordered from two different vendors and hands down GM was the best quality.
I honestly liked the lady bugs better.
 
AdaminCO said:
You won’t taste AgroMagen. Neem should only go into soil. That stuff is nasty.

I used 30000+ Predatory mites (5 species) and 1000s of ladybugs, and they were basically useless for an infestation. AgroMagen wipes them all out with 3 treatments, and on top of that, it conditions your plants.
Click to expand...
Not used that specific product but noticed any essential oil taints the finishing product if used in flower (just my experiance).
You used 30,000 beneficials and didn't get a result? Did you match the climate issues to the predator? I find most of the time people use the wrong predetor.
Seems crazy that... 100 a plant mix of permisis and californicus wipes out any issue we have hear as long as your room sits between 20-30c.
 
Lancashire farmer said:
Not used that specific product but noticed any essential oil taints the finishing product if used in flower (just my experiance).
You used 30,000 beneficials and didn't get a result? Did you match the climate issues to the predator? I find most of the time people use the wrong predetor.
Seems crazy that... 100 a plant mix of permisis and californicus wipes out any issue we have hear as long as your room sits between 20-30c.
Click to expand...
70F night
80F day
It was a BADDD infestation. I almost pulled the plug on the grow but found AgroMagen. They say not to use past week 7. The oils used are very thinned out. Nothing close to Neem.
You should try it if/when you get another infestation. It’s truly a good product.
I use it as a leaf conditioner too. It smells like vanilla coconut milk. Quite pleasant. The SDS was the Most comforting out of all the products I used.

I released a few thousand of these from Goodguys too. I also had larvae I’m hanging bags. Lol! I got desperate.

Target Pests:
Two Spotted Spider Mites, Broad Mites, Rust Mites, Russet Hemp Mites, Cyclamen Mites and Southern Red Mites and other species of mites.

Description:These predatory mites are the Natural and Organic way to Control Spider mites. Special Blend predatory mites and Spider mites are natural enemies.
Special Blend Mite Predator, normally consisting of an assortment of the following predatory mites; A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii. Special Blend is best used in unknown environments/growing conditions. Our Special Blend takes the guess work out of which mite should be used in your Garden, Green House, or Grow Room. It has been proven to be very effective. You will see a mixture of bright reddish orange, colored mites with obvious long legs. These mites can tolerate temperatures up to 105°F., but do best in temperatures between 60°F-85°F. They do well in humidities ranging from 40%-90%. To raise the humidity level, you can lightly mist the plants or surrounding walkways.
 
Just checked the ingredients of that spray... Maybe I'm differant then because I taste chilli if its sprayed as a preventative
.
If it was bad I'd just burn it :rofl:.

As ipm though I belive beneficials to be 100% the way to go on a organic grow.

Not had any bad outbreaks since I started beneficials in 2011 so just sticking with what works. No intention of ever spraying my plants in flower.
 
Alot of the products you guys mention are hard to get in Canada. Even neem oil isn't allowed as an insecticide. I have to get mine from Indian food markets.
 
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