Nick Hardy's Skunk Works #2 The Giant SIP Outdoor Soil: Thailand!

[Carmen Ray]

So to Brix. A fairly underwhelming 9.3%

@Gee64 I’m taking low down, “back side” leaves to test. Will this impact? She’s not big enough yet to start wanting to take bigger sunny side fans from - love a defoliation indoors me but doesn’t feel like the time now.

I've been following @Gee64's work for a while now and it definitely does matter where you take the leaves from. He will explain. Also, he does not defol. I'm sure Gee won't mind me commenting here while he is in the land of nod

 

[NickHardy]

So I waited until it was dark so I didn’t have to see too much of the abomination I was committing and chose a primo top fan, chopped and squeezed and got - 9.5%.

Dunno, could be a a fraction of a shade darker green for me at this stage.

But in rude health otherwise.

Its a long long way to Tipperary though, as someone once sung.

Nick

 

[Gee64]

I've been following @Gee64's work for a while now and it definitely does matter where you take the leaves from. He will explain. Also, he does not defol. I'm sure Gee won't mind me commenting here while he is in the land of nod

In a perfect plant all readings should theoretically be the same, but I haven't found a perfect plant yet.

The lower down you go on the plant, the lower the readings generally are.

I use the newest leaves that are completely full size, so about 3/4 the way up the plant. Lots of things can give you a low brix reading.

If you are using synthetics you will find it really hard to get your brix over 12.

Five things mainly control brix, or at least have the biggest effect on it. Calcium, phosphorus, oxygen, carbon, and enough healthy microbes. If you get those 5 dialed brix will climb. And you need adequate light of course.

Too much nitrogen will crash brix so keep that in mind. Nitrogen is aminos, which are precursers to protein. Processing nitrogen into proteins requires a lot of water. All the extra water literally waters your sap down and brix levels drop.

If your brix levels are higher down bottom than up top you are low on phosphorus.

If the line in the refractometer (sorry digital guys, analog is better here) you are low on calcium. If its really fuzzy you are good on calcium.

When you read the leaves, just use the leaves, not the leaf petiole, it will be substantially lower.

Taking readings from OTHER than the leaf won't really tell you much, as the leaf is where things get stored. How much you have stored in your leaves determines whether or not pests want to bite those leaves.

From google
"Grasshopper group – long-horned grasshoppers (Tettigoniidae), crickets, and related insects. They will target a plant when the Brix falls below 12 but will lose interest in it when the Brix sinks below 10.

Chewing insects – beetles (Coleoptera) and butterflies and moths (Lepidoptera) and related insects. They lose interest in a plant when the Brix value reaches as high as 9 to 11. Below that range, a plant is vulnerable to chewing insects.

Sucking insects – leafhoppers (Cicadellidae), froghoppers (Cercopoidea), planthoppers (Fulgoromorpha), stink bugs (Pentatomidae) and thrips (Thysanoptera). They begin to lose interest in a plant when the Brix value reaches between 7 and 9.

Aphid group – aphids (Aphidoidea) and scale (Coccoidea). The insects in this group prefer a really low Brix value, below 6 to 8, because they can’t tolerate too much sugar at once."

 

[NickHardy]

Yeah I took a couple of low level flowers aiming for the side back to the wall and got 9.5 then later in the day a prime 3/4 way up the plant sun side and got 9.5 so like you say should be the same all round.

She’s all organic remember @Azimuth and calling me “a dilettante organic grower” is fighting talk

We’ll see - she sure looks nice but a bit pale still and not sure the res has kicked. Reckon this will be my last journo to finish. Nice and peaceful grow.

Apart from Azi and me bickering

 

[NickHardy]

About an hour ago she looked dead

Wilted AF. You can see on the lower leaves.

In a panic I threw in about 10L top watering another 5L and the res over flowed.

Then I panicked even more! What if the 12 litres I top watered a few days back was overwatering? I’m in coco normally so I worried. . I haven’t looked at her for a few days been kinda busy.

Thankfully she’s perked up, seriously so. Shoulda taken a photo an hour ago but stuff going on.

So she’s not drinking from the res and its not wicking.

Shed - I forget. Was it the SIP or the SWICK you had problems with? SIP I think?

I wonder you in SoCal me here - the solar radiation on the pot messes with it?

Throwing it out there as a guess. She started praying again within an hour of getting the extra water though.

Nick

 

[Absorber]

About an hour ago she looked dead

Wilted AF. You can see on the lower leaves.

In a panic I threw in about 10L top watering another 5L and the res over flowed.

Then I panicked even more! What if the 12 litres I top watered a few days back was overwatering? I haven’t looked at her for a few days been kinda busy.

Thankfully she’s perked up, seriously so. Shoulda taken a photo an hour ago but stuff going on.

So she’s not drinking from the res and its not wicking.

Shed - I forget. Was it the SIP or the SWICK you had problems with? SIP I think?

I wonder you in SoCal me here - the solar radiation on the pot messes with it?

Throwing it out there as a guess. She started praying again within an hour of getting the extra water though.

Nick

Top water a little maybe roots aren't at the bottom yet tho you would think they would be being that big.
Reservoir was probably empty maybe

 

[NickHardy]

No down the pipe 5L was runoff.

Like you say you would think that big the roots would have hit by now.

Something is afoot at the Super K…

I’m turning round every 5 minutes and she is visibly improving so def she was thirsty and def the res was barely touched.

Explains the lengthy stall. Sunset in about 90 minutes I’ll get a picture before for comparison.

Not like me to underwater a plant out there

 

[Absorber]

No down the pipe 5L was runoff.

Like you say you would think that big the roots would have hit by now.

Something is afoot at the Super K…

I’m turning round every 5 minutes and she is visibly improving so def she was thirsty and def the res was barely touched.

Explains the lengthy stall. Sunset in about 90 minutes I’ll get a picture before for comparison.

Not like me to underwater a plant out there

I think when I make SIP's in the future im going to fit an elbow in the drain and put the drain at the bottom of pot with a bit of pipe to reach the water full level .
That way I can drain reservoir if needed by rotating the elbow.

 

[NickHardy]

Look at that perk up!

Yeah I have a valve on both of mine. My guess is the perlite centre column isn’t wicking yet and getting dry and the roots haven’t got down as far as the main res. A bit of top watering (its stopped raining) and it will kick on.

 

[InTheShed]

Shed - I forget. Was it the SIP or the SWICK you had problems with? SIP I think?
I wonder you in SoCal me here - the solar radiation on the pot messes with it?

It was the SIP I had trouble with because of the age of the plant (roots) when I transitioned it from top-water-regular-pot to the SIP. The SWICK did much better with a wet towel wrapped around it to keep the water cool, but there were roots in the res.

My guess is the perlite centre column isn’t wicking yet

I think someone mentioned during the design process that they didn't think the perlite centre column was going to cut it with that much soil. That someone still feels similarly.

 

[NickHardy]

It was the SIP I had trouble with because of the age of the plant (roots) when I transitioned it from top-water-regular-pot to the SIP. The SWICK did much better with a wet towel wrapped around it to keep the water cool, but there were roots in the res.

I think someone mentioned during the design process that they didn't think the perlite centre column was going to cut it with that much soil. That someone still feels similarly.

Its a 5” diameter column, that’s not trivial, 300 cubic inches or 5 litres. It was meant to have just grown straight down through it but clearly hasn’t. Or hasn’t enough. I have some spare silver insulation I’ll wrap round her later.

 

[NickHardy]

Its possible it was this hot yesterday. 39.6c is 103.28F I was really busy with the curtains closed and AC on. Today she took 9L to run off - must be some evaporation accounting for the that.

Root zone too hot I reckon got to get that “skirt” on - may even throw a bag of ice down the pipe.

 

[Absorber]

Its possible it was this hot yesterday. 39.6c is 103.28F I was really busy with the curtains closed and AC on. Today she took 9L to run off - must be some evaporation accounting for the that.

Root zone too hot I reckon got to get that “skirt” on - may even throw a bag of ice down the pipe.

Definitely needs a loose skirt

 

[Carmen Ray]

Wow, that's hot and humid. Deffo a cool skirt!

 

[NickHardy]

Humidity is actually low for here 80%+generally.


Our dining table has been in the garage by the tents since Sunday for the BBQ.

So hot the black glass cracked in the sun today

 

[InTheShed]

Its a 5” diameter column, that’s not trivial, 300 cubic inches or 5 litres.

But it's perlite and not soil. I'm not sure I can think of any SIPs over in the thread that don't have soil wicks. And soil will move a lot more water up into the root mass than perlite will...ask me how I know!

 

[Azimuth]

But it's perlite and not soil. I'm not sure I can think of any SIPs over in the thread that don't have soil wicks. And soil will move a lot more water up into the root mass than perlite will...ask me how I know!

I used to build my mini-SIPs with a perlite reservoir but found it didn't work that great with an organic mix, at least. You'll get a different type of root down there as well, something more like you'd get in DWC.

Now for the very small 9 oz SIPs, I use chunky type perlite for half the reservoir area (I tilt the cup when I fill it so the perlite sits on an angle) and then I fill the other half with soil so that there is a continuous soil area from the top to the very bottom of the cup.

 

[InTheShed]

I used to build my mini-SIPs with a perlite reservoir but found it didn't work that great with an organic mix, at least. You'll get a different type of root down there as well, something more like you'd get in DWC.

Now for the very small 9 oz SIPs, I use chunky type perlite for half the reservoir area (I tilt the cup when I fill it so the perlite sits on an angle) and then I fill the other half with soil so that there is a continuous soil area from the top to the very bottom of the cup.

I built my SWICK with soil in direct contact with the perlite reservoir all across the top and pushed down to ensure contact across the entire width of a 5 gallon bucket (so more than 5"), and the water barely wicked from the res to the soil that was about 1.5" above the water line.

My feeling is that it's soil that makes the wick work in a SIP.

 

[Azimuth]

My feeling is that it's soil that makes the wick work in a SIP.

I'd agree, although it might be more of a homogeneous mix situation. 100% perlite works great in Hempy's but it may be the abrupt change in aggregate size from perlite to soil that causes issues with the wicking in a SIP.

@ReservoirDog talked a lot about that in the SIP Club thread, how a layered soil mix approach was basically no bueno. Same concept here, probably.

 

[NickHardy]

Storm finally came in. Not much of one for these parts, this suggests to me the mesh I put over the airpot base is too fine for the root to get through maybe. The perlite wick is uncovered though - maybe there’s just not enough roots grown down through it yet.

Nick Hardy's Skunk Works #2 The Giant SIP Outdoor Soil: Thailand!

The card/envelope is prepared, they're ready to go - & Co keeps saying she forgot. I’ll give her nudge tomorrow when the wee bairn is back to school. EMS so a week to you I guess? :party::yummy::morenutes: :passitleft:

www.420magazine.com

It was cut out after that picture, sure of it.

Anyway she’s fine for now.