Newbie Ebb'r experiencing dismal results

[OneEyedWilly]

I have a 60cmX120cmX200cm grow tent that I've been soiling for the past 2 years with moderate results.

I decided to try hydro'ing as I've heard you can get better/larger fruits of labor.

Now, getting to the point of FIRST WATERING, I made some stupid mistakes.

Mistake#1) I took 10 klippings off my mothers just before going to a 12/12 routine and grew them in an aeroponics container, for over 2 months, as my tent was flowering for 2 months and then I use my tent to cure my harvest for 10 days. At about 65 days, some of the clones started to wilt even though I had replaced the water, recalibrating it to 6.4pH and 800ppm about every 3-4 weeks. By the time my previous harvest had cured, only 4 clones remained showing brownness/decay where the round rubber "holder" gripped the clones, and about 30% of the leaves being more than 50% yellow.

Mistake#2) I set up my new Ebb&Flow system, filled it with the SAME NUTRIENTS I used when soiling, measured the pH to 6.5, making sure they had extra Ca&Mg, transferred my plants into the buckets surrounded by clay pellets...and then switched it on...Mistake#2...I should've waited a few hours after switching the system on for it to acclimate before doing the pH&ppm measurements.

Mistake#3) Trying to "chase" the cart instead of being in front of the cart...FROM THE WRONG ROOM. After switching the pump on, the pH took a nose dive into the 5's. I attempted to correct this by adding pH+...TO THE WATER THAT WAS BEING PUMPED TO THE PLANTS. This caused a basic/acid swing directly being watered to the clones and I'm sure they were not the better for that.



Now...A week later, I see that the leaves on the plants are still yellow and there really isn't much growth. I was worried that I was not cut out to be a Hydro'er so I transplanted one of the plants into soil as a control where I see favorable growth occurring. I then started using the empty water bucket as my mixing pot. I check the pH and ppm's every other day and make adjustments accordingly. I've noticed that whenever I check, the pH seems to always be between 6.6 and 6.8...So I add pH down to the mixing pot, increase the water flow into that pot until the pH goes down to 6.3 and then reduce the water flow back down trying to keep just a small amount of acidic water being introduced from the mixing pot into the water stream being returned to the pumping pot, but I never seem to get the correct balance. Within 2-3 hours, the pH is back up to 6.6-6.8.

So...

Question#1) Can nutrients that I "believe" were meant to be used in soil, be used in a Hydroponics system?
Question#2) I have not seen ANY signs of "good" growth since using this E&F system...Is this normal, or is the dismal growth because the plants are trying to recuperate from my blunders?

 

[Roy Growin]

Been a long time since I ran ebb/flow but I do remember getting them to take was the tricky bit
My understanding is that soil nutes need to be broken down by microbes, whereas hydro nutes are chelated, meaning the elements are readily available in water @pH 5.5-6.2
Might still be able to save them if you can stabilise the pH and get some nutes to them quickly - good luck

 

[Bill284]

Ph should be 5.8.
Ppm at that age should be around 500 ppm.
And nutrient temp should be around 18c I believe.
78 f is too warm.
I’m not a hydro guy so my numbers are from other successful hydro guys.
Try and dial your nutrients in a bit.


Stay safe
Bill284

 

[OneEyedWilly]

Been a long time since I ran ebb/flow but I do remember getting them to take was the tricky bit
My understanding is that soil nutes need to be broken down by microbes, whereas hydro nutes are chelated, meaning the elements are readily available in water @pH 5.5-6.2
Might still be able to save them if you can stabilise the pH and get some nutes to them quickly - good luck

Thanks for your reply RG. That is what I was suspecting, too, that I am using the wrong type of nutes. Do you think that could also explain the pH problem, of always climbing back up to 6.7 after lower it?

I have removed 4L of water from the system and have replaced it with 4L of 6pH, no nutes. The system has been holding at 6.3pH, 700ppm for the last hour. I am going to do another round of water swapping tomorrow, this time adding the only nutes that I have on hand that I believe is water soluble (see picture below).

 

[OneEyedWilly]

Ph should be 5.8.
Ppm at that age should be around 500 ppm.
And nutrient temp should be around 18c I believe.
78 f is too warm.
I’m not a hydro guy so my numbers are from other successful hydro guys.
Try and dial your nutrients in a bit.


Stay safe
Bill284

Thanks for your reply Bill284...How do you control the temperature of a system that is exposed to high temps from the LED's? The only way I can think of is to add a cold plate such as the below...How do you control your temps?

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ats-tcp1001/advanced-thermal-solutions?utm_source=trustedparts&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=arrow_2024&utm_content=bnl&utm_keyword=ATS-TCP-1001

 

[Azimuth]

You could check out SIP Club for hydro type results in soil if you still want to use those nutes. (Link in my sig)

I don't grow hydro so canypt be of help there.

 

[Bill284]

Thanks for your reply Bill284...How do you control the temperature of a system that is exposed to high temps from the LED's? The only way I can think of is to add a cold plate such as the below...How do you control your temps?

https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ats-tcp1001/advanced-thermal-solutions?utm_source=trustedparts&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=arrow_2024&utm_content=bnl&utm_keyword=ATS-TCP-1001

A chiller will keep temps in line.
The other stuff you can adjust right away.
What are your lights set at?
It should be fairly low with young ones?
Once you turn it up you will need temp control.
Here is a vivosun one.

Stay safe
Bill284

 

[SmokingWings]

By the time my previous harvest had cured, only 4 clones remained showing brownness/decay where the round rubber "holder" gripped the clones, and about 30% of the leaves being more than 50% yellow.

Looking at the photos I am fairly sure that the cuttings are surviving on water and any nutrients that they can absorb through the stem. It looks like they did not grow roots.

You kept the cuttings in your aeroponics container for at least 2 months while the other plants flowered. Then another 10 days while drying the previous harvest plus whatever time was needed for the cure. So something like 11 weeks or more. Cut your losses and start over. Figure out the pH and temperature issues and get them stabilized. It may be better to start off again but with plants from seeds so you avoid having to deal with the rooting situation for now.

The cuttings often will grow new leaves even without roots but when that happens the new leaves are not large. If the cutting has developed roots then the new leaves will be larger than the previous set of leaves. And, the new leaves will be a healthier green. The more roots then the larger the new leaves and the better the color. Since the leaves have turned yellow and then brown and did not stay green these are not good signs.

Under good conditions the cutting should be growing roots by the time it is two weeks old. I do not have the best conditions for getting cuttings to root so I often give them up to 28-35 days as long as there is not any severe change in the color and health of the cutting. Otherwise I pull them from the cloning bucket and send them to the big compost pile in the sky.