Hey I’ve been growing for about 2 years for personal medical use, always smooth going now hitting some trouble. Previously ran Gaia Green dry amendments with success in coco/perlite and soil(happy frog) One experimental grow with coco/perlite using the medi one box set. During quarantine had to mix my remaining happy frog and left over coco perlite I had laying around to have enough medium to pull a tent load off. Been having either a deficiency or lockout in three of my photo’s (white widow from Canuck seeds) I have tried to recalibrate ph pen always water on point at a range of 6.3-6.6 that’s what has always worked for me in soil and coco. Tried a couple teas spaced out a week or so with water in between and just when the girls start looking like they’ve come around bam same thing. Linking a picture of a fan leaf of each of them for some tips and to verify they are all going through the same thing or maybe I can’t see the difference and they are all different.
New to forum 6 successful grows in now having problems: organics
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Almost looks like the soil is to hot
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Emilya Green
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Especially in a Fox Farm soil with its heavy buffering, you want to accurately pH adjust to the low side so as to take advantage of the strong upward drift of the soil. Coming in at 6.3 pH is almost required so as to still be able to pick up nutrients at the low end of the range. Your deficiency appears to be magnesium, and it could be because of the pH, but since you are not feeding, I think it a fair guess that the soil has run out of what you need in that regard.
I would suggest top dressing with a one time 1/2 tsp of epsom salt to get some mag in there quickly, and then start using a calmag supplement ... your plant looks like it is going to need it for the rest of the run. The damage seen wont go away, but I think you can stop its progression.
A tea isn't going to cut it for feeding this plant, unless by tea you mean some more Gia Green made into a nutrient solution. In soil, Teas are to supply microbes, not feed the plant, and the problem is that this is not a mineralized soil, so it doesn't have the large amounts of calcium, phosphorus and potassium in it that your plants are going to need, so all the microbes in the world applied to your soil still isnt going to be able to feed their needs. You are going to need to feed... and since you are in their soil, I suggest Fox Farm nutrients, but there are other good ones out there that are less expensive too. Get some calmag+ first, that is the immediate need, since the soil still has plenty of Nitrogen in it to keep it happy during veg, but very soon when you switch to flower, you are going to need some bloom nutes, fast. Maybe the Gia Green will be fine... I have never tried it. I just hesitate calling that a tea, being an organic gardener who specializes in making proper microbe teas. I hope it works, and want you to make me a believer. But, for now... get some calmag.
I would suggest top dressing with a one time 1/2 tsp of epsom salt to get some mag in there quickly, and then start using a calmag supplement ... your plant looks like it is going to need it for the rest of the run. The damage seen wont go away, but I think you can stop its progression.
A tea isn't going to cut it for feeding this plant, unless by tea you mean some more Gia Green made into a nutrient solution. In soil, Teas are to supply microbes, not feed the plant, and the problem is that this is not a mineralized soil, so it doesn't have the large amounts of calcium, phosphorus and potassium in it that your plants are going to need, so all the microbes in the world applied to your soil still isnt going to be able to feed their needs. You are going to need to feed... and since you are in their soil, I suggest Fox Farm nutrients, but there are other good ones out there that are less expensive too. Get some calmag+ first, that is the immediate need, since the soil still has plenty of Nitrogen in it to keep it happy during veg, but very soon when you switch to flower, you are going to need some bloom nutes, fast. Maybe the Gia Green will be fine... I have never tried it. I just hesitate calling that a tea, being an organic gardener who specializes in making proper microbe teas. I hope it works, and want you to make me a believer. But, for now... get some calmag.
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The teas I make have about 3 cups of organic worm castings and 3 tablespoons of 4-4-4 and 2-8-4. I wasn’t using them to feed I was hoping to boost the immunity and give a bit of health to the microbes thinking they might have needed a boost. The plants were top dressed a week ago and that’s more than enough food for a month. The Gaia green is tremendous stuff I’ve done multiple runs just with it and straight ph’d water. I was more or less thinking mixing the two mediums might have been the problem. It’s about 70% coco 20% happy frog and 10% perlite. Here’s some of the good grows to show the power of dry amendments and water.
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Emilya Green
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What you are doing is working, but its more the Gaia Green than anything else. The "tea" you are making is a nutrient soup along with a few non specific microbes. Your nutrient levels are at least 10 times higher in that soup than I would ever try to put in a microbe tea, you are feeding your plants. Just saying... since it is working for you, why change? But you are not making a proper microbe tea. There may be microbes in there, but what are they doing when they hit that non mineralized soil? There is nothing for them to eat, no raw minerals... everything you are supplying is ready to go and already available to the plant. The microbes are mostly superfluous, and just along for the ride. I strongly suspect you would get mostly the same results without them.
When I make a compost tea, I put about a tablespoon of the raw element that I want to have supplied to the plant. That mineral is readily available in my soil, in its raw form. For it be available to the plant, it must be processed by the specific microbes that work on that particular element, so I need to breed them in my bucket. The EWC or compost supplies the hordes of non specific microbes to the mix, but I only supply the food for one or two specific groups of microbes, those that work on the elements that I need to supply during that time of the grow. I have a tea for veg, a tea for bloom, a tea for starting to bud and a tea to finish out the grow. When I supply just those raw nutrients in the tea, only those specific microbes thrive, the rest die out. When I apply the tea to the soil, it has very little raw nutrient left in it, but it has gobs and gobs of microbes ready to go after just that thing in my soil and get it to the plant.
So that is why I say you are feeding with what you are doing, not really doing the organic thing as it should be. You are getting a little benefit from the microbes, but imagine how much more effective they could be with a targeted attack.
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The Gaia green isn’t available upon application it takes time to break down and become available so how isn’t there any raw material available for the microbes. I think you should google Gaia Green organic dry amendments and reference Mr. Canucks grow to understand further on YouTube.
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For example the 4-4-4 which is mainly used for veg and then 2-8-4 added for flower are a combination of Alfalfa meal, basalt Rick dust, bay guano, blood meal, bone meal, feather meal, fish bone meal, humate, glacial rock dust, greensand, gypsum, insect frass, mineralized phosphate, sulfate, oyster shell flour, and rock phosphate
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
blended in a way to be immediately available to the plants. For use as a tea, it is too general to be useful in generating microbes in the proportions that you need, everyone would be fighting each other, some of the critters winning out, others dying back in a huge free for all in your tea bucket but in no relation to the nutes that you need to supply today.
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As said previous it is NOT immediately available and I think you failed to have read the point of my tea it wasn’t to feed it was to replenish mostly the carbohydrates for microbes. Lots of Canadian Organic grows use this method with outstanding results. My question wasn’t on brewing teas it was what my deficiency was and maybe advice if it was an improper medium ph or maybe a critter I’m ill advised on.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
all I can do it give my opinion. If the method works well, like i said earlier, go for it... and if you wish to call it organic, that is fine. I do hope that the method starts working better for you and that your deficiencies go away... but remember, it was you who asked for the opinion. Sorry you didnt like my answer. Good luck!
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Oh I value your opinion and thanks for it. I’m just not thinking you are familiar with the line of amendments. They are certified organic along with the coco/perlite I use right down to the molasses haha. The only thing that isn’t is the happy frog and that was due to desperation caused by this damn covid haha I choose those products for that reason. Why don’t you think it’s organic.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I use 4-4-4 all the time, just not in the amounts you do, and I amend my containers with it in layers. I know good and well that some of it is readily available and some of it sits there for a while. I understand what you are doing, and am only quibbling over semantics at this point.
An organic thing means it is natural, not man made, and in that definition, that soil is organic. It is just as organic as the amendments you are throwing in there. Growing organically however doesn't just mean using natural components and throwing in a few microbes for good measure, it means using a minerally rich soil in which the microbes are required, let me say that again, required to bring those nutrients to the plant. There is no human interaction or supplements needed... supply water in an organic grow and the microbes do all the work for you. I didn't say that Happy Frog or your supplements were not organic, I said you are not conducting an organic grow in the true sense of the meaning, you are directly feeding your plants with organic fertilizer, with a few microbes thrown in to make things a little better. I said that your teas were not teas, they were mostly nutrient solutions, and although organic, this is not true organic growing. If you ceased to give your supplements and only gave water and microbes (using URB or Voodoo Juice or Realgrower's Recharge) your plants would quickly starve to death. In my highly mineralized super soil and a true organic feeding cycle going on, my plants would thrive.
An organic thing means it is natural, not man made, and in that definition, that soil is organic. It is just as organic as the amendments you are throwing in there. Growing organically however doesn't just mean using natural components and throwing in a few microbes for good measure, it means using a minerally rich soil in which the microbes are required, let me say that again, required to bring those nutrients to the plant. There is no human interaction or supplements needed... supply water in an organic grow and the microbes do all the work for you. I didn't say that Happy Frog or your supplements were not organic, I said you are not conducting an organic grow in the true sense of the meaning, you are directly feeding your plants with organic fertilizer, with a few microbes thrown in to make things a little better. I said that your teas were not teas, they were mostly nutrient solutions, and although organic, this is not true organic growing. If you ceased to give your supplements and only gave water and microbes (using URB or Voodoo Juice or Realgrower's Recharge) your plants would quickly starve to death. In my highly mineralized super soil and a true organic feeding cycle going on, my plants would thrive.
