Need help deciding on new light

[Thawk]

Hey guys,
I am in the process of saving up for another light, as of right now I have only bought my lights from hydroponics hut, and I am currently using a pg550, two PG 260's, and 4 50 w plasmas in a 4x8 area to flower. This has done well, but the plasmas cannot operate as standalone lights so I need to add more coverage and I wanted to see what the other lights out there were like in comparison. I have been browsing the forums and the two lights that have peaked my interest the most are the gs600 pro bloom and the advanced diamond LEDs. If anyone has a suggestion or a reason to go with one or the other please let me know... I have had a few issues with penetration so I am hoping I can pick up a light that will put even the 550 to shame.

 

[Durtee]

I just ordered 2 of these:

----------

Thank you for your message of 126x3W LED grow light on our website. This is Laura from E.shine Systems, we are a manufacturer and has been dealing with LED grow lights for years, hope we can help you with your plants.

Here is a brief introduction of 126x3W grow light:

Specs of 3G 378W LED Grow Light:

Rated Power

378W

LED Type

Epistar & Bridgelux
Voltage

AC85-260V

LED Quantity

126 (3W LEDs)
Input Current


1.2~0.48A


Lumens


9800lm

Operating Frequency


50Hz/60Hz


Lens


30, 60, 90 degree

Lighting Area


20-24 M²


Size(mm)


500 L x 300 W x 70 H

Lighting Time


10-16 hours/day


Weight


10kg

Combination:

660nm Red -- 60pcs
630nm Red -- 24pcs
440nm Blue -- 12pcs
470nm Blue -- 12pcs
730nm IR -- 12pcs
525nm Green -- 6pcs


Price: $289

Shipping cost depends on the total weight of the lights.

Warranty: 3 years,1-year complete, 2-year prorate.

For more details, please contact us at any time.

----------

Its supposed to be similar to the HGL126X1-PRO.

hope it gives you another to think about, a lot cheaper.

I'll post here when i get them.

 

[Vampire]

I like leds too; I used the UFO LED for 4 years continuously until 1/2 burnt out. It can be used throughout the grow and just like all the other type of lights, it penetrates around 8" down so I just do either small grows,lst or sogs with it. I do not recommend the led vegging lights, they are very weak; (I'm using 2 now) and I strongly recommend that you go with a reputable manufacture to buy em from. One such a company that I've researched is Advanced Leds, available right here at this site with very fair pricing. Easy enough to google Led manufacture ratings to see where each company stands. Good luck with your choice.

 

[Thawk]

I want personal experiences though... I want to know exactly what m goito be getting

 

[TorturedSoul]

I am in the process of saving up for another light, as of right now I have only bought my lights from hydroponics hut, and I am currently using a pg550, two PG 260's, and 4 50 w plasmas in a 4x8 area to flower. This has done well, but the plasmas cannot operate as standalone lights so I need to add more coverage and I wanted to see what the other lights out there were like in comparison. I have been browsing the forums and the two lights that have peaked my interest the most are the gs600 pro bloom and the advanced diamond LEDs. If anyone has a suggestion or a reason to go with one or the other please let me know... I have had a few issues with penetration so I am hoping I can pick up a light that will put even the 550 to shame.

I've been hearing that 600-watt and 1000-watt HPS setups grow decent cannabis.

Seriously, though, have you considered adding some type/wattage of HID to your LED mix? Perhaps on a light-mover (for a 32 square foot area with lights of different types/spectrum, I would suggest a "sun circle" type over the more common linear (light-rail) type because it would help ensure that every plant got the benefit of each light. You'd end up with a fuller spectrum. You'd save a fair amount of money on your initial equipment cost. Since the HPS - or MH, if you prefer - would only make up a portion of your total lighting, you would not have the same amount of heat to deal with as had you gone with all HIDs. There's no beating the penetrative ability of a good HPS/MH (well... unless you want to add sulfur plasma lighting to your list of choices, and they can be quite expensive - although, oddly enough, not prohibitively so compared to some of the LED prices I've seen - and I am not sure where they are at right now as far as development/maturity). And enough people have gotten one gram per watt (or more) out of HIDs to prove that they are (at the very least) adequate.

Personally, I feel that until LED development matures a little more, willingness to mix different lighting technologies together in order to get the best of each while minimizing the worst is probably the best idea. It is, of course, only my opinion (and I must add the disclaimer that I have not been lucky enough to try growing with LEDs yet, so my opinion comes only from research about LED technology and reading others' journals).

126x3W LED grow light

Specs of 3G 378W LED Grow Light:

Rated Power

378W

LED Quantity

126 (3W LEDs)

Now that's interesting. And it tends to make a statement about the honesty/integrity of your seller (IMHO). You've got (126) 3-watt LEDS. That gives you a maximum of 378 watts. However, manufacturers do not drive their LEDs at the maximum rated power because longevity takes a big hit. So, when I read that they list the rated powe at 378 watts... I get suspicious.

Other than that, the wording/language used points to the person ("Laura") actually being named Lee Ho Fook or the like and being a Chinese citizen in the Shenzhen area of the "Peoples'" Republic of China (other areas in the PRC are likely to use a human translator and people in Hong Kong who do international business tend to be proficient in English).

There are a couple of potential issues here. First, that area is known for producing a great many garbage products; there used to be a common saying that went something like, "Bring us someone's product and we will produce a cheap knockoff that works almost as well, looks almost as good, lasts almost as long, and is almost as safe - for less money. And if you don't mind redefining the word "almost" then we can do it even cheaper." Now, to be fair they do let the occasional item of decent quality slip out of there. And many LEDs that other companies sell are made there (often in the same factories, lofl). They make a LOT of products for China*M- I mean Wal*Mart there (which doesn't exactly speak highly for them on any level <SHRUGS>). But a lot of the products coming from there are produced with the expectation that they will end up in an American landfill and the sure knowledge that the people who lined up to buy them only to later line up to b!tch about the poor quality... Will soon enough be lining up to purchase the next something from them; they know well that we Americans have the shortest attention spans of any human nationality, that we are considered to be "a bit thick between the ears," and that we - in general, as a nation - happily trash our dignity and integrity for (real or perceived) convenience. IOW, they really have no reason to suddenly start producing quality merchandise because - surprise - we just keep on buying their junk.

Uhh... Might have ranted a bit there, lol. Which doesn't mean it's not relevant, but I'll stop and go on to the second thing to consider: If those lights are, in fact, being drop-shipped to you from a Chinese supplier instead of being shipped from a business that is located in the United States (one which might have spare parts and replacements on hand in their inventory)... What are you going to do for light when your LEDs break down and you've got to send them all the way to the PRC for examination/repair/replacement and you know that you'll be without them for a time because of the extra time involved with shipping, US Customs, the time the return package will spend sitting in the ISC (a place where thousands of packages have been known to disappear forever due to the thieves that work at most ISCs (I've read repeatedly that the one in NY is the worst; if you live on the other side of the country it's not so bad)), et cetera? Your plants aren't going to be happy with no light.

 

[Thawk]

TorturedSoul,
In all honesty yes I wish I could add an HID to the mix, as I had one in a previous grow and it definitely helped put on penetration considerably. However I only have roughly 6 feet at the the very peak of the room, and closer to 4 feet at the edges ( it is in an attic.) I really don't think that I would be able to run any hid 's up there with that type of space, and also it gets close to 90 evem with an ac unit going full blast up there in summer with only LEDs. I would add a nice 600 w hps right in the ,middle if I could but I just don't see being able to get away with it. Any other suggestions?

 

[Thawk]

Also in the even I did try to go the 600 watt hps route, what type of ballast and reflector would be the coolest and best for flowering? I have very little knowledge in the department of HID's

 

[TorturedSoul]

Ouch, yeah I probably wouldn't even attempt to install an HPS of greater than 400 watts. That might be doable with good airflow and a scrog setup to keep height civilized. And possibly a DWC setup (with some sort of cooling) in order to keep the root zone cool and well-oxygenated.

Growing in attics sucks. Been there. Would prefer not to relive the experience. Best of luck to you.

I take it that you don't live in an area where you could install a skylight and grow with the aid of the sun without possible difficulties?

 

[TorturedSoul]

Also in the even I did try to go the 600 watt hps route, what type of ballast and reflector would be the coolest and best for flowering? I have very little knowledge in the department of HID's

Sealed reflector for sure, so you could vent its heat - and separately from the ventilation of the grow room in general, both for more efficiency and to make your carbon filter work better / last longer. Which it would, having less heat in the GR exhaust and not needing so much airflow... while the heat from the light would be hot but would not smell like cannabis. Probably well-worth the additional complexity - if you have the room for everything in your space.

Digital ballast. It'd run cooler than the old style C&C (magnetic) and hurt a lot less if you drop it on your foot (lol). My gut tells me to go with a completely sealed unit as opposed to one which includes a fan. Seems like such a creature - along with its finned-heatsink design - would be a good design for shedding heat, and one can always aim a separate fan at it. Suggest locating it outside of your grow so its heat won't add to the problem. Also suggest a dimmable one, my 400-watt Lumatek can drive a 400-watt HPS or MH bulb at 250-watts (or drive a 250-watt bulb at 250 watts). Their 600-watt versions will do the same with 400-watt bulbs. Handy for early vegetative where you don't need the full output, handy when you're fighting temperature escalation and still want to use it as much as possible. When temperatures permit, crank it back up to 100% or beyond (it also has a "super lumen" setting which is about a 10% overdrive).

Something to keep in mind that just as plants get more illumination at local noon than they do at dawn/dusk, you always have the option of setting one or more of your lights on a separate timer to only come on during part of the "day." Combined with the dimmable function of a good digital ballast, and you are a far cry from the old school of thought (being "full power full-time," lol) and have options.

Which doesn't make it snow in July, of course. Again, attic gardening sucks.

I like my Lumatek and recognize it as a quality bit of kit. But I cannot say that it is better than any particular digital ballast. It is the only non C&C brand that I have experience with. I notice that we have a few sponsors offering their own digital ballast setups now and with that comes the opportunity for two-way communications (and possibly some good deals). And, of course, supporting the sponsors who pay to keep this site up and running - and free for us to use - doesn't hurt, either. I would look at recent threads in our sponsors' forums and contact some of them for advice and to see what kind of deal you might get.

You might be able to get by with a 600-watt setup, possibly, with good cooling/ventilation, a little luck, and decent weather. The 400-watt ones would of course generate less heat on maximum, but a 200-watt difference might be a 200 gram difference at harvest time if you've got everything dialed in (assuming that the extra heat of the 600-watt one didn't actually hurt your yield). The 400-watt one would allow you to drop to 250 watts, while a 600-watt ballast probably won't go that low. So each has its pros and cons. You'll have to consider everything and make that decision yourself. Perhaps our sponsors can offer useful insight? They'll want to make a sale but they'll also want a satisfied customer with a usable setup - everyone wins that way.

I forget (if you mentioned it), do you supplement your CO2? Doing so can help your plants thrive in a higher temperature range than they would with only nominal atmospheric levels.

 

[Thawk]

Tortured,
As of recent I have slacked on the CO2 as I have been busy with some other stuff but I do keep three or four bags of CO2 producing fungi hanging in the room at most times, and I am hoping that temps will be manageable due to the ac unit that I have, and I really am wanting to try for a 600 watt with the option of using a 400. I am fairly sure that I would be able to independently vent the hps, and I could run its exhaust right next to the carbon filter's which is spitting out of the attic fan. One thing I haven't considered but may make a huge difference would be changing my room hours to night hours durng the summer so maybe instead of say 10am-pm... 10 pm-am.... Could significantly help with temps. But while I have your attention and you know a good bt about hps I am also going to need to have a reflector that I can fit in this somewhat small space. I have very little hanging room because all the plants are close to 3 feet tall, I was looking at cool tubes, but they don't seem any better than any other sealed reflector. I'm going to do a little looking around if none of the sponsors hop in on this chance to sell me one of their systems. I just can't justify spending 1300 on a light that still leaves me disappointed.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Well at least you won't have $1300 in a good HPS setup. Even counting the refector, bulb, ballast, and optional light-mover (and probably fan/ductwork as well).

I feel the traditional ventilated (aka "sealed") reflector beats the cool tube on one front for sure: Only having a flat glass lens in the bottom, the light broadcast upwards from the bulb that must reflect off the reflector's surface before reaching your plants only has to travel through one piece of glass, but in a cool tube it hits the upper glass portion of the tube, the reflector directly above it, back through the glass, and through the bottom portion of the glass. Reflected light is not as strong, and it'll be attenuated/filtered once regardless... But it's light that's "already paid for" at that point, so anything you can do to maximize the amount you actually use (amount that hits the plants) is... Well, it's not free because as mentioned you already pay the electric bill for it, but at the same time, you're already paying for it, lol.

My experience with sealed reflectors is pretty limited to a Sun System 2 and the ones that the hydro shop sold me way back when when I walked in and said, "I need to buy some equipment. How much? Well, how much do you think we can get into that ancient station wagon I just backed up to your door? And it has a roof rack..." (Interesting trip that day, was leaving a large city with the vehicle packed/loaded, had a blowout on busy interstate at speed, sailed sideways, took out one of those plastic barrels - turns out my dad was only kidding, they don't actually fill them with concrete to make sure that idiot drives don't make a game of hitting them - and had to unload about 65% of my purchases along the side of the road to get to the spare tire/jack. I guess the 10,000 police (might have been three - but it seemed like more at the time ) that passed me saw the out of state tags and figured it was someone else's problem.) That was years back, on my first "store-bought" hydro mission.

The traditional sealed reflectors... many of them have the "overcoat" insulation option that might help, especially if you're stuck placing it close to the roof. Every degree helps.

They make ones that are made to produce a larger footprint. Probably meant for 1000-watt bulbs, hung a little higher and lighting an entire area. That might be one to consider because you can drop it closer to the plants without having your footprint narrow to a line on the floor, IDK.

There were times when I ended up with the buds touching the glass in my old 400s. Probably not good (was warm, not hot, but...) but it didn't kill the plants and I don't recommend it as a rule. But it shows that leaving "not much" of a gap is doable. Not sure about the higher illumination of a 600/1000, though.

Probably best to ask the retailer(s) that you contact or to look at specs, most of them list a height. Allow some (what you can) for clearance. A hot-spot on a roof is unlikely, lol, you can't lay the underneath of your arm on one in August when working on it,, but it probably wouldn't hurt your garden as far as air circulation and all that.

And I don't know how much and how steadily those CO2 bio-buckets produce. If you're going to end up with significant light in a small area and will have heat to deal with (over the low-mid 80s?), it might be time to start saving for a tank/valve/controller so you can give a calculated amount. Of course if you have to constant-vent the general space it's a RPitA, but with the light on a separate run maybe you can vent the space in bursts? IDK.

I can't speak for the quality of the components because I've not tried them, but HydroPro has a 600-watt package deal:
600W Grow Kit at Only $285 Shipped!

and DigitalGrow has a special on their 600-watt (and 1Kw) ballasts and will soon be offering a package deal:
600W Digital Ballast $149.99 Shipped! 2 x 600W Digital Ballast $279.98 Shipped!

Just a couple of choices. There are many combinations out there and I think there are other sponsors that offer these kinds of products, but I wanted to mention the two who have taken their sponsorship to the next level and are participating on the forum.

 

[Hey Buddy]

I just ordered 2 of these:

----------

Thank you for your message of 126x3W LED grow light on our website. This is Laura from E.shine Systems, we are a manufacturer and has been dealing with LED grow lights for years, hope we can help you with your plants.

Here is a brief introduction of 126x3W grow light:

Specs of 3G 378W LED Grow Light:

Rated Power

378W

LED Type

Epistar & Bridgelux
Voltage

AC85-260V

LED Quantity

126 (3W LEDs)
Input Current


1.2~0.48A


Lumens


9800lm

Operating Frequency


50Hz/60Hz


Lens


30, 60, 90 degree

Lighting Area


20-24 M²


Size(mm)


500 L x 300 W x 70 H

Lighting Time


10-16 hours/day


Weight


10kg

Combination:

660nm Red -- 60pcs
630nm Red -- 24pcs
440nm Blue -- 12pcs
470nm Blue -- 12pcs
730nm IR -- 12pcs
525nm Green -- 6pcs


Price: $289

Shipping cost depends on the total weight of the lights.

Warranty: 3 years,1-year complete, 2-year prorate.

For more details, please contact us at any time.

----------

Its supposed to be similar to the HGL126X1-PRO.

hope it gives you another to think about, a lot cheaper.

I'll post here when i get them.

Hi there, I too am searching for LED lights as high electricity bills in summer is a big signal where I am from so Im wondering is there much point in me shopping for LED's from a US site as shipping is probably gonna be tripling the cost?? Below are the details for a 45OW LED Im seeing for €500 / $660 from a UK seller...

Is it any use?

450W LED Features & Benefits
§ 80% more energy efficient than Metal Halide or HPS lamps - Drastically reduce your electric bill

§ No expensive bulbs to replace - Zero maintenance costs -

§ Large 50 square foot coverage area

§ Can be used with any indoor growing method - hydroponics, aeroponics, soil

§ Discreet - No thermal footprint

§ No need for additional cooling equipment, ballasts or reflectors

§ Safe to operate - no risk of fire, burns or exploding bulbs

§ Weighs only 6kg

§ 50,000+ hour life cycle

§ Environmentally friendly

§ Two year warranty

Usage Info
Recommended height (based on 1 to 2 sqm coverage):
2-4 feet (adjust as needed)

Recommended lighting time (adjust as needed)
Vegetative Stage: 14-18 hours
Flowering Stage: 10-12 hours

Item Description : High power LED Grow Light 450W
Input Voltage: AC 100-260V
Input Carrent:3.33mA-1.15A
Power consumption:310W
LED Qty: 3W brigdlux LED
Wavelength : Red660nm/ 620-630nm/256PCS & Blue 460-465nm
Luminous Flux:31,520Lmlm
Red led Wavelength is:660nm and 620-630nm;
Blue led Wavelength is:460-465nm;
UV, IR 730nm and warm white.
Lighting Area1 to:4M²

Size: 440mm*280mm*60mm
Material: PMMA, Aluminium alloy
N.W.: 4.7KG
Average rated life: 50, 000hours
Ambient humidity: 85%
working environment:-20~40C
The different wavelength led proportion on customers request

 

[Thawk]

Haha that story about you breaking down takes me back... I got robbed once and in order to save my plant I was driving down the road with a UFO running in my trunk haha. But I have considered 1000 watts, but honestly I don't think I have the electrical capacity on the breaker, and also that starts to get in to me worrying about helicopters looking for thermal signatures... They are all over the place here. I was thinking that even running a 600 watt at nght time would have no visible reading... Especially if cooled and vented, thoughts? I like the hydropro deal but honestly it looks to me like digital grow has a more solid product so I am hoping their package deal will work perfectly for me. As far as CO2, because the grow room is not totally sealed I don't think it will be cost effective to do a real CO2 setup, plus I did see an improvement in the room with the bags there, and a decrease in production with them not in there( have recently turned white). But I'm gonna do some measurements today and hopefully I'll be able to get to work on this hps before all my new strains finish flowering...

 

[kushgrower26]

wow great imput thanks

 

[Thawk]

Thought I'd sum this up just in case, I decided to go with hydropro 's package deal, I was able to get everythng I need, including a fan, for under 350. Very excited for them to get here. I am planning on documenting the new grow as I am going to switch of to the 2L hempy SOG method with 6 or 7 different strains. Thanks for your help everyone.