My newest young plant in coco got nuked - How did that happen?

[Acid]

So I usually take good care to not break any rules with my plants, as I already learned a ton from severe mistakes in the past.

I'm currently trying my hand on my first 70/30 coco/perlite grow, with canna coco nutrients. My tapwater is dechlorinated, oxygenated, and sitting at an EC of ~0.4, a bit less. I feed this plant 1.0-1.1 EC once a day with some runoff. PH is always between 5.8 and 6.0 in most cases. Light intensity is even a little less than it should be, it's at around 300PPFD. Temps are a little low, 74F currently, going down to 64-67 at night. Humidity a bit lower too because the temps are a bit low, so it's hovering at 50-55% to make sure it's at least somewhat fine if I go by VPD.

This plant was already a bit lighter of a green from the beginning. The leaves were a bit thinner (paper-like) than I like, but it grew fine. Yesterday, my plant already looked beaten up out of nowhere. It was fine the day before. Strange brown spots everywhere, leaves curling up, the list is long. I watered once again as usual, and read the runoff EC and PH just because. EC was at 1.0, PH was at 6.8

Today.. it's pretty much a lost cause. I still have hope though, as there's some green left. It's literally dying by the hour, getting worse and worse. I didn't know what to do, so I flushed heavily to get everything outta there. Then I fed with 1.0 EC, just the basic A+B nutrients, and small amounts of calmag because coco. The substrate is already buffered though.

What's happening here? The leaves crisp up, curl up, death is just everywhere, and it happened so quickly, even though I changed nothing at all. The main stem also feels a bit wonky, it isn't hard and steady anymore, it's a bit easier to bend than it was before. Is it because I use organic citric acid as PH down with my hydro nutrients? My tapwater PH is at 8.1, so I can't live without ph down. I did a little test a few days ago, made a batch of feed water, PHed it at 5.7, let it sit on the counter, and it was at 6.8 after one night. Possible that this is killing my plants?

I also wanna note that the oldest growth looks healthy for some reason. The first set of leaves, you know. They're fine for whatever reason, but everything else is dying.

EDIT: I just sadly noticed that my biggest of them is suddenly showing similar early symptoms. I'm doing something severely wrong here, something's off.

 

[Mike Wright]

I have had similar issues in the past and I think it always comes back to ph. I use a commercial PH down product. From what I read, organic ph down solutions may not be that stable. It looks like ph to me.

I have completely repotted, including cleaning the rootball, to save plants in this condition.

 

[Acid]

I have had similar issues in the past and I think it always comes back to ph. I use a commercial PH down product. From what I read, organic ph down solutions may not be that stable. It looks like ph to me.

I have completely repotted, including cleaning the rootball, to save plants in this condition.

You won't believe how sad I am, because I ordered a commercial PH down with phosphoric acid (GH PH down), it should've arrived yesterday already. It'll probably reach me on tuesday, but I guess by then the small one will be 100% a lost cause. There are no shops for this stuff anywhere around me, as I live extremely remote, so I had to order it.

This PH suspicion has always been a bad gut feeling, but the opinions are so different everywhere. Others swear on citric acid even in coco, but I guess their waters PH is just generally fine? If I feed my nutrient-enriched water without PH correction, these plants would die in a week.

How would you go about cleaning the rootball? I might just do that when the other ph stuff arrives. I've had the rootball in my hands already when I repotted it from seedling to first pot, and it was solid as a rock, all just root material. I feel like I'd have to remove tons of root material in that case

 

[Roy Growin]

Certainly agree it looks pH related
Lower leaves look like they are losing their N & K, which is less available at low pH
The micros however are generally absorbed at the lower end and shows in new growth
Looks like you are getting the micros but not enough NPK,CaMg
The range for Canna Coco A/B is 5.8-6.2 ~ 5.6 is the extreme end where you will start to see deficiencies
Try raising the pH to 6.0 so you are guaranteed to be in range [with a margin for error] - if I'm correct you will see the new growth turn a darker green almost overnight
Seaweed extract will improve nutrient uptake if you have any

 

[Acid]

Certainly agree it looks pH related
Lower leaves look like they are losing their N & K, which is less available at low pH
The micros however are generally absorbed at the lower end and shows in new growth
Looks like you are getting the micros but not enough NPK,CaMg
The range for Canna Coco A/B is 5.8-6.2 ~ 5.6 is the extreme end where you will start to see deficiencies
Try raising the pH to 6.0 so you are guaranteed to be in range [with a margin for error] - if I'm correct you will see the new growth turn a darker green almost overnight
Seaweed extract will improve nutrient uptake if you have any

Yeah 6.0 ph as input was already used, I try to throw every feeding in the range of 5.8-6, sometimes also 6.1

I feel more and more like the citric acid is at fault once again, it works 100% fine in the organic stuff I use, but it seems to obliterate the coco grow with hydro nutrients because of the severe jump in PH in just a few hours. As I mentioned in the post above, the nutrient solution goes up 1+ PH from 5.7 to 6.8 in just ~12 hours when I let it sit. I don't think this quick spike is welcome in coco, or?

I do have seaweed extract, I will use it in the next watering until the other ph regulator stuff arrives, thanks!

 

[Roy Growin]

Yeah 6.0 ph as input was already used, I try to throw every feeding in the range of 5.8-6, sometimes also 6.1

I feel more and more like the citric acid is at fault once again, it works 100% fine in the organic stuff I use, but it seems to obliterate the coco grow with hydro nutrients because of the severe jump in PH in just a few hours. As I mentioned in the post above, the nutrient solution goes up 1+ PH from 5.7 to 6.8 in just ~12 hours when I let it sit. I don't think this quick spike is welcome in coco, or?

I do have seaweed extract, I will use it in the next watering until the other ph regulator stuff arrives, thanks!

Maybe let it sit before you add nutes or adjust pH, maybe your water has loads of carbonates or something
Incidentally, how many ml/L of A/B are you using? Should be 3-4ml/L of each

*edit* pH swing shouldn't be a problem - remember pH is for the nutrients, not the plants

 

[Smokey0418]

I think I would try more fertilizer.
Throw your ppm out the window as you don’t know what it’s made up of.
Imho your watering with 250-275ppm.

 

[Acid]

Maybe let it sit before you add nutes or adjust pH, maybe your water has loads of carbonates or something
Incidentally, how many ml/L of A/B are you using? Should be 3-4ml/L of each

It's sitting for 24+ hours usually, it's a ~4 gallon water bucket that gets aerated most of the time.

I use around 2ml of a/b each on a little less than 1L (calculated with the canna coco schedule), so I reach an EC of 1.0 currently. My bigger plant which slowly shows similar symptoms, gets around 1.6EC of feeding, but I don't know how much ML I fed it. I think it was 3 something ML of each A/B, with the supplements of rhizotonic and cannazym to get to 1.6EC

 

[Roy Growin]

I think I would try more fertilizer.
Throw your ppm out the window as you don’t know what it’s made up of.
Imho your watering with 250-275ppm.

That is the reason I don't use ppm/EC, it's just another complication trying to balance it
Can't go wrong with ml/L

 

[Roy Growin]

It's sitting for 24+ hours usually, it's a ~4 gallon water bucket that gets aerated most of the time.

I use around 2ml of a/b each on a little less than 1L (calculated with the canna coco schedule), so I reach an EC of 1.0 currently. My bigger plant which slowly shows similar symptoms, gets around 1.6EC of feeding, but I don't know how much ML I fed it. I think it was 3 something ML of each A/B, with the supplements of rhizotonic and cannazym to get to 1.6EC

Rhizo/Zyme are not necessary, especially if you are just adding it to get to a supposed number
1ml/L CaMg, 3-4ml/L A/B is all you really need, irrespective of EC

 

[Acid]

Rhizo/Zyme are not necessary, especially if you are just adding it to get to a supposed number
1ml/L CaMg, 3-4ml/L A/B is all you really need, irrespective of EC

I imagine the BioBizz CalMag stuff is fine to use, or? Not that I'm also killing the coco plant with that stuff too, that'd suck.

 

[Roy Growin]

I imagine the BioBizz CalMag stuff is fine to use, or? Not that I'm also killing the coco plant with that stuff too, that'd suck.

Yes - the dosage is given on the label in ml/L

 

[Th3Grow3rNooB]

Have you tried a fungicide / Mite Spray dear sir ? I have a similar problem, I see little brown spots on leaves that maybe look like poo ? Could be wrong. No bad guys or mold on under side off leaves etc ?

Also mate, im new, but the number 1 rule is never let coco dry, looks very dry on top, again tho, im not the best source of material haha.

 

[Acid]

So it's day 3 of the nuke. The big plant is getting worse and worse now, too. I'm completely clueless. There are no pests luckily, the brown "spots" you see here and there is just coco / substrate dust, I already checked that. I'm a bit clumsy with repotting I checked under the leaves, on top, the stems, there's just nothing at all. My fungus gnat trap only caught one single gnat in the past few weeks, and I haven't seen any other flying around so far.

The dryness on top of the big coco pot appears rather quickly, but right now I have a new problem :

They stopped drinking or something. The substrate doesn't become dry as quickly anymore, it stays moist. It usually takes a few hours for the substrate to become "dry" on the first 1-2 milimeters, now it stays wet. The growth completely and fully stopped on both plants, too, no change in size on the newest nodes, still the same as 3-4 days ago.

Leaves on the big plant keep curling now, brown spots everywhere, dying leaves all over the place, the stems seem flimsy and not thick anymore, and the small plant.. well, I don't even wanna comment on that one anymore.

I don't know how this all happened, as I haven't changed anything. I get water, oxygenate it for 24+ hours to get the chlorine out. Then into a 1L cup. I use a small drop of silica, then some biobizz calmag, and then canna coco nutrients, all mixed well, no cloudyness or anything. Then I PH it down to 5.8-6.1, and water the plant with some runoff. The big plant loved it, the main stem became thick and woody, it was thriving. And now out of nowhere it's suddenly showing the same symptoms as the smaller plant, which was a bit light-green from the beginning, and suddenly started dying. The bigger plant also has abstract growth on the newer leaves, lots of new three finger leaves, missing fingers here and there, it's regressing for some reason.

I did check on the root system of the smaller severely ill plant. It's.. healthy. Big roots everywhere, all white, there is no rot. Yet the main stem still feels weaker and softer by the day, almost like rubber.

It can't be the enviroment. I still have a third autoflower plant, and besides a severe shock because I topped it, it's praying, dark green, and healthy. It just had a severe iron deficiency because for whatever reason, but it's growing all out and she's thriving. She isn't in coco though, she's in organic peat with the biobizz nutrient line, which concludes that I f-ed something up with the coco grow itself.

 

[Bill284]

You need to put calmag in your plain water first.
Mix that well then add your nutrients as recommended by the schedule.
Lastly set ph to 5.8.
Feed every day, keeping your coco moist at all times.
Never let it dry.
This should clear up your problem.
Let me know if you still have issues, I'm always available.
Take care my friend.




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[Acid]

You need to put calmag in your plain water first.
Mix that well then add your nutrients as recommended by the schedule.
Lastly set ph to 5.8.
Feed every day, keeping your coco moist at all times.
Never let it dry.
This should clear up your problem.
Let me know if you still have issues, I'm always available.
Take care my friend.




#VIVOSUN #Love What You Grow
Bill284

I do Silica (Description warned me to add this at the very beginning, it's Aptus Regulator) -> CalMag -> Coco A - > B, then Rhizotonic and Cannazym if I feel like it. I mix between every addition so it's all dispersed. PH is usually steady between 5.8 and 6.1, so I feel like something else is severely destroying everything right now, especially because my big plant is now showing the same symptoms as my small plant, while the organic plant in a different substrate is absolutely healthy.

 

[Bill284]

I do Silica (Description warned me to add this at the very beginning, it's Aptus Regulator) -> CalMag -> Coco A - > B, then Rhizotonic and Cannazym if I feel like it. I mix between every addition so it's all dispersed. PH is usually steady between 5.8 and 6.1, so I feel like something else is severely destroying everything right now, especially because my big plant is now showing the same symptoms as my small plant, while the organic plant in a different substrate is absolutely healthy.

Silicate messes with the other nutrients.
Don't mix it with nutrients.
Once a week in veg after feeding I give every girl a drink of Silicate.
Otherwise you have to wait forever for it to setup properly.
Just skip the Silicate for now anyway.
Until they are healthy.




Stay safe
Bill284

 

[Roy Growin]

Silicate messes with the other nutrients.
Don't mix it with nutrients.
Once a week in veg after feeding I give every girl a drink of Silicate.
Otherwise you have to wait forever for it to setup properly.
Just skip the Silicate for now anyway.
Until they are healthy.




Stay safe
Bill284

Good point Bill - I don't bother with it at all any more

 

[Th3Grow3rNooB]

Are you're leaves creating some kind of pimple perforation underneath the affected one for my own curiosity ? I Dont mean to complicate things, its just my Gorilla Glue Clones showed exactly the same issue. They ate themselves bottom up. I took all precautions, but I ended up tossing as I had another strain that was taking off and I didn't want to cross contaminate incase it was infectious. My only thought was mold as I knew 0 bugs were present.

Also, you say you use Aptus ? Isn't that a new nutrient line that only requires 1 bottle that performs as both A+B ?

 

[bluter]

feed right at 5.8, don't start higher, it'll drift upward as the plant feeds. listen to bill and feed at least once a day in coco, don't let it dry out.

Are you're leaves creating some kind of pimple perforation underneath the affected one for my own curiosity ? I Dont mean to complicate things, its just my Gorilla Glue Clones showed exactly the same issue. They ate themselves bottom up. I took all precautions, but I ended up tossing as I had another strain that was taking off and I didn't want to cross contaminate incase it was infectious. My only thought was mold as I knew 0 bugs were present.

doesn't sound like mold. start a thread the next time you spot an issue and include pics.