o MR BUD o
New Member
my leaves are curling, is it down to the drop in my ph levels!!!!
- Thread starter o MR BUD o
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Grand Daddy Purp
New Member
I am not a hydro guy but think that PH could very well be the problem when it is dropping like that. You are showing that there are some lock outs as well. How is you PH fluctuating that much are you PHing the water before you top of your res? I am trying to figure out why you are having this issue and am at a loss.
Smokemupm8
New Member
I maybe wrong, IM NOT A HYDRO EITHER - but if I remember correctly it may be a Maganese defic. or Magnesium? I cannot recall 100% but I do remember reading something saying that the leaves are reaching up and its a sign theyre reaching out for one of them nutes? Sorry I am not 100%, but I think I googled it and had to go thru a few pages before I found out..
Since your PH is affected, you may need that chart of ' nute in take of plants at certain PH levels ' it just shows what nutes the plant can take in at what PH, so getting your PH in the right area may help as you could be locking out certain nutrients.. I do have it SOMEWHERE in my completed journal below in my Signature, tho I dont know what page!!! Ya could be there for days!! lol.. Someone may be able to post it for you if they have it. GOODLUK BUDY... Smokemup
Since your PH is affected, you may need that chart of ' nute in take of plants at certain PH levels ' it just shows what nutes the plant can take in at what PH, so getting your PH in the right area may help as you could be locking out certain nutrients.. I do have it SOMEWHERE in my completed journal below in my Signature, tho I dont know what page!!! Ya could be there for days!! lol.. Someone may be able to post it for you if they have it. GOODLUK BUDY... Smokemup
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
Mmm looks like ya got soft water 
If i was you, you can do a little research on your water supply to double check whether it is soft but i do suspect it is as Smokemup kindly point out a Mg - Magnesium defeciency which is a reasonable common def assoicated to soft water & RO water supplys !
If you don't already use a magnesium/calcium supplement you may wish to start using one.
You also can start looking at harding up your own water with the use of calcium carbonate (alkline) aka baking soda to help maintain Ph level...
Test it out in a bucket filled with nutrient water & monitor results.
Unfortunaly i can not remember correct dosage rate but not much greater than a tea spoon or 2 in rez tank.
If i was you, you can do a little research on your water supply to double check whether it is soft but i do suspect it is as Smokemup kindly point out a Mg - Magnesium defeciency which is a reasonable common def assoicated to soft water & RO water supplys !
If you don't already use a magnesium/calcium supplement you may wish to start using one.
You also can start looking at harding up your own water with the use of calcium carbonate (alkline) aka baking soda to help maintain Ph level...
Test it out in a bucket filled with nutrient water & monitor results.
Unfortunaly i can not remember correct dosage rate but not much greater than a tea spoon or 2 in rez tank.
Smokemupm8
New Member
I used Citric acid to raise PH I think, and also Baking soda to lower or vice versa?? But yeah, the Citric acid id very strong, adding a quart of a teaspoon to 10L of water it can raise the PH from 6 - 7.5 in a flash!! So I used to add small amount stir, let it sit, then stir again, then do a PH test on that.. And yeah a cal/mag feed as good ol FUZZY said
May prevent any further probs.. Goodluck buddy. Smokemup
May prevent any further probs.. Goodluck buddy. Smokemup- Thread starter
- #6
o MR BUD o
New Member
hey guys sorry it took me so long too reply and i do appriciate your responce and feed back!!! since my problem i have read some where that when the ph in your res rise's up or stay's stable that that is a sign that your plants are healthy and happy but when the ph in your res keeps dropping down and especially at the alarming rate that my ph was dropping too that that is a sign that your plants aint so happy or so healthy as thats a sign that its suffering from pest's or pathegens in the root zone and its the plants themselves that are dropping the ph down as a defence mechanism to try and fight off the pathergens in the root zone by dropping the ph to an uncomportable level for the pathergens to live in!!! "tacticalgrow" i was only using un PHed water to up the ph in my res and i was told that if i had used ph up insted that that would of been easier to stabalized the ph in my rez though im not shore if its ok to use ph up when you've been using ph down in your res so if anyone can answer that i would be grateful!!!!! the best thing i could of done but which i didn't know at the time was to add some stuff to my res which would of combated and got rid of the pathergens that my plants roots were suffering with and you guys were right when you say that my plants were suffering with a cal and mag deficiency and i wern't using a cal mag supplement at the time "fuzzy duck" but i will be doing so from now on!!!! thanks for all your help people
- Thread starter
- #7
o MR BUD o
New Member
sorry people i got my information slightly wrong as in if your ph rise's dramatically high over a one night period say from 5.8 to 7.8 then that is a bacterial infection and if your ph drops dramatically low over a one night period say from 5.8 to 4.0 then that is a fungal infection which is what my plants roots were suffering with!!! 
)
)
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
sorry people i got my information slightly wrong as in if your ph rise's dramatically high over a one night period say from 5.8 to 7.8 then that is a bacterial infection and if your ph drops dramatically low over a one night period say from 5.8 to 4.0 then that is a fungal infection which is what my plants roots were suffering with!!!
Thats some pretty good info
I've seen plenty of peeps mention PH swings in the past on the forums... but from time to time the mention of the use of H202 supplement in the res crops up.
H202 helps controls pathogens in the res tank as well as sterilization of equipment of which may well be worth looking into !
- Thread starter
- #9
o MR BUD o
New Member
thanks fuzzy for the heads up on the h202 supplement, i too have seen h202 crop up in forums from time to time but i dont fully understand or know to much about it at the moment but i definitely will be looking into it to try and understand just how its used and how it works!!! thanks for all your help dude
- Thread starter
- #10
o MR BUD o
New Member
also would house and gardens root excelurator have the same effect as h202 by clearing up and controlling a pathogen infestation in roots that are already infected with pathogens!!!!
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
I like to read up on different aspects of growing once in awhile & i oftened ponder the use of H202 myself... some times alot of info is left on the slim side of things, kind of keeps people guessing ?
But i recently found this article which is a Copy & Paste job which may help a little
(not over sure about the use of H202 with soil/compost yet but may well require further research)
Hydrogen Peroxide and Horticulture
Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen, however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for both hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.
1. What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pretreating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.
2.Over Watering
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.
In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution, this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinge. If they are a brownish colour with dead tips or they easily pull away there is at least the beginnings of a serious problem. An organic dirtlike rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscius circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.
3. How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/overwatering.
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse through out the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.
4. How to use it.
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.
Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.
5. Where to get it.
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities
Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web at www.hydromall.com. Direct order off the web (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). H2O2 is used to bleach hair so the local hairdresser may have a source. The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water.
3%5%, 8%
Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.
6. What to do if you already have root rot.
In Dirt:
Use peroxided water with anti-fungicide (benomyl) and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Root booster (5-15-5) or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in regrowing roots and is strongly recommended. If a plant is wilty adding Nutri-Boost may save it. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry.
In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Root booster will speed recovery. If plants are wilty Nutri-Boost may help save them. Increase aeration of the water, get an airpump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any wilty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy.
Summary
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.
But i recently found this article which is a Copy & Paste job which may help a little
(not over sure about the use of H202 with soil/compost yet but may well require further research)
Hydrogen Peroxide and Horticulture
Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen, however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for both hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.
1. What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pretreating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.
2.Over Watering
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water, if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.
In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution, this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinge. If they are a brownish colour with dead tips or they easily pull away there is at least the beginnings of a serious problem. An organic dirtlike rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscius circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.
3. How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/overwatering.
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse through out the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.
4. How to use it.
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.
Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.
5. Where to get it.
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities
Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web at www.hydromall.com. Direct order off the web (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). H2O2 is used to bleach hair so the local hairdresser may have a source. The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water.
3%5%, 8%
Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.
6. What to do if you already have root rot.
In Dirt:
Use peroxided water with anti-fungicide (benomyl) and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Root booster (5-15-5) or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in regrowing roots and is strongly recommended. If a plant is wilty adding Nutri-Boost may save it. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry.
In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Root booster will speed recovery. If plants are wilty Nutri-Boost may help save them. Increase aeration of the water, get an airpump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any wilty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy.
Summary
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.
- Thread starter
- #12
o MR BUD o
New Member
hey fuzzy duck your the man dude, that is some pretty impressive shit mister and i apreciate you taking the time out to explain about what h202 is and what it does, you sure as hell know your shit and i will be adding to your reputation!!! thanks fuzzy
Fuzzy Duck
Well-Known Member
Oh its really not my own work... just a copy & paste job from another site.
It all occured from reading anothers reply in your thread which triggered the thought of H202 which inspired a tad bit of research...
To be total honest it was about time i reviewed its use as in the near future i'm gonna have a dabble with hydro myself, so ye i've learnt something from your own problem & sharing of information, thats pretty good in my books
It all occured from reading anothers reply in your thread which triggered the thought of H202 which inspired a tad bit of research...
To be total honest it was about time i reviewed its use as in the near future i'm gonna have a dabble with hydro myself, so ye i've learnt something from your own problem & sharing of information, thats pretty good in my books
- Thread starter
- #14
o MR BUD o
New Member
yes that it pretty good mister and once again thanks for your time and all your help fuzzy duck and i wish you all the best with your future grows!!
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