My first case of deficiencies

MrRudeSnowman

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I screwed up with soil on this grow... so here come the problems.

To rule out certain problems - temperatures, PH, nutes (one half dose NPK417 was given week ago) are in check. I have some experience with organic grows so i turn to since this is new to me.

Problem looks more severe in real life.

The problem:


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Newer grow looks ok to me...

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According to this table made by most respectable grower out there...

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So... Mg def, Mn Zn Fe def? All things considered looks like Mg def to me.
 
I was thinking Mag deficiency before I saw the chart. What kind of lights?
 
And how long it takes to see plants getting better if this is in fact Mg def? Since i had not nuted this plant almost at all i did CalMag this morning.
 
The right answer was potassium and magnesium. A real letdown by soil this time. Since it's two more months to go i probably start new grow and this one will end up in dumpster. That's life guys.
 
Those are totally recoverable and no need to be thrown out.

Multiple deficiencies is usually caused by pH. and adding nutes wont help and may make the soil toxic if the pH is whack enough that they immediately lockout and turn into salts. In the case of magnesium you can't really over do it so it is fine to add so long as you are adding it after you have corrected the pH.


:goodluck:
 
That's the thing man... PH in water (6,5) and soil (7 in runoff) don't show any abnormalities.

I always preach - all problems are too much nutes, wrong PH and overwintering.

My thinking is that plants are way beyond schedule but will see, they doing ok now.

Should my water be PH 6 if runoff is 7? I used new soil in a long time and "killed it" :D
 
Well I would think if you are adding 6.5 and it is coming out 7 then you were too high. 7 is recommended top but I would not like to be near that edge. I try (and fail) to ride the bottom edge of the range as the nutes perform better there. This is not one of those things where the middle is the best. The range is where it is still okay but the middle is not the best. Better to try and keep it closer to 6.2-6.3. Basically I look at it as 6.3 is more betterer and the farther away from that the worse you get and after 7 it is broken.
 
Thanks man. I suspect my plants will need some water in two days or so. I flush it again and test the runoff just be be completely sure i am not messing something up.
 
Well I would think if you are adding 6.5 and it is coming out 7 then you were too high. 7 is recommended top but I would not like to be near that edge. I try (and fail) to ride the bottom edge of the range as the nutes perform better there. This is not one of those things where the middle is the best. The range is where it is still okay but the middle is not the best. Better to try and keep it closer to 6.2-6.3. Basically I look at it as 6.3 is more betterer and the farther away from that the worse you get and after 7 it is broken.

OK so i tested and retested runoff and like 5 times and it is ph7 after 7L flush with PH6,5 water. I did a smaller flush with PH6 water after that and last drops of runoff still where 7.

So plants are doing better i think at least i don't see any progress in damage and overall look, color and vigor is better.

Anyways... every single topic covering this issue is suggesting different things so that is very confusing.
 
Hate to say this bro but people don't read up about the science and get a few decent grows under their belt and think they are an expert. It takes years to become decently knowledgeable and even longer to be an expert. Growing weed is supper simple and getting a successful grow is like falling off a log. Just because you got something doesn't mean Jack.


I will give you a simple example...

The other day (not even a week ago) some newb asked a question about what seeds they should use for a long term cloning program. Another very good member of this community gave a nice reply explaining why you want to use the best genetics possible. That makes sense right? they also explained the well known and universally understood fact tht Femd seeds and Auto Seeds are genetically inferior so don't use femed seeds for a cloning term cloning program. I jumped in just to give some support and add a few minor things but the original poster nailed it. I only really jumped in to support them specifically because lots of people are misinformed and may want to dispute the science so i was trying to help give some support there.

Some guy then immediately jumps on there and goes on about how they have been cloning femed seeds just fine and had no problems. Well I stated clearly you can clone them but will get inferior results. This person wen on to say that they grew them outdoors and got half a pound a plant. Well thanks buddy you just proved our point that you are wrong. I can get a pound a plant indoors under 1 light. Outdoors you should have 6-10 foot trees that yield many pounds a plant. So you were a complete failure. But they think they did awesome getting their 3 pounds of weed from 6 plants. They have no idea that really should have been 4 pounds a plant and getting them 24 pounds.

Now this yahoo is running around giving advice based on the fact that they can grow outdoors and get a few pounds. Again this guy almost couldn't fail any more than he has documented but now thinks he can run around giving advice.

I read on here everyday totally wrong info. you have come to a place full of pot heads.

A little advice. Cannabis is just a plant. it works like all other plants. almost none of your questions are really going to be about cannabis they are general basic plant questions. If you look up the deficiencies you think you have but don't look at cannabis sites you will see the same type of response because plants all work the same. Magnesium deficiency looks the same in other green plants.

You only need to come here to ask a question specifically related to cannabis.

I recommend picking up Ed Rosenthal's book and reading it cover to cover 3 times. You will enjoy it.

Then you will only need to ask questions about Curing or things like that which are specific to cannabis.


Oh just today in the FAQ section here someone posted pics of their plant. they commented that they thought they looked great and wanted our feedback. They looked horrible and dying. They said in there post that they were watering between 7-8 pH and then 2 sentences later said something about pHing it correctly.

I have no idea where people get their info from but if it isn't published on paper and bought from a bookstore you can not trust the source.
 
Haha me, you are talking about me! I did think i know too much. Proven wrong by mother nature :)

I totally agree on all that you said. I give some advice mostly the same what you just gave me - read around before growing, otherwise wtf...

I will read some literature again since my memory has probably faded on some subjects. Usually i create my own mix. This time i chose ready made soil but it was the wrong type and just plain stupid on my part. Now to get out of this situation is where i need some advice.

My usual mix is potting soil/moss peat/worm castings/guano. Test PH, adjust, grow. Sure i do that next time again.

If i may ask before getting down with book you suggested - what would VilliageIdiot do?


Just water with PH6 and be happy? Try flushing more with PH6 and try to get runoff to be 6,5?
 
E's book is old but it is the original bible. for a very long time that was all there was to read. Many new things have come out so some of it is dated but the way plants work has not changed. If you follow what he says you will have outstanding plants. It is the true foundation of everything. They even transcribed it onto this website I think but having a book to read is so much better and he deserves the cash.

Worm castings and Guano are great but in lower doses. Better to add them from a home brew tea than direct.

Now I don't think you have a catastrophee yet. I would just keep pHing down and get that darn thing under 7.

But if you want to this process can't really hurt if done right.

A proper flush is like 5 times the size of the pot in water. So if you have a 5 gallon pot you need 25 gallons of water. Preferably pHd or you can pH just the past 5 gallons. Put the pot in the bathtub on a pair of 2x4s or something to lift it up a bit so it all drains out easy. If you have a bad situation then I usually recommend that last 5 gallons have enzymes and a pile of microbes (beneficial bacteria). I make my own and it has saved many grows on here. I got people all over using it now. Then you wait a week to see it dry out and see where you are. Whatever you didn't get flushed the bacteria and enzymes will take care of. The bacteria will bring the soil back to life. A good tea will have all the nutes you need to. A good organic grow needs nothing added but water and a tea once in a while to keep things kicking. Many pros don't use bottled ferts at all.

So a flush with a good bacteria and enzymes gets everything back in order. Then you can play it by ear. You may have shocked the plants and they need to recover. So tread lightly until vigorus growth is seen and then start adding nutes slowly. again a good tea will have everything the plant needs.



You need 3 main components to a decent soil. (now I am not explaining a proper organic soil program that is more complicated). I might get to that later but I will start with a basic thing that will get the job done without much fuss.

You need a base soil mix that is good. I use Fox farm Froggy blend. you want something that says it has Mycos, oyster shells, Humic acid /Humis/ancient forest soil, bat guano, worm castings. Something like that with those ingredients will have everything else you need.

You need an aeration component and I prefer perlite for that.

You need an organic component...I prefer steer manure or a blend of steer manure and coco fibers.


I did lots of experiments back in the 90's on the 3 components using many different things for each and many different ratios. i prefer a 1/3 1/3 1/3 of each. But that runs Hot, especially for seed grows. Not that it is bad just newbs may freak when they see a little tip burn and deep green on the verge of too much nitrogen. So if you take the 1/3 steer manure and half that with the coco you should be able to not freak out.

A mix like that if using fresh manure and soil with fresh worm castings has all the microbes you need. You just add pH'd water. around the time you want to start bloom you can consider adding some bloom nutes to enhance that. I make a tea that has everything it needs.

Keep it basic and easy and you can spend your energy learning about all the other stuff.


This plant ran on that basic recipe and had almost no ferts added. Just some cal mag and silica and my tea. 36" x 28". Just add pH'd water and train and groom. I even did do a bunch of things wrong and it still is going to be awesome.

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Awesome stuff man! You are all over the place slamming people that some innocent pedestrians get hit too :D

Dude i am all about no fertilizers! That's how i roll. And this time i rolled into a dumpster :D

The usual problem with soil mix advice is that there is no steer manure or Fox farms products in Eastern Europe :D But it's not about using the same products, i get it.

I now understand where i went wrong for sure.

OK thanks for advice man, i keep watering with PH6 and see where it goes. I have my guano & humic tea ready to rescue :D And it is all about the bacteria in the soil. Rarely does somebody ever mentions that.

p.s. those are some killer nugs you have there :D
 
Thanks man, the problems with PH are trivial and yet crucial to plat's success.

After flush with PH6 and watering with PH6 & small doses of nutes plant has not only recovered but is thriving. Will post some pics later.


E's book is old but it is the original bible. for a very long time that was all there was to read. Many new things have come out so some of it is dated but the way plants work has not changed. If you follow what he says you will have outstanding plants. It is the true foundation of everything. They even transcribed it onto this website I think but having a book to read is so much better and he deserves the cash.

Worm castings and Guano are great but in lower doses. Better to add them from a home brew tea than direct.

Now I don't think you have a catastrophee yet. I would just keep pHing down and get that darn thing under 7.

But if you want to this process can't really hurt if done right.

A proper flush is like 5 times the size of the pot in water. So if you have a 5 gallon pot you need 25 gallons of water. Preferably pHd or you can pH just the past 5 gallons. Put the pot in the bathtub on a pair of 2x4s or something to lift it up a bit so it all drains out easy. If you have a bad situation then I usually recommend that last 5 gallons have enzymes and a pile of microbes (beneficial bacteria). I make my own and it has saved many grows on here. I got people all over using it now. Then you wait a week to see it dry out and see where you are. Whatever you didn't get flushed the bacteria and enzymes will take care of. The bacteria will bring the soil back to life. A good tea will have all the nutes you need to. A good organic grow needs nothing added but water and a tea once in a while to keep things kicking. Many pros don't use bottled ferts at all.

So a flush with a good bacteria and enzymes gets everything back in order. Then you can play it by ear. You may have shocked the plants and they need to recover. So tread lightly until vigorus growth is seen and then start adding nutes slowly. again a good tea will have everything the plant needs.



You need 3 main components to a decent soil. (now I am not explaining a proper organic soil program that is more complicated). I might get to that later but I will start with a basic thing that will get the job done without much fuss.

You need a base soil mix that is good. I use Fox farm Froggy blend. you want something that says it has Mycos, oyster shells, Humic acid /Humis/ancient forest soil, bat guano, worm castings. Something like that with those ingredients will have everything else you need.

You need an aeration component and I prefer perlite for that.

You need an organic component...I prefer steer manure or a blend of steer manure and coco fibers.


I did lots of experiments back in the 90's on the 3 components using many different things for each and many different ratios. i prefer a 1/3 1/3 1/3 of each. But that runs Hot, especially for seed grows. Not that it is bad just newbs may freak when they see a little tip burn and deep green on the verge of too much nitrogen. So if you take the 1/3 steer manure and half that with the coco you should be able to not freak out.

A mix like that if using fresh manure and soil with fresh worm castings has all the microbes you need. You just add pH'd water. around the time you want to start bloom you can consider adding some bloom nutes to enhance that. I make a tea that has everything it needs.

Keep it basic and easy and you can spend your energy learning about all the other stuff.


This plant ran on that basic recipe and had almost no ferts added. Just some cal mag and silica and my tea. 36" x 28". Just add pH'd water and train and groom. I even did do a bunch of things wrong and it still is going to be awesome.

DSCF17732.JPG




DSCF17744.JPG
 
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