sammy1976
420 Member
Hello yall hows it looking? Any suggestions?
This is a 2 month old Platinum Cake clone
This is a 2 month old Platinum Cake clone
My 1st grow
- Thread starter sammy1976
- Start date
I'd top up the pot and let it go for it, looks happy
- Thread starter
- #3
sammy1976
420 Member
Thats exactly what i was thinking top one more time and let her rip!
- Thread starter
- #4
sammy1976
420 Member
Top off the soil? Thought you meant top her one more time. Which i did last night. Which would be the last time I top her.
Welcome to 420Magazine my friend.Hello yall hows it looking? Any suggestions?
This is a 2 month old Platinum Cake clone
Beautiful lady.
Just curious do you have lots of holes in that bucket?
Stay safe
Bill284
- Thread starter
- #6
sammy1976
420 Member
Yes in the bottom should i put more in the side?
Those buckets aren’t great for roots.
They pack in there and get cut off from from the air they desperately need.
It’s only going to get worse from here on.
Holes will help.
Cloth bags and air pots are better.
The problem now is roots are already there.
Drilling holes could damage some.
So if you do be careful.
It will help though.
Stay safe
Bill284
Yes, the soil level in the pot should be within an inch of the rim; even closer if you can. Every little bit extra soil in there is more room for the root system.
Yes, in the bottom. You can put some in the sides down near the bottom if you want. Use a drill with a 1/2 inch bit if at all possible. A 1/4 inch bit will do but you have to make more holes.
I am not a big fan of using buckets for planting pots, mostly for the economic side of things. If I buy a bucket I want it to be able to hold water which it can't do with holes in it. Lot easier to get a actual gardening or landscaping pot for a touch bit less than the cost of a bucket the same size with the holes already cut.
Speaking of buckets of soil. Do you know how many gallons or liters the bucket holds? Knowing that could come in handy if you have to measure out amounts of fertilizers or individual nutrients based on the amount of soil.
Trump
Well-Known Member
Your plant looks healthy and with the last topping should yield some donkey dicks.
Read this so that the next time you do this you have a better understanding of how to set up your pot and media to be able to maximize the health of your plant. I am not the author. I got this from another site I frequent that focuses on highly skilled home growers and industry pros.
This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.
First, I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.
PERCHED WATER TABLE
What is it?
The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers' issues with watering practices, especially in soil grows.
WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION
CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.
In short, adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)
Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.
So as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel each other out is where the perched water table lies.
This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So, if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". This means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.
Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.
DIFFERENT MEDIA
Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.
The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.
By adding things like perlite or vermiculite. Vermiculite is good at absorbing water but it also improves drainage so it's helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throughout the media while increasing drainage due to its size. We can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and, in turn, the height of the perched water table.
Media like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.
Adding things like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because as I said the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So, if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.
Basically, the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.
If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.
If you feel you have over watered or your perched water table height is to high you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.
POT SIZE
I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.
I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.
You also don't want a pot that's too tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.
Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see so often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS! Why? Because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though, tap roots grow straight down so we have to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.
It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in O². If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.
Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So, again, it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weeks depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it will become much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so it's less likely to over water and why up potting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.
POT MATERIAL
Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.
This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the larger the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in, say, fabric pots. This, imo, has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for O² levels in the root zone that, I feel, are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.
It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of O² and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich O² and water. Hydro similar with slightly less O², soilless media such as coco and I would possibly include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and it's not hard to see the difference in their air holding capacity in that order along with the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expell co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.
Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.
But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.
TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY
The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.
The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs
The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.
Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.
The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.
First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will gives my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Dr. Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well, it's two-fold. Because of the cool temps the viscosity (Measurment of Flow Rate) of the sap will decrease so it's harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher. "But you just said it slows absorption!". Well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symptom many refer to as overwatering which again is lack of O². Now take a cold rootzone where the plants are slow to water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recovery is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.
So, get your pots up off the floor
WET AND DRY CYCLES
in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with O² levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media'or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of O² quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gauge watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.
This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite.
Read this so that the next time you do this you have a better understanding of how to set up your pot and media to be able to maximize the health of your plant. I am not the author. I got this from another site I frequent that focuses on highly skilled home growers and industry pros.
This will be a long read based on my personal knowledge, opinions, research and others work to consolidate information for our members. I'm not presenting my opinions as facts so take from this what you like. I will be putting it in subsection format for easy reference.
First, I want to make an important point to take into consideration before reading. The tap root will grow directly downwards to the bottom of the container before spreading out.
PERCHED WATER TABLE
What is it?
The perched water table is basically the height of the saturation zone where capillary action and gravity cancel each other out. This area will be saturated with water and will be responsible most growers' issues with watering practices, especially in soil grows.
WHAT IS CAPILLARY ACTION
CAPILLARY action is the combination of the cohesive and adhesive properties of water.
In short, adhesion is water clinging to the media (think of it like wicking or soaking up)
Cohesion is where the water clings to itself.
So as the water is wicked up (adhesion) it pulls more water with it through Cohesion and at the point gravity and these properties cancel each other out is where the perched water table lies.
This perched water table will always remain the SAME HEIGHT and will always stay saturated unless taken up by the plants or evaporates when the pot dries out. No matter the container height, depth or volume of media. So, if a tall skinny container had a perched water table of 1" then a short wide one of the same media will also have a perched water table of 1". This means the ratio of water to air in a wide pot will be higher than a tall skinny pot which will have a higher air to water ratio... keep this in mind as we get further.
Different media's have different perched water tables. A more absorbent media will have a higher perched water table than a less absorbent media... REMEMBER THIS as it makes a big difference on pot selection for your media.
DIFFERENT MEDIA
Water holding capacity is directly related to the height of the perched water table so soils with more clay or silt and less sand will have a higher perched water table than those with more sand because sand is a larger particle.
The larger the overall particles of the media the lower the perched water table and better the drainage.
By adding things like perlite or vermiculite. Vermiculite is good at absorbing water but it also improves drainage so it's helpful in keeping a more even level of moisture throughout the media while increasing drainage due to its size. We can lower the perched water table by reducing the wicking (adhesion) ability and creating more space between particles overall reducing the cohesion effect and, in turn, the height of the perched water table.
Media like peat based or coco have a much higher drainage and lower perched water table than soil and are therefore less susceptible to over watering but will require more frequent watering due to the lower water holding capacity.
Adding things like perlite or hydroton to the bottom of the pots will NOT reduce the water table but instead raise it. This is because as I said the height of the water table will not change for a given media. So, if you add things like that to the bottom you are essentially just moving the water table up.
Basically, the larger the particles IN the media the better drainage and lower the water table.
If you want to see the height of your perched water table use a clear cup with drain holes fill with media and saturate it. Wait a few hrs for drainage and then come back and look. You can see the difference in the varying media's if you want to experiment.
If you feel you have over watered or your perched water table height is to high you can simply tilt your pot on a 45 degree angle and release more water from the media as runoff. To help visualize think of it this way if you have a perched water table of 2”. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line at that height, when you tilt the pot you have less media below that line and therefore you will have less water in the pot after tilting it.
POT SIZE
I have already covered this a bit but my opinion is if you are using a media with a higher water table you will benefit from taller narrower pots and if using a media with a lower perched water table the shorter wider ones may benefit you depending on your watering practices.
I prefer the taller over wider no matter the media as I choose to water often and have a higher air holding capacity and lower water table but that can work against you if you can't water as frequently and as plants grow it can greatly increase the frequency required as the roots will be pulling the water out of that saturation zone quickly. So you may want to use taller pots for small plants and transplant into a wider one as they grow.
You also don't want a pot that's too tall and the top portion of the media is drying out to fast while the bottom is wet.
Let's use seedlings as an example take a solo cup or a large container... the water table will be the same height in either. I see so often ppl trying to water a tiny bit in circles or mist the surface and for lack of other words IT DRIVES ME NUTS! Why? Because the roots are so shallow they are not at risk of being over watered. Remember though, tap roots grow straight down so we have to be mindful as they grow depending on the gas exchange of the media that the majority of roots are not sitting in the saturated zone with poor gas exchange because this will cause lack of oxygen that we incorrectly refer to as overwatering which is actually the cause not the symptom.
It's important to fill containers to the top to give us a good amount of space above the perched water table that high in O². If you fill a solo cup halfway with soil it's likely to be sitting in the saturation zone and will not do well.
Also going to make the point that plants will be most susceptible to overwatering when the roots first hit the bottom and spread out until they fill the bottom and start moving back up out of the saturation zone. So, again, it may be more beneficial to use a taller narrow pot for the early stages of growth (2-4 weeks depending on growth) and transplant into a wider pot as you go. After the transplant almost all of the roots will be above the saturation zone and it will become much harder to over water. New roots will again work their way down into the saturation zone but you will have plenty above so it's less likely to over water and why up potting as you go I see as a benefit instead of starting in a large wide container.
POT MATERIAL
Some prefer plastic others fabric, air pots etc.
This can affect the perched water table by evaporation as the larger the exposed surface area the more evaporation that occurs from the media in, say, fabric pots. This, imo, has a few benefits.... slightly reducing the perched water table but more so the exposure for gas exchange that's happening and that's a good thing for O² levels in the root zone that, I feel, are directly related to growth rates and I'll explain why going a bit off topic for a second.
It's no coincidence that the fastest growing media's have the highest amounts of O² and gas exchange.... for eg aeroponics have unlimited to rich O² and water. Hydro similar with slightly less O², soilless media such as coco and I would possibly include peat and last soil. If you notice they are in order of growth rates and it's not hard to see the difference in their air holding capacity in that order along with the fact that larger particles also have a better gas exchange rate. This is important because the plants take in oxygen and expell co2 in the rootzone as do the microbes on top of that so good gas exchange is important for both.
Just a note... air pruning has nothing to do with the benefits of fabric pots all it does is signal the roots to grow in a different direction.
But let's get back on topic of watering and how it's affected.
TEMPERATURE AND HUMIDITY
The warmer the temps the more evaporation occurs.
The lower your humidity the more evaporation occurs
The more surface area exposed to air movement (wind) the more evaporation.
Think those don't need an explanation. But the difference in pot material coupled with these environmental factors will have an impact on your watering needs.
The temperature of the media not only affects evaporation but also directly affect the temperature of the plant and leaf temps. This has a large impact on nutrient uptake and transportation.
First let me say that this next part is opinion and I will gives my reasoning for my opinions. With the exception of hydro (leaving this part out as this post is about watering not hydro) roots like to be about the same temperature as the leaves contrary to what's talked about from many prominent growers in the industry but not all like Dr. Bruce Bugbee. IMO ideal root temps are the same as ideal leaf temps and overall plant temps especially since the root temps have a large impact on the plant and leaf temps. What are ideal temps imo and many studies show that leaf temps (NOT AIR TEMPS) of around 77f are most efficient. So how does a cool rootzone impact the plants negatively? Well, it's two-fold. Because of the cool temps the viscosity (Measurment of Flow Rate) of the sap will decrease so it's harder for the plant to move the nutrients through the plant. The other is absorption and one fact is that in a cooler rootzone the concentration of nutrients is higher. "But you just said it slows absorption!". Well it does as the nutrients build up in the roots it can absorb less and this has a direct impact negatively on the plant. It may appear to be overwatered because the plant is now struggling to take up and use oxygen. Add that to the slowed transpiration rates and you have the same symptom many refer to as overwatering which again is lack of O². Now take a cold rootzone where the plants are slow to water uptake and then add the saturation zone to it and you can see the road to correction and recovery is a long one and can have huge impact on growth and yields.
So, get your pots up off the floor
WET AND DRY CYCLES
in soil and peat with higher water tables or with wider pots or combination of wet and dry cycles are important. This is to allow the dry back (including the uptake of water from the saturation zone) to prevent symptoms of over watering and help with O² levels. Remember the majority of roots will end up in the saturation zone with these media'or with wider pots. Which can become depleted of O² quickly as gas exchange is lower in water and media made up of smaller particles. This is where pot size and shape are important for the size of plant. You have a small plant in large container and there is no way it can take up enough of the water in the saturation zone fast enough to get air exposure in a media that has low gas exchange and majority of the roots. So it's important to choose a pot size that will allow for this. It's also why using the finger method to gauge watering is poor and lifting the pots is much better... when they are light you know they have taken up a good portion of the saturation zone and are ready to be watered again.
This is much less of an issue when using soilless like coco or peat/perlite.
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