Max's First Grow - Soil - LED - Painkiller XL

Day 9 Flower - Nute Change

Here's a gratuitous picture showing day 9 of flower
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Lots of tucking and weaving has taken place but the buggers keep shooting up.

Apart from showing progress I wanted to document the nute change. Apparently Old Timer recommend using the grow formula for up to two weeks in flower. On day 9 I've decided to start using the bloom formula. Some Bud Igniter and CalMag went into the mix. Bloom was used at half strength - 2ml per litre of water. CalMag at full strength - 0.5ml per litre and Bud Igniter at a 'who knows' dose of 1ml per litre.

I've been very remiss of documenting watering and feed schedules.. when the lights were changed to 12/12 I gave the girls a good watering. It took just over half a gallon per plant to get to run off. Apart from that watering and massive over watering when they were young they've had a light watering and never to run off. Basically I've given them a little and let them dry out. They are now taking one litre every day. I start with plant one and give her 250ml, then plant two, then plant three. I then pause for a bit to tuck and study the plants before going back to plant one. The reason for this is that the soil is so dry that it doesn't get a chance to absorb water if I dump the whole litre in at once - it just runs through. Taking time over this ensures the water and nutes gently soak into the soil. At least, that's what I read.

The cool tube may arrive tomorrow but the earliest I can fit it is Thursday - I won't be home before lights off tomorrow. They had nearly an hour of HPS at 250w this evening and temps hit 87 degrees, even with the tent open for a large chunk of that time as I watered and weaved. Hopefully the cool tube will let me run safely at 400 or even 600w. Here are the watts per square foot figures at various settings based on true watts, not equivalent watts (the LED is allegedly equivalent to 400w but draws a true 173)

The SCRoG is 6.25 square feet

LED only = 28w/ft
LED and 250w HPS = 68w/ft
LED and 400w HPS = 92w/ft
LED and 600w HPS = 124w/ft

I'm not even going to show the super lumens setting of 660w because I'll never use that.

Part of me thinks the optimal setting would be 400w and that 600w would be overkill. During daylight I get enough power from my solar panels to run the lights free of charge.

Soooo - do I need to read up about light saturation? Would 124w/ft be too much?

I know this will open a can of worms, but I do think watt for watt there's more usable light from LED's - basically HPS throws out a lot of watts as heat and some as light. LED is converting far more watts into light and less into heat. Discuss ;-)

*Sits back and waits for passionate discussion about LED vs HPS*
 
I solve that by saying 9 days from flip or flip +9.

If you want to show both you can say:
Flip+32 22 days since pistils

I would always include flip numbers so people can know precisely how many short length days.

I shoot for 50 true watts/sq foot. That's about equivalent to six Marshydro 300 (140 true watts) for a 4' X 4'

Led + 250w should work wonders in your space. If you wanted to use all the free electricity I would get a bigger tent! More space=more fun. Use the smaller tent as a veg tent.
 
i normally work off 150w per ft. or 600w sq m.

i always document flower period from 12/12 as that gives a basic guide everyone can follow. The more advanced at growing you get then you will adapt to changes during the grow without following a set week plan. instead doing it by eye to what the plant needs.

So in theory LED has more usable light for sure. But not all panels are created equaly. over the past few years ive watched as the market exploded with LED and most of them are shit. Most will veg well but flowering varies alot. The higher priced panels match hps for numbers and quality is slightly better. But if you are a capable grower you are splitting hairs really. the cheaper panels that ive seen dont match hps and are misleading in their marketing. exaggerated numbers promising higher yields for less. In my opinion HPS well out performs low to mud priced panels at this moment in time. If you are like me and grow large scale LED dont make sense at all. At well over £1000 per panel for anything worth buying its just not cost effective to run multiple panel room. for a 5 x 5 metre room you would need minimum 6 large panels. lets say £1500 per panel so that would be £9000 just for light beforre any extraction. you could build 3 rooms using 50 600w hps for that....... No comparison.

So yes Quality LED do have more usable light but until the price comes down considerably they arent worth the money. Just to clarify i had interests in an LED company, my business partner is now 100% owner after i walked away from throwing thousands and thousands into it developing and testing with a well branded hydro company. LED are the future no doubt but id advise people to sit back and wait until the price of the technology makes it cost effective.
 
ShiggityFlip said:
I solve that by saying 9 days from flip or flip +9.

If you want to show both you can say:
Flip+32 22 days since pistils

I would always include flip numbers so people can know precisely how many short length days.

I shoot for 50 true watts/sq foot. That's about equivalent to six Marshydro 300 (140 true watts) for a 4' X 4'

Led + 250w should work wonders in your space. If you wanted to use all the free electricity I would get a bigger tent! More space=more fun. Use the smaller tent as a veg tent.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification Shig.

I'll skip on the big tent idea though. It's illegal here so I wouldn't want to risk a stiffer penalty if caught with a forest :-)
 
Cultivator said:
i normally work off 150w per ft. or 600w sq m.

i always document flower period from 12/12 as that gives a basic guide everyone can follow. The more advanced at growing you get then you will adapt to changes during the grow without following a set week plan. instead doing it by eye to what the plant needs.

So in theory LED has more usable light for sure. But not all panels are created equaly. over the past few years ive watched as the market exploded with LED and most of them are shit. Most will veg well but flowering varies alot. The higher priced panels match hps for numbers and quality is slightly better. But if you are a capable grower you are splitting hairs really. the cheaper panels that ive seen dont match hps and are misleading in their marketing. exaggerated numbers promising higher yields for less. In my opinion HPS well out performs low to mud priced panels at this moment in time. If you are like me and grow large scale LED dont make sense at all. At well over £1000 per panel for anything worth buying its just not cost effective to run multiple panel room. for a 5 x 5 metre room you would need minimum 6 large panels. lets say £1500 per panel so that would be £9000 just for light beforre any extraction. you could build 3 rooms using 50 600w hps for that....... No comparison.

So yes Quality LED do have more usable light but until the price comes down considerably they arent worth the money. Just to clarify i had interests in an LED company, my business partner is now 100% owner after i walked away from throwing thousands and thousands into it developing and testing with a well branded hydro company. LED are the future no doubt but id advise people to sit back and wait until the price of the technology makes it cost effective.
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I'm glad I started off with LED in veg. The results have been excellent, although my only basis for comparison has been pictures of other plants of the same age on Google. The faff of setting up with HPS has been fun but it may have been overwhelming when I first started out.

Now I have the best of both worlds and I'll be able to use the HPS at a higher setting. More on this in today's journal update
 
Day 11 Flower/Flip - Cool Tube Installed

From the last thrilling instalment from Headroom Towers, readers will recall the drama of high temperatures when running a 250w HPS alongside a Mars II 400 LED. Yesterday salvation in the form of a cool tube arrived
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This evening it was installed along with 5" ducting and a separate in line fan
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Despite only getting an hour a day of HPS alongside the LED, the girls are doing better than expected
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I've only had an hour to test the efficiency of the cool tube at 250w, but temps didn't go much over 82 degrees. This is so promising that they will have a full day with both light sources tomorrow. Again at 250w. I want to be here when cranking it up to 400w and then 600w. This weekend will be split between playing with lights and shopping for a new car.

Hopefully by the end of Sunday I'll have a car and be running the HPS at 600w. I'm not sure which excites me the most :-)

I have some ruminations around SCRoG that I'd like to share but I have things to do and not enough time to put my thoughts into an easily assimilated form. Rather than fry your brains with an incoherent brain dump, I shall bid you adieu.
 
Nice addition to the grow room Max. If you can find insulated ducting it will work even better!
 
cool tube will def help. id have gone 6inch duct though for 600w. but that will help u for sure.
 
ShiggityFlip said:
Nice addition to the grow room Max. If you can find insulated ducting it will work even better!
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Yes using insulated flex duct really helps displace the heat, but if you want to displace both heat and increase CFM(cubic feet per minute) use the hard pipe with the insulated sleeves.
 
fopho said:
Yes using insulated flex duct really helps displace the heat, but if you want to displace both heat and increase CFM(cubic feet per minute) use the hard pipe with the insulated sleeves.
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Great advice. I think normal ducting on the inlet and acoustic on the outlet would help even more. The inlet pipe is cold, the outlet pipe is warm. I'm still playing with temps at the moment.. more on this in my journal update.
 
Penultimate Day With Bug Igniter - Or Is It?

Here are the girls on day 13 of flip
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Here's another view
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I'd appreciate a bit of advice on the Bud Igniter here please... they girls have been on a 12/12 light cycle for 13 days now. Bud Igniter has been added to every watering at the rate of 1ml per litre.

a. I'm not even sure that's the right amount
b. It's recommended to use BI for the first two weeks of flower

Does anyone know if that's the first two weeks of changing the light cycle to 12/12 or is it two weeks of actual flowering?

Whilst you ponder that, here's a little entry about nutes and whatnot.. I've upped the Old Timer Bloom to 2ml per litre of water, which is still pretty low. Eventually they will be on the recommended dose of 4ml per litre. It's time to fess up and mention why I've been so light on nutes; I have no way to flush these plants in the SCRoG net. Even if I'm being a touch light handed on feeding, they are loving it. Growth has been explosive! Extra light probably plays a large part in this..

The digital ballast has been cranked up to 600w and the plants directly under that have grown massively. To be fair it is over the largest and most vigorous of the two Painkiller XL's. Later today when son & heir comes to visit, we will swap the lights to put the HPS at the back and the LED at the front. Part of the reason is to better deal with air circulation. I'll explain more via the medium of pictures when the job is complete, but a synopsis is that the cold intake air and the fan are at the back blowing more over the plants under LED, whilst the ones at the front get second hand air even though they are under the hottest light.

Temps are up to 84 degrees so a little more fidgeting is required. I'm starting to worry they will hermie because temps have dropped to 65 at night and have hit 90 during the day. The swings are less wild now, but even so a 25 degree swing could upset the girls. The highest ever recorded temp was 101 degrees before I got the cool tube, but I was keeping an eye on things and it was no longer than 15 minutes.

I find my days off work are consumed with poking my head in the tent and adjusting things; re-routing the duct, wetting the towel, checking temps and RH, tucking in the net... it's a lovely obsession and great fun. Does the thrill ever wear off?

I don't want to jinx things but I'm going to revise the expectations I set in week 2 - 3 of veg; I originally said I'd be happy with 1oz per plant. I'd still be happy with that, but I'd be surprised if it was less than 2oz per plant. Damn! I've said it now! Oh well. Fingers crossed.

Oh, look at the time! I've not been in the tent for a whole 90 minutes. Must dash.
 
Very nice Max. Got that screen filled! I think you should easily surpass the 2oz mark.. Ya still got all of 8 weeks or more before they reach full maturity. And with that kind of light Id be surprised to see any colas under 6''. :lot-o-toke:
 
STIHL LOGGER said:
Very nice Max. Got that screen filled! I think you should easily surpass the 2oz mark.. Ya still got all of 8 weeks or more before they reach full maturity. And with that kind of light Id be surprised to see any colas under 6''. :lot-o-toke:
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Thanks for the comments Stihl, I'd be over the moon if I hit that. These girls are growing a couple of inches per day. Temps are still stuck at 84 degrees, but I've just swapped the HPS and LED round. The idea now is that cold air is fed to the clip on fan, blown under the HPS and then the warmed air rises up and out of the filter. It makes sense in theory, let's see if it pans out in practice :-)

I keep toying with the idea of a second enclosure to house a couple of clones before it's too late to snip some off, but I don't think it's worth it on my first run. I got 15 seeds and can't grow more than 3 at a time, so I've got a while before I run out. I've not had a toke for over 5 years so I'm very much looking forward to some medicinal herbs.

Thanks again for dropping by, your space ship has inspired me as I have to make my own enclosure in a different room. At the moment this grow is taking up the guest bedroom that has no lock on the door. Ultimately I want to grow in my home office, which does have a lock on it.

Regards
 
MaxHeadroom said:
I find my days off work are consumed with poking my head in the tent and adjusting things; re-routing the duct, wetting the towel, checking temps and RH, tucking in the net... it's a lovely obsession and great fun. Does the thrill ever wear off?

I don't want to jinx things but I'm going to revise the expectations I set in week 2 - 3 of veg; I originally said I'd be happy with 1oz per plant. I'd still be happy with that, but I'd be surprised if it was less than 2oz per plant. Damn! I've said it now! Oh well. Fingers crossed.

Oh, look at the time! I've not been in the tent for a whole 90 minutes. Must dash.
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Dammit Max, now I've just realized it's been more than 90 minutes since I last visited my girls. Back in a minute or 5.

Assuming a reasonably stable continuation, I'd be surprised if you didn't get more than 3oz off them. We'll find out sooner than it feels like right now. :)


VladimirPutin said:
Fun Times

I'll be joining this party, I'm right over there spiking the punch bowl with Vodka.

Vlad:bongrip:
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Stoli I hope. I'll stand watch for a quick swig...
 
arteekay said:
Dammit max, now I've just realized it's been more than 90 minutes since I last visited my girls. Back in a minute or 5.

Assuming a reasonably stable continuation, I'd be surprised if you didn't get more than 3oz off them. We'll find out sooner than it feels like right now. :)


Stoli I hope. I'll stand watch for a quick swig...
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Growing is far more addictive than the actual imbibing of the end product!

I daren't set the bar as high as 3oz per plant but I'm kind of excited that it's a possibility. In my latest perve at the girls I noticed a stack of pistils that weren't there earlier. I'll do my weekly update tomorrow and if what I've read is true, they should be very noticeable by then. If so then pictures with my new macro lens will follow. I counted 36 heads with pistils!

Quick question on SWICK... I'm seriously considering it in a yet-to-be-built cabinet and I notice you used it on Brittney; are you happy with the outcome or will you abandon it on the next grow?

Wonderingly
 
MaxHeadroom said:
Growing is far more addictive than the actual imbibing of the end product!
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Agreed, but I still reeeeaallly enjoy the imbibing part too. :)


MaxHeadroom said:
Quick question on SWICK... I'm seriously considering it in a yet-to-be-built cabinet and I notice you used it on Brittney; are you happy with the outcome or will you abandon it on the next grow?

Wonderingly
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I feel it's a great solution to a short term problem, most likely a short vacation away from them where it's too long for them to go without water, or like in our case where her pot was too small to get her through 24 hours late in flower. I threw mine together too fast and without the care it deserved, and discarded it a week or so later.

For our second grow we used much bigger pots, so that shouldn't be a problem again, and there will always be at least one of us here anyways for the pets so the vacation thing isn't an issue either.

For me, I need to take them out and admire them every day anyway, so I'm not that interested yet in them watering themselves. But I'll be following along to see what you end up doing for your setup.
 
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