Mars II 400w LED From TopLED

[Chlorobyte]

Hi there, new to the forums though have been "lurking" for months. I've got a quick question for anyone with some LED experience.

I'm planning to order the Mars II 400w from topLED to use in my grow space, however, the light comes in three spectrums which all specify different light focus. The three varieties on the site are standard, Flowering, ( which lists red, but no blue)and veg ( blue, but no red).
Im wondering if the flowering unit is actually missing blue lights all together, in which case I would purchase the standard as it more suits my needs.

Has anyone used these different units, or have more of a clue than myself? I looked through BID's thread and could not find the specific spectrum type of the unit, although I assume its standard. I also attempted to PM the topLED rep Sara, but was unable due to post count, so further help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

 

[yuyo]

i do not know about led lights, sorry i am no help
i at least give your post a bump maybe someone with knowledge will notice
being a newb i'm guessing the flower machine has all red
i hope to someday get a good full spectrum led they seem to be the light of the future
good luck and take care

 

[slogro]

I would like to know that answer also.

 

[a39raven]

I have experimented with several LED lights. Unless you get at least a 400Watt, your waisting your time. I think Mars is overpriced. There are several good multi-spetrum lamps available(all made in China) Try EBay to look. They sell a wide range of grow LED's, and have the specific stat-numbers for their lamps. Most are all inclusive --- Vegetative, thru flowering.

 

[Telkwa]

Unless you get at least a 400Watt, your waisting your time.

I'm a newbie here but I have to say that the above statement is nonsensical. Take a peek at the Micro-Grow folks, who are growing inside computer cases with 3 or 4 CFL's. There are plenty of successful closet grow journals with less than 400W LED.

Is this the one you're referring to? I don't see a choice for spectrums. In the specs it mentions four wavelengths, IR, and white. I don't know if that would be considered a 6 band light (?) Here's the text from the webpage:

Spectrum: 430~440nm, 450~475nm 620~630nm, 650~660nm, IR, and white

Also please note that topLED lists their Mars lights by "theoretical" wattage. The panel is theoretically capable of 400W but the LED's would be pushed hard and lifespan would be shortened. According to the fine print the Mars 400 actually draws 170 to 200W.

Have you looked at topLED's reflector series? The ones with the switch so that you can run it in veg or flower?

 

[a39raven]

Mars are still overpriced in my opinion. Why do you compare a closet grower's lighting needs with a grower that deals in a lot more plants.
The lighting requirements are generally proportional to the number of plants and size of the grow area, so yes, you can be successful at growing in a confined space, needing only minimal lighting. I just didn't like the expense nor heat signature from HP Sodium bulbs. I have played with LED's and commercial CFL's with mogul bases and 10 loops. I feel that the LED's have only a slight edge over CFL's. The fact that they incorporate several more wavelengths than CFL's which come in a vegetative 6400K and a 2700K for flowering mode, perhaps that is the reason. PS: Have you looked at the PRICE of the reflector series? To me it kind of says it all.

 

[Hosebomber]

a39raven, welcome to the forums. I know you have seen this in your vast experience, but for those that are newer to the LED industry, please fill them in on what you think is so over priced. From my experience, which I'm sure is vastly inferior to your, under $1 per watt is a pretty good price for any LED panel.

 

[Telkwa]

a39 -
Your statement that anything less than 400W is a waste of time may be a valid conclusion for you, based on your situation.

But for a newbie who's just looking for a helping hand, it's not very helpful. That's all I'm saying. Besides, the OP never said he wasn't a closet grower.

You feel the topLED's are too expensive. They're pretty darn cheap compared to Apache Tech, Area 51, etc. Apache's stuff is about 10X more expensive if you simply compare $/watts but I have a feeling there's a lot more to it.

To the OP: have you read thru Icemud's topLED journal? He bought a Mars and a Reflector so you might find some useful info.

 

[Boscoe]

I was under the impression that the Mars II 400w was the same unit as a Blackdog BD240-U just without the Blackdog logo on it? I've seen cheaper panels, but they tend to be 1watt diodes. The Mars is 5w.

I'm contemplating investing in a Mars II 700w (340 actual) and $300 isn't a bad price at all, in my opinion.

 

[a39raven]

The more wattage, the better, if you are a serious grower. There are so many variables in a grow scenario, lighting is only one of them. I grew up on High Pressure Sodium lights. The heat generated(requiring good ventilation) with it's signature, and astronomical electric bills,was enough for me to seek other lighting sources. I've seen grows done under incandescent lighting too. Fortunately most grow boxes that I have seen, use a nice mylar mirrored liner, which is essential if you are growing under a reduced wattage. I use these mylar panels in my grow because they increase the efficiency of your lighting. I grow for a living, strictly all organic, and have helped a lot of personal-use growers along the way. It's fun and rewarding at the same time. I still get excited when it's flowering time, watching those buds grow. Anyway, I still use commercial CFL's on some of my grow, but feel LED's have the edge.

 

[Telkwa]

Boscoe -
I'm flipping back and forth between the Mars II 400 and the Reflector 96 X 3.

Trying to figure out the differences.

The - um - "actual" output in terms of wattage is the same. "170 - 200W"

It appears the single biggest difference is the Mars uses 5W LED's while the Reflector series uses 3W. Is that good or bad? I dunno. In the last few weeks I've read that 5W is the wave of the future and 3W is obsolete. I've also read that 3W is more efficient at converting electricity to useful light.

If you compare the specs the spectra are identical.

Spectrum: 430~440nm, 450~475nm 620~630nm, 650~660nm, IR, and white

I would assume that the output within each spectra (in other words, the proportion of total output that falls within each of these bandwidths) is not identical but can't say for sure.

If you're sure that the 5W LED's are superior, then the Mars seems like the right choice. If you're not sure about that, then it makes sense to me to get the Reflector because it has the veg/flower switches.

Since you mentioned the Mars II 700W, it might be more useful to compare that to the 192X3.

The above is just my 2 cents worth. I don't have any hands-on experience. Trying to help others make sense of all this is helping my own understanding.

 

[Boscoe]

Boscoe -
I'm flipping back and forth between the Mars II 400 and the Reflector 96 X 3.

If you're sure that the 5W LED's are superior, then the Mars seems like the right choice. If you're not sure about that, then it makes sense to me to get the Reflector because it has the veg/flower switches.

Well that's the thing... technically it should be a no-brainer that 5w diodes are more powerful, but the results of this multi-head to head PAR/wavelength comparison that Grower's House did, the Kind LED unit (3w) mopped the floor with the Blackdog (5w) so I don't know what to think:

300-400W Alternative Lighting Review & Comparison Test with LED, Ceramic MH, and HPS / Growers House Hydroponics Blog

All I know is that I've seen some pretty impressive grow reports with the Blackdog, so I know that it can grow buds. The California Lightworks units also clearly can grow buds (but they build their own units, so there aren't any manufacturer generics available). There's so much confusion and marketing BS out there, that all I can really have faith in is seeing people's results.

But I agree with you that the veg/bloom toggle is a neat feature. Unfortunately for me, I'm going to be growing in a homebrew SUperCloset and won't have the luxury of the amount of room those higher wattage Reflector models require. If you look at them, all they're doing is taking the smallest panel and sticking several of them together making the unit longer and longer lengthwise as you go up in total wattage. The Mars units actually pack more LEDs into the same sized housing to create the higher wattage units, which is perfect for my space.

Plus, in that small of a space, I'm not going to be vegging for more than a week or two so the T5 side-lighting I'm putting in can handle that and I'll just get the Bloom version of the light. (I can't find any mention of veg/bloom variants of the Mars unit, BTW where did you see that?)

 

[Telkwa]

(I can't find any mention of veg/bloom variants of the Mars unit, BTW where did you see that?)

I can't either. If you go back to the first post in this thread, the OP stated that there were options to buy different versions of the Mars. But I didn't see that on the topLED website.

 

[Hosebomber]

The major difference between 3 and 5 watt LEDs in grow lights is the penetration depth. Your style of growing depends on what works best in your situation. If you are doing a sea of green or screen of green then a 1 watt will work. If you plants are going to be over 18 inches in height and not under a screen you need at least 3 watt LEDs. If they are going to be over 36 inches you need 5 watt LEDs. You also have to look at the lenses or reflectors that those diodes are using. A secondary lens on a 3 watt can make it much more intense than a 5 watt at the cost of a little coverage area.

Those are rough numbers and everyone's situation is different but that's a pretty good guideline. I've said it for years that Blackdog is a poor light. They use cheap diodes and under drive them (or at least they used to... I haven't looked at one internally for a while).

 

[Boscoe]

A secondary lens on a 3 watt can make it much more intense than a 5 watt at the cost of a little coverage area.

That makes sense. The comparison test I linked to showed an interesting trend where the Black Dogs were concerned: at the 3-foot perimiter and beyond, the Black Dog suddenly takes the lead over the Kind LED by a longshot! So it would make sense that if the 3w Kind LEDs are using secondary lenses, they could beat out underpowered 5w diodes, but only in a tighter perimeter.

Your theory is further reinforced by the fact that the people running the comparison noted that Black Dog recommends using their lights at 18" above the canopy whereas all the others were designed for 24". Since they tested them ALL at 24", they noted that the Black Dog may have been at a disadvantage.

Thanks for the info, Hosebomber! I may still go with the Mars II just because the size of the unit is perfect for my needs and the price is acceptable, but I'll continue researching for awhile. I'm going to go search your posts now, I'm sure there's tons of good learnin' to be had.

 

[Blind]

I can't either. If you go back to the first post in this thread, the OP stated that there were options to buy different versions of the Mars. But I didn't see that on the topLED website.

If you want one of the spectrum other then standard the option will be back in a couple weeks. The standard spectrum are kept in stock in the warehouses but if you order flower or veg it has to be made in the factory for you. They are on vacation for the Chinese new year so have removed the option at the moment.

 

[wjason777]

If you want one of the spectrum other then standard the option will be back in a couple weeks. The standard spectrum are kept in stock in the warehouses but if you order flower or veg it has to be made in the factory for you. They are on vacation for the Chinese new year so have removed the option at the moment.

I thought that the full spectrum is both the flower and veg put together ?

Anyone know of way to customize the Mars 1200w so that it has the same spectrums of the kind led?

 

[Hosebomber]

If you know their ratio or layout you can contact SmokeSara here on the forums and she can make that happen.

 

[wjason777]

Lol, I'm i missing something ? Just thought that since they are the only company that has 15 spectrums that they was the best. From every video I saw they looked like they did a good job. But I could be wrong.
It's just the price, can't seem to bring myself to pay $1200 for a grow light.

 

[David Bowman]

It's just the price, can't seem to bring myself to pay $1200 for a grow light.

You and me both wjason!!